Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 202 - AVS Forum
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post #6031 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 08:47 PM
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Finally got my 65ZT60 mounted and now getting around to watching some actual content after running D-Nice's slides for about 175 hours straight as I will be getting the same pro calibrator who calibrated my old 54V10 to calibrate this new unit.

So far, my unit is not exhibiting the Hulk (green hue) phenomena that has been mentioned in this thread. During the break-in period, my set did have the buzzing when displaying bright white slides but in normal use, you can't hear the buzzing all. Also, fan noise was non-existent. FYI, mine is a December build.

And it did pass the WAF (Wife Approval Factor)...not only did she appreciate the screen size but she definitely noticed the deeper blacks and the added benefit of the improved AR filter (without me prompting her). Very pleased.

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post #6032 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 10:25 PM
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Based on when I will have someone available to help me move my 65ZT60 into my primary viewing room, I can let the slides run for either around 70 hours or 190+ hours before I actually start watching actual content. Would I be better off in the long run by letter it run longer? I think it would be hard for me to avoid any channel logos if I moved it after 70 hours. Is it actually OK to leave the TV on for over a week straight while running slides?
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post #6033 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 10:32 PM
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Happy New Year folks!

I may be "butt wrong" but I sure wouldn't let my kids game on this set. A cheap LCD from Walmart works for that stuff. We all know the potential for IR. Why roll the dice?

I can't believe how well this set handles reflections. And I have to say its nice to have a small light on in the room so my friends don't trip over furniture in the dark.

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post #6034 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Playdrv4me View Post

Honestly brightness-wise I did not notice a difference, but my room has two big windows with blinds on them. So while plenty of light comes in that room, it's tempered by the blinds. What the ZT does do very well with is really low reflectivity by the combination of bonded panel AND the better AR coating.

Hey, thanks. Good to know that it was not oblivious. Supposedly, as noted, it is around 5fl or so. Just don't have a reference and not sure just what to expect. Only reference is my photography background were one e F-stop is doubling the light. And most cameras only control to usually 1/3 f-stop or even 1/2, so seems like 5fl might be only observable side-by-side.


5fl on 2D would not be even close to doubling the light. Perhaps with 3D it might be more noticeable, since picture is so dim already and 5fl would be a larger percentage. But that is just speculation on my part.

Thanks again for taking the time to post comment!
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post #6035 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windomearle View Post

Based on when I will have someone available to help me move my 65ZT60 into my primary viewing room, I can let the slides run for either around 70 hours or 190+ hours before I actually start watching actual content. Would I be better off in the long run by letter it run longer? I think it would be hard for me to avoid any channel logos if I moved it after 70 hours. Is it actually OK to leave the TV on for over a week straight while running slides?

I left mine running with the slides for 175 hours straight before moving it to my primary viewing room. Not only will it go through the break-in process but it is a good stress test to see if anything fails. Be sure to follow the break-in procedure to be safe.



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post #6036 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 10:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chillspace View Post

So far, my unit is not exhibiting the Hulk (green hue) phenomena that has been mentioned in this thread. During the break-in period, my set did have the buzzing when displaying bright white slides but in normal use, you can't hear the buzzing all. Also, fan noise was non-existent. FYI, mine is a December build.
THX Bright Room is the only mode in which the "Hulk phenomen" manifests on my ZT60...have you tried that one?
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post #6037 of 12817 Old 01-03-2014, 11:02 PM
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I don't think I'll have to use that mode because my room has controllable lighting. Whew!

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post #6038 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Borg1of2 View Post

Bought one of the last few 65ZT60 from Amazon today, they are now sold out. Delivery is set for Jan14, so I have a lot of reading to do. I wasn't planning on getting a ZT, but time went by and the ST got grabbed up, and are now at or near ZT price, so why not go big.

Any advice or thoughts on accessories would be appreciated.

Scott

Just noticed that Amazon is now offering the 65ZT fulfilled via Paul's. Congrats.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntculenuf View Post


I purchased mine on December 25th, delivered December 31st. October Build

Quote:
Originally Posted by ntculenuf View Post

Yup yup, mine was shipped from the phoenix warehouse as well.

Very cool that your build dates are so recent. I purchased mine at a BB in Knoxville, TN where they amazingly had one in stock in the city. Judging by my build date, it would appear there was a muted response to the "Studio Master Panel" in East Tennessee...
Looking at availability at BB in my area, it does not appear there are many left in the system. Between here and Atlanta they are not showing any in stock. No doubt there are floor models around. Guessing that will be the best/only way to get a silly deal on a ZT. Most grateful that I have attended way too many hippy bands of the years so that fan noise is inaudible.

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post #6039 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 05:26 AM
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To avoid "IR"every hour refresh the Screen with diffferent source content or run the Pixel Wiper for five minutes then continue playing game,any kind of static image or logo even numeric number on the Screen is risky business for 2012/2013 Plasma..................

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post #6040 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PINKTULIPS7 View Post

To avoid "IR"every hour refresh the Screen with diffferent source content or run the Pixel Wiper for five minutes then continue playing game,any kind of static image or logo even numeric number on the Screen is risky business for 2102/2013 Plasma..................

I was wondering about that, has anyone used this method? If I go that route does it eliminate the need to run slides / logo-free full screen content for 200 hours?

Thanks!
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post #6041 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 07:53 AM
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Lol guys are actually going to stop content for 5 minutes every hour? "Hey babe, let me run this wipe for 5 minutes real quick then we can continue watching this letterboxed movie"

Also, how do you know year 2102 plasmas have IR problems? I thought they quit making plasmas this year?
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post #6042 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 09:49 AM
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Married / long term relationship guys will / bachelor guys won't let it get in the way of getting into some girl's pants wink.gif
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post #6043 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PINKTULIPS7 View Post

To avoid "IR"every hour refresh the Screen with diffferent source content or run the Pixel Wiper for five minutes then continue playing game,any kind of static image or logo even numeric number on the Screen is risky business for 2102/2013 Plasma..................

Nonsense.
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post #6044 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windomearle View Post

Wow, sounds like I shouldn't let my kids play video games on our new ZT60? I thought burn in was pretty much gone in models introduced in the past few years, but it sounds like it is still present in these Panasonics. Owning an LCD was never so stressful! I probably could have gotten a great LCD for less than what I paid for the ZT60. This TV may put me over the edge if I'm constantly looking for IR or worrying about how long my kids are playing a particular video game.

Sorry If my posts regarding IR have been a "Debbie Downer". The IR problem is real though and it is totally up to you whether or not you take issue with it and worry about it. Your usage patters will dictate how it manifests itself. If you let your kids game on it and then watch full screen logo free content on it for awhile afterwards, you might be able keep it at bay to where it is not that noticeable. The same applies to any TV program that has overly bright/white logos or tickers, its not just gamming. If you happen to have OCD tendencies ( I'll admit I do ) and choose to look for it, you will most likely find it at some point.

For something positive, these TV's do put out the best picture I have ever seen. IMHO , these best the Kuro's in picture quality simply for having a cleaner or less noisy image alone. They're not perfect of course ( no TV is). There is a bit of line bleeding, bright screen buzz, fan noise, and DSE. All of these listed problems are minor though and to me do not warrant taking issue with. Although I did get the Fan Fix applied and that pretty much took care of that problem. I could've lived without the fix though.


Regarding the LCD's, I don't think you could have gotten an LCD of this caliber for cheaper. At the time I bought my 65VT60 the only LCD's that were in contention for me were the HX929 an the Sharp Elite. At the time both of those were more expensive. The 60inch Sharp Elite is what I wanted to go with, but it was over a 1000 more than what I paid for my VT60 and 5 inches smaller. Magnolia would not budge on the pricing of the Elite at the time.
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post #6045 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PINKTULIPS7 View Post

To avoid "IR"every hour refresh the Screen with diffferent source content or run the Pixel Wiper for five minutes then continue playing game,any kind of static image or logo even numeric number on the Screen is risky business for 2102/2013 Plasma..................

Where in the world do you guys get these brilliant ideas? rolleyes.gif

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post #6046 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Paw View Post

Happy New Year folks!

I may be "butt wrong" but I sure wouldn't let my kids game on this set. A cheap LCD from Walmart works for that stuff. We all know the potential for IR. Why roll the dice?

...

Mike

IR remains a mystery to me. I don't understand what causes it (in terms of pixel physics), and I don't understand why some panels seem to be very prone to IR while others are resistant. But I think that the tendency to get IR probably falls along a curve. The big question is, "What is the shape of that curve?" Is it a typical bell curve with some panels very IR prone, some very resistant, and the bulk in the middle? Or is it a declining curve where most panels are IR resistant and only a few are IR prone - or the opposite where most are IR prone and only a few are resistant? Only a panel engineer would be able to tell us for sure.

When asked at the VE Shootout which panel was more IR resistant, the calibrators said the Panasonics were more IR resistant than the Samsung this year, whereas in 2012 it was the reverse. That seems not to be the case from the reports here.
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post #6047 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:33 AM
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To the above poster talking about getting an LCD, I bought a brand new Sharp LC70LE857U for $1,800. For those unfamiliar with the model, it's the highest end non-4k LCD Sharp makes and retails for about $3,500. Needless to say I got an absolute STEAL of a deal on a top of the line TV.

A few weeks later it now lives back at Microcenter and I spent twice the money on a ZT60 (to be delivered Tuesday).

LCD picture quality, especially motion, cannot hold a candle to plasma in my experience. I thought about getting a 4K (I have a really bright room) but still saw some of the same motion issues that gave me a headache and drove me nuts on the 857. Not everyone is as observant / anal as I am, but if you're on this board chances are you very likely aren't one of those people. My advice: panasonic plasma while you can.
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post #6048 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larrygeary View Post

IR remains a mystery to me. I don't understand what causes it (in terms of pixel physics), and I don't understand why some panels seem to be very prone to IR while others are resistant. But I think that the tendency to get IR probably falls along a curve. The big question is, "What is the shape of that curve?" Is it a typical bell curve with some panels very IR prone, some very resistant, and the bulk in the middle? Or is it a declining curve where most panels are IR resistant and only a few are IR prone - or the opposite where most are IR prone and only a few are resistant? Only a panel engineer would be able to tell us for sure.

When asked at the VE Shootout which panel was more IR resistant, the calibrators said the Panasonics were more IR resistant than the Samsung this year, whereas in 2012 it was the reverse. That seems not to be the case from the reports here.


I've said this before, I myself am not really buying the whole variance thing. I really do believe it's perception and usage patterns.

I remember that info from the shootout. That is why I purchased mine as I thought it would be different this year.
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post #6049 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 10:49 AM
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Can someone please recommend a low profile mount? I want the panel to be as close to the wall as possible. I have store credit at Best Buy and they want me to use this http://www.sanus.com/en_EU/products/mounts/vmpl3/. But is 1.25 inch from the wall when mounted.

Also what height should I mount the panel?
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post #6050 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Axxion View Post

Lol guys are actually going to stop content for 5 minutes every hour? "Hey babe, let me run this wipe for 5 minutes real quick then we can continue watching this letterboxed movie"

Also, how do you know year 2102 plasmas have IR problems? I thought they quit making plasmas this year?
Its good idea when playing games in the Plasma because game has static Logo!!!it just a good practice...biggrin.gif:D:D

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post #6051 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

Where in the world do you guys get these brilliant ideas? rolleyes.gif
atleast you have agreed....biggrin.gif

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post #6052 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewTT View Post

Nonsense.
it make sense,try it and you will like it

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post #6053 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 11:44 AM
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atleast you have agreed....biggrin.gif

Quite the opposite. biggrin.gif

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post #6054 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmos5861 View Post

Can someone please recommend a low profile mount? I want the panel to be as close to the wall as possible. I have store credit at Best Buy and they want me to use this http://www.sanus.com/en_EU/products/mounts/vmpl3/. But is 1.25 inch from the wall when mounted.

Also what height should I mount the panel?
That's Highway robbery for just a few pieces of stamped steel. Monoprice has some good mounts but I used a cheap Cheetah Mount from Amazon. (It's their #1 seller and cost something like $20.) Stick with fixed as opposed to telescoping.

Ideally you want the center of the panel to be eye level. Or it should tilt so you're looking at it straight on. Otherwise the louvre-like quality of the anti-reflective filter will diminish picture quality.

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post #6055 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by windomearle View Post

Wow, sounds like I shouldn't let my kids play video games on our new ZT60? I thought burn in was pretty much gone in models introduced in the past few years, but it sounds like it is still present in these Panasonics. Owning an LCD was never so stressful! I probably could have gotten a great LCD for less than what I paid for the ZT60. This TV may put me over the edge if I'm constantly looking for IR or worrying about how long my kids are playing a particular video game.
There is a big difference between burn in and image retention. If you mix up your viewing content you will probably never have an issue...........

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post #6056 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 02:11 PM
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Just picked up a 60ZT60.  Funny...last night, the wife and I went to Best Buy, looked at the 55VT60 and bought it...mostly the wife's decision.  After talking about it last night, the wife said that I had her blessing to go back and get the 60" instead, since delivery won't be for a few days anyways, it's only a few hundred $ more and a few inches wider.

This morning I went back to BB to trade up to the 60" VT, looked at the ZT and went for it.  Haven't told the wife yet about that minor detail, but I think she already has it figured out, because when I returned from BB, she asked how much more it was and all I could say was, "don't ask."  She replied, "You went for the better set, didn't you...".  I promptly changed the subject.

Anyways, thanks for all the great info here.  Hope it's worth it.

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post #6057 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by derekarita View Post

Just picked up a 60ZT60.  Funny...last night, the wife and I went to Best Buy, looked at the 55VT60 and bought it...mostly the wife's decision.  After talking about it last night, the wife said that I had her blessing to go back and get the 60" instead, since delivery won't be for a few days anyways, it's only a few hundred $ more and a few inches wider.

This morning I went back to BB to trade up to the 60" VT, looked at the ZT and went for it.  Haven't told the wife yet about that minor detail, but I think she already has it figured out, because when I returned from BB, she asked how much more it was and all I could say was, "don't ask."  She replied, "You went for the better set, didn't you...".  I promptly changed the subject.

Anyways, thanks for all the great info here.  Hope it's worth it.


Hopefully, the WAF doesn't go south on you. I hope you're still married after she sees the final bill 😉

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post #6058 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chillspace View Post

Hopefully, the WAF doesn't go south on you. I hope you're still married after she sees the final bill 😉

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He just needs to get her a pair of diamond earrings...one carat total weight out to do the trick. That will make her absolutely LOVE the new TV. wink.gif
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post #6059 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Rudy1 View Post

He just needs to get her a pair of diamond earrings...one carat total weight out to do the trick. That will make her absolutely LOVE the new TV. wink.gif

After buying the new set, he'll be out of cash. I suggest he wines her, dine her and give her a good night if you know what I mean. biggrin.gif

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post #6060 of 12817 Old 01-04-2014, 03:34 PM
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I have been the proud owner of the 65ZT60 since October and thought I would share some of my experiences. It's a June build with (Knock wood) no dead pixels or cracks. As far as fan noise it's not an issue for me as the set is 2.5 ft from the back wall and I sit 13 feet away. I Also have fans installed in my equipment rack to keep my Conrad-Johnson tube amps warming up the room tongue.gif Once my audio system gets going the Hafler DH-500 amp for my woofer columns has a MUCH louder fan in it so I can't even hear the ones in the PDP. The only time I hear them is when I'm watching the news in the morning with the volume very low. Here's a photo of where I spend most of my free time. biggrin.gif Yes, I do have a 7500K (Yes, I know 6500K is the standard but it helps compensate for the off-white paint) 94CRI 4ft Fluorescent tube on a bracket mounted to the back of the PDP with a dimmer control set to a 10% peak white level of the set.



I have been very pleased with this PDP. I was an ISF calibrator in the Los Angeles area for better than 15 years starting in the mid 90's (Even before DVD eek.gif) and attended the ISF training back when Joe Kane himself was the instructor. This was when he and Joel Silver first started the ISF and I concerned myself mainly with CRT Rear and Front projection systems all the way up to dual stack Vidikron Vision One and Runco 980's with Farouja line doublers and quadruplers (Very fun stuff!!). Anyway, I still keep up with this as a hobby and own Calman5 with their C6 Colorimeter (Complete with NIST calibration certificate dated 09/13). As many have pointed out this panel can be dialed to within better than 1 Delta E units of accuracy in the Grey Scale tracking and CMS management areas. However! We all know that this panel (Along with all the other Plasma's out there) suffer from ABL which leads me to "My" observations.

I have calibrated many of Sony's BVM's back in the day (Mainly the likes of the 1910's) back before HD but am pretty familiar with the way they look along with some very high end Home Theater systems over the years. Unfortunately this leaves these PDP's in the realm of subjectivity when it comes to Gamma mad.gif As has been discussed all over these forums the CRT BVM's (That most material is mastered on) has a Gamma very close to a 2.4 power curve. The ITU put forth a "Standard" for digital displays in 2011 with it's BT-1886 curve that closely follows a 2.4 power curve with the ability to allow for different black levels. I don't want to go into details here but it IS being adopted by the professional community as we speak. I don't have any experience with other PDP's but I do with this one. smile.gif

I probably have in excess of 100 hours playing with this PDP (After breaking in for about 500 hrs. Currently has 1400 hrs). I did not break it in with the slides but with varying program material including mostly full screen but with a good amount of 1.33 and 2.4 material. My family uses the set for daily viewing so I leave it on the "Custom" setting with a lowered contrast level to help prevent IR. And no, "I" have not had an issue with IR with this unit, I watch very little sports but quite a bit of 2.40 film content.

I first started calibrating the set using the Day and Night ISFccc setting to compare different Gamma/Cal setups. I like using calibration Disc's versus generators as this helps to compensate for the entire video chain. Some of you that have been around long enough may remember this one. smile.gif



Thought you may get a Kick out of that! Anyway, I use the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD versions of Joe Kane's Digital video Essentials and HD Basic's, AVSHD 709, Avia's, HQV's Benchmark and Stacey Spears and Don Munsil's HD Benchmark 1st and Second Editions disc's. And by the way: Stacey, if your out there we haven't spoke in years but would like to extend a warm Hello and Best wish's for the new year! I calibrated his rear projection set and we modified our Pioneer Elite CLD-97 LaserDisc players for RF Dolby Digital AC-3 outputs on my kitchen table some years ago.

Sorry, I'm getting side tracked.. The best "Subjective" results I have obtained are with the Small APL windows on the AVSHD disc followed by the S&M 2nd edition equal energy windows. I calibrated the ISF Night with the standard windows from the AVDHD disc and the ISF Day with the Low APL AVHD windows and in "My" opinion the Low APL Windows from the AVHD disc is the winner. Of course YMMV.

What's bothersome is if I measure the Gamma from the ISF Night setting (with the AVHD standard windows cal) with the Low APL windows the Gamma comes in at 2.67. If I measure the ISF Day setting (with the AVHD Low APL windows cal) with the Standard windows the Gamma comes in at 2.1 !! I really dislike ABL mad.gif

So we know a Targeted Gamma is useless with Plasma's!! So, this PDP is THX certified which lead me to question how THX handle's ABL on "This" set? I started by adjusting the White Balance according to the Service Manual in the Service Mode. I then re-set the THX mode on the TV. I know that THX uses small windows in calibrating their sets (I do not know if they are just small or APL's or what size they actually are) but have read this elsewhere in these forums. I brought up the Small APL windows on the AVSHD 709 Disc and simply measured it:



It does not appear they are targeting BT-1886 but it's curious just "How Close" it falls into a standard 2.4 power curve with the Low APL windows! Now notice how the set comes out of black with the 10% stimulus level coming in at a Gamma point of 2.16. THX appears to want the Blacks to come out sooner just like BT-1886 with perhaps even a bit more extension. Of course all this is conjecture but this curve measures an average 2.42 Gamma with an almost perfect power level at 20, 30 and 50% Stimulus! Coincidence?

I calibrated my set with the same setting for ISF Day and Night aside from targeting a 2.2 power curve for Day and BT-1886 for night. My contrast is set at 60 which gives me 33.5 Foot Lamberts with the Small AVHD APL Windows (30 with the standard windows, again ABL...) which leaves me a bit of headroom above white (About 242 max where white is at 235). I have settled on these and have been quite happy.

Again, just my views, YMMV. Have spend enough time on this. Going to sit down and put a movie on biggrin.gif

Thanks for listening to my rambling. Bob..
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