Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 304 - AVS Forum
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post #9091 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:10 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

The VT60 looks absolutely identical to a ZT60 in dark or dimly lit room and any possible difference that would be seen would only be visible by side by side carefully inspected comparison, and even then it's very difficult to see. The fact that you think you see a huge difference at all in black levels between the VT and the ZT is definitely placebo. Even in a store lit room you would not see a huge difference, if at all. Matter of fact I'm assuming you were at a MAGNOLIA Best Buy which means that that the ZT was displayed in a low light area of the store. Just get a really bright LED sounds like that might be what you want.

The ZT was actually set at the beginning of the home theater so it wasn't in a dark area. Half was under BB lights the other half in the theater area. The blacks just looked so damn good..I can't recall at all saying this about my VT60. To me the ZT is definetely superior to the VT60. That filter and the gapless panel is spot on. It's unfortunate not all were made great. Btw the one at BB was all intact and there were hundred of hand marks all over it from lifting if and moving it. So my guess is that these extreme weather conditions going around this winter and the just te cold
Itself might possibly be the culprit since lots do things lose their hold in the cold especially adhesive. This contract and expand like elastic bands in the cold. I wonder if those who purchased in better weather have this issue.

Anyway I think I may splurge for the 60ZT60 from Pauls for 2999$. I just can't see where my VT60 is doing blacks this good with the lights off. Also my screen glows a lot and I didn't see one hint of that on the ZT.

The F8500 is nice but not ZT60 nice. I felt if I went with that I would be screwing my self over.
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post #9092 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

A light controlled room with 6500K back lighting at the optimum level of brightness would be good. Neutral walls would help too. Then a reference Blu-ray signal simultaneously to both displays. It's not the easiest thing to set up. Then of course the viewers would need to be experienced and motivated to examine the images very carefully. I'm not interested or qualified for that task. It would also help if only the image was visible and not other identifying features.

When folks feel that the know which image or display has the best picture quality, there are many factors that can contribute to that opinion that are not directly related to the capability of a given display. When I start off looking at an Elite Kuro I'm going to expect the best. When I start off looking at a LCD panel I'm going to expect less than the best. It seems to be the way we most of us function. eek.gif

Haha so true! Yup for me ZT is the best period! wink.gif. And of course my opinion only matters in my own home! wink.gif. And rightfully so.

Yeah I definitely want to get another ideal lume again.

I can't wait to test both 141 and ZT on my oppo 103 side by side. That will be fun for sure smile.gif!
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post #9093 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

The VT60 looks absolutely identical to a ZT60 in dark or dimly lit room and any possible difference that would be seen would only be visible by side by side carefully inspected comparison, and even then it's very difficult to see. The fact that you think you see a huge difference at all in black levels between the VT and the ZT is definitely placebo. Even in a store lit room you would not see a huge difference, if at all. Matter of fact I'm assuming you were at a MAGNOLIA Best Buy which means that that the ZT was displayed in a low light area of the store. Just get a really bright LED sounds like that might be what you want.
A dimly lit room should be enough to show the difference, even if it is subtle, because that filter will be working its magic by way of light deflection. I can only base this on the rudimentary video I saw of the shootout where it clearly trumped the other 2 in even low lighting. The ZT has also been measured to have a higher contrast ratio, and I can only surmise this is possible because of the aforementioned superior light deflection. In pitch black without the prospect of any reflections, I suspect this is where one would have the most difficulty identifying one from the other.
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post #9094 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

Haha so true! Yup for me ZT is the best period! wink.gif. And of course my opinion only matters in my own home! wink.gif. And rightfully so.

Yeah I definitely want to get another ideal lume again.

I can't wait to test both 141 and ZT on my oppo 103 side by side. That will be fun for sure smile.gif!
If you're in the San Francisco Bay Area I would sure like to join you for that side by side comparison. tongue.gif

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post #9095 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If you're in the San Francisco Bay Area I would sure like to join you for that side by side comparison. tongue.gif

If I were you def would be invited. Orlando here.

Now if I could get my 141, 141, 500m, 5020, and ZT going all at once lol! 5 panel shootout! smile.gif. Can you say fuse box!
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post #9096 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

The ZT was actually set at the beginning of the home theater so it wasn't in a dark area. Half was under BB lights the other half in the theater area. The blacks just looked so damn good..I can't recall at all saying this about my VT60. To me the ZT is definetely superior to the VT60. That filter and the gapless panel is spot on. It's unfortunate not all were made great. Btw the one at BB was all intact and there were hundred of hand marks all over it from lifting if and moving it. So my guess is that these extreme weather conditions going around this winter and the just te cold
Itself might possibly be the culprit since lots do things lose their hold in the cold especially adhesive. This contract and expand like elastic bands in the cold. I wonder if those who purchased in better weather have this issue.

Anyway I think I may splurge for the 60ZT60 from Pauls for 2999$. I just can't see where my VT60 is doing blacks this good with the lights off. Also my screen glows a lot and I didn't see one hint of that on the ZT.

The F8500 is nice but not ZT60 nice. I felt if I went with that I would be screwing my self over.

So, why not buy the one you saw at Best Buy? Should be considerably less than $3000.

Though I am an employee of Magnolia Home Theater, the views and opinions I express on this forum are those of my own and not my employer.
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post #9097 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

If you're in the San Francisco Bay Area I would sure like to join you for that side by side comparison. tongue.gif

If I were you def would be invited. Orlando here.

Now if I could get my 141, 141, 500m, 5020, and ZT going all at once lol! 5 panel shootout! smile.gif. Can you say fuse box!
OK. I better not visit you. I'm already detecting envy fueled hatred building. eek.gifmad.gif

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post #9098 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:36 PM
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OK. I better not visit you. I'm already detecting envy fueled hatred building. eek.gifmad.gif

frown.gif.
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post #9099 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 08:56 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Speakerphile View Post

So, why not buy the one you saw at Best Buy? Should be considerably less than $3000.

65ZT60 open box was 2669$ with 2700 hours of pure torch mode on it. I'd rather spend the 300$ more and grab the 60ZT60.

Basically at this point it's either go hard or go home and it looks like I'm going home
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post #9100 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:06 PM
 
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Torch mode, is that a fact? wink.gif Here's your opportunity to examine it with a fine-tooth comb with your own slides plus look for those dreaded microfractures and detaching corners, so you'll know exactly what you're getting (or not getting as it were).
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post #9101 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:15 PM
 
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To many hours...and the fact that it's not new would bug me out. Best option is either this

$2,391.02
Fulfillment by Amazon


Used Amazon Warehouse Deals
89% positive
409767 ratings
Eligible for FREE Shipping on orders over $35.00
Comments: Item is in original packaging, but packaging may come damaged. Item is pristine and without scratches. All accessories are present and undamaged.

Or

2999$ 60ZT60 from Pauls NIB NO TAX and free shipping
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post #9102 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:23 PM
 
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That seller has an 89% satisfaction rate...not that great for one seeking perfection, IMO.
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post #9103 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

So the ZT does have better pq then the VT?

The reviewers who have seen both say that the ZT and VT are basically identical in a darkened room but the ZT is better in lit or daylight situations due to its panel.

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post #9104 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:40 PM
 
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That seller has an 89% satisfaction rate...not that great for one seeking perfection, IMO.

Wait was that sarcasm?? wink.gif
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post #9105 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:46 PM
 
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Sorta....in your case, the devil you know (the panel at Best Buy) is better than the devil the sales hungry Amazon marketplace seller only tells you about.
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post #9106 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That seller has an 89% satisfaction rate...not that great for one seeking perfection, IMO.

Wait was that sarcasm?? wink.gif
No, it's not. Just facts. Pristine and "like new" are sales terms and not literally true.

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post #9107 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 10:04 PM
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What mode on the tv and what caused your IR
the IR was caused by Assassin's Creed IV and Gears of War. I gamed in Pro 1 & that's what I have the pixel flipper on too. I remember Vinnie said to use vivid but that looks say too dim. I think I may have messed with the settings so I switched it back to Pro 1.

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post #9108 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 10:07 PM
 
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No, it's not. Just facts. Pristine and "like new" are sales terms and not literally true.

So a bad idea then? Maybe it shows up in great shape and if not guess it just goes back. I have dealt with Pauls before and they are a pain to deal with returning things if necessary.

Is there anything I can do with the VT60 as far as my owners sure if blacks to show you guys if it's ok?
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If you could pick a brand new set either pre panasonic manufacturer fan fix, which I believe was September or after, which would you pick? I ask because everyone is saying that the micro fractures are happening due to the fix?
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post #9110 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

The ZT was actually set at the beginning of the home theater so it wasn't in a dark area. Half was under BB lights the other half in the theater area. The blacks just looked so damn good..I can't recall at all saying this about my VT60. To me the ZT is definetely superior to the VT60. That filter and the gapless panel is spot on. It's unfortunate not all were made great. Btw the one at BB was all intact and there were hundred of hand marks all over it from lifting if and moving it. So my guess is that these extreme weather conditions going around this winter and the just te cold
Itself might possibly be the culprit since lots do things lose their hold in the cold especially adhesive. This contract and expand like elastic bands in the cold. I wonder if those who purchased in better weather have this issue.

Anyway I think I may splurge for the 60ZT60 from Pauls for 2999$. I just can't see where my VT60 is doing blacks this good with the lights off. Also my screen glows a lot and I didn't see one hint of that on the ZT.

The F8500 is nice but not ZT60 nice. I felt if I went with that I would be screwing my self over.
Why not try and get the BB demo ZT you are familiar with at a discount?
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post #9111 of 12817 Old 02-12-2014, 11:45 PM
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Why not try and get the BB demo ZT you are familiar with at a discount?
Already answered. The BB one may be gone if you wait too long. Can return it if you get a descent low hrs one from the other suppliers.
Gapless ZT trounces VT, especially if you view it off-center axis. There are no internal reflections to confuse with the pixel light output. In a darkened room, I have seen the off axis self generated reflections in the VT glass that the ZT does not produce that convinced me despite the "reviewers" VT as good as ZT statement crap. Anyway, Sound & Vision measured the ZT contrast at over 30000 to the VTs at around 25000. Your call.
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post #9112 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 12:27 AM
 
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Ah. so it was Sound & Vision who observed those different contrast ratios. Thanks for confirming who measured it. I wonder how their lab is set up and if the differing CR measurements had more to do with how the individual screens managed ambient lighting and/or light reflecting back to the screen (i.e. from the wall/ceiling/furnishings), improvements that would be appreciated in all but complete blackout rooms.
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post #9113 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 03:23 AM
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for all those who waited - never ending price increases as of 6am today - from Amazon

Items in your Shopping Cart will always reflect the most recent price displayed on their product detail pages.

Panasonic TC-P65VT60 65-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma HDTV (Discontinued by Manufacturer) has increased from $3,899.00 to $4,299.00
Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 65-Inch 1080p 600Hz 3D Smart Plasma TV (Discontinued by Manufacturer) has increased from $5,199.00 to $5,599.00

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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post #9114 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 03:57 AM
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I don't think the Zt60 is "that" black. I watched Avatar in the dark on THX cinema. Yes its black, but the bezel is still darker
Mo!
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post #9115 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 04:19 AM
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I don't think the Zt60 is "that" black. I watched Avatar in the dark on THX cinema. Yes its black, but the bezel is still darker
Mo!

I'm pretty sure that the ZT has the best black level of any plasma ever made.
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post #9116 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 06:59 AM
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I'm pretty sure that the ZT has the best black level of any plasma ever made.
No, "I'm pretty sure" it's more like the 6th or 7th best one behind the 9g and 9.5g Kuros and tied with the vt60.

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post #9117 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 07:09 AM
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No, "I'm pretty sure" it's more like the 6th or 7th best one behind the 9g and 9.5g Kuros and tied with the vt60.
I'm not getting into the argument of whether a recently-discontinued TV is darker than one that was discontinued 6 years ago, but it seems you're doubling up. Saying the 9g and 9.5g Kuros are darker is fair, listing each screen size is not. So if that's your angle, then the ZT would be 3rd, not 6th.

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post #9118 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 07:11 AM
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No, "I'm pretty sure" it's more like the 6th or 7th best one behind the 9g and 9.5g Kuros and tied with the vt60.

Wrong but then it is hard to accept that the old king has moved on and a new king has taken the throne - "The king is dead - Long live the king"

From CNET and confirmed by all the other major reviewers - The ZT is now the benchmark against which all others will be measured.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

"Let me get this out of the way first: Panasonic's TC-PZT60 is now the best-performing TV we've ever reviewed. Perhaps a few of the old, supertweaked Pioneer Kuros out there might deliver slightly superior black levels, but I've never had any of those in the lab. This one beats my in-house Kuro, and every other TV in my lab. Finally. The TC-PVT60 also beat our in-house Kuro, so the most important question for videophiles with money to burn becomes"
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Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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post #9119 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 07:18 AM
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Wrong but then it is hard to accept that the old king has moved on and a new king has taken the throne - "The king is dead - Long live the king"

From CNET and confirmed by all the other major reviewers - The ZT is now the benchmark against which all others will be measured.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

"Let me get this out of the way first: Panasonic's TC-PZT60 is now the best-performing TV we've ever reviewed. Perhaps a few of the old, supertweaked Pioneer Kuros out there might deliver slightly superior black levels, but I've never had any of those in the lab. This one beats my in-house Kuro, and every other TV in my lab. Finally. The TC-PVT60 also beat our in-house Kuro, so the most important question for videophiles with money to burn becomes"
As far as black level measurements are concerned it does not best them but it is close, heck I have a vt60 as my main viewing set. I think the improved filter of these sets is why it appeared darker, especially the zt. And after comparing my vt60 to my modified 101fd, the difference is quite discernible in low low apl content at night but other than that, they look identical majority of time.

On my cellular excuse typos.

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post #9120 of 12817 Old 02-13-2014, 07:20 AM
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Wrong but then it is hard to accept that the old king has moved on and a new king has taken the throne - "The king is dead - Long live the king"

From CNET and confirmed by all the other major reviewers - The ZT is now the benchmark against which all others will be measured.

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p60zt60/4505-6482_7-35567247.html

"Let me get this out of the way first: Panasonic's TC-PZT60 is now the best-performing TV we've ever reviewed. Perhaps a few of the old, supertweaked Pioneer Kuros out there might deliver slightly superior black levels, but I've never had any of those in the lab. This one beats my in-house Kuro, and every other TV in my lab. Finally. The TC-PVT60 also beat our in-house Kuro, so the most important question for videophiles with money to burn becomes"

Just to continue the conversation and support what CNET said "Perhaps a few of the old, supertweaked Pioneer Kuros out there might deliver slightly superior black levels"

Some interesting stuff from across the pond!

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/zt65-kuro-201305283044.htm

"Interestingly, both Pioneer Kuro owners who loaned their sets (the PDP-LX6090 and the KRP-500A) for the event said that they would rather keep their existing televisions after seeing the ZT65, VT65 and F8500 in action, but conceded that the ZT is the closest yet Panasonic has come to dethroning the Kuro as far as black level is concerned. In a straw poll of the attendees at a Q&A session towards the end, when asked which of the currently available TV would they buy if money was no object, almost everyone (including David and me) chose the Panasonic TX-P60ZT65."

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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