Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 322 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9631 of 13527 Old 02-21-2014, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Musky45 View Post

How would I do that?  I have a motorola vip1232 cable box-- any way to access the service menus to turn it to native resolution??
You can get that information from your cable company.
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post #9632 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 02:59 AM
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Pixel flipper in vivid mode isnt the brightest setting for pixel flipper. ABL is why is what was explained to me. Low panel brightness has the most light output in a custom or pro mode. Had to test this alot for the xbox logo. That will burn out the bar quickest if it is going to go away.

Also last night i noticed ebu default and home theater mode have different black levels then the rest of the other modes. As in much higher.
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post #9633 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

No way! You are returning your 65VT60 that you got for $1,699 when it was all said and done and bought a 60ZT60 for $3,000!!!!!!!

Are you insane? Wait, don't answer that. I think we already know the answer to this.
I truly hope that he can finally relax and enjoy his new set, but if history is any indication of what's to come...T_T

Edit: I just noticed that price to size ratio on the exchange.eek.gif

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post #9634 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 04:29 AM
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While I too would have preferred that that the ZT was made in Japan, I do question the sentiment that the Pioneer's build quality was superior due to it weighing more. Heck, I would guess a Westinghouse from the same era as the Kuro also weighed more than the ZT's. Considering the push for thinner bezels and so forth, I especially cannot believe a 5 year older panel design would be applauded for having a much thicker bezel and overall dimensions.

As for the Pioneer Owners threads being less than positive towards the 60 Series Panny's, I would expect nothing less. That is many have been living with 50 inch displays by choice due to the idea of it being the best possible picture. Moreover, to accept that the ZT60 is better also means that the Pioneer's legendary resale value will/would take a hit. To wit, you have a large number of the hard core AVS membership that are all rocking Kuro's. I cannot imagine just how dogged the 60 Series are in those parts... And all these owners are missing the greatness that is 3D!
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post #9635 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 04:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

While I too would have preferred that that the ZT was made in Japan, I do question the sentiment that the Pioneer's build quality was superior due to it weighing more. Heck, I would guess a Westinghouse from the same era as the Kuro also weighed more than the ZT's. Considering the push for thinner bezels and so forth, I especially cannot believe a 5 year older panel design would be applauded for having a much thicker bezel and overall dimensions.

As for the Pioneer Owners threads being less than positive towards the 60 Series Panny's, I would expect nothing less. That is many have been living with 50 inch displays by choice due to the idea of it being the best possible picture. Moreover, to accept that the ZT60 is better also means that the Pioneer's legendary resale value will/would take a hit. To wit, you have a large number of the hard core AVS membership that are all rocking Kuro's. I cannot imagine just how dogged the 60 Series are in those parts... And all these owners are missing the greatness that is 3D!

I am selling My Kuro for a 60zt that is being delivered. I assure you the ZT has a lot to prove to me in my home. That being said, I recommend panny plasmas to everyone. My older panny plasma, Japan built, is still performing great after 8 years. I will miss my Elite 111fd. It has been my pride and joy, but I have no room for 2 large tv's. This is not the first time I have sold something that is a favorite of mine and seems to have always worked out ok. Time will tell me which one is the best. I am looking forward to the ZT's arrival early next week and I plan to use control cal after break-in to calibrate it. If the ISF DAY and NIGHT modes resemble anything like my Pioneer, I will be one happy owner.
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post #9636 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by cappy1 View Post

Others have mentioned the IR problem, so you are not alone. However, there is some sort of inexplicable variation going on since I have not had any issues at all.

My ZT is in the family room and used mostly for watching either Fox News or ESPN channels that always have banners (have projection setup for movies) and I have not seen any IR. Also, I just plugged the ZT in and started watching, just as I did with my Kuro (Hopefully, this admission will not get me banned from this forum for life). I have a little over 100 hours on the set so far and occasionally do a screen wipe and some pixel peeping. I am using the D-Nice settings with minor tweaks and plan to get the set calibrated in a few months.

Maybe I need an eye exam or am unknowingly under hypnosis? As they say, perception is reality and ignorance is bliss.

My ZT seems pretty resistant to IR with the exception of the top right hand corner of the screen for some reason. The worst offender/culprit is that damned FOX sports logo during football games. That particular logo has been especially troublesome for my particular set. Thankfully I haven't had any burn in but that corner of my set seems to be far more sensitive to IR than the rest of the screen. Other sports score boxes/tickers/bottom lines haven't presented much of an IR issue at all anywhere else on my screen. Beyond that minor issue, my set has the very faint, mostly invisible vertical band on the far right side of the screen that I've seen on other ZTs at stores and shops. That band is so faint in appearance that in spite of being hyper sensitive to screen defects and faults, it doesn't bother me at all. Most times it isn't visible even when I'm looking for it. I'd go as far as to say that if my set didn't have that (in my view) very minor screen fault, it would be nigh on perfect in my opinion, in my experience and for my particular use. I love this set and even though I have no use for another one, I want to buy a second ZT just to have it. Fantastic black level performance, excellent motion handling and 24p performance and a sharp, crisp HD picture with no visible video noise.

Hopefully, and it seems like the case for the most part, the majority of ZT owners are enjoying their sets as much as I enjoy mine.

Good weekend to all.
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post #9637 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by TrickyT View Post

I just want to know if this banner bar is burn-in or not. If this will go away, I might go pick this up for 2500. If it's not going away, I'll pass.

I wouldn't take the chance. Burn in usually means that image is permanently burned into the cells/pixels and even if it fades a bit over a period of time, it likely will never fully disappear. If it were fresh but stubborn IR, it's much more likely that it would completely fade over time with regular use or using a pixel flipper. From what you've said about the set, it seems like it has permanent burn in. I wouldn't pay $2,500 for a used ZT either way but that's only my opinion. Good luck with whichever set you choose.
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post #9638 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mvision7m View Post

My ZT seems pretty resistant to IR with the exception of the top right hand corner of the screen for some reason. The worst offender/culprit is that damned FOX sports logo during football games. That particular logo has been especially troublesome for my particular set. Thankfully I haven't had any burn in but that corner of my set seems to be far more sensitive to IR than the rest of the screen. Other sports score boxes/tickers/bottom lines haven't presented much of an IR issue at all anywhere else on my screen. Beyond that minor issue, my set has the very faint, mostly invisible vertical band on the far right side of the screen that I've seen on other ZTs at stores and shops. That band is so faint in appearance that in spite of being hyper sensitive to screen defects and faults, it doesn't bother me at all. Most times it isn't visible even when I'm looking for it. I'd go as far as to say that if my set didn't have that (in my view) very minor screen fault, it would be nigh on perfect in my opinion, in my experience and for my particular use. I love this set and even though I have no use for another one, I want to buy a second ZT just to have it. Fantastic black level performance, excellent motion handling and 24p performance and a sharp, crisp HD picture with no visible video noise.

Hopefully, and it seems like the case for the most part, the majority of ZT owners are enjoying their sets as much as I enjoy mine.

Good weekend to all.
Do you have the pixel orbiter set to on or auto?
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post #9639 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

I am selling My Kuro for a 60zt that is being delivered. I assure you the ZT has a lot to prove to me in my home. That being said, I recommend panny plasmas to everyone. My older panny plasma, Japan built, is still performing great after 8 years. I will miss my Elite 111fd. It has been my pride and joy, but I have no room for 2 large tv's. This is not the first time I have sold something that is a favorite of mine and seems to have always worked out ok. Time will tell me which one is the best. I am looking forward to the ZT's arrival early next week and I plan to use control cal after break-in to calibrate it. If the ISF DAY and NIGHT modes resemble anything like my Pioneer, I will be one happy owner.

I truly and completely understand. Moreover, I truly am not saying the ZT is better or worse. Rather, more of a commentary about the futility of going to a different owners thread and not expecting your boat not to be rocked.

I hope the ZT works out wonderfully for you. I cannot overstate just how much I have enjoyed mine. I even enjoy looking at it when it is off which is often during music listening. I am not sure why, but while I really like my GT50, I just do not remotely feel the same connection. Prior to purchasing a GT50 2 Summers ago and the ZT60 in December, most of my viewing was on either a Sony SXRD (A3000) or my Sony KD-34XBR910 That is I truly am TV technology agnostic. Allz about price/performance for me...

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post #9640 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Do you have the pixel orbiter set to on or auto?

I had it set to "on" for the longest time but that FOX sports logo would still be retained in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Eventually, after experiencing that having it on didn't help, I turned it off and have had it off for about a month or so now. I have had any issues with it off and football is over so I won't have to worry about that goofy FOX logo for months.
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post #9641 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by mvision7m View Post

I had it set to "on" for the longest time but that FOX sports logo would still be retained in the upper right hand corner of the screen. Eventually, after experiencing that having it on didn't help, I turned it off and have had it off for about a month or so now. I have had any issues with it off and football is over so I won't have to worry about that goofy FOX logo for months.

CORRECTION: I haven't had any IR issues with orbiter off. I don't think it helps much at all.
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post #9642 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CrazyNurse View Post

Anyone using the Harmony Smart Control with the ZT60?

Does it work well?

I still have a Harmony One but am open to upgrade.
I replaced a One with an Ultimate. It's definitely an upgrade, improvement all around. Not sure about the Touch.

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post #9643 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Do you have the pixel orbiter set to on or auto?
Pixel orbiter doesn't prevent IR, it just makes It fuzzy.

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post #9644 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Pixel orbiter doesn't prevent IR, it just makes It fuzzy.
Please show a picture of an IR logo on your panel that is fuzzy. I have never seen anyone post a picture of fuzzy IR. I have only heard people repeat this line because that is what that continually read.

I can show you a picture of my panel with zero IR even after watching Fox Sports for hours.
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post #9645 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Please show a picture of an IR logo on your panel that is fuzzy. I have never seen anyone post a picture of fuzzy IR. I have only heard people repeat this line because that is what that continually read.

I can show you a picture of my panel with zero IR even after watching Fox Sports for hours.
Pixel orbiter doesn't affect contrast, brightness or any other panel setting that causes IR. All it does is shift the entire image, rotating it a couple of pixels. Thus, long term exposure to fixed logos larger than a couple of pixels wide will still be there, but the image will be fuzzy & a couple of pixels larger.

I won't be posting pictures of this because I won't engage the orbiter on my ZT. That's great if you don't get IR. How many hours are on your set? I didn't get any IR at all early on regardless of content, but now I get it all the time.

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post #9646 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Pixel orbiter doesn't affect contrast, brightness or any other panel setting that causes IR. All it does is shift the entire image, rotating it a couple of pixels. Thus, long term exposure to fixed logos larger than a couple of pixels wide will still be there, but the image will be fuzzy & a couple of pixels larger.

I won't be posting pictures of this because I won't engage the orbiter on my ZT.
So what you are saying is you really can't prove your statement. In the meantime I will continue to engage it on my VT60.
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post #9647 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:48 AM
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Is it known that in the first couple hundred hours of use plasmas picture changes? For the first 20-30 hours I hated the ZT60. I didn't think it looked that great. But in the past 24 hours things have changed, I am actually really happy now. Picture looks brighter, crisper and more clear. Must be placebo.
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post #9648 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Please show a picture of an IR logo on your panel that is fuzzy. I have never seen anyone post a picture of fuzzy IR. I have only heard people repeat this line because that is what that continually read. I can show you a picture of my panel with zero IR even after watching Fox Sports for hours.

Well since the Pixel Orbiter only shifts the image a few pixels, the general consensus is that the IR caused by a bright station logo for instance will have slightly blurred edges and look softer than it would if the Pixel Orbiter had not been used. This makes sense to me since i get sometimes fairly stubborn IR from a certain news channel that i watch a lot which has a razor-sharp KTLA 5 logo in the corner. On my G10 i never used the Pixel Orbiter and the IR of that logo is "sharper" and is much more clearly defined than it is on my ST60 where the Pixel Orbiter has been set to ON since the TV was new. On the ST60, the IR of that logo looks softer especially around the very edges of the graphic box and text.
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post #9649 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

So what you are saying is you really can't prove your statement. In the meantime I will continue to engage it on my VT60.
From the Panasonic eHelp manual:
Quote:
Pixel orbiter - Slightly shifts the image to reduce the possibility of image retention.
This isn't an opinion or a controversial position. It's clear what the orbiter does and it's clear what causes IR. I have experienced the fuzzy IR in the past and I don't think it's necessary to use the orbiter. However, it causes no harm so feel free to use it all you want.

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post #9650 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by mohanman View Post

Is it known that in the first couple hundred hours of use plasmas picture changes? For the first 20-30 hours I hated the ZT60. I didn't think it looked that great. But in the past 24 hours things have changed, I am actually really happy now. Picture looks brighter, crisper and more clear. Must be placebo.
Might be placebo or you're just getting used to what you're seeing. However, although I have no evidence to support this, I believe the TV has a software that makes the picture change over time. As mentioned above, I didn't used to get IR but now I do. I've seen some (i.e. vinnie) suggest that perhaps this is the result of changes caused by the TV's aging algorithm.

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Originally Posted by mvision7m View Post

My ZT seems pretty resistant to IR with the exception of the top right hand corner of the screen for some reason. The worst offender/culprit is that damned FOX sports logo during football games. That particular logo has been especially troublesome for my particular set.
Not just your set. wink.gif That logo is a particularly high contrast offender.
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Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post

I truly and completely understand. Moreover, I truly am not saying the ZT is better or worse. Rather, more of a commentary about the futility of going to a different owners thread and not expecting your boat not to be rocked.
If this was a reference to my actions, I've owned both so I feel I can be a little more objective than those who haven't. wink.gif

Gene, I think you'll be in for a treat. I was fortunate that I didn't have to sell my 111FD until after trialing the ZT60.
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post #9653 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

If this was a reference to my actions, I've owned both so I feel I can be a little more objective than those who haven't. wink.gif

Gene, I think you'll be in for a treat. I was fortunate that I didn't have to sell my 111FD until after trialing the ZT60.
What did you find lacking about the 111fd or better about the zt?
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post #9654 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 09:44 AM
 
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The size (50"!) and the uneven wear (using it to watch predominately Blu-rays is the reason for the latter, which is why I've been trying to watch more full-screen content on the ZT).
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post #9655 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 10:06 AM
 
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ZT in the sky with diamonds smile.gif

More zoomed in night/blackout shots please!
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post #9656 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 10:26 AM
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ZT in the sky with diamonds smile.gif


I like it smile.gif
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post #9657 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Might be placebo or you're just getting used to what you're seeing. However, although I have no evidence to support this, I believe the TV has a software that makes the picture change over time. As mentioned above, I didn't used to get IR but now I do. I've seen some (i.e. vinnie) suggest that perhaps this is the result of changes caused by the TV's aging algorithm.

And I've suggested that it could have to do with how your tv was re-adjusted during calibration. Bumped up the settings that would be more likely invoke it. Just another possibility, and you did confirm a while back that IR wasn't a problem before the calibration...

Part of the reason I didn't stick with the S&V settings was more buzz, and too much contrast/brigtness, which wreaked havoc with my sensitivity to phospor lag. I suspect it would also have increased IR on my set. I see some temporary (? I don't spend a lot of time looking for it) IR when I spend too much time in directv menus, directv logo in upper right area in particular. But usually I don't see it most times when I look for it, so I assume it goes away fairly quickly. I don't watch much of anything else that has fixed content, and when there is some, I tend to zoom it out of the picture.
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post #9658 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

From the Panasonic eHelp manual:
This isn't an opinion or a controversial position. It's clear what the orbiter does and it's clear what causes IR. I have experienced the fuzzy IR in the past and I don't think it's necessary to use the orbiter. However, it causes no harm so feel free to use it all you want.
Who is arguing what it does? I think we all know what it does so not sure why you need to reference that it slightly shifts the image. But it also says that it helps prevents IR which I am agreeing with as the manual also says.
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post #9659 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

Pixel orbiter doesn't prevent IR, it just makes It fuzzy.
Please show a picture of an IR logo on your panel that is fuzzy. I have never seen anyone post a picture of fuzzy IR. I have only heard people repeat this line because that is what that continually read.

I can show you a picture of my panel with zero IR even after watching Fox Sports for hours.

It depends on the particular logo, but yes, you kind of have to choose whether you want IR with a less defined border or IR that's smaller with a sharper border. On the whole I think leaving the pixel orbiter on is better because it's really those borders that are noticeable.

Shifting one pixel, which is what tr orbiter does, helps bit it can't prevent IR in the middle of the log unfortunately.


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post #9660 of 13527 Old 02-22-2014, 12:47 PM
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Are you sure its one pixel length? I see it kick in from time to time and its a pretty substantial jump over. Seems more like 4-5 rows/columns.
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