Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 343 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-05-2014, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

Call me crazy, but during dark scenes at night, I could swear I see the black bars on my ZT60 change in brightness when its a 2.35 or 2.40 film, when the brightness of the scene being displayed changes. It's not a constant flicker, but a quick brightness change throughout the both black bars.

And yet it's not throughout entire movies (but the effect can be repeated across the same scenes), and I could swear I'm able to reduce the effect by switching from 96 Hz to 60 Hz.

Maybe I was too sleepy the last two nights I was watching movies. Since I only noticed this these last two weekends. 300 hours in.

CATS is off. All video processing is "Off" on the menu.

Any other thoughts on this guys? Is this ABL? As I had assumed that only affected bright scenes - not quick changes of contrast on dark scenes that have, i.e., a "flashlight come on in a dark spaceship corridor" that causes the brightness to change. Is there a maximum darkness?

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 07:37 AM
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^^^I have no idea and I don't recall having seen it myself. You're sure it's not the "checker shadow illusion"?

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Old 03-05-2014, 07:54 AM
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I have had this TV for about 3 weeks now. Its awesome. I love the 65" ZT60. The PQ is fantastic, good blacks and the noise doesn't seem to bother me anymore. I'm so happy with my purchase. I'm not interested in LEDs/LCDS.. the whole viewing angle thing bothers me, and they feel cheap (all plastic like)

I was about to sell this TV, I even placed an ad for 3999.99, I'm glad no one bought it!
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

Any other thoughts on this guys? Is this ABL? As I had assumed that only affected bright scenes - not quick changes of contrast on dark scenes that have, i.e., a "flashlight come on in a dark spaceship corridor" that causes the brightness to change. Is there a maximum darkness?

I think it's just the way your eyes perceive black. Whenever there is something bright on screen, it's going to affect your perception of the bars' darkness.
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Old 03-05-2014, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post

I think it's just the way your eyes perceive black. Whenever there is something bright on screen, it's going to affect your perception of the bars' darkness.
Yes this is the answer. More light going into your eyes is going to make blacks look deeper. Get a bias light.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:16 AM
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I think it must be me then, since I didn't catch it at all with my old Kuro, or for the first 300 hours or so of the ZT.

But here's the thing -

It's not that the black bars seem deeper when the screen is bright - it's that the black bars get lighter when the screen gets brighter - AH. Wait.

Now I'm confused. Then that would be ABL.

Settings are at 80 Contrast, 10 Brightness, on Professional 1.

I think it may just be my eyes, since I've searched all the forums on the internet and no one else seems to have experienced this.

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

I think it must be me then, since I didn't catch it at all with my old Kuro, or for the first 300 hours or so of the ZT.

But here's the thing -

It's not that the black bars seem deeper when the screen is bright - it's that the black bars get dimmer when the screen gets brighter - AH. Wait.

Now I'm confused. Then that would be ABL.

Settings are at 80 Contrast, 10 Brightness, on Professional 1.

I think it may just be my eyes.

Both the contrast and brightness seem a high!

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

I think it must be me then, since I didn't catch it at all with my old Kuro, or for the first 300 hours or so of the ZT.

But here's the thing -

It's not that the black bars seem deeper when the screen is bright - it's that the black bars get lighter when the screen gets brighter - AH. Wait.

Now I'm confused. Then that would be ABL.

Settings are at 80 Contrast, 10 Brightness, on Professional 1.

I think it may just be my eyes, since I've searched all the forums on the internet and no one else seems to have experienced this.

That sounds like floating blacks, problem is the ZT or any of the other 2013 Panasonics don't exibit that behavior.

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post


Now I'm confused. Then that would be ABL.

No, that is not ABL. ABL affects the maximum light output of bright images, not the minimum luminance level. Tests have show the MLL to remain relatively stable on this set regardless of what is on screen, subject to how we perceive the MLL.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:28 AM
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JJ, can you please tell me what movie and scene you are seeing this in. I would like to test it out. I haven't noticed this on my panel.
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Old 03-05-2014, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ShockFett View Post

JJ, can you please tell me what movie and scene you are seeing this in. I would like to test it out. I haven't noticed this on my panel.

Three so far - The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Pandorum, and Harry Potter 7.2 - the scenes would be, for Sorcerer's Apprentice, any of the scenes that happen in Dave's lab - Pandorum, where Ben Foster's character first starts exploring the abandoned ship and he disposes of flares and starts fleeing the creatures - and in Harry Potter 7.2, the dark scenes taking place during the ending battle at Hogwarts.

Wasn't able to replicate the effect on Star Wars IV: Death Star attack, or LOTR:RotK: meeting the dead army.

It did seem like floating blacks, but no one had reported this.

I also saw all these movies without even noticing the issue.

Prometheus
Elysium
Turbo
Despicable Me 2
Archer S.4
Cinderella
John Adams
Emperor's New Groove
World's End
Fast and the Furious 6, The
Mary Poppins
Rush
Short Circuit
Die Hard 2: Die Harder
Speed Racer
Transformers 2: RotF
Cast Away
Cloud Atlas


I only first caught it with Sorcerer's Apprentice two weeks ago. And there's a lot of films above that have a bevy of dark scenes. Weird, no?

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 09:41 AM
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To bad I don't have any of those movies you have issues with lol! I do have a lot of the ones without. Maybe it's the actual transfer of those movies not the zt itself?
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

Three so far - The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Pandorum, and Harry Potter 7.2 - the scenes would be, for Sorcerer's Apprentice, any of the scenes that happen in Dave's lab - Pandorum, where Ben Foster's character first starts exploring the abandoned ship and he disposes of flares and starts fleeing the creatures - and in Harry Potter 7.2, the dark scenes taking place during the ending battle at Hogwarts.

Wasn't able to replicate the effect on Star Wars IV: Death Star attack, or LOTR:RotK: meeting the dead army.

It did seem like floating blacks, but no one had reported this.

I also saw all these movies without even noticing the issue.

Prometheus
Elysium
Turbo
Despicable Me 2
Archer S.4
Cinderella
John Adams
Emperor's New Groove
World's End
Fast and the Furious 6, The
Mary Poppins
Rush
Short Circuit
Die Hard 2: Die Harder
Speed Racer
Transformers 2: RotF
Cast Away
Cloud Atlas


I only first caught it with Sorcerer's Apprentice two weeks ago. And there's a lot of films above that have a bevy of dark scenes. Weird, no?
JJ,

I will verify if it's the TV or the movies themselves. Please send all of those movies, including the ones that aren't displaying this anomaly, to me as soon as you're able. I will PM you my home address. I promise to get them back to you in the next year or two.

biggrin.gif

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Old 03-05-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

Sorry to take you off your high horse people...was a question for a friend whose picking up one this week. He just doesn't know if he should spend the extra on the ZT. That was all, and he may only be able to get VTs. And since I can't decide what shirt I'm wearing today I didn't want to tell him anything.
You should be able to answer that question yourself. You had both in your house able to put them through there paces. Unless you are still confused/undecided yourself about which you like better.

Tell him the differences between the two models and prices and let him decide.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post


Settings are at 80 Contrast, 10 Brightness, on Professional 1.

How did you arrive at these settings? Did you use a calibration disk? Or did you have it set up by a calibrator? What level is your panel set at Low, Mid, High?

I've been told, and have witnessed by setting it with the calibrator in my home, that Contrast does nothing to improve detail above 65. And brightness came out at 0 or 1 in my viewing area. Yours of course is different. But using a proper calibration disk with a good pattern for setting brightness will tone that down I'm sure. I think that might be half your problem.
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:26 AM
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Brightness is rediculously high. I bet it has to do with that. Contrast is a bit high too but i doubt thats the cause
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

Three so far - The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Pandorum, and Harry Potter 7.2 - the scenes would be, for Sorcerer's Apprentice, any of the scenes that happen in Dave's lab - Pandorum, where Ben Foster's character first starts exploring the abandoned ship and he disposes of flares and starts fleeing the creatures - and in Harry Potter 7.2, the dark scenes taking place during the ending battle at Hogwarts.

Wasn't able to replicate the effect on Star Wars IV: Death Star attack, or LOTR:RotK: meeting the dead army.

It did seem like floating blacks, but no one had reported this.

I also saw all these movies without even noticing the issue.

Prometheus
Elysium
Turbo
Despicable Me 2
Archer S.4
Cinderella
John Adams
Emperor's New Groove
World's End
Fast and the Furious 6, The
Mary Poppins
Rush
Short Circuit
Die Hard 2: Die Harder
Speed Racer
Transformers 2: RotF
Cast Away
Cloud Atlas


I only first caught it with Sorcerer's Apprentice two weeks ago. And there's a lot of films above that have a bevy of dark scenes. Weird, no?

Were these streamed or BluRay? I've noticed on streamed movies my black bars do weird things and aren't as black. And then there's the possibility that your BluRay player may not be set up correctly. Have you been to the thread on this site for your player and looked for the recommended settings?
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr Paw View Post

How did you arrive at these settings? Did you use a calibration disk? Or did you have it set up by a calibrator? What level is your panel set at Low, Mid, High?

I've been told, and have witnessed by setting it with the calibrator in my home, that Contrast does nothing to improve detail above 65. And brightness came out at 0 or 1 in my viewing area. Yours of course is different. But using a proper calibration disk with a good pattern for setting brightness will tone that down I'm sure. I think that might be half your problem.

Started with D-Nice's base settings for "Day" (I have lots of light control issues, repete knows), and tweaked to my satisfaction. Panel is at Mid.

I think I have Gamma set at 2.6, which is why I increased Brightness and Contrast so much. I'm going to return it to 2.4, and lower Brightness to a different level - see where that takes me.

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJxiv1215 View Post

Three so far - The Sorcerer's Apprentice, Pandorum, and Harry Potter 7.2 - the scenes would be, for Sorcerer's Apprentice, any of the scenes that happen in Dave's lab - Pandorum, where Ben Foster's character first starts exploring the abandoned ship and he disposes of flares and starts fleeing the creatures - and in Harry Potter 7.2, the dark scenes taking place during the ending battle at Hogwarts.

Wasn't able to replicate the effect on Star Wars IV: Death Star attack, or LOTR:RotK: meeting the dead army.

It did seem like floating blacks, but no one had reported this.

I also saw all these movies without even noticing the issue.

Prometheus
Elysium
Turbo
Despicable Me 2
Archer S.4
Cinderella
John Adams
Emperor's New Groove
World's End
Fast and the Furious 6, The
Mary Poppins
Rush
Short Circuit
Die Hard 2: Die Harder
Speed Racer
Transformers 2: RotF
Cast Away
Cloud Atlas


I only first caught it with Sorcerer's Apprentice two weeks ago. And there's a lot of films above that have a bevy of dark scenes. Weird, no?
Does it happen in thx cinema mode as well?
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Old 03-05-2014, 10:35 AM
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Does it happen in thx cinema mode as well?

Haven't tried changing the Picture settings yet. That mode - incoming blasphemy - has far too yellowish whites and a greenish tint to the image for my taste.
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Originally Posted by Mr Paw View Post

Were these streamed or BluRay? I've noticed on streamed movies my black bars do weird things and aren't as black. And then there's the possibility that your BluRay player may not be set up correctly. Have you been to the thread on this site for your player and looked for the recommended settings?
\

All Blu-ray, 24p from my Sony S790.

Not the settings, since again, never noticed it to my Kuro or in the first 300 hours of the ZTs use. Haven't changed a thing in the settings.

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 10:46 AM
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I know many of us have upgraded from older Pioneers and Pannys but if your looking for content to show off your AV setup--here you go:


Video:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1425519/official-blu-ray-picture-quality-rankings-the-tiers-updated-through-december-16-2013


Sound:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1333462/the-new-master-list-of-bass-in-movies-with-frequency-charts


*There have been several generations of these threads but these are the most current ones.
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:40 AM
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Personally I perfer Ralph Potts lists vs. list made of rankings from a few AVSers who think they know what is best regardless of pro reviews or other members input.

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Old 03-05-2014, 11:43 AM
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The only problem with the ZT is the fan noise and the degree to which that is a problem falls on a pretty wide spectrum. (I note from a previous post that it doesn't bother you.) IR is an issue, but who knows if it's worse or better than the F8500.

I was watching a b&w interview with Robert Downey Jr the other day, they were mostly in a light colored room so most of my screen was very whitish. I was simultaneoulsy watching the directv logo IR slowly fade, and towards the end what did I notice on the right hand side, I think it was the two bright white lines that some have mentioned in the past. I must have 1000 hours on my set by now, probably even more, but first time I even noticed them. Oh no! tongue.gif
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Old 03-05-2014, 11:49 AM
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Haven't tried changing the Picture settings yet. That mode - incoming blasphemy - has far too yellowish whites and a greenish tint to the image for my taste.
\

All Blu-ray, 24p from my Sony S790.

Not the settings, since again, never noticed it to my Kuro or in the first 300 hours of the ZTs use. Haven't changed a thing in the settings.

I actually agree with you that there's a greenish and yellowish tint to facial tones and features. It doesn't look natural or realistic to me either. We look at peoples faces everyday and have good idea how faces should look. Otherwise I think thx mode would be good.

I was more interested to see if you had the same issue in thx mode.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Personally I perfer Ralph Potts lists vs. list made of rankings from a few AVSers who think they know what is best regardless of pro reviews or other members input.

The video link above has the movies linked to cinemasquid which averages out all the scores from numerous well-regarded sites.

For example, Inception has over 20 professional reviews with a weighted Video Score of "93".

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Old 03-05-2014, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post

I actually agree with you that there's a greenish and yellowish tint to facial tones and features. It doesn't look natural or realistic to me either. We look at peoples faces everyday and have good idea how faces should look. Otherwise I think thx mode would be good.

I was more interested to see if you had the same issue in thx mode.

I'll test that out.

- DALE!
====================

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Old 03-05-2014, 12:28 PM
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Hi.is there any one on here could give me a good answer to this.i have a Panasonic st50,saved for a while and was gona get the zt60,tho is is much better pq?and with all these 4k tvs comeing out should I wait and get one if them?iv seen 4k and looks amazing tho theres nathing to watch in 4k at the min but it will be future proof .thanks
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:38 PM
 
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MUCH better? Probably not. Marginally to noticeably better? Probably. Worth an upgrade from an ST60, I'm not so sure. The price you'll pay is significant.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:41 PM
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^^ I would think from an st50 it would be good upgrade. Maybe not so much from an st60.
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Old 03-05-2014, 12:43 PM
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The video link above has the movies linked to cinemasquid which averages out all the scores from numerous well-regarded sites.

For example, Inception has over 20 professional reviews with a weighted Video Score of "93".

My bad, but I still recommend Ralph's lists. He does a great job with his reviews.

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