Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 408 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #12211 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
Member
 
grilodan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Everyday I'm still wowed by this TV, even after 1,000 hours and 6 months.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (133.8 KB, 29 views)
Sonyboy and ChadThunder like this.
grilodan is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12212 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 12:18 PM
Member
 
RoyMacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rye East Sussex UK
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by grilodan View Post
Everyday I'm still wowed by this TV, even after 1,000 hours and 6 months.

Me too, awesome picture quality.
Sonyboy likes this.
RoyMacDonald is offline  
post #12213 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 01:23 PM
Senior Member
 
music_to_my_ear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 471
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Liked: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadThunder View Post
I won't speak for ZT60 owners but on my PF30's the only time I use black extender is

1) watching sports with uniform green or whatever colored field and minimal shadow details, eg world cup football
2) in heavy ambient light, if the shadow details are being lost to ambient light you can afford to throw them out for a little extra boost

In casual viewing its ok, it does hurt gradations and probably should never be used with 16-235 output so use your judgment and always put it back for movies
What's a pf30?
music_to_my_ear is offline  
post #12214 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 01:36 PM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Panasonic professional plasma 42PF30 and 50PF30

I am posting on one right now it is my main monitor and the other bigger one is for movies
ChadThunder is online now  
post #12215 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM
Member
 
kennyboy2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Yorktown, VA
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Smile IR

Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Just a heads up hands on word of advice........ my IR didn't happen until about 1300 hours. Being well over 1000 hours with no IR, I think I got complacent thinking I was so far past break-in I was out of the woods and had nothing to worry about, especially since my Kuro never gave me a moments issue with IR. Be careful with station logos, my IR happened from only 4 or 5 hours a night of watching the Velocity channel. It's their crappy "V" channel logo that is not 100% opaque ...... the tips are a solid silver/white and that is what burned into my set. After hundreds of hours of screen wipe and pixel flipper plus a few hundred more of regular viewing, it is about 90% gone. I can still see a faint outline on light colored solid screen material. I honestly don't know if this last 10% will fade or not...... it seems to have leveled off at this point and isn't fading any more.

John
After having experienced burn-in on my VT25 that faded but never disappeared, I went through great pains to avoid a repeat performance on my ZT60. During break-in, I avoided programming with static images as much as possible. When I did watch programming with static images like my local news station, I changed the aspect ratio every 10 to 15 minutes. Still, I ended up with a station logo that still has not completely faded after four plus months. The IR occurred while I was still in the return window but there were no more ZT60s to be had. So I kept the set. I still marvel at the quality of the picture, especially with Darbee processing. I think the ZT60 rivals if not beats my Pioneer Pro 111, which is exceptionally resistant to IR BTW. Too bad that Panasonic could not conquer IR in their last, best plasma set. Oh well. I guess nothing is perfect. All in all, in spite of the IR which I try (not always successfully) to ignore, I am glad I bought the ZT60. And after about a month, I became accustomed to the fan noise.

Last edited by kennyboy2; Yesterday at 02:05 PM. Reason: Typo
kennyboy2 is offline  
post #12216 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 02:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
^^ It seems really easy to get IR from the directv dvr navigation bar that appears near the bottom of my set when fast forwarding, pausing, reversing. Similar with some other static screen content near the bottom (TNT logo, for example). Just takes a minute or two. Turns into a garbled (somewhat colorful) white-noisy hash, visible on very light screens that stretch to the left hand side of my screen (black bars on the sides and no hash, regardless of content). But at least for now it does seem to go away after a bit, perhaps sometimes with the help of running screen wipe for a while.

(I'm not so sure about the directv logo that appears in the upper right area, it seems to be more persistent, but does not turn into a garbled hash, so I hardly ever notice whether it's even there or not. When I do look I do tend to see it, but it's very light.)
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12217 of 12240 Old Yesterday, 03:11 PM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by kennyboy2 View Post
After having experienced burn-in on my VT25 that faded but never disappeared, I went through great pains to avoid a repeat performance on my ZT60. During break-in, I avoided programming with static images as much as possible. When I did watch programming with static images like my local news station, I changed the aspect ratio every 10 to 15 minutes. Still, I ended up with a station logo that still has not completely faded after four plus months. The IR occurred while I was still in the return window but there were no more ZT60s to be had. So I kept the set. I still marvel at the quality of the picture, especially with Darbee processing. I think the ZT60 rivals if not beats my Pioneer Pro 111, which is exceptionally resistant to IR BTW. Too bad that Panasonic could not conquer IR in their last, best plasma set. Oh well. I guess nothing is perfect. All in all, in spite of the IR which I try (not always successfully) to ignore, I am glad I bought the ZT60. And after about a month, I became accustomed to the fan noise.
I'm still happy that I bought mine..... and a little bit unhappy with myself that I wasn't more careful about leaving it on the Velocity Channel to cause my IR. My Kuro is exceptionally resistant to IR as well .............. I think that contributed to my lax attitude after over a 1000 hours on the ZT60 with leaving it on the V channel for so many hours at a time, day after day. I now pay a lot more attention to the "type" of channel logo employed by the various stations. HGTV for example, has a TV friendly logo........ a light white/grey that is totally opaque...... has a nice transparency to it. AMC is also similar. It's the stations with colored logos or logos that have solid mass to them that I now avoid like the plague. I can get IR very quickly from static menu items for example, but those that occur that quickly also go away just as fast with a quick screen wipe. The solid channel logos retained from hours of watching day after day..... not so lucky.
antennahead is offline  
post #12218 of 12240 Old Today, 03:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
I know the ZT60 is capable of approx 30,000 shades of black. Could this feature enable the shades of gradations? THe higher the settings the more gradations?
Hi, this is a huge marketing failure, Black has no Shades, it's Black, Reference Black has RGB Triplet 16.16.16 in 8bit Video Range signal.

As we know Blu-Ray has 8-bit color depth and it's using signal in TV Legal (Video Range) (16-235) for bluray movies content.

Levels 0 and 255 are not used in image transmission... they used for other reasons.

So the image is 1-254, from these levels 1-15 are not used (are below black) and 16 is the reference black. For the 235-254 you can have image
information about these levels encoded but they are not used either in movie content.

Blu-Ray Mastering / post production studios working the bluray content to 16-235, they have RGB Histograms, vectorscopes, out of range indicators, autolimiters, so they have real-time checking/controling for the content to be inside 16-235 range....but during the mastering, the use RGB Space, later after the color correction work to rec.709 the contect it's converted to YCC 4:2:0 for the bluray disk and when you playback the movie the player is converting the signal from YCC 4:2:0 -> YCC 4:2:2 or YCC 4:4:4 or RGB-Video and when it enters to your display its converted again until it re-converted at the final stage to RGB to go to the panel.

So after all these conversion, add the rounding errors, add player inaccurancies, add player problems to conversions..... maybe the 235 will go to 236 or 237 or 238.

So lets say that you have data encoded using 16-235 levels, this means you have 220 grayscale shades from 0% Black -100% White in 8-bit signal., 880 shades in 10bit signal, 3520 shades in 12bit signal, 14080 shades in 14bit signal, 56320 shades in 16bit signal.....but all these are grayscale shades available for the full 0-100%. (and content of commercial movie at 10/12/14-bit depth doesn't exist in any consumer format)

We can say that the Shadow detail exist between of about 0-5% Gray so this means that it's from 16 till 27 which is 12 shades..... if you calculate all the possible R+G+B Color Channel combinations that can be available to a 8-bit signal you get 1728 possible colors (not shades)....

For example if you want to check if your display can reproduce these shades of gray (254 levels)....load a Grayscale Ramp Pattern like the one below, and check if you can identify any of the 254 different gray bars of that ramp....if you can't identify any bar then your display can reproduce 254 different steps....if it's not smooth...that means is that you can't see 254 and can only reproduce less steps.

So no panel can't reproduce these 30.000 shades....



Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5

Last edited by ConnecTEDDD; Today at 06:40 AM.
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #12219 of 12240 Old Today, 04:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Audiodork's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Siesta Key, Florida
Posts: 2,439
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
I'm still happy that I bought mine..... and a little bit unhappy with myself that I wasn't more careful about leaving it on the Velocity Channel to cause my IR. My Kuro is exceptionally resistant to IR as well .............. I think that contributed to my lax attitude after over a 1000 hours on the ZT60 with leaving it on the V channel for so many hours at a time, day after day. I now pay a lot more attention to the "type" of channel logo employed by the various stations. HGTV for example, has a TV friendly logo........ a light white/grey that is totally opaque...... has a nice transparency to it. AMC is also similar. It's the stations with colored logos or logos that have solid mass to them that I now avoid like the plague. I can get IR very quickly from static menu items for example, but those that occur that quickly also go away just as fast with a quick screen wipe. The solid channel logos retained from hours of watching day after day..... not so lucky.

Hello,
Knocking on wood (literally) while writing this, it is so bizarre just how little rhyme or reason there seems to be in respect to panel to panel susceptibility to IR/Burn In.

I literally watch Velocity sometimes 8 hrs a day (very much to the chagrin of the Mrs.) and so far IR free. I am using the Xshiteity X1 as opposed to Direc FWIW.

I too was most gentle for the first 200 hours and not until the past month or two have actually just used the bloody thing. I had become so paranoid that it honestly obscured the reason for getting it in the first place.

I hope the IR subsides quickly on yours. These are such stunning displays.
Best,
AD

Radio Shack SPL Meter Owner
Audiodork is offline  
post #12220 of 12240 Old Today, 06:10 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiodork View Post
Hello,
Knocking on wood (literally) while writing this, it is so bizarre just how little rhyme or reason there seems to be in respect to panel to panel susceptibility to IR/Burn In.

I literally watch Velocity sometimes 8 hrs a day (very much to the chagrin of the Mrs.) and so far IR free. I am using the Xshiteity X1 as opposed to Direc FWIW.

I too was most gentle for the first 200 hours and not until the past month or two have actually just used the bloody thing. I had become so paranoid that it honestly obscured the reason for getting it in the first place.

I hope the IR subsides quickly on yours. These are such stunning displays.
Best,
AD
I assumed based on your avatar that you might be sympathetic to my Velocity channel dilemma
You mentioned being gentle for the first 200 hours then only in the last month or two usuing it normally. I was very careful as well, then went to normal use, and between approximately 200 to 1200 hours had no issues. It was after I reached that many hours that the IR showed up. I had heard of this from other members, but honestly shrugged it off as an anomaly. It just didn't fit conventional thinking that it would be fine past break-in for that many hours THEN develop an IR issue.......... WRONG I can say that after the Velocity incident, by avoiding prolonged daily viewing of the channels with solid logos, I have avoided any other IR incidents. I also run the screen wipe about once a week for good measure, as well as the pixel flipper. My image retained "V" has faded so much now that you have to really look hard for it on a solid light colored background to see it. I'm hoping over time as the phosphors continue to age that the set becomes less and less prone to IR. It is still the best picture available IMO.
antennahead is offline  
post #12221 of 12240 Old Today, 07:14 AM
Senior Member
 
ChadThunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 219
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Hi, this is a huge marketing failure, Black has no Shades, it's Black, Reference Black has RGB Triplet 16.16.16 in 8bit Video Range signal.

As we know Blu-Ray has 8-bit color depth and it's using signal in TV Legal (Video Range) (16-235) for bluray movies content.

...content removed....

So no panel can't reproduce these 30.000 shades....
I think it relates in some way to how many discrete luminance levels can be reproduced at every APL (not in one single frame), this stuff is really complicated and maybe a little over engineered for my liking but it is a noticable improvement and the driving hardware is different between models.

If you want the smoothest gradation you need to be in Cinema or Professional mode, have Contrast set appropriately high and expand(interpolate) 16-235 content to 0-255 with your video processor, there is also talk about panel brightness having a significant affect on the number of gradations but I don't know about that personally.

What do you think about debanding ConnecTEDDD? is it necessary with only 256 steps or is that an exaggeration
ChadThunder is online now  
post #12222 of 12240 Old Today, 07:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ChrisFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,354
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 15
I was fairly worried about burn in but the first day or so after we set it up my entire family came down with what I call "death flu" for a week. Kids literally watched Cartoon Network (black/white peak contrast logo) and other stupid as all hell logos and bars for days at a time. I'd wander down and make them change it or stretch a movie they were watching so not to get black bars as often as I could but at the end of the day the display was flat out abused. I figured God was trying to smite my brand new display. No issues except that a month in I had a bit of IR from a logo, Cartoon Network, which screen wiped off overnight (I was a bit panicked).

Today I'm still not stupid with it but we'll game on it for hours at a time, watch whatever logos. No problems. I've run a screen wipe 1-2 more times for the heck of it. I've used THX Theater settings from day 1.

I really empathize with you guys because I figured I was destined to get it but this really seems a panel to panel issue. Not sure why it hits some so hard.

Display:    Panasonic 65" VT60

AVR:        Marantz 6005

Speakers: Kef Q towers/rears Kef Reference center

HTPC:       Win 7 Pro with XBMC

Xbox Live: Arbitrage XXL

ChrisFB is offline  
post #12223 of 12240 Old Today, 07:57 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFB View Post
I was fairly worried about burn in but the first day or so after we set it up my entire family came down with what I call "death flu" for a week. Kids literally watched Cartoon Network (black/white peak contrast logo) and other stupid as all hell logos and bars for days at a time. I'd wander down and make them change it or stretch a movie they were watching so not to get black bars as often as I could but at the end of the day the display was flat out abused. I figured God was trying to smite my brand new display. No issues except that a month in I had a bit of IR from a logo, Cartoon Network, which screen wiped off overnight (I was a bit panicked).

Today I'm still not stupid with it but we'll game on it for hours at a time, watch whatever logos. No problems. I've run a screen wipe 1-2 more times for the heck of it. I've used THX Theater settings from day 1.

I really empathize with you guys because I figured I was destined to get it but this really seems a panel to panel issue. Not sure why it hits some so hard.
Nice to see another owner with no serious IR issues. I too use the THX Cinema setting. I think this IR issue must vary somewhat from panel to panel. Also in my case, I must admit that the Velocity channel was on almost daily....... so how long did it take for my IR to develop? Days? Weeks? Who knows.
antennahead is offline  
post #12224 of 12240 Old Today, 08:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
repete66211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 197
I know I've said this a few time already, but your contrast level may affect IR susceptibility on your TV. My TV was calibrated with contrast at 100 but I experienced some IR from gaming. I checked the gray scale on the WoW disc and discovered there is no difference registered between 70 and 100, so down to 70 it went. My use has always varied so there's no control in place to determine whether this had any effect on perceived IR, but I haven't experienced anything but very brief IR ever since. Naturally, YMMV, but if you're experiencing IR you may want to consider lowering the contrast if you haven't already.


Last edited by repete66211; Today at 08:56 AM.
repete66211 is offline  
post #12225 of 12240 Old Today, 08:50 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Contrast level may affect IR susceptibility as well. My TV was calibrated with contrast at 100 but I experienced some IR from gaming. I checked the gray scale on the WoW disc and discovered there is no difference registered between 70 and 100, so down to 70 it went. My use has always varied so there's no control in place to determine whether this had any effect on perceived IR, but I haven't experienced anything but very brief IR ever since. Naturally, YMMV, but if you're experiencing IR you may want to consider lowering the contrast.
Yep, I watch in a light controlled dim environment, so my contrast is not cranked at all. I set mine up with the Spears & Munsil and Wow disc also.
antennahead is offline  
post #12226 of 12240 Old Today, 08:55 AM
AVS Special Member
 
repete66211's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Kansas City area
Posts: 1,508
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Liked: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Yep, I watch in a light controlled dim environment, so my contrast is not cranked at all. I set mine up with the Spears & Munsil and Wow disc also.
Understood. My TV calibrated to 32FL with contrast at 100. I know Chad (and perhaps others) have managed to get more out of the ZT but 32FL isn't exactly torch mode, even in a dim room.

repete66211 is offline  
post #12227 of 12240 Old Today, 09:21 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Watching more Netflix has returned to some degree the lower screen discoloration/IR that was prevalent on my ZT60 where the nav bar is displayed, even after 250 hours of pixel flipping, sliding, and screen wiping. What's more irritating is I have now installed the Roku stick on the Oppo, which uses an older version of Netflix that utilizes a visibly smaller nav bar that vanishes from the screen in 5 seconds or less after pause (or playback after pausing, fast-forwarding or rewinding) is engaged (a screensaver engages 5 minutes after pausing, but the main problem is from the nav bar...not from the random on-screen Netflix content during that 5-minute span). I have contrast at 80 and might as well dip it to 70, but I'm beginning to think that area of the screen is phosphorescently cooked in.

Last edited by vinnie_RIP; Today at 09:25 AM.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #12228 of 12240 Old Today, 09:33 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Understood. My TV calibrated to 32FL with contrast at 100. I know Chad (and perhaps others) have managed to get more out of the ZT but 32FL isn't exactly torch mode, even in a dim room.
One thing I also found interesting about these sets. The pre-set options are not always "apples to apples" contrast wise, as I think they may not use the same "panel brightness" setting (hi, mid, and low available on the adjustable modes, custom and cinema, under pro settings). I like the Home Theater preset for Blu ray movies in my dark night time movie environment...... has a very film-like appearance. I found that this setting, which untouched has a contrast of 100, was not as bright as the THX Cinema setting with contrast at 60 (which I use for DirecTV daytime viewing, adjusted down from the factory setting to "50"). I am of the opinion the THX Cinema setting most likely is preset at the "mid" panel brightness option while the Home Theater setting is preset at the "low" panel brightness option.......... that's the only way that 100 contrast setting is less bright than the 60 setting........ the brightness control is factory set at "0" on both of those settings. Even with the THX Cinema contrast cut down to 50, it is still slightly brighter than the Home Theater setting at 100.
antennahead is offline  
post #12229 of 12240 Old Today, 09:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Watching more Netflix has returned to some degree the lower screen discoloration/IR that was prevalent on my ZT60 where the nav bar is displayed, even after 250 hours of pixel flipping, sliding, and screen wiping. What's more irritating is I have now installed the Roku stick on the Oppo, which uses an older version of Netflix that utilizes a visibly smaller nav bar that vanishes from the screen in 5 seconds or less after pause (or playback after pausing, fast-forwarding or rewinding) is engaged (a screensaver engages 5 minutes after pausing, but the main problem is from the nav bar...not from the random on-screen Netflix content during that 5-minute span). I have contrast at 80 and might as well dip it to 70, but I'm beginning to think that area of the screen is phosphorescently cooked in.
This is why I refuse to watch anymore Velocity channel on this TV. I have the "V" IR almost gone, just barely visible if you know it's there and where to look. I'm scared if I go back to that channel for any length of time I'll bring back the IR quickly
antennahead is offline  
post #12230 of 12240 Old Today, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
ConnecTEDDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 2,099
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChadThunder View Post
I think it relates in some way to how many discrete luminance levels can be reproduced at every APL (not in one single frame), this stuff is really complicated and maybe a little over engineered for my liking but it is a noticable improvement and the driving hardware is different between models.

If you want the smoothest gradation you need to be in Cinema or Professional mode, have Contrast set appropriately high and expand(interpolate) 16-235 content to 0-255 with your video processor, there is also talk about panel brightness having a significant affect on the number of gradations but I don't know about that personally.

What do you think about debanding ConnecTEDDD? is it necessary with only 256 steps or is that an exaggeration
No, just Panasonic marketing division; like all companies are doing, each year they are finding tricks to present each set features.

Before some years they were using the billions of contrast ratio for example.

That what matters is how the display performs using calibration disks or pattern generators... the output to our eyes is that it counts... 30.000 shades means nothing if you can't see an ultra smooth simple grayscale ramp which has only a few steps. (237 levels, from 16-254).
vinnie_RIP likes this.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS + CalMAN ColorChecker
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, CalPC, ControlCAL
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
ConnecTEDDD is offline  
post #12231 of 12240 Old Today, 10:06 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
This is why I refuse to watch anymore Velocity channel on this TV. I have the "V" IR almost gone, just barely visible if you know it's there and where to look. I'm scared if I go back to that channel for any length of time I'll bring back the IR quickly
Yes, though that's only one channel of content (granted you watched it quite extensively). I'm thinking any streaming service would similarly afflict that problem area now (even playing a Blu-ray would do it when employing navigation, though I can use the Oppo to send a blank screen to the panel before using it...I could also do the same with the Roku that is connected to the Oppo, which I'll probably start employing today). As much as streaming fails to push this display to its visual limits, it has become an affordable way to procure quite a bit of content.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #12232 of 12240 Old Today, 10:07 AM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Watching more Netflix has returned to some degree the lower screen discoloration/IR that was prevalent on my ZT60 where the nav bar is displayed, even after 250 hours of pixel flipping, sliding, and screen wiping. What's more irritating is I have now installed the Roku stick on the Oppo, which uses an older version of Netflix that utilizes a visibly smaller nav bar that vanishes from the screen in 5 seconds or less after pause (or playback after pausing, fast-forwarding or rewinding) is engaged (a screensaver engages 5 minutes after pausing, but the main problem is from the nav bar...not from the random on-screen Netflix content during that 5-minute span). I have contrast at 80 and might as well dip it to 70, but I'm beginning to think that area of the screen is phosphorescently cooked in.
Think this must be similar to what I wrote above, but for me probably mostly due to directv.
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12233 of 12240 Old Today, 10:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
One thing I also found interesting about these sets. The pre-set options are not always "apples to apples" contrast wise, as I think they may not use the same "panel brightness" setting (hi, mid, and low available on the adjustable modes, custom and cinema, under pro settings). I like the Home Theater preset for Blu ray movies in my dark night time movie environment...... has a very film-like appearance. I found that this setting, which untouched has a contrast of 100, was not as bright as the THX Cinema setting with contrast at 60 (which I use for DirecTV daytime viewing, adjusted down from the factory setting to "50"). I am of the opinion the THX Cinema setting most likely is preset at the "mid" panel brightness option while the Home Theater setting is preset at the "low" panel brightness option.......... that's the only way that 100 contrast setting is less bright than the 60 setting........ the brightness control is factory set at "0" on both of those settings. Even with the THX Cinema contrast cut down to 50, it is still slightly brighter than the Home Theater setting at 100.
THX Cinema here too, contrast down to 44. But using Normal Color temp. Pretty intensive white, which I think promotes IR. Tried Warm 1 the other day, but didn't seem to make difference with IR (and the colors seemed to be a bit off though I'm probably just used to Normal (has the cleanest grey scale (per eyeballing on S&M disc)).
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12234 of 12240 Old Today, 10:14 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Think this must be similar to what I wrote above, but for me probably mostly due to directv.
Yes, quite likely. Evidence of some rather serious shortcuts taken by Engineering after all the years they've made plasmas, IMO.

I just realized the buffering bar that loads for mere seconds before the content is also in the same area of discoloration, and closed captioning boxes in that same region may be exacerbating it also. There's no cure for deafness, so I can't disable that for the primary viewer (not myself).
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #12235 of 12240 Old Today, 10:32 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
Yes, though that's only one channel of content (granted you watched it quite extensively). I'm thinking any streaming service would similarly afflict that problem area now (even playing a Blu-ray would do it when employing navigation, though I can use the Oppo to send a blank screen to the panel before using it...I could also do the same with the Roku that is connected to the Oppo, which I'll probably start employing today). As much as streaming fails to push this display to its visual limits, it has become an affordable way to procure quite a bit of content.
In all fairness to the TV, My OPPO options and other static content usually do ZERO damage to the set. I even accidentally left a Blu ray menu on the screen for about an hour that caused IR........ it was gone with 5 minutes of screen wipe. My V channel IR was brought on by days, if not weeks or months of continuous car show viewing Lesson learned
antennahead is offline  
post #12236 of 12240 Old Today, 10:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
THX Cinema here too, contrast down to 44. But using Normal Color temp. Pretty intensive white, which I think promotes IR. Tried Warm 1 the other day, but didn't seem to make difference with IR (and the colors seemed to be a bit off though I'm probably just used to Normal (has the cleanest grey scale (per eyeballing on S&M disc)).
I've flip flopped between normal and Warm 1, back on warm 1 now. I wish we had choice between normal and warm 1....... between the two would most likely be my choice Normal looks just a tad too blue, with warm 1 just a hair too yellow. YMMV
antennahead is offline  
post #12237 of 12240 Old Today, 10:43 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
In all fairness to the TV, My OPPO options and other static content usually do ZERO damage to the set. I even accidentally left a Blu ray menu on the screen for about an hour that caused IR........ it was gone with 5 minutes of screen wipe. My V channel IR was brought on by days, if not weeks or months of continuous car show viewing Lesson learned
The thing is, what I have was not wrought by a long-term presence of a logo but with a navigation bar previously, left on the screen at most for perhaps 5 minutes at most at any given instance. I think the lesson I'm receiving is to unfortunately dump the ZT at a significant loss since this has become so bothersome. I was hoping I'd be out of the woods after that 250-hour pixel exercising span, but it's returned in a way that is more significant than I expected, which leads me to believe the captions might be exacerbating the problem area, and it can't be solely due to these tiny buffer and navigation bars that are only on-screen for minutes if not seconds at a time.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #12238 of 12240 Old Today, 12:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
antennahead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 725
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
The thing is, what I have was not wrought by a long-term presence of a logo but with a navigation bar previously, left on the screen at most for perhaps 5 minutes at most at any given instance. I think the lesson I'm receiving is to unfortunately dump the ZT at a significant loss since this has become so bothersome. I was hoping I'd be out of the woods after that 250-hour pixel exercising span, but it's returned in a way that is more significant than I expected, which leads me to believe the captions might be exacerbating the problem area, and it can't be solely due to these tiny buffer and navigation bars that are only on-screen for minutes if not seconds at a time.
That sadly might be your best option. I agree with others here that the propensity to have IR issues seems to vary from set to set...... some get one that is trouble free, others seem to have more issues without vastly different viewing habits.
antennahead is offline  
post #12239 of 12240 Old Today, 12:30 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 23
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 6
This makes me sad...there's nothing on the market in the same size that provides PQ in the same tier, but hopefully that's short-lived.
vinnie_RIP is offline  
post #12240 of 12240 Old Today, 12:31 PM
Senior Member
 
5x10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 238
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked: 41
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie_RIP View Post
This makes me sad...there's nothing on the market in the same size that provides PQ in the same tier, but hopefully that's short-lived.
first plague and his oled and now this!
5x10 is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off