Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 413 - AVS Forum
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post #12361 of 12984 Old 07-21-2014, 07:35 PM
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Disney WOW and aging the panel?

Sorry, posted in wrong thread.

Last edited by HLdan; 07-21-2014 at 07:39 PM.
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post #12362 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
looking @ d-nice new settings for the ZT60 see below - he list the "color gamut" as normal yet in the ZT menu it has "native" - confused - any suggestion or should we leave it @ rec.709???

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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
I've never seen a reason to have it anything other than 709.
Neither have I but was just curious about the change - in the old D-Nice ZT settings it was "709" now 'Normal" also color temp changed from "warm 2" to "Normal" along with some other changes. I prefer the new settings for my ZT but I also do not have the most "educated eye" - But HEY - WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY!

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post #12363 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 05:34 AM
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The change is interesting. I'd be curious to know what D-Nice saw to justify it. I don't have equipment to measure the difference between the two settings, but when you read the description provided for "Native" it sounds like the kind of thing you normally wish to avoid.

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post #12364 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Neither have I but was just curious about the change - in the old D-Nice ZT settings it was "709" now 'Normal" also color temp changed from "warm 2" to "Normal" along with some other changes. I prefer the new settings for my ZT but I also do not have the most "educated eye" - But HEY - WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY!
Fwiw, I've been running color temp at "Normal" for a while, using THX Theater, based on eyeballing greyscale from spears & munsil calibration disc. Got rid of color tinges was seeing at warm 1 and warm 2 (and whatever their opposites are). Also may have bumped up my IR... but colors seem righter.
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post #12365 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Neither have I but was just curious about the change - in the old D-Nice ZT settings it was "709" now 'Normal" also color temp changed from "warm 2" to "Normal" along with some other changes. I prefer the new settings for my ZT but I also do not have the most "educated eye" - But HEY - WHATEVER MAKES YOU HAPPY!
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Fwiw, I've been running color temp at "Normal" for a while, using THX Theater, based on eyeballing greyscale from spears & munsil calibration disc. Got rid of color tinges was seeing at warm 1 and warm 2 (and whatever their opposites are). Also may have bumped up my IR... but colors seem righter.
I have seen the same effect using the "normal" setting - a minor but observable change and improvement - I have D-Nice old/new in professional 1&2 and CNET settings in Cinema - best is D-Nice New by a long-shot (small improvements add up)

ZT is the best HDTV ever made!

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post #12366 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 08:35 AM
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Rest assured, the IR will go away, but it can take months and months.


I have a 65VT30 and a 65ZT60 .. the VT30 had a CNN logo for 9 months of 16:9 viewing until it finally went away, and I developed it after watching a well broken in panel for 12 hours on CNN ... Also those pixel flippers and screen wipes do nothing -- at least they did nothing for my sets -- I ran them 24/7 for days and days -- no change at all. God bless people that swear by them, they did NOTHING for me.


After 4 hours of cnn viewing on the ZT, IR developed for the logo.. and it took 2 days to completely go away.


The 9 months on the VT30 was very frustrating, but once it went away as everyone told me it would (and I didn't believe them) -- I now don't care, I know that IR just goes away after some time, and you'll have to deal with it while it is still present


Definitely have to be careful what you watch on these sets
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post #12367 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 10:00 AM
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I've been looking at some floor model ZT60's. The sets I've looked at, or set at this point, had a lot of IR. Perhaps that should not be a concern if the price is right.
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post #12368 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Rest assured, the IR will go away, but it can take months and months.


I have a 65VT30 and a 65ZT60 .. the VT30 had a CNN logo for 9 months of 16:9 viewing until it finally went away, and I developed it after watching a well broken in panel for 12 hours on CNN ... Also those pixel flippers and screen wipes do nothing -- at least they did nothing for my sets -- I ran them 24/7 for days and days -- no change at all. God bless people that swear by them, they did NOTHING for me.


After 4 hours of cnn viewing on the ZT, IR developed for the logo.. and it took 2 days to completely go away.


The 9 months on the VT30 was very frustrating, but once it went away as everyone told me it would (and I didn't believe them) -- I now don't care, I know that IR just goes away after some time, and you'll have to deal with it while it is still present


Definitely have to be careful what you watch on these sets
What is truly amazing is how some folks have this problem and some don't - watch all the bad things ESPN. Bloomberg, NFL, MLB, etc. and absolutely nothing from day one - occasionally I run the screen swipe so I don't feel left out

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post #12369 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
Rest assured, the IR will go away, but it can take months and months.


I have a 65VT30 and a 65ZT60 .. the VT30 had a CNN logo for 9 months of 16:9 viewing until it finally went away, and I developed it after watching a well broken in panel for 12 hours on CNN ... Also those pixel flippers and screen wipes do nothing -- at least they did nothing for my sets -- I ran them 24/7 for days and days -- no change at all. God bless people that swear by them, they did NOTHING for me.


After 4 hours of cnn viewing on the ZT, IR developed for the logo.. and it took 2 days to completely go away.


The 9 months on the VT30 was very frustrating, but once it went away as everyone told me it would (and I didn't believe them) -- I now don't care, I know that IR just goes away after some time, and you'll have to deal with it while it is still present


Definitely have to be careful what you watch on these sets
i have the 65vt30 with the ID logo in the lower right hand corner and it wont be going away as my wife always watches that channel
im guessing IR is just how the panel ages, the more it ages without the logo, the less noticable it will be
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post #12370 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
What is truly amazing is how some folks have this problem and some don't - watch all the bad things ESPN. Bloomberg, NFL, MLB, etc. and absolutely nothing from day one - occasionally I run the screen swipe so I don't feel left out

some people can discern the very subtle IR and some just cannot. Perhaps these panels are all identical and peoples' subjective interpretations are varying here.


I've pointed out to buddies their IR (much to their dismay, ignorance is bliss) when they swore there was none.
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post #12371 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 12:04 PM
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some people can discern the very subtle IR and some just cannot. Perhaps these panels are all identical and peoples' subjective interpretations are varying here.
Indeed. Add to that the fact that there are tens, hundreds, thousands of variables that aren't controlled for and it's difficult to reach any definitive conclusion regarding the ZT's predisposition toward IR.

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post #12372 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
some people can discern the very subtle IR and some just cannot. Perhaps these panels are all identical and peoples' subjective interpretations are varying here.


I've pointed out to buddies their IR (much to their dismay, ignorance is bliss) when they swore there was none.
that's how i see it too, all the panels are going to have it to one degree or another; there's people that see it and no matter which panel they end up with, they are still going to see it. Similarly, there's some notable so called videophiles in the LCD areas claiming they can't see the uniformity issues and vertical banding on their lcd sets and those in the stores so it must be a small subset of owners that have the 'issue'. Its there, just like IR is there, its just a matter of whether you see it or need to go looking for it. I as a rule will never point it out to my family and friends, even when they are asking for it with comments like "why would you buy a plasma in 2012?". Ironically, when they are over at my house they feel like the image is more 'cinema' like than they are used to
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post #12373 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by PeterUbers View Post
some people can discern the very subtle IR and some just cannot. Perhaps these panels are all identical and peoples' subjective interpretations are varying here.


I've pointed out to buddies their IR (much to their dismay, ignorance is bliss) when they swore there was none.
I've not experience any troublesome IR on my ZT. When breaking my set in, I watched the NFL playoffs for hours and not one hint of image retention. If I had put slides on, probably would have seen some. But I just watched varied content and no issues. I wonder if there are slight voltage differences that causes IR problems on some of these sets.
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post #12374 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 06:15 PM
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I'm moving and might have to mount the 65inch on a brick wall. I'd like a full motion mount that will extend up to 20 inches or so. What would you recommend? Sanus? Any particular model? Are all the mounts Sanus claims to be compatible with the TC-P65ZT60 actually compatible?

Any recommendations other than Sanus?

Thanks!
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post #12375 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 08:10 PM
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300 via Bluray on the ZT60= Visually Stunning!! I love watching Blurays on this baby. If only I got the 65 inch.
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post #12376 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 08:18 PM
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300 via Bluray on the ZT60= Visually Stunning!! I love watching Blurays on this baby. If only I got the 65 inch.
Pixel envy







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post #12377 of 12984 Old 07-22-2014, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by scott brown View Post
I'm moving and might have to mount the 65inch on a brick wall. I'd like a full motion mount that will extend up to 20 inches or so. What would you recommend? Sanus? Any particular model? Are all the mounts Sanus claims to be compatible with the TC-P65ZT60 actually compatible?

Any recommendations other than Sanus?

Thanks!
I prefer Sanus mounts for large or heavy TVs. Great mounts.

How do you plan to attach the mount to the brick wall? Mounting a heavier TV to a brick wall requires more work to make sure the brick wall can carry the weight of the TV plus the mount. I had to mounted a 130lb. plasma to a brick wall once. When I mounted mine, I took a piece of furniture grade plywood and cut it to be slightly larger than the mount plate plus be able to covering at least two studs. I painted the plywood as same color of the brick so it would blend in. I attached the plywood to the brick via 1/4 (or maybe 3/8") Red Head bolts. I also drilled through the brick to attach to two studs with Tapcon screws. I then attached the mounting plate to the plywood with about 8 wood screws. I tested the loading carrying ability by hanging my weight off the plywood with a chain attached to the mounting plate. Worked perfectly. I usually use a similar system when mounting a TV to studs under drywall if a heavy TV. Never had one move on me. Very solid.

Good luck.

Last edited by eaayoung; 07-22-2014 at 08:54 PM.
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post #12378 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Fwiw, I've been running color temp at "Normal" for a while, using THX Theater, based on eyeballing greyscale from spears & munsil calibration disc. Got rid of color tinges was seeing at warm 1 and warm 2 (and whatever their opposites are). Also may have bumped up my IR... but colors seem righter.
You can't eyeball greyscale. its impossible for a human to do it. D-nice has said this many many times ( I'm guessing he tried to do it himself and couldn't get anything out of it by eye )

A meter is a must to get any positive adjustment of the greyscale otherwise you can't see what ur adjusting good or bad
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post #12379 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 12:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
I've not experience any troublesome IR on my ZT. When breaking my set in, I watched the NFL playoffs for hours and not one hint of image retention. If I had put slides on, probably would have seen some. But I just watched varied content and no issues. I wonder if there are slight voltage differences that causes IR problems on some of these sets.
I agree. I think voltages may have been set higher than normal causing IR to be more prone on the 2013 sets. Probably the best guess I've read on this forum of why IR is soo common on 2013

Also, my set before it hit 1500 hours was very very resistant to IR for any content....now its nearing 1600 hours and I can make out IR from just the menu after I switch to a white slide but it fades away after content is displayed. Im guessing at 1500 hours the voltage levels jumped keep up with aging phosphours or something...sorta like what happened with the VT25 black level rise when the word was some Panasonic engineer goofed on the voltage algorithm too early and too aggressively
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post #12380 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 12:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stile View Post
it was $4999 plus tax.. then i had to pay delivery and to have it mounted. that was the price at all the stores in toronto the whole time this model was on sale (for the 65" ZT60).
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too bad you could not have driven to Michigan.......1/3 of that cost( $USD) and available now



Warren
I paid $3999 and that was at cost from a friend who owned an AV store...for the 65zt60 btw.

I thought about driving to buffalo and picking up a delivered 65zt60 from frys at a holding office but the difficulty with warranty if anything went wrong and transporting a 65" tv was the deal breaker.
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post #12381 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
I prefer Sanus mounts for large or heavy TVs. Great mounts.

How do you plan to attach the mount to the brick wall? Mounting a heavier TV to a brick wall requires more work to make sure the brick wall can carry the weight of the TV plus the mount. I had to mounted a 130lb. plasma to a brick wall once. When I mounted mine, I took a piece of furniture grade plywood and cut it to be slightly larger than the mount plate plus be able to covering at least two studs. I painted the plywood as same color of the brick so it would blend in. I attached the plywood to the brick via 1/4 (or maybe 3/8&quot Red Head bolts. I also drilled through the brick to attach to two studs with Tapcon screws. I then attached the mounting plate to the plywood with about 8 wood screws. I tested the loading carrying ability by hanging my weight off the plywood with a chain attached to the mounting plate. Worked perfectly. I usually use a similar system when mounting a TV to studs under drywall if a heavy TV. Never had one move on me. Very solid.

Good luck.
I'm not sure yet. The brick wall is already holding a mirror at the other side of the room that weighs a ton, so I think it can carry the tv weight. Is there a particular Sanus model you'd recommend (I'm thinking about the XF228 but it may be overkill)? Thanks for the help.

Last edited by scott brown; 07-23-2014 at 05:33 AM.
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post #12382 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 07:12 AM
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Would you guys have any reservations about buying a ZT60 with obvious IR? I have looked at two floor model 65" ZT60's within the last few days. Both of them had obvious IR, which I guess could potentially be actual burn in. Is there any way to tell the difference?

The first set I looked at had 3250 hours, with IR down the left hand side and along the bottom. They were playing ESPNk, Fox Sports etc on Vivid. There was nothing distinctive about it, such as being able to make out an ESPN logo etc. It just seemed to be dark areas on the screen down the left and along the bottom. This set had been marked down on the floor to 1877, and the guy I spoke to did not think they would be willing to go lower.

The second set had approximately 2450 hours. All of the IR seemed to be along the bottom. This store did not have any kind of broadcast feed, so all of the televisions were sharing a blu-ray feed. Unfortunately, when the movie wasn't playing, there were big leaves across the bottom for Play, Pause etc. It was some kind of animated movie, think Disney, and the IR was very distinctive. You could clearly see the outline of the leaves, the words Play etc. Once I showed them that the set was "damaged", they seemed very willing to negotiate on price. I got them down to $1700 without even really trying.
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post #12383 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 07:15 AM
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Would you guys have any reservations about buying a ZT60 with obvious IR? I have looked at two floor model 65" ZT60's within the last few days. Both of them had obvious IR, which I guess could potentially be actual burn in. Is there any way to tell the difference?
Plasma + Floor Model + IR that might be BI = No way Jose.

Floor models are notoriously put on torch to compete as best as possible with the nearby LCDs. Don't risk it. I don't care what the warranty is.

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Unless, of course, it's to keep someone from creating a phone video in portrait mode, in which case it's a pretty good first step. Portrait mooks: KNOCK IT OFF.
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post #12384 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Would you guys have any reservations about buying a ZT60 with obvious IR? I have looked at two floor model 65" ZT60's within the last few days. Both of them had obvious IR, which I guess could potentially be actual burn in. Is there any way to tell the difference?

The first set I looked at had 3250 hours, with IR down the left hand side and along the bottom. They were playing ESPNk, Fox Sports etc on Vivid. There was nothing distinctive about it, such as being able to make out an ESPN logo etc. It just seemed to be dark areas on the screen down the left and along the bottom. This set had been marked down on the floor to 1877, and the guy I spoke to did not think they would be willing to go lower.

The second set had approximately 2450 hours. All of the IR seemed to be along the bottom. This store did not have any kind of broadcast feed, so all of the televisions were sharing a blu-ray feed. Unfortunately, when the movie wasn't playing, there were big leaves across the bottom for Play, Pause etc. It was some kind of animated movie, think Disney, and the IR was very distinctive. You could clearly see the outline of the leaves, the words Play etc. Once I showed them that the set was "damaged", they seemed very willing to negotiate on price. I got them down to $1700 without even really trying.
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Originally Posted by tgm1024 View Post
Plasma + Floor Model + IR that might be BI = No way Jose.

Floor models are notoriously put on torch to compete as best as possible with the nearby LCDs. Don't risk it. I don't care what the warranty is.
if you are REALLY interested in the TV

let the store know about your reservations

See if they will let if play for a day or so on a regular antenna feed

Go back...if the images are still there then its likely going to be permanent

There are lot of programs you can run that will help the situation when run on a Tv for 24 hours or so
At the end of the day..if there is doubt in your mind make your offer accordingly

Warren

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post #12385 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 07:52 AM
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Based upon what I've read, 24 hours would not be long enough to make a determination of whether it might eventually go away. Some people have had IR that did not go away for many months, and perhaps longer. I guess it all comes down to risk/reward, but I'm very interested in other opinions, particularly those who have experienced stubborn IR or image persistence.
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post #12386 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 11:22 AM
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Ask them to run the screen swipe for 24 hours and go back to see if it made any dent in the IR ........ if it looked 100% the same as before the swipe, I'd be hesitant. Not saying it wouldn't go away in time.... but that is a big gamble.
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post #12387 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
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Ask them to run the screen swipe for 24 hours and go back to see if it made any dent in the IR ........ if it looked 100% the same as before the swipe, I'd be hesitant. Not saying it wouldn't go away in time.... but that is a big gamble.
+1 Have them run wipe for 24+ hours and see if there's any improvement. You can always walk out the door with no tv!
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post #12388 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Ask them to run the screen swipe for 24 hours and go back to see if it made any dent in the IR ........ if it looked 100% the same as before the swipe, I'd be hesitant. Not saying it wouldn't go away in time.... but that is a big gamble.
I'll give that some thought. There seem to be many examples of IR lingering for months or longer and eventually going away. I guess one way to eliminate any risk would be to convince the retailer that the television is junkified and that I'm willing to haul it off for free.

For the most part, the IR is only visible under certain circumstances, primarily light backgrounds. I ran slides and the screen wiper, which helps to identify the existence of IR. 90+% of the time, I suspect you'll have an outstanding picture, even if the IR never went away and ended up being actual burn in.
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post #12389 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 01:57 PM
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If I could get a 65" ZT60 for $1,700 I'd take my chances with the IR, especially if they threw in a warranty or some extras.

It still amazes me that in this day and age TV stores don't take better care of their floor models. I mean, everyone knows about IR. How can a manager not make the effort to ensure 16:9 content is run on all TVs--even the LCDs--7all the time? This just boggles the mind.
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post #12390 of 12984 Old 07-23-2014, 04:15 PM
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I'm not sure yet. The brick wall is already holding a mirror at the other side of the room that weighs a ton, so I think it can carry the tv weight. Is there a particular Sanus model you'd recommend (I'm thinking about the XF228 but it may be overkill)? Thanks for the help.
Looks like a great mount. I have a couple of older ones that have the dual arms. Overkill in the build department. But never hurts if you want to protect your investiment.
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