Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 418 - AVS Forum
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post #12511 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:28 AM
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help with IR potential purchase ZT60

Should I be concerned that this may be burn in or will this be able to be fixed? Should I slap the 2 yr warranty from BB on it?

My previous posts I speak about buying a ZT60 and other questions about the TV. So today I am moving forward to purchasing and finalizing prices with Magnolia rep. He called me back and explained that their was IR from ESPN. He says they are running the white screen or wipe screen to fix it. He will call me back with an update in a couple of days to see if it is remedied. I thought that was very considerate of the rep to call me and tell me that before having it delivered 3000 miles.
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post #12512 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:56 AM
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I would be concerned with IR on a used TV. That said, it could eventually clear up. If I were being conservative I'd make a warranty covering burn-in part of the purchase price of the TV.

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post #12513 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:56 AM
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I would be. If you read the comments on the ZT and VT Owner threads, you'll find where some owners are reporting signification IR problems and even burn-in. I've never experienced significant IR on my ZT set. But mine wasn't a demo set either. I guess if you can return it for a full refund your protected.
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post #12514 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
I would be concerned with IR on a used TV. That said, it could eventually clear up. If I were being conservative I'd make a warranty covering burn-in part of the purchase price of the TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
I would be. If you read the comments on the ZT and VT Owner threads, you'll find where some owners are reporting signification IR problems and even burn-in. I've never experienced significant IR on my ZT set. But mine wasn't a demo set either. I guess if you can return it for a full refund your protected.
I can now report that my IR is "almost" gone. I know where to look, but no one else would ever see it. It took a good 6 weeks of regular viewing on top of a few days worth of screen swipe and pixel flipper, as well as not viewing the offending channel............... a few more weeks and it may be totally gone. The reports that it eventually goes away, but takes a long time, appear to be true
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post #12515 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:19 PM
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^^^Congrats. Are you glad you ran the pixel wipe/flip or would you rather just have watched regular content and let the IR ease out more slowly?

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post #12516 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
^^^Congrats. Are you glad you ran the pixel wipe/flip or would you rather just have watched regular content and let the IR ease out slowly?
Yes, the screen swipe and pixel flipper (more so the screen swipe I think) speed up the initial removal of the IR a lot. I saw a marked reduction in the image after a few 12 hour swipe sessions. I finally stopped with the swipe/flipper after a few days and the rest of the reduction occurred naturally.
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post #12517 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
I can now report that my IR is "almost" gone. I know where to look, but no one else would ever see it. It took a good 6 weeks of regular viewing on top of a few days worth of screen swipe and pixel flipper, as well as not viewing the offending channel............... a few more weeks and it may be totally gone. The reports that it eventually goes away, but takes a long time, appear to be true
Can you provide a little background on your IR? Did you buy a floor model, or was it a new set and you were responsible for the IR etc. You may have already covered that somewhere, and I apologize for asking.
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post #12518 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Can you provide a little background on your IR? Did you buy a floor model, or was it a new set and you were responsible for the IR etc. You may have already covered that somewhere, and I apologize for asking.
Here's the post:

Official ZT60 Owners Thread
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post #12519 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Thanks, but I don't believe that link is taking me where you intend. It takes me to the top of page 157, which is the current page with my forum settings.
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post #12520 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Thanks, but I don't believe that link is taking me where you intend. It takes me to the top of page 157, which is the current page with my forum settings.
Quote from post:

Just a heads up hands on word of advice........ my IR didn't happen until about 1300 hours. Being well over 1000 hours with no IR, I think I got complacent thinking I was so far past break-in I was out of the woods and had nothing to worry about, especially since my Kuro never gave me a moments issue with IR. Be careful with station logos, my IR happened from only 4 or 5 hours a night of watching the Velocity channel. It's their crappy "V" channel logo that is not 100% opaque ...... the tips are a solid silver/white and that is what burned into my set. After hundreds of hours of screen wipe and pixel flipper plus a few hundred more of regular viewing, it is about 90% gone. I can still see a faint outline on light colored solid screen material. I honestly don't know if this last 10% will fade or not...... it seems to have leveled off at this point and isn't fading any more.

John
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post #12521 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 01:16 PM
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Thank you.
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post #12522 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 01:59 PM
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Hey guys
I could really use some help.
I have a Panasonic ZT60 with a weird streaming problem..
I am using Windows 8.1 and a Shared Video folder, it sees and can access the videos no problem
but if I try to play a video longer then like a few min it starts to play fine then Jumps to the next video after
a min or 45 sec ??

It will play short 3- 5 min videos completely, but a movie like an hour or longer and like I said it starts to play then
just moves to the next video in the list ??
I am completely miffed, I tried different video formats and still the same problem,


What is the Best Video Format Size, Bitrate, Audio Rate , to use
Mp4, Mkv I cant seem to figure out the right combination and bitrate so the Streamed movie keeps playing ?


Looks like some movies will stream correctly using 4000 bit rate but looks crappy
Does Anyone know what I need to use to get the best picture ?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Steve
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post #12523 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekelso View Post
Hey guys
I could really use some help.
I have a Panasonic ZT60 with a weird streaming problem..
I am using Windows 8.1 and a Shared Video folder, it sees and can access the videos no problem
but if I try to play a video longer then like a few min it starts to play fine then Jumps to the next video after
a min or 45 sec ??

It will play short 3- 5 min videos completely, but a movie like an hour or longer and like I said it starts to play then
just moves to the next video in the list ??
I am completely miffed, I tried different video formats and still the same problem,


What is the Best Video Format Size, Bitrate, Audio Rate , to use
Mp4, Mkv I cant seem to figure out the right combination and bitrate so the Streamed movie keeps playing ?


Looks like some movies will stream correctly using 4000 bit rate but looks crappy
Does Anyone know what I need to use to get the best picture ?

Thanks in advance for your help!
Steve
Going off memory, there was this same question posted like a week or so ago in one of the panny threads. I just skimmed the answer so not sure if this is right. You might look in the tv's player settings while you are playing a movie. Look for a "preview" setting and turn it off. Not sure if there's a setting in Windows Media Player like that. Maybe the poster of the original answer will chime in.

Using the internal DLNA player will limit you on what you can watch due to compatibility. Keeping the audio trimmed down to stereo may help. The best thing you can do is get a media player so you don't have to worry too much about codecs and such. An alternative I found useful was to put a streaming client on the PC and stream to the tv that way. I had god luck with Mezzmo and I'm sure there are others you can try. That one has a free 15 day trial. I think I had to install a codec on the Win7 pc just so I could play MKV at one point using that client. After all that I ended up getting a player.

Can't say much about the bitrate but a few years ago when I just got my ST30 I was able to wirelessly stream a BD M2TS file from one room away without stuttering, pic looked great, not sure if I had audio. Point being you may have to play around a bit like it seems you are but start with simple audio first(44k, 16bit)

One other thing, I'm not sure if you are but try using Win8 media player and see if the tv will use that then maybe add the MKV codec if needed.
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post #12524 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 07:06 PM
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I made a separate longer thread here with more info.

I have started to notice uneven white balance. The top left corner of the screen looks way too red.

Here's 70 IRE, my camera doesn't show proper white levels but it does show the variation that has developed:


(click for bigger)

Does that look like normal wear? The set is 10 months old and has had some pretty heavy use, I'd say 12-16 hours a day. Because of this, I try to run the screen wipe for one hour a day, I wonder if that is ill advised?
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post #12525 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 07:21 PM
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Is the discoloration at all angles? What I mean is, it's not the louvre effect from the AR filter, right? Uneven screen wear is a known factor. It looks more like DSE than banding. Either way, I'm not sure there's a fix or any way to prevent or reverse this. You say ten months. Does that mean you're still inside your warranty? If so, I'd make the call.
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post #12526 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 08:31 PM
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DSE? On a plasma?

Yes, it's viewable from all angles.

If nothing can "fix" it, wouldn't the only option from warranty be a replacement? And then, wouldn't it just recur? If you say that uneven screen wear is normal on the ZT60, then I guess I would be willing to live with it unless it gets REALLY bad. I mentioned in the bigger thread, a Lumagen scaler with multi-zone balancing may be an (expensive) way to compensate for this.

My current thought is I'd like to own this panel until at least 2016, after which I'm hoping Panasonic's FALD flagship set will be in its third "post plasma" generation and will improve.

It's not intolerable (yet) but as things go, once you notice something like this, then you always are "looking for it" so to speak. :P
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post #12527 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 08:38 PM
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I don't mean to imply this is typical with the ZT, just that panel variance may account for some screen irregularity. Even so, I wouldn't say what you're showing is "within spec" or typical.

The well is dry so if the panel were replaced you almost certainly wouldn't get a replacement plasma.
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post #12528 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:08 PM
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^^ A side effect of too much letterbox and 4:3 black bars?

("IR", or at least my version of it, is my frequent friend these days, doing what I can to avoid it, but doesn't seem to take much to bring it back after it goes away. Talking about the sparkly, colored, otherwise looks like white noise, variant. May end up backing off contrast and/or brightness levels and see if it makes a difference. Only good thing about it is that it's mostly confined to situations where screen content is bright, light colored, and there are no black bars on the side.)
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post #12529 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:23 PM
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<sigh>

It is a simple screen uniformity problem. There is only one thing that may help -- change Vsus from low to high. It's tricky because you have to get into the service menu to do it and from the quality of all the responses here, I do not recommend attempting it without someone knowledgeable walking you through the procedure.

Larry
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post #12530 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:24 PM
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I updated the pictures and got better exposures; the screen uniformity issues appear to be across all phosphors relatively equally. You can also see the logo and caption burns better. Again, I run the screen wipe 1 hour every day at least. I'm starting to do 2, but then, the fear is that the screen wipe might be putting even more wear on the panel. :P

[click for large]




Don't want to give up the ZT60!!
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post #12531 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post
<sigh>

It is a simple screen uniformity problem. There is only one thing that may help -- change Vsus from low to high. It's tricky because you have to get into the service menu to do it and from the quality of all the responses here, I do not recommend attempting it without someone knowledgeable walking you through the procedure.

Larry
Is the service menu that hard to navigate? Are there step by step instructions? What does the Vsus setting control? Would putting it to high increase the wear or decrease the panel life?

I did figure it's just screen uniformity, but I mentioned in the other thread, my previous set was the 2008 Panasonic TH-65PZ850, which after five years of the same heavy use, didn't exhibit nearly as intense screen uniformity issues as this set is now displaying. My Dad's set is the 2008 Pioneer Kuro KRP-500, also with five years (purchased in 2009) of heavy use, and it has virtually no noticeable screen uniformity issues. Chalk one up for the Kuro's I guess! :P (Although it does have the occasional "flushing" or "blushing" issue.)
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post #12532 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 09:57 PM
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Same Problem here and Panasonic has me jumping through Hoops ~!

LOOK How bad mine is !
Panasonic has me jumping through Hoops!
It is so bad a Calibrator refused a $275 Job because of it..
He said I cant calibrate this screen because there is something wrong with it ..
So here is the ******** Panasonic is putting me through.
I send them a bunch of pictures...
I send the Certified Calibrators Letter stating the TV is Bad ....
They send some Idiot to the house to check the problem that showed up with a Pair of Pliers and a Screwdriver ( I'm not kidding)!
HE Sent them a response that the TV is BAD
Lastly... they said they want the same Idiot that didn't have a CLUE about plasmas Pick up the TV and Take it into the shop !!
I REFUSED, I said you cant be removing these screens safely, I read numerous posts where if the screws are replaced incorrectly you will start getting cracks in the screens !
So Needless to say I'm still in a Battle to get them to either Replace the set or Refund me !
Start the process NOW because I can assure you Panasonic is going to Try to Screw you over !




Quote:
Originally Posted by Grendell View Post
I made a separate longer thread here with more info.

I have started to notice uneven white balance. The top left corner of the screen looks way too red.

Here's 70 IRE, my camera doesn't show proper white levels but it does show the variation that has developed:


(click for bigger)

Does that look like normal wear? The set is 10 months old and has had some pretty heavy use, I'd say 12-16 hours a day. Because of this, I try to run the screen wipe for one hour a day, I wonder if that is ill advised?
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post #12533 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 10:37 PM
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How much use is on your set? It's interesting that the uniformity looks like it has issues, yet is very different from mine. What is your contrast and panel brightness set to? (Mine is at 80 / mid.) What picture mode and color temperature are you using? (I mainly use THX Cinema / Warm 1).

Here's some thermographs... not that this reveals anything pertaining to screen uniformity per se, I just thought it might be interesting to see where and what the heat levels are on the ZT60 (65 inch) panel.

This is after the set has been on for several hours.



cajieboy, StinDaWg and ChadThunder like this.

Last edited by Grendell; 08-11-2014 at 11:25 PM.
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post #12534 of 13076 Old 08-11-2014, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekelso View Post
LOOK How bad mine is !
Panasonic has me jumping through Hoops!
It is so bad a Calibrator refused a $275 Job because of it..
He said I cant calibrate this screen because there is something wrong with it ..
So here is the ******** Panasonic is putting me through.
I send them a bunch of pictures...
I send the Certified Calibrators Letter stating the TV is Bad ....
They send some Idiot to the house to check the problem that showed up with a Pair of Pliers and a Screwdriver ( I'm not kidding)!
HE Sent them a response that the TV is BAD
Lastly... they said they want the same Idiot that didn't have a CLUE about plasmas Pick up the TV and Take it into the shop !!
I REFUSED, I said you cant be removing these screens safely, I read numerous posts where if the screws are replaced incorrectly you will start getting cracks in the screens !
So Needless to say I'm still in a Battle to get them to either Replace the set or Refund me !
Start the process NOW because I can assure you Panasonic is going to Try to Screw you over !
I understand your frustration, and really do hope you get the matter resolved. However, by refusing the Panasonic authorized service tech's decision for you to have the display taken to their shop for repair and/or further evaluation, you may have screwed the pooch on getting any further help.

Once that display leaves your house, it is Panasonic's problem to get it fixed or replaced. If this repair tech is as incompetent as you say, then my guess is that once back at the shop, the tech would probably report back to Panasonic that the display needs to be replaced.

Then again, it may only be a matter of replacing a bad board, and an easy fix for any tech to perform. From your description of the tech arriving only with a screwdriver & pliers, I get the idea that this particular repair shop prefers to haul their TV repair jobs back to their shop. It seems this is what the tech had in mind before you even let him in your home.

If you don't get a favorable response from Panasonic, you have little recourse than to get the repairman back to pickup the TV. Have you tried contacting the store itself, and see if they could help in any way?
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post #12535 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 01:11 AM
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I would guess that they want it back at the shop so they can hook it up to diagnostic equipment and look at all the usage data and such in a secure way.

I certainly don't like the idea of sending the set out either, given that it may not be replaceable with a new ZT60, should anything happen. But I agree, Panasonic is unlikely to take any further action if you don't let the shop take it, as the ball's in your court, so to speak. I guess it comes down to a risk you have to decide is worth taking or not. I know pictures don't really show exactly what your eyeballs see accurately, and mine actually look just as bad or even a bit worse than stevekelso's, yet, I don't really notice it when watching normal material... it still looks great, unless I know to be looking for the issues. So, is it worth sending it out? Is it going to get worse, the same, or better? Is this normal for this panel, or a fixable problem (like a bad board)? It's a dilemma for sure! :P

It is possible that this is how the panel is just going to age, and the customers who have the heaviest use of the panel (like me I'm betting) are just now seeing it first.

If there actually are some ZT60 panels left at Panasonic just for warranty replacement, and these issues represent normal wear, then they will just eventually recur if the panel is replaced.

This panel has the same life specs as the 2008 flagship that I mentioned, which is 100,000 hours until half brightness. I would expect that if the set was left on 24/7 for 1 year with only 16:9 movies playing (with no bars or logos anywhere), I wouldn't expect to see this level of white balance and screen uniformity issues.

If this is normal wear, I think it's kind of a big deal and I'm not sure how Panasonic can respond to it officially, especially since the ZT60 was designed with ISF calibration in mind, and has THX certifications. That makes me think of the infamous "rising black level" problems of the 50" and smaller 2008 Panasonic Panels, where Panasonic's official response was "it's normal, now just enjoy it!"

Still unsure where to go from here.

stevekelso, how did you contact Panasonic? Support forum, e-mail, phone? Just wondering the best way to go about contacting them; I've never had to do it before and they are a pretty big company. :P
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post #12536 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 04:32 AM
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I called them, and went back and forth for about three weeks, I am not kidding you when I say the 2 guys who showed up in a beat up truck started the conversation with me before they even walked into the room, with ( Well I have to tell you we read your service call notice and First off you should Never Have a Modern TV Calibrated it messes them up )
I am not kidding! he said that to me and it completely caught me off guard, his words almost Verbatim !
Then I noticed the two tools in his hand and I thought Your Kidding me !
I have them reopening the case since this Streaming problem is impossible and really the last straw !
Here is a Screen Shot of what the Calibrator wrote ( That was also sent to Panasonic )

My Concern was if they were sending these same 2 guys as I was lead to believe there was NO WAY they would be able to safely carry that TV in that beat up truck !
I really should have taken a picture of that ! it was easily from the early 2000's

I have read on here the Horror story's of service people removing the front panels then replacing the screws either too tight or too loose and 2-6 months down the road the panels start cracking! Then I am Really out of luck because ALL the stories ended the same Panasonic saying NOT MY PROBLEM!
I have them right now Reopening the case so If you say that when the TV leaves my house its their problem then I will have them do it!
But I am going to get the guys to Completely examine the TV in Front of me before it leaves my place and get them to Sign a paper stating that TV doesn't have a Scratch on it !
Its very frustrating after spending $3.800 on a TV and being treated like I am trying to Rip them off !
Again, Here is a Screen Shot of what the Calibrator wrote, he told me he has done 30 or more of these same TVs and never saw this he also pointed out Burn in,
and believe me I have had the KURO before this so I was WELL Aware Never to leave a static image on the screen ..
He also showed me, when you know you first turn it on and it says Master Panel in White, That is Noticeable on the screen if you popped a solid color slide on right away .. So he said he thought it was air in the Panel..
I appreciate the encouragement from everyone on here, I know they don't make these anymore and Panasonic told me it would be a refund, So I don't even know
what TV would even be close to this ?
Steve
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post #12537 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 06:39 AM
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Call Panasonic and request a different repair firm. Of course they're going to take the TV back to their shop. How are they suppose to run diagnostics on the set without taking it to their shop? Just give them a copy of the service bulletin when they take it. You really don't have much of a choice if you want warranty service.
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post #12538 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevekelso View Post
I have read on here the Horror story's of service people removing the front panels then replacing the screws either too tight or too loose and 2-6 months down the road the panels start cracking!
That only happened a few times and as long as the tech is aware of the issue it's very easy to avoid.

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post #12539 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 06:54 AM
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I also see some temporary IR when powering the set on right away. I always thought that was normal... I have to wonder if that calibrator made the correct diagnosis of air in the panel.

Wouldn't air in the panel cause higher temps? Wish I could thermograph a "known good" 65ZT60.

I have a 4 year Square Trade warranty in case I go past my October purchase date, but I know at this point it would only be a refund as apparently there are no more new ZT60's.

I suppose you could put the refund toward an AX900, but that doesn't come out until September (likely a longer wait if you order from e-tailers), and will likely cost at least $1,000 more than the ZT60 for a 65 inch.

What is the best way to contact Panasonic? I e-mailed them the link to my pictures and asked them to have a look using the form at http://shop.panasonic.com/ecom/suppo...act-us?t=email

Should I use a different path than that?

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post #12540 of 13076 Old 08-12-2014, 07:05 AM
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This is a bit off topic, but what did you guys do to capture images of your screens? Anything special, or did you just grab a camera, point & shoot? I took some pictures of my VT60 last night in an attempt to capture some IR that I could then show someone. My pics were piss poor to say the least, with a lot of "effects" for lack of a better word. I was using a phone camera, but it's a Nokia phone known for having a high quality camera. I have not tried my point & shoot Canon.
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Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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