Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 420 - AVS Forum
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post #12571 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 08:09 AM
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In your original post, you mentioned that you regretted not getting the 65". That doesn't necessarily imply that repete doesn't have some special powers.
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post #12572 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
In your original post, you mentioned that you regretted not getting the 65"
Lol yea i just saw that I did mention that. I edited my recent post. Hopefully get some more great feed back Page 419 last post #12570
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post #12573 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 09:58 AM
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My 65 zt is now on a brick wall, but I don't have an outlet near it, so I need a longer power cable. I know I don't need a locking cable like the one that came with the tv, but where can I get a longer one?
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post #12574 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
Page 6 post #s 151&156 I see NOTHING like this on my set in a blacked out room at night.
Page 6 post 157 is exactly what I see with light in the room or with dimmed environment. I do not see those super dark barely bezel noticing blacks that are in those pics I mentioned.
You can't judge black levels based on a picture over the internet, there are too many factors that will skew what you are really seeing. I can take a picture of my 2010 Panasonic and make the blacks appear inky/pitch black.
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
I will do my best to post pics of what I'm seeing. But even last night watching the Croods via Netflix (same with BD) the letterbox looks black with bright scenes but once the sun goes down as they are stuck in the cave those blacks seem ashy black gray. If this is normal then i will just get some Bias Lighting for 65$.
Blacks should look slightly better on BD vs Netflix since the latter is not on 96hz mode, but nonetheless what you are describing is perfectly normal, even my modified 101fd Elite glows during low low apl scenes in a pitch black room and it has a MLL of around six-fold lower than my vt60.
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post #12575 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Famouss View Post
You can't judge black levels based on a picture over the internet, there are too many factors that will skew what you are really seeing. I can take a picture of my 2010 Panasonic and make the blacks appear inky/pitch black.

Blacks should look slightly better on BD vs Netflix since the latter is not on 96hz mode, but nonetheless what you are describing is perfectly normal, even my modified 101fd Elite glows during low low apl scenes in a pitch black room and it has a MLL of around six-fold lower than my vt60.
This.
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post #12576 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Famouss View Post
You can't judge black levels based on a picture over the internet, there are too many factors that will skew what you are really seeing. I can take a picture of my 2010 Panasonic and make the blacks appear inky/pitch black.

Blacks should look slightly better on BD vs Netflix since the latter is not on 96hz mode, but nonetheless what you are describing is perfectly normal, even my modified 101fd Elite glows during low low apl scenes in a pitch black room and it has a MLL of around six-fold lower than my vt60.
This.

But the OP also said his 111fd had better "darker" shades of black levels in a pitch black room. I don't think his was modified. Stock 111fd didn't measure lower than the zt60. Maybe his memory is a big foggy on that particular matter?

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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
If I remember when my 111 was great with no defects that it also glowed a bit but I don't remember it doing it this much.
FWIW, does anyone know the kuro model David K from CNET used for his review with the ZT60? I think it was the 101fd or 111fd. He said it was a wash between the two display sets. One would occasionally look darker and the other would look darker here and there than the other but not to the extent Iamtheonewhoknocks99 is complaining about

Last edited by music_to_my_ear; 08-15-2014 at 11:33 AM.
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post #12577 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post
Also remember that the first hours the panel will seem a bit darker after about a week of viewing the panel really comes alive, it gets much better. That happened to my GT50 anyway.
Good News for ZT60 Owners


I have to add to this old post. I had a panny tech come to check out my 65ZT60. He said I was at 1600 hours and once it reaches 2000 hours the brightness will shoot up drastically. I should expect a very brighter picture as the hours come closer to 2000 hours. He said he confirmed it with his own zt60 and other zt60 owners he has visited recently.
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post #12578 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
The perception of black is affected by ambient light. The TV isn't behaving differently, your eyes are. With light in the room they are "over exposing" what you see. In a black room the light emitted by the letterbox part of the screen is the same as it was in a brighter room, but it's relatively brighter to your retina because there's less light to compete with.

Your TV is normal. Sorry you didn't get a 65" model. Enjoy.
Just to add a bit. The reason for using a back light in an otherwise dark room is to perceive the blacks as darker and to relieve eye strain.
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post #12579 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by scott brown View Post
My 65 zt is now on a brick wall, but I don't have an outlet near it, so I need a longer power cable. I know I don't need a locking cable like the one that came with the tv, but where can I get a longer one?
You can probably get one at Monoprice dot com.
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post #12580 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
This.

But the OP also said his 111fd had better "darker" shades of black levels in a pitch black room. I don't think his was modified. Stock 111fd didn't measure lower than the zt60. Maybe his memory is a big foggy on that particular matter?



FWIW, does anyone know the kuro model David K from CNET used for his review with the ZT60? I think it was the 101fd or 111fd. He said it was a wash between the two display sets. One would occasionally look darker and the other would look darker here and there than the other but not to the extent Iamtheonewhoknocks99 is complaining about


See below for quotes from the CNET review:

Editors' Note: For the purposes of this review, Panasonic sent me another Pioneer Kuro, a 60-inch PRO-151FD manufactured in March 2009, ostensibly to help prove that the ZT60 was a superior performer. Unfortunately the Panasonic-supplied Kuro review sample didn't perform as well as I expected, or even as well as CNET's older Kuro (the 50-inch PRO-111FD I've been using as a reference since 2008). The 60-incher showed lighter black levels and a few other issues, which were serious enough that I don't consider it representative of the Kuro breed. For that reason I left it out of the comparison below, with the exception of select bright-room tests. Of course I did keep CNET's older PRO-111FD, which is still entirely representative of the breed, in the mix.



Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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post #12581 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Good News for ZT60 Owners

I have to add to this old post. I had a panny tech come to check out my 65ZT60. He said I was at 1600 hours and once it reaches 2000 hours the brightness will shoot up drastically. I should expect a very brighter picture as the hours come closer to 2000 hours. He said he confirmed it with his own zt60 and other zt60 owners he has visited recently.
That's good news? Tell that to my seemingly looking at it funny invoked IR (at this point even directv menus are leaving their mark). Guess it's time to dig out the S&M disc again. Maybe bag Cinema THX as my (tweaked) default.

Just checked, 2084 hours... got some homework to do tonight.
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post #12582 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
Extremely late to this game but Ive had this set for a few months and its been pretty sweet. I have searched everywhere and cant really find a pin point answer for the situation I have going on. I want say this is normal but I have never owned a Panasonic before and like most have had the all might Pioneer Elite 111FD for about 6 years now. Was time for an upgrade but also over the 6 years my Pioneer has developed some defects so it is hard to compare directly with a brand new display.

I have less than 300 hours on it, no calibration, plugged in DNICE settings and a few others but mostly watch in THX Cinema. I also get some pretty quick onset IR, literally I could turn on my Bolu Ray player and let it sit for 5 seconds and turn and I will see IR that lasts about 30-60 seconds. Quickly fades so its not a concern at this point thought I do read that IR can happen at any point.

The ZT60 is a magnificent display with some minor issues but very minor. Only regret I have is not getting the 65". My question is about the blacks..they are very inky and dark when there
Is 1.) light in the room 2.) when controlled lighting is at a dim setting 3.) with ambient/bias lighting. Blacks look jaw dropping in these environments.

My concern lies with the panel at night time in a completely dark room (black sheets up for now until I get curtains), not quite man cave dark but dark none the less. I would have thought with lights out blacks would be even better but they are not. They actually seem to be worse or "lighter" in a pitch black room. With blank screen playing you can easily see the panel glow.
Last night I watched Gravity for the first time, tremendous visual movie especially to test blacks in a dark room. With lights on or dimmed low the blacks looked like a black hole in space, deep inky, made the picture punch that much more.
But with lights off(all in THX cinema btw) those blacks no longer look as deep. For example there is a scene where Sandra bullock is spinning out of control still attached to the destroyed satellite and before she unbuckles the blacks around her looked incredible at night, bezel blending almost. BUT once she detached and the satellite was off the screen and she was floating further into space, those black areas especially the letterbox bars became very gray colored ashy looking almost, and no longer had the deep feeling anymore. I could make out all sides of the border for the tv. Obviously with moderate to high amounts of light on a black background blacks look deep like it is with the closeup of her spinning, then when she unbuckles you see her floating out into space which leave little light on the screen and the nice big universe that was once black looks grayish black.

I understand to get true black you need OLED or FALD sets in a pitch black room to achieve no glow. But the glow I described seem normal to you? With medium to bright images on a black background it's like they are floating in mid air.
With low or very low light and low APL scenes it's like the blacks are brighter and you can distinguish the whole set with a fully dark scene with very low to no light in it.

Is this normal? If plasmas do this then I can only imagine how bad a LCD OR LED would look next to this. If I remember when my 111 was great with no defects that it also glowed a bit but I don't remember it doing it this much. I did do a reset (completely unplugging everything and replugged it in) and seemed to do a little something to the PQ overall so maybe my voltage or boards are faulty. Its a July 2013 build, so maybe its a return but I bought it from Chris at Cleveland AV (formerly Cleveland Plasma) which was at one of his other locations (extreme electronics I think was the name in PA, Im in the New England area, so I doubt very much it was used especially with Chris being sponsored by AVS and having a stellar rep. Set was pristine looking as well. and inspected fully.

Lastly I was going to invest in some proper D6500K bias lighting but I thought the purpose (especially from reviews) of this ZT was that the blacks were so good that Bias lighting seemed like it shouldn't have to be a option. Maybe my standard is to high but some help is always appreciated.

Thank You AVS

It wold benefit enormously from professional calibration. Well shot content and bars viewed on mine looks as black as the bezel, even in a totally dark room. I generally use a back light though as range from black to white is so high it can be a bit of a strain on the eyes.
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post #12583 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald View Post
It wold benefit enormously from professional calibration. Well shot content and bars viewed on mine looks as black as the bezel, even in a totally dark room. I generally use a back light though as range from black to white is so high it can be a bit of a strain on the eyes.
Im starting to think some folks pupils dilate considerably more than others in pitch black rooms when watching movies which can explain why some folks are claiming pitch black bars in pitch black rooms with low apl content.

All zt60s should have the same black levels unless user modicifactions made them lighter ( worse ) or the panel is defective. This also means whatever David K from CNET reported in his review should be exactly what we are seeing minus the individual pupil dilation sensitivity

well thats my theory at least......cant explain why some owners are reporting super deep blacks in low apl and others are complaining of dark greys in low apl pitch black rooms
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post #12584 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
That's good news? Tell that to my seemingly looking at it funny invoked IR (at this point even directv menus are leaving their mark). Guess it's time to dig out the S&M disc again. Maybe bag Cinema THX as my (tweaked) default.

Just checked, 2084 hours... got some homework to do tonight.
The S&M disc gonna help you find out if the footlamberts have increased?
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post #12585 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
And getting a tech out won't do much good..would love Chad B or Dnice to check it out but that costs 400$ lol...
It doesn't cost nearly that much to have me do my most basic calibration service, which would include a black level measurement.

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post #12586 of 12977 Old 08-15-2014, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by scott brown View Post
My 65 zt is now on a brick wall, but I don't have an outlet near it, so I need a longer power cable. I know I don't need a locking cable like the one that came with the tv, but where can I get a longer one?
Or, just get a heavy extension cord like what you would use for outside Christmas lights. Should fine what you need in either HD or Lowes with Halloween coming.
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post #12587 of 12977 Old 08-16-2014, 05:03 AM
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Make sure it is an appliance quality cord and no longer than absolutely necessary.

Perhaps I misremembered.

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post #12588 of 12977 Old 08-16-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
The S&M disc gonna help you find out if the footlamberts have increased?
Nope, it's gonna help me after I back off on brightness and/or contrast (with Cinema THX). Probably going to take a few iterations to determine whether that pesky patch of IR towards the bottom of my screen is reduced or not.

Also may break down and try some other settings (e.g., Dnice, S&V, etc) for a while that are not Cinema THX. Most of those start out with way too much contrast (and/or brightness) for my susceptibility to phosphor lag to tolerate (e.g., the S&V was particularly bad with that, but it's the only one I tried before returning to Cinema THX and tweaking with S&M), so will use S&M to potentially tame them as well. Aside from the phosphor lag, the S&V settings looked pretty nice. But so did THX Cinema afterwards, with color temp set to Normal.
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post #12589 of 12977 Old 08-17-2014, 05:59 PM
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Someone do me a favour....those who have their 65" zts calibrated, what contrast setting gave them 40 ftl? and what contrast and panel setting gives 50ftl ? Im asking because I'm trying to get an idea how many ft lamberts my zt is giving in its day mode and night mode. I don't have a meter yet or have got it professional calibrated

I have it at 90 contrast with panel bright high for day mode....65"...what ftL will that give me approx on a professional calibrated display?

i have it on 70 contrast with panel bright mid for night mode....what ftl will that give me on a pro calib display?
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post #12590 of 12977 Old 08-17-2014, 07:50 PM
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When mine was calibrated a year ago I inly got 32FL. That was with contrast at 100. However, subsequently when looking at basic test patterns there is virtually no appreciable difference in contrast beyond 70. I'd love to hear if Chad or anyone else can't verify this with more sensitive equipment.
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post #12591 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
When mine was calibrated a year ago I inly got 32FL. That was with contrast at 100. However, subsequently when looking at basic test patterns there is virtually no appreciable difference in contrast beyond 70. I'd love to hear if Chad or anyone else can't verify this with more sensitive equipment.

Pretty sure I know what's going on in your case. This is because your test patterns are taking up too much of the screen area and the ABL is kicking it in and limiting brightness over 70 in this particular case. If you can shrink that pattern down (think smaller windowed patterns) you'd find that the contrast control would be more responsive past 70.
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post #12592 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Pretty sure I know what's going on in your case. This is because your test patterns are taking up too much of the screen area and the ABL is kicking it in and limiting brightness over 70 in this particular case. If you can shrink that pattern down (think smaller windowed patterns) you'd find that the contrast control would be more responsive past 70.
Perhaps. I'm using the Disney WoW and DVE contrast patterns. I don't recall how much of the screen area is white.

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post #12593 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 02:11 PM
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if you don't have access to smaller patterns, you can alternatively find a letterboxed movie with a really dark scene that has a few light sources (eg stars in space, lampost at night, etc) and can play with the control during that scene to see the effects sans abl.
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post #12594 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
if you don't have access to smaller patterns, you can alternatively find a letterboxed movie with a really dark scene that has a few light sources (eg stars in space, lampost at night, etc) and can play with the control during that scene to see the effects sans abl.
Then it's subjective source-specific. Using an objective, stair-step scale would yield better results. I'm going to take a look at the available patterns in the next few days to see if I can get anything different.

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post #12595 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 02:34 PM
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you're right or course. I was only mentioning it so that you could reassure yourself that the control was actually changing things above 70. From reading all the calibration forum experts take on things, I get the impression that on these sets you want anywhere from a 5% - 12% window pattern.
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post #12596 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 04:43 PM
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Good point. I'll spot check to see if I notice anything.
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post #12597 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
When mine was calibrated a year ago I inly got 32FL. That was with contrast at 100. However, subsequently when looking at basic test patterns there is virtually no appreciable difference in contrast beyond 70. I'd love to hear if Chad or anyone else can't verify this with more sensitive equipment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
Pretty sure I know what's going on in your case. This is because your test patterns are taking up too much of the screen area and the ABL is kicking it in and limiting brightness over 70 in this particular case. If you can shrink that pattern down (think smaller windowed patterns) you'd find that the contrast control would be more responsive past 70.
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Perhaps. I'm using the Disney WoW and DVE contrast patterns. I don't recall how much of the screen area is white.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
if you don't have access to smaller patterns, you can alternatively find a letterboxed movie with a really dark scene that has a few light sources (eg stars in space, lampost at night, etc) and can play with the control during that scene to see the effects sans abl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Then it's subjective source-specific. Using an objective, stair-step scale would yield better results. I'm going to take a look at the available patterns in the next few days to see if I can get anything different.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mo949 View Post
you're right or course. I was only mentioning it so that you could reassure yourself that the control was actually changing things above 70. From reading all the calibration forum experts take on things, I get the impression that on these sets you want anywhere from a 5% - 12% window pattern.
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Good point. I'll spot check to see if I notice anything.

At the shootout the calibrators used 20% windows on plasma tvs and probably olds too

Repete what picture mode are you in? And do you have a day mode?
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post #12598 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Grendell View Post
No, pretty much still the same.

No response from the Panasonic web form... phone or e-mail. Nice.

I'm just sort of "going with it" for now, hoping it doesn't get worse.

I've *never* had to call a tech for any set I've owned, so I'm kind of lost in terms of trying to find a competent one, should it come to that.
Hey Grendell.....got a thought to share with you

Notice the thermal infared pic you took? The brightest areas were ironically over the areas of the screen the were suffering the uniformity problem

High temps causing the uniformity issue?
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post #12599 of 12977 Old 08-18-2014, 08:11 PM
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Repete what picture mode are you in? And do you have a day mode?
No, i had my TV calibrated for Ideal mode only, not Day. I have since set Custom to D-Nice's Day settings & I regularly check with THX Day as well but I rarely use them.
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post #12600 of 12977 Old 08-19-2014, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Hey Grendell.....got a thought to share with you

Notice the thermal infared pic you took? The brightest areas were ironically over the areas of the screen the were suffering the uniformity problem

High temps causing the uniformity issue?
That was a thought. I noticed that people complained of noisy fans in the first shipped models, then later shipped models (which would be mine) had the fans quieted. I wonder if that is because they have reduced airflow?

I'm thinking about maybe buying larger case fans and mounting them on the *outside* of the set, on the bottom part, to boost flow.

I also notice a blotch that starts showing up after several hours now on the *right* side of the screen. It is *directly* over the hot spot. Running the screen wipe or alternating several red green and blue full screen IRE patterns seems to lower it some.

Any other way you can think to get cooler temps without opening the set?

Anyone hear of repair shops or techs putting in stronger fans? Two fans for a plasma seems not enough... my previous 2008 Panasonic had 4.
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