Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 426 - AVS Forum
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post #12751 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 03:45 AM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
I didn't become crazed ....... I just moved the Kuro to the bedroom and bought a ZT for the home theater
Was talking about the chatter at the beginning of the thread from Kuro owners - they had the best for years - ZT came out and was better - didn't make the KURO "less great" just the ZT a little better - OLED is the future for now & as someone said - would much rather have a OLED then some edge-lit LED.

For the foreseeable future my ZT will be my HDTV of choice!

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post #12752 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Was talking about the chatter at the beginning of the thread from Kuro owners - they had the best for years - ZT came out and was better - didn't make the KURO "less great" just the ZT a little better - OLED is the future for now & as someone said - would much rather have a OLED then some edge-lit LED.

For the foreseeable future my ZT will be my HDTV of choice!
Oh I totally agree and got where you were coming from Bob..... I was just making a joke and being silly. Hopefully my ZT will be my HDTV of choice for the foreseeable future as well (and the bedroom is pretty sporty with a Kuro too )
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post #12753 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
Oh I totally agree and got where you were coming from Bob..... I was just making a joke and being silly. Hopefully my ZT will be my HDTV of choice for the foreseeable future as well (and the bedroom is pretty sporty with a Kuro too )
Jealous!! - I have a 32" (2005) Toshiba 720P LCD in the bedroom - maybe some day!!!
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post #12754 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Was talking about the chatter at the beginning of the thread from Kuro owners - they had the best for years - ZT came out and was better - didn't make the KURO "less great" just the ZT a little better - OLED is the future for now & as someone said - would much rather have a OLED then some edge-lit LED.

For the foreseeable future my ZT will be my HDTV of choice!
These TV's are in a league of their own and even owning the worst of the best is still better them most. Even with OLED, these plasma's will hold their own. While maybe less performing then an OLED they will still always be considered great.

Having something better then them come out will not take away the greatness they posses. I will say probably one the most exciting things about OLED for many folks moving the black levels aside is being able to purchase a TV larger then 65 inches that can also be considered reference quality.

One thing I am curious about is if more manufacturers start to get into the OLED business will the lower tier models still be top performers? Can you make an OLED model with crappy blacks? What will separate a $1000 OLED TV with a $5000 OLED TV?
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post #12755 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 06:09 AM
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And..., the best TV isn't curved. Curve doesn't work as well as flat unless only one person is watching the TV.
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post #12756 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 07:46 AM
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Come-on - there is always is something nice about owning the best -

True, I have enjoyed that.


And while I'm excited about OLED finally in the marketplace, they have some issues to be worked out. I wouldn't do a straight 1 for 1 trade, my ZT60 for what is available now. I'ld want flat, better uniformity, and less screen door effect. And 5 more inches.


When the 65" 4k version is out in a few months I might start getting OLED envy.
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post #12757 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 10:45 AM
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LOL All this talk about having to move our beloved Kuros to the bedroom!

Who would of thought that would have ever happened 5 years ago and even now.

Times are changing. Luvin my 65 inch ZT in the main theater and enjoying my Kuro in the bedroom.

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post #12758 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
I can get temporary IR like you quote that also goes away quickly, although I've never intentionally left the offender up for hours to see if it would stick for a long time. I do know that in my case, the IR developed over a few months of watching hours of the Velocity channel (V logo). Maybe short term IR goes away as quickly as it happened, whereas IR that is the result of long term viewing takes much longer to eradicate.
I think it's cumulative, just the briefest appearance of my directv dvr's navigation bar (a minute or two of cumulative bursty use) and I have IR that lasts for hours (and hours?). Sometimes it seems like it doesn't really go away, but once in a while when I think I'd see it it doesn't seem to be there, so benefit of the doubt will say it does eventually still go away by itself. (Again, my IR is only visible during light/whitish screen content, and only with full screen content (not during 4:3), so normally not visible.)

Finaly got around to running WOW pixel zapper, and think it did a good job the one time I tried it (not so sure the built-in screen wiper is doing much any more). The noise it generates looks a lot like the IR I often see, when I can see it, right where that dvr nav bar is.

Future plan: more discs, way less dvr (in particular the directv nav bar and graphics).

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post #12759 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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I think your experience with IR is not the norm. I've never seen Directv's navigation bar on my ZT. I've only seen occasional IR on my set. And what I do see goes away quickly. Up to 2000 hours on my set. So, I don't expect IR to get worse with age either.

The IR issues some are seeing must be due to slight differences in voltage between these sets.
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post #12760 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

One thing I am curious about is if more manufacturers start to get into the OLED business will the lower tier models still be top performers? Can you make an OLED model with crappy blacks? What will separate a $1000 OLED TV with a $5000 OLED TV?
Prob not blacks, but speakers, color depth, HDR,brightness and abl (power handling and longevity), motion (bfi), resolution and associated apps, frame rate capabilities, and of course size, are a few that come to mind.
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post #12761 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 06:23 PM
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Prob not blacks, but speakers, color depth, HDR,brightness and abl (power handling and longevity), motion (bfi), resolution and associated apps, frame rate capabilities, and of course size, are a few that come to mind.
Speakers! Speakers! What Speakers!

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post #12762 of 12774 Old 09-20-2014, 09:29 PM
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Just curious - Anybody else notice black levels are slighty higher ( worse ) when watching 3D movies? Or is it just me?
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post #12763 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 06:11 AM
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I can't see any banding on the container. There is a haze laying over the ocean from the different temperatures between sea and air at dawn. I'm not seeing it as banding though.


Please excuse the reflections. I took them in daylight with the curtains open.


My ZT60 is connected up to a Lumagen that handles the calibration though. Pre calibration the set looked awful to me on all the pre-sets especially THX with it's green skin tones.


I would also add that the circular pattern visble in the first shot is not on the screen but something to do with the interaction between my digital camera and the scanning of the ZT60. Looking through the camera the picture on the ZT is flashing. Also the camera is using a slower film speed to cope with the low light levels.
Thanks a ton Ray. That's exactly the scene. In that scene along with other similar ones I got bad banding in the sky. Your looks normal with a nice gradient.

There are a lot of potential things in the mix that could be causing the banding on my end. It could be anything from my older Oppo DBP-83 to video processing in my Anthem to something else in the chain.

I read a few online reviews about that movie and the reviewers did make a comment about banding. I'm therefore wondering out loud if non-professionally calibrated sets exhibit that. Are you able to put that scene in the default THX mode and see if you see the banding?

I had rented the movie and don't have it any longer but I think my plan is to try and re-calibrate my set from scratch and then get the movie again and see if there are any differences.

Thanks so much for taking the time to test this out and post your results!

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post #12764 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Thxtheater View Post
Thanks a ton Ray. That's exactly the scene. In that scene along with other similar ones I got bad banding in the sky. Your looks normal with a nice gradient.

There are a lot of potential things in the mix that could be causing the banding on my end. It could be anything from my older Oppo DBP-83 to video processing in my Anthem to something else in the chain.

I read a few online reviews about that movie and the reviewers did make a comment about banding. I'm therefore wondering out loud if non-professionally calibrated sets exhibit that. Are you able to put that scene in the default THX mode and see if you see the banding?

I had rented the movie and don't have it any longer but I think my plan is to try and re-calibrate my set from scratch and then get the movie again and see if there are any differences.

Thanks so much for taking the time to test this out and post your results!

I looked at the film on my computer and the picture looks pretty much the same, but with poor black levels. (It's a self calibrating LCD IPS panel.) No banding though.


Picture does show how much better the ZT60 is than my £1500 LCD monitor.


Just read a review that said this....
The Blu-ray:


The Video:





Lionsgate gives All Is Lost an AVC-encoded 2.40:1 high-definition transfer and the results are excellent. Film grain is present though much of the experience, and image detail is sharp throughout, whether it is beading of water on various surfaces of the boat and raft, or it the crags and wrinkles of Redford's face. Frank DeMarco worked with Chandor on Margin Call and shot (all?) of the scenes above the water, but Peter Zuccarini shot what happened under water and scenes throughout are clean. Colors and sun glare are natural looking without saturation or pushing issues, and there is little DNR or haloing to distract. It looks excellent.
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post #12765 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 10:41 AM
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Colors and sun glare are natural looking without saturation or pushing issues, and there is little DNR or haloing to distract. It looks excellent.
Roy that's why I'm wondering if this is part of the movie or if a pro-calibrated display handles this without issue. If you see none of the banding or halo effect in the sky in some of those dusk scenes then I think it's a calibration setting I'm going to rerun a calibration regardless and see how that goes.

Again my thanks to you for taking the time to be a peer on this.
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post #12766 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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I think your experience with IR is not the norm. I've never seen Directv's navigation bar on my ZT. I've only seen occasional IR on my set. And what I do see goes away quickly. Up to 2000 hours on my set. So, I don't expect IR to get worse with age either.

The IR issues some are seeing must be due to slight differences in voltage between these sets.
Could be. I think it's been an issue since I got the set, starting with the logo of the application used to run "the slides", for a little bit. Something changed from when I first fired them up (no IR), and when I subsequently fired them up (some IR). I stopped doing them after a few hours, but already there was some funniness going on. Same area.

Took a few months before I noticed the early incarnation of what I'm seeing currently, seemed like it went away pretty quickly after it appeared, say an hour or so. And now past the 2000 hour mark, it seems to maybe not go away at all, or at least not completely, and certainly not very quickly.

(Going to try the Disney WOW disc again tonight and see if it rids the tv of the bit of it I was still seeing hours later during one of the scenes of a movie I was watching last night.)

Too late for Panasonic, but maybe Geek Squad can do something about it (big wink). Wonder how much longer before those Samsung 8500s start becoming scarce...

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post #12767 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Just curious - Anybody else notice black levels are slighty higher ( worse ) when watching 3D movies? Or is it just me?
With or without the glasses?

I found the default THX 3D settings pretty abysmal (lots of viewing artifacts, cartoonish colors). Try the Sound & Vision 3D settings, if you haven't already. (And turn off motion smoothing altogether, set to 96Hz, not 120.)

It's been a while since I watched 3D.

Probably a real calibration would be necessary to get black levels to match, if it's even possible.
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post #12768 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 01:17 PM
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I've never run slides to break in my sets. Just watch varied content. I've wonder if running slides to break in the set has cause problems. Maybe there's something to be said for a slow break in. MY ZT is my 4th Panasonic plasma. Other than the rising blacks with my V10, I never had any problems with any of my plasma TVs.
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post #12769 of 12774 Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
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+1. I never have any IR even after having CNBC on the same channel for an hour or two. I wonder if its related to brightness and contrast settings? You may have it set too high.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
I think your experience with IR is not the norm. I've never seen Directv's navigation bar on my ZT. I've only seen occasional IR on my set. And what I do see goes away quickly. Up to 2000 hours on my set. So, I don't expect IR to get worse with age either.

The IR issues some are seeing must be due to slight differences in voltage between these sets.
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post #12770 of 12774 Old Today, 12:25 AM
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+1. I never have any IR even after having CNBC on the same channel for an hour or two. I wonder if its related to brightness and contrast settings? You may have it set too high.
No I used calibration disc, THX Cinema, contrast 43, brightness +2 (currently). Possibly it could be exacerbated by Color temp Normal, but white's are actually pretty white only with that setting... Mentioned a bit ago, a few pages back, need to try some further reductions though, but haven't managed to get around to it just yet. Trying to pinpoint a little better what's going on first.

Was suggested a few pages back that something in the tv firmware may kick in around 2000 hours that would boost the intensity to overcome initial aging of the phosphors. Perhaps it's true. (Opposite of rising blacks?)

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post #12771 of 12774 Old Today, 12:33 AM
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I've never run slides to break in my sets. Just watch varied content. I've wonder if running slides to break in the set has cause problems. Maybe there's something to be said for a slow break in. MY ZT is my 4th Panasonic plasma. Other than the rising blacks with my V10, I never had any problems with any of my plasma TVs.
The slides - only ran them for a few hours, maybe 5 to 10 (over a year ago, hard to recall exactly); once it started acting up (initial IR) I just stopped running them. Otherwise, I started out with full screen content for 100+ hours (stretching and zooming where appropriate), and just normal stuff from then on. Seemingly too much dvr-ing rather than live content since then (stopped watching some of the live content I was watching because there was tendency for IR in same area).

Anyway, here's a couple snaps from video of a paused 4:3 light colored screen. The first is normal 4:3 display, black bars on the LHS seemingly suppress the "IR"; the second shows the IR that appears when the same 4:3 is stretched across the screen (so no black bars). [Were it a white colored background, it would appear more reddish, and in motion there's a lot of fluctuation particularly in its vertical width.]
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post #12772 of 12774 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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I certainly don't have IR like that. Mine goes away very quickly. I'm at 1988 for hours. Will be watching my set closely over the next 30 days.
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post #12773 of 12774 Old Today, 09:00 AM
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+1. I never have any IR even after having CNBC on the same channel for an hour or two. I wonder if its related to brightness and contrast settings? You may have it set too high.
Weird, I get it from CNBC even after about 45 minutes. Screen wipe for awhile and it's gone.
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post #12774 of 12774 Old Today, 09:31 AM
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I think susceptibility to IR varies from one set to another. If that is the case, it would be nice to know what the issue is and possibly "fix" it.

I bought a 55" VT60 at the end of June. It was a floor model at a friend's small electronics store. Unfortunately, I wasn't aware of any issues with IR prior to purchase, bought on impulse, didn't run color slides etc. and it has minor persistent IR, or possibly permanent burn in, in the bottom right corner. The set had about 1,000 hours on it when purchased, and now has about 1700 total. I know for this particular set, if there is a static image on the screen for a relatively short period of time, it will take days for it to eventually fade away completely.

I bought a "new" 65" VT60 over Labor Day and that set seems pretty resistant to IR. It had 0 hours on it when purchased, and now has just over 100. I will admit that I'm being extremely careful, but if I watch a football game for 15-20 minutes without changing the channel, I can see no evidence of IR. I don't think that would be the case on the 55", but I haven't really confirmed how long an image needs to be displayed before remaining visible for some length of time. I know I watched the Golf Channel one night prior to the PGA Championship, and it couldn't have been more than an hour or so and the Golf logo in the bottom right corner of the screen persisted for many, many viewing hours afterwards.
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