Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 427 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #12781 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 08:52 PM
Advanced Member
 
music_to_my_ear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 607
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Just curious - Anybody else notice black levels are slighty higher ( worse ) when watching 3D movies? Or is it just me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
With or without the glasses?

I found the default THX 3D settings pretty abysmal (lots of viewing artifacts, cartoonish colors). Try the Sound & Vision 3D settings, if you haven't already. (And turn off motion smoothing altogether, set to 96Hz, not 120.)

It's been a while since I watched 3D.

Probably a real calibration would be necessary to get black levels to match, if it's even possible.

With 3D glasses.

Without them black levels are obviously lighter. But with them on low apl scenes I notice they are no where near as deep as in 2D mode. I use Vivid with colour temp 2 and colour is dropped a bit to 45. Brightness is 0. I don't use THX cinema. I used S&V settings for a while but still feel black levels are raised. However on very bright scenes or some bright mid apl scenes the wide screens will appear to vanish which is a nice touch.

I don't think a full calibration would deepen black levels at all. It would increase accuracy of gamma but black levels majority of the time will always stay the same unless the owner doesn't have a clue what they were doing with settings and had brightness raised all the way past +10

Im assuming Panasonic wanted to achieve maximum peak brightness in 3D mode so brightness was raised as well

FWIW, I can attest that watching a 3D movie on the 65ZT60 is like watching a movie in a cinema. The image isn't very bright but its good enough. Its VERY easy on the eyes just like a cinema experience is. There are moments in scenes where even a glimpse of the sun or flashlight or explosion would momentarily be bright enough for me to squint my eyes so as not to be blinded

Last edited by music_to_my_ear; Yesterday at 08:56 PM.
music_to_my_ear is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #12782 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Doesn't the WOW pixel flipper activate the ABL?
No idea. Only second time I've even tried it. (Think it worked well the first time too, but the navigation bar IR seems to always come back sooner or later, these days way sooner than later.)
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12783 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 09:25 PM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
With 3D glasses.

Without them black levels are obviously lighter. But with them on low apl scenes I notice they are no where near as deep as in 2D mode. I use Vivid with colour temp 2 and colour is dropped a bit to 45. Brightness is 0. I don't use THX cinema. I used S&V settings for a while but still feel black levels are raised. However on very bright scenes or some bright mid apl scenes the wide screens will appear to vanish which is a nice touch.

I don't think a full calibration would deepen black levels at all. It would increase accuracy of gamma but black levels majority of the time will always stay the same unless the owner doesn't have a clue what they were doing with settings and had brightness raised all the way past +10

Im assuming Panasonic wanted to achieve maximum peak brightness in 3D mode so brightness was raised as well

FWIW, I can attest that watching a 3D movie on the 65ZT60 is like watching a movie in a cinema. The image isn't very bright but its good enough. Its VERY easy on the eyes just like a cinema experience is. There are moments in scenes where even a glimpse of the sun or flashlight or explosion would momentarily be bright enough for me to squint my eyes so as not to be blinded
Vivid... like I said when I first tried 3D early on I got cartoon colors (I'm thinking with default out of the box settings, but maybe not)... would prefer realistic colors, can't imagine Vivid would provide them regardless of 2D or 3D. S&V was much more realistic than my prior settings.

But from recollection, you may be right, I have a vague recollection of some washed out black levels here and there, but for the most part, it's 3D, it's not going to reach 2D PQ on this set, so given it works pretty darn well (from my fairly limited, quite a while ago experience), not a big issue for me. If you have Prometheus 3D, give that a look, that's the last thing I partly watched. Lots of blacks to play with. (Have a couple newer ones to check out, maybe next couple weeks I'll finally get around to them.)

[I've never seen 3D in a movie theater, fwiw. About 4 or 5 blu-rays to date is about it.]
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12784 of 12793 Old Yesterday, 10:57 PM
Newbie
 
Cloverleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Perhaps, but I'm pretty happy otherwise with THX Cinema settings per my adjustments, and a bit of a tightwad to boot. May give one of the other flavors a try though -- the pixel orbiter bugs me a little, but may be the bullet I need to bite.

Have the Sound & Vision settings in Pro 1 or 2 from when they were first published, but contrast and/or brightness levels were way high when I tried them out, above and beyond my sensitivity threshold to phosphor lag. May be time to get back to them and unboost those levels some. The S&V settings were when I first realized there was an alternative to the not so white whites that THX Cinema Warm 2 was giving me; had some pretty decent coloring to it as well.

...

I gave the set a two hour session of WOW pixel flipper in Vivid mode last night, and skipping the dvr and straight to the Oppo today, the screen was clean. My test case is the white room scene early on in Under The Skin; had some of the purplish (mix of red and blue) color artifacts when I watched it the other day, now it's pure white (where it's supposed to be pure white ).
Why would you buy a ZT if you are a tightwad ? Much cheaper options out there. Here's the thing though, would you buy a Ferrari and pootle round in 2nd gear all the time ? At the moment, you are not getting what your ZT is capable of giving, for the sake of a few hundred notes ?

As far as your "not so white whites" are concerned, they were true white; what you have now are blue whites, not accurate. THX colours are also way off, pro will give you a much more accurate result even before calibration.

Panasonic ZT65 (isf calibrated) / Cambridge Audio 752BD / Pioneer LX55 / Dual CS506 / Sky + HD / Tannoy Arena 5.1 / Isotek Mira / QED Cables
Cloverleaf is offline  
post #12785 of 12793 Old Today, 12:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
fmalczewski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 958
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
Why would you buy a ZT if you are a tightwad ? Much cheaper options out there. Here's the thing though, would you buy a Ferrari and pootle round in 2nd gear all the time ? At the moment, you are not getting what your ZT is capable of giving, for the sake of a few hundred notes ?

As far as your "not so white whites" are concerned, they were true white; what you have now are blue whites, not accurate. THX colours are also way off, pro will give you a much more accurate result even before calibration.
Disagree. Come on over and see.
fmalczewski is offline  
post #12786 of 12793 Old Today, 04:40 AM
Member
 
B T C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lansing, MI via Kentucky, Georgia & Tennessee
Posts: 134
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 24
I thought the THX settings on the VT & ZT were pretty close to optimal.
B T C is offline  
post #12787 of 12793 Old Today, 05:45 AM
Advanced Member
 
bob brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I thought the THX settings on the VT & ZT were pretty close to optimal.
Both CNET & Sound&Vision (slightly less so) gave thumbs up - Katzmaier @ CNET - "Calibration notes: Prior to calibration the ZT60's best picture mode was THX Cinema, which delivered an extremely accurate picture; very slightly plus-red and a maximum light output of about 33 fL, but otherwise basically superb.". Similar from S&V.

I didn't like either and have been extremely happy with the new D-Nice day & Night settings - in Pro 1&2, on my ZT, they are spectacular - very, very happy camper!!

NOTE: - see my post 12775 & below - read this on the ZT Calibration site - haven't got any feedback yet!

"Was reading in another thread that "On the 60 Series, Pro 1/2 are a different base template vs Custom (or the other Picture Modes)"


Is this true?? and if it is would the same settings appear different in Pro 1/2 then they would in custom/cinema??

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000

Last edited by bob brennan; Today at 07:09 AM.
bob brennan is offline  
post #12788 of 12793 Old Today, 08:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
chunon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wilmington Ohio
Posts: 5,087
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 179 Post(s)
Liked: 498
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob brennan View Post
Both CNET & Sound&Vision (slightly less so) gave thumbs up - Katzmaier @ CNET - "Calibration notes: Prior to calibration the ZT60's best picture mode was THX Cinema, which delivered an extremely accurate picture; very slightly plus-red and a maximum light output of about 33 fL, but otherwise basically superb.". Similar from S&V.

I didn't like either and have been extremely happy with the new D-Nice day & Night settings - in Pro 1&2, on my ZT, they are spectacular - very, very happy camper!!

NOTE: - see my post 12775 & below - read this on the ZT Calibration site - haven't got any feedback yet!

"Was reading in another thread that "On the 60 Series, Pro 1/2 are a different base template vs Custom (or the other Picture Modes)"




Is this true?? and if it is would the same settings appear different in Pro 1/2 then they would in custom/cinema??

That is accurate to my knowledge 2012 and prior the Pro modes were based off the custom template that changed in 2013. I've never calibrated custom but I do believe it behaves slightly different.
Edllguy and bob brennan like this.

65VT60
55ST60
Sony BDV-F7 3dbluray/soundbar
Calman Enthusiast
Dish Network with Hopper/Super Joey
chunon is offline  
post #12789 of 12793 Old Today, 08:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
bob brennan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Westchester County, NY
Posts: 654
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 99
Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
That is accurate to my knowledge 2012 and prior the Pro modes were based off the custom template that changed in 2013. I've never calibrated custom but I do believe it behaves slightly different.
Thank you - very helpful - appreciated!

BOB

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
bob brennan is offline  
post #12790 of 12793 Old Today, 12:19 PM
Newbie
 
Cloverleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
Disagree. Come on over and see.

Thanks, but it's a long flight over .

Dont get me wrong it's your TV and you can use whatever settings make you happy, it's not for anyone to dictate what you should and shouldn't do. But. If you want accuracy, then THX ain't it . We are conditioned to see blue whites as "pure" or natural white - the TV manufacturers know this, which is why they set them up out the box like this. If you don't believe me, check out any soap powder ad.

In reality though, real white isn't blue tinged. I'm sure what you have looks better to you, and that's fine if you are happy with it. A calibrator though would give you a very different looking picture.

Panasonic ZT65 (isf calibrated) / Cambridge Audio 752BD / Pioneer LX55 / Dual CS506 / Sky + HD / Tannoy Arena 5.1 / Isotek Mira / QED Cables
Cloverleaf is offline  
post #12791 of 12793 Old Today, 12:35 PM
Member
 
RoyMacDonald's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Rye East Sussex UK
Posts: 71
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I thought the THX settings on the VT & ZT were pretty close to optimal.

On my ZT THX made everyone look like they all had green complexion,s to a greater or lesser degree. My pro calibrator said the points they calibrate in the factory aren't near the ones you need to do for accurate skin tones.
rifleman69 and Cloverleaf like this.
RoyMacDonald is offline  
post #12792 of 12793 Old Today, 12:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ChrisFB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 2,378
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
I thought the THX settings on the VT & ZT were pretty close to optimal.
I just had my display calibrated by Jeff Meier. Was previously using THX Cinema and very happy. Let me tell you that it looks like a completely different display. It wasn't the marginal difference I was expecting at all - I'm not exaggerating, you could tell me it's a brand new unit/model/technology. The color of white has completely changed, flesh tones are far more natural and the picture is brighter, sharper, and a lot more detailed. Even the kids, babysitter, and grandmother immediately noticed. This is on Blu-Ray, compressed 720p MKV, DVD, cable/FiOS and Xbox 360.

I was pretty damn happy with THX Cinema and the pre-calibration data would seem to indicate it wasn't "too far off" from optimal. Well, to everyone's eyes that has seen it the difference was huge. I'm honestly still shocked by how much better it looks and let's face it, these units in THX modes are some of the best off the shelf units produced. Kudos to Jeff for his work and kudos to Panasonic for making a display capable of so much.
Edllguy, Sonyboy and Cloverleaf like this.

Panasonic 65" VT60 (calibrated by Jeff Meier), Marantz 6005, Kef Q towers/rears Kef Reference center, Win 7 Pro with XBMC, Harmony Ultimate One
Xbox Live: Arbitrage XXL
ChrisFB is online now  
post #12793 of 12793 Old Today, 01:14 PM
Newbie
 
Cloverleaf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: London UK
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFB View Post
I just had my display calibrated by Jeff Meier. Was previously using THX Cinema and very happy. Let me tell you that it looks like a completely different display. It wasn't the marginal difference I was expecting at all - I'm not exaggerating, you could tell me it's a brand new unit/model/technology. The color of white has completely changed, flesh tones are far more natural and the picture is brighter, sharper, and a lot more detailed. Even the kids, babysitter, and grandmother immediately noticed. This is on Blu-Ray, compressed 720p MKV, DVD, cable/FiOS and Xbox 360.

I was pretty damn happy with THX Cinema and the pre-calibration data would seem to indicate it wasn't "too far off" from optimal. Well, to everyone's eyes that has seen it the difference was huge. I'm honestly still shocked by how much better it looks and let's face it, these units in THX modes are some of the best off the shelf units produced. Kudos to Jeff for his work and kudos to Panasonic for making a display capable of so much.
Yes, that is exactly what I am talking about The trouble is that the so called experts who review these sets all jump on the THX bandwagon, but they havn't got a clue how pants it really is as they dont have a calibrated picture to compare it with, and to be fair the the THX preset is far better than any LED picture.

But when you have an accurate picture to compare it with, you understand what you have been missing out on, and what the ZT is capable of.
Edllguy likes this.

Panasonic ZT65 (isf calibrated) / Cambridge Audio 752BD / Pioneer LX55 / Dual CS506 / Sky + HD / Tannoy Arena 5.1 / Isotek Mira / QED Cables
Cloverleaf is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

Tags
Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off