Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Finally watched (using CNET settings for now) a full feature on this beauty (on a loud documentary type film no less, so the fans were virtually nonexistent), the Art of Flight (chronicling some worldwide snowboarding escapades), and I was pretty blown away with the immersion that the 15 extra inches provides. If I wanted to nitpick, I think I saw traces of vertical DSE in horizontally panned scenes with light backgrounds (on the Kuro I would regularly see something similar, but more blotchy, on vertical pans), of which there are plenty in a documentary about snowboarding. I also saw some minimal flickering on the occasional scene, which might have been an awry setting on my part (however, I recall recent complaints from disgruntled folks who have reported being subject to Panasonic's particular driving method or so it was theorized). The black level difference is too close to call when it comes to the Kuro, so for those of you who missed out on that panel, this seems to finally be providing an equivalent experience.

Glad you're liking it smile.gif

Did you finally exchange your first 750-miles ZT, or this is the same set?

BTW, yesterday at BB, I took another good look at F8500. I cannot live with its stand, and the vertical viewing angles seem worse than ZT. However, I don't have the stamina for 3 exchanges, so a viable option may be to get the BDI Arena 9970 mounting kit for my stand and just get F8500. Of course, I have to first turn off all the motion enhancers and all the other processing mumbo jumbo on that set, before I can make a good comparison.
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post #1262 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I have a question for you.

Would you have upgraded if you owned a 60" Kuro?

It depends on how the ZT60 pans out as far as calibration goes. As it is calibrated now the Kuro's have a better contrast ratio. If someone finds some new "tricks" perhaps the ZT's can be calibrated to be very close if not the same. The brightness is in the ZT, but can it be calibrated to look good? The blacks are almost the same, with the ZT a little better in a well lit room, because of the filter.

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post #1263 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RUSSIANTEXAN View Post

I'm glad that I returned mine (ZT60 65 inch) after a week of suffering with the fan noise and washed-out picture.
I didn't even think about exchange after I found the same level of noise coming from TV in Magnolia showroom.
I'll take a pause and wait till Thanksgivings. Considering 4K UHD TV hopefully with 240 refresh rate.
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Originally Posted by RUSSIANTEXAN View Post

ARC wan not working on my ZT with Denon AVR-3313CI
It's hard to get the ARC to work when your speakers are at home and the TV is at a Best Buy warehouse.

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post #1264 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Isn't it a wonderful picture, Vinnie? Am I fooling myself or is it Kuro like but stretched over 65' ?
That describes it pretty succinctly.
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Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

I have a question for you.

Would you have upgraded if you owned a 60" Kuro?
Like the others have stated (and never having owned a 60" panel), probably not. Too much cash required in going virtually sideways in PQ quality and with little real estate gains.
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

Glad you're liking it smile.gif

Did you finally exchange your first 750-miles ZT, or this is the same set?

BTW, yesterday at BB, I took another good look at F8500. I cannot live with its stand, and the vertical viewing angles seem worse than ZT. However, I don't have the stamina for 3 exchanges, so a viable option may be to get the BDI Arena 9970 mounting kit for my stand and just get F8500. Of course, I have to first turn off all the motion enhancers and all the other processing mumbo jumbo on that set, before I can make a good comparison.
I never bothered with an exchange, as the risk versus reward ratio likelihood is not worth doing so.
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post #1265 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Read the UK thread. The man had a loud ZT or VT. Took the back of the panel off. Much to his surprise (and dismay) the fans were completely silent. It's something acoustic or something about the way the air exits the vents it seems.

Well obviously it's acoustic, but I understand what you are saying. wink.gif If it were a mechanical issue with the fan it would likely be high frequency, unless it is related to something loose. However, a change in mechanical "noise" could still result from taking from the back off because there is less effort to pull air with the cover removed, and there is less likely to be a torque from air pressure differentials. Still, it's almost certainly sound from the airflow and an acoustic interaction with the system (which includes outside back-wall reflections). Is the problem that is bothering most people just a hum or is there an oscillation? An oscillation is more likely related to a beat frequency from the fans running at slightly different speeds. I apparently don't have the same magnitude of problem, so I don't really understand the specific issue.
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post #1266 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mixdoctor View Post

It depends on how the ZT60 pans out as far as calibration goes. As it is calibrated now the Kuro's have a better contrast ratio. If someone finds some new "tricks" perhaps the ZT's can be calibrated to be very close if not the same. The brightness is in the ZT, but can it be calibrated to look good? The blacks are almost the same, with the ZT a little better in a well lit room, because of the filter.

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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Like the others have stated (and never having owned a 60" panel), probably not. Too much cash required in going virtually sideways in PQ quality and with little real estate gains.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

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post #1267 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by hutchinsrobert View Post

Well obviously it's acoustic, but I understand what you are saying. wink.gif If it were a mechanical issue with the fan it would likely be high frequency, unless it is related to something loose. However, a change in mechanical "noise" could still result from taking from the back off because there is less effort to pull air with the cover removed, and there is less likely to be a torque from air pressure differentials. Still, it's almost certainly sound from the airflow and an acoustic interaction with the system (which includes outside back-wall reflections). Is the problem that is bothering most people just a hum or is there an oscillation? An oscillation is more likely related to a beat frequency from the fans running at slightly different speeds. I apparently don't have the same magnitude of problem, so I don't really understand the specific issue.

Can't tell you how offensive it is to have you slam me for contributing with your little wink, wink, nudge, nudge. If it's so obvious -- why am I the one to bring it to the table here?
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post #1268 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Read the UK thread. The man had a loud ZT or VT. Took the back of the panel off. Much to his surprise (and dismay) the fans were completely silent. It's something acoustic or something about the way the air exits the vents it seems.

Glashub, can you please provide the link to the UK thread? Thanks.
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post #1269 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Can't tell you how offensive it is to have you slam me for contributing with your little wink, wink, nudge, nudge. If it's so obvious -- why am I the one to bring it to the table here?

Think you totally misunderstood me. Not implying the issue is obvious. I was just saying that both issues are technically "acoustic", since we are hearing them.... just a joke (play on the use of "acoustic"), and the reason for the wink. Totally not intended to be a slam. The rest of the reply was just trying to contribute to the discussion. Don't know why there should be any offense taken, as none was intended. I replied to your posting for context, since you were originating the discussion.
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post #1270 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 08:53 AM
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It looks like Panasonic is going bankrupt once and for all.
I doubt it, major companies usually claim losses. Who else could loose billions and still stay in business ?
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post #1271 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 09:09 AM
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I tested it before I returned my ZT60 BTW
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post #1272 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 09:57 AM
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What issues do the Samsung F8500 set have that are as annoying as the noisy fan issue of the ZT60?
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post #1273 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

What issues do the Samsung F8500 set have that are as annoying as the noisy fan issue of the ZT60?
I'm not fully versed but I know some have complained of buzzing. There have been some QC issues on panel performance as well though this, as with the noisy fan, is an unknown quantity. It's a good TV if you don't mind the incredibly ugly stand. My BDi is too narrow for it though so it was never in consideration.

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post #1274 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 10:21 AM
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What issues do the Samsung F8500 set have that are as annoying as the noisy fan issue of the ZT60?

From what I gathered in my research, it only has inferior black levels.
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post #1275 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Finally watched (using CNET settings for now) a full feature on this beauty (on a loud documentary type film no less, so the fans were virtually nonexistent), the Art of Flight (chronicling some worldwide snowboarding escapades), and I was pretty blown away with the immersion that the 15 extra inches provides. If I wanted to nitpick, I think I saw traces of vertical DSE in horizontally panned scenes with light backgrounds (on the Kuro I would regularly see something similar, but more blotchy, on vertical pans), of which there are plenty in a documentary about snowboarding. I also saw some minimal flickering on the occasional scene, which might have been an awry setting on my part (however, I recall recent complaints from disgruntled folks who have reported being subject to Panasonic's particular driving method or so it was theorized). The black level difference is too close to call when it comes to the Kuro, so for those of you who missed out on that panel, this seems to finally be providing an equivalent experience.

vinnie, totally agreed. what a picture even out the box. Not sure if I like the cnet settings better than the THX Cinema out the box. Of all the content I've watched I'd say the colors and blacks are on par if not better than my 151FD. My only complaint really is how these panasonic sets handle 24fps content and motion/panning. I can't seem to find a "mode" that duplicates the way kuros handle motion. But overall, a great great tv and I'm glad to finally see the plasma tech catch up with the new panasonics. No issue with ARC here, never had an issue with VT50 as well as long as HDMI control is enabled on both the preamp/receiver and TV.
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post #1276 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 10:32 AM
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It's hard to get the ARC to work when your speakers are at home and the TV is at a Best Buy warehouse.
That can throw a kink in things.

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post #1277 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 10:40 AM
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It's a good TV if you don't mind the incredibly ugly stand. My BDi is too narrow for it though so it was never in consideration.

Isn't yours compatible with BDI Arena 9970? wink.gif
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post #1278 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

From what I gathered in my research, it only has inferior black levels.
Inferior black levels and some buzzing possible QC issues too versus fan noise issues & brightness!
It's like pick your poison. There is no perfect high end plasma!
Brightness has not been too much an issue for me, overall PQ is outstanding on ZT60. Still trying to figure out what to do about fan noise.
ARC has worked on my set. Using Classe SSP-800.
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post #1279 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:17 AM
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Well I got my replacement. Same banding issue. I am going to schedule a final exchange in a few days. So disappointing. Otherwise I'll have to return it and just wait, I guess. What should I do? Arg....
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post #1280 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

Isn't yours compatible with BDI Arena 9970? wink.gif
Nope, I have the Deploy 9638. Too tall for the free-standing mount and not compatible with the attachable mount. Good thing I didn't get a lemon ZT.

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post #1281 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bigmoviefan View Post

Inferior black levels and some buzzing possible QC issues too versus fan noise issues & brightness!
It's like pick your poison. There is no perfect high end plasma!
Brightness has not been too much an issue for me, overall PQ is outstanding on ZT60. Still trying to figure out what to do about fan noise.
ARC has worked on my set. Using Classe SSP-800.

At home, I think ZT60 PQ is great. In store, viewing both Life Of Pie and TDKR side-by-side, F8500 had cleaner picture. I have no scientific data to back this, but I think Samsung vertical viewing angle limitation is more obvious.
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post #1282 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

At home, I think ZT60 PQ is great. In store, viewing both Life Of Pie and TDKR side-by-side, F8500 had cleaner picture. I have no scientific data to back this, but I think Samsung vertical viewing angle limitation is more obvious.
When I first saw the 8500 and VT side by side the 8500 looked much better, but that's because they had different source content. Once I saw both with identical content the VT did better in all parameters with the exception of brightness. It was by no means a night and day thing, but the VT was the better TV from what I saw.

I'm still loving my ZT. I watched Dark Knight Rises on cable last night and looked really good. Some of the subterranean scenes were a bit too dark but the blacks in the opening were just fantastic. (Remember, I am coming from a 5 year old 50" base model Samsung.) The movie experience improved even more once I realized I never set the AT&T PVR to 5.1.

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post #1283 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

Ok, here is what I have so far:

x264 MP4 and MKV works, but Xvid is not supported, and AVIs coded using Xvid are the same.

Subtitles only work from USB.

For USB/HDD, you have to use the Media Player app. It only will bring up the supported files, and it doesn't show any unsupported files.

For Network, you have to use the DLNA Server app. It shows all your DLNA servers, and you can browse normally. In my case, Synology DS212, and it shows all files, but does not play unsupported formats.

Beautiful, Lost! Thanks for doing this. For DLNA, have you tried something like Tversity to see if some of those unsupported formats can be streamed from your NAS?
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post #1284 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

When I first saw the 8500 and VT side by side the 8500 looked much better, but that's because they had different source content. Once I saw both with identical content the VT did better in all parameters with the exception of brightness. It was by no means a night and day thing, but the VT was the better TV from what I saw.

I'm still loving my ZT. I watched Dark Knight Rises on cable last night and looked really good. Some of the subterranean scenes were a bit too dark but the blacks in the opening were just fantastic. (Remember, I am coming from a 5 year old 50" base model Samsung.) The movie experience improved even more once I realized I never set the AT&T PVR to 5.1.

Im finding broadcast compression really kills the darkest areas of the picture.

Looking at same content from 1080p files, and then on broadcast, tons more noise.... Some of the things I am able to perceive now w/ this amazing set!

Even though I subscribe to AMC will still be downloading MadMen+The Killing every week cause the 1080p files, ~2gigs only each one!, just look unbelievable compared to the same 720p broadcast... must be a provider in the US serving some nice bitrates!


Also going through Fringe for the first time, panicked when I thought I noticed a scratch on the ZT, but then realized it was only there when the camera went back to one shot/character, just happened to be a hair on the lens for that shot they missed in post-production!


I am in a whole new world as my delta is from SD/CRT to ZT60, so there's so much more new for me to discover!
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post #1285 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by praktik View Post

Im finding broadcast compression really kills the darkest areas of the picture.

Looking at same content from 1080p files, and then on broadcast, tons more noise.... Some of the things I am able to perceive now w/ this amazing set!

I am in a whole new world as my delta is from SD/CRT to ZT60, so there's so much more new for me to discover!
Yes, dark scenes on cable shows are pretty bad. I wish I had more time to run a few Blu-rays through this thing.

I can't even imagine the transition between SD CRT and this TV.

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post #1286 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 11:53 AM
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Im finding broadcast compression really kills the darkest areas of the picture.

Ditto same on last years VT50

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post #1287 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 12:07 PM
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I'm still loving my ZT. I watched Dark Knight Rises on cable last night and looked really good. Some of the subterranean scenes were a bit too dark but the blacks in the opening were just fantastic. (Remember, I am coming from a 5 year old 50" base model Samsung.) The movie experience improved even more once I realized I never set the AT&T PVR to 5.1.

Don't get me wrong, I love ZT too. I just have to see how much the fan bothers me. Just finished the dead pixel search, and fortunately I don't see any on plain white and yellow backgrounds.

Funny, yesterday when in BB, I also picked the Dark Knight Trilogy Limited Edition on Blu-ray. It was on sale, so I couldn't resist. Haven't opened the box yet, but I plan to watch the opening scene tonight.
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post #1288 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 12:10 PM
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I hear the mastering in the Dark Knight Blurays is such that blacks are crushed a tad, by design...

I guess a creative choice...

That trilogy set is also on deck for me, had to tell the gf to avoid the broadcast - "NOOOOO - we're saving that for bluray dont ruin it!"
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post #1289 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 12:15 PM
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Beautiful, Lost! Thanks for doing this. For DLNA, have you tried something like Tversity to see if some of those unsupported formats can be streamed from your NAS?

I am not familiar with Tversity, but I see what I can do tonight.
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post #1290 of 12664 Old 06-21-2013, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

Don't get me wrong, I love ZT too. I just have to see how much the fan bothers me. Just finished the dead pixel search, and fortunately I don't see any on plain white and yellow backgrounds.

Funny, yesterday when in BB, I also picked the Dark Knight Trilogy Limited Edition on Blu-ray. It was on sale, so I couldn't resist. Haven't opened the box yet, but I plan to watch the opening scene tonight.
Based on an earlier post it sounds like you have the fridge fans. Are you really considering keeping it?

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