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Chere's Avatar Chere
01:14 PM Liked: 113
post #13141 of 13164
12-13-2014 | Posts: 1,050
Joined: Jan 2009
^^^Glad you were able to get rid of it. For some reason the ZTs are more susceptible to IR compared to the VTs
repete66211's Avatar repete66211
01:45 PM Liked: 225
post #13142 of 13164
12-13-2014 | Posts: 1,604
Joined: Feb 2009
The VT & ZT are the same panel, so any perceived & reported difference in IR is purely anecdotal.
eaayoung's Avatar eaayoung
10:46 PM Liked: 66
post #13143 of 13164
12-14-2014 | Posts: 515
Joined: May 2006
After watching a lot of football this weekend, my IR is almost gone. I ran the screen swipe for serveral hours on Saturday which made a big difference.
Iamtheonewhoknocks99
03:55 PM Liked: 0
post #13144 of 13164
12-18-2014 | Posts: 17
Joined: Aug 2014
Glad to see everyone is happy with their sets even with the annoying IR, which mine goes away rather quickly and I do not usually just stick to one channel anyway. But if the set is defective I will do my best to get my refund or try to sell (sell only if worst comes to worst) and try to see if any 8500s will still be around. I am still waiting on the repair company because they were suppose to come yesterday but never did because no one told me they were waiting for the parts to come in. So i took a day off because I was told they were servicing it Dec.17th and I call them and Im not even on the record. So now im playing the waiting game. We will see what happens. At this point if there are no 8500 left if my situation does come to refund and finding a new set I have no idea where I would even start.

My final question is that the VT is about 5 lamberts brighter than the ZT, does this equate to being "much brighter" in real world content? I had a VT for a short period and if i remember it did seem brighter (not by much) so I didnt know how much 5 lamberts would actaully affect the brightness factor of the ZT compared to the VT?

thanks again
benner9999's Avatar benner9999
01:44 PM Liked: 10
post #13145 of 13164
12-21-2014 | Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 2008
Has anyone compared the picture sharpness of the 60" and 65" ZT60? I'm wondering if 60" is the sweet spot for 1080P? At which point (e.g. 65, 70, 75) do the limitations of 1080P become apparent at normal viewing distances. And I'm not talking about the charts which show our ability to see details at a particular viewing distance...I'm looking for more of a subjective opinion (if that makes any sense). Why is it that Pioneer never went 65" with the Elites? It's also interesting that LG with their New 1080P OLED chose 55 inch as the standard size.

Personally, I've always liked the perceived increase in sharpness of a 50" 1080P set, especially while watching cable. Sorry, if this is a dumb newbie question.
Jason626's Avatar Jason626
07:47 PM Liked: 82
post #13146 of 13164
12-21-2014 | Posts: 396
Joined: Aug 2010
I think 65" tvs back in the pioneer days was very costly to add on top of already expensive display. Over the years people have slowly becoming accustomed to larger sizes as we are used to them.

For most of the world 55" is the norm I believe. Especially in tighter living rooms.
repete66211's Avatar repete66211
10:19 AM Liked: 225
post #13147 of 13164
12-22-2014 | Posts: 1,604
Joined: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
My final question is that the VT is about 5 lamberts brighter than the ZT, does this equate to being "much brighter" in real world content? I had a VT for a short period and if i remember it did seem brighter (not by much) so I didnt know how much 5 lamberts would actaully affect the brightness factor of the ZT compared to the VT?
I have never examined the ZT and Vt side by side in a controlled manner--casual or "memory" comparisons aren't worth much--but from what I recall the VT did measure marginally brighter. The panels in the two are the same, so this difference is attributable to the ZT's anti-reflective coating. This is the same coating which does a better job of blocking out ambient light and therefore offers an improved picture in all but the darkest settings.
repete66211's Avatar repete66211
10:25 AM Liked: 225
post #13148 of 13164
12-22-2014 | Posts: 1,604
Joined: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by benner9999 View Post
Has anyone compared the picture sharpness of the 60" and 65" ZT60? I'm wondering if 60" is the sweet spot for 1080P? At which point (e.g. 65, 70, 75) do the limitations of 1080P become apparent at normal viewing distances. And I'm not talking about the charts which show our ability to see details at a particular viewing distance...I'm looking for more of a subjective opinion (if that makes any sense). Why is it that Pioneer never went 65" with the Elites? It's also interesting that LG with their New 1080P OLED chose 55 inch as the standard size.

Personally, I've always liked the perceived increase in sharpness of a 50" 1080P set, especially while watching cable. Sorry, if this is a dumb newbie question.
As I recall, the 55" screen size is not the result of consumer demand or the limitations of display technology, but rather to the size of the glass the panels are cut from. Again, the memory is fuzzy here but I think you get 4 55" panels out of a sheet of glass but only 2 if you go any larger. IMO 60" looks sharper than the 65" when you get close, as the graphs that you mention indicate, but at normal viewing distances there is no perceivable difference. I wager the Elites never went 65" because the 60" units alone were cost prohibitive.
benner9999's Avatar benner9999
10:34 AM Liked: 10
post #13149 of 13164
12-22-2014 | Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by benner9999 View Post
Has anyone compared the picture sharpness of the 60" and 65" ZT60? I'm wondering if 60" is the sweet spot for 1080P? At which point (e.g. 65, 70, 75) do the limitations of 1080P become apparent at normal viewing distances. And I'm not talking about the charts which show our ability to see details at a particular viewing distance...I'm looking for more of a subjective opinion (if that makes any sense). Why is it that Pioneer never went 65" with the Elites? It's also interesting that LG with their New 1080P OLED chose 55 inch as the standard size.

Personally, I've always liked the perceived increase in sharpness of a 50" 1080P set, especially while watching cable. Sorry, if this is a dumb newbie question.
As I recall, the 55" screen size is not the result of consumer demand or the limitations of display technology, but rather to the size of the glass the panels are cut from. Again, the memory is fuzzy here but I think you get 4 55" panels out of a sheet of glass but only 2 if you go any larger. IMO 60" looks sharper than the 65" when you get close, as the graphs that you mention indicate, but at normal viewing distances there is no perceivable difference. I wager the Elites never went 65" because the 60" units alone were cost prohibitive.
This makes sense, thanks!
mohanman's Avatar mohanman
07:56 PM Liked: 25
post #13150 of 13164
12-23-2014 | Posts: 929
Joined: Apr 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
After watching a lot of football this weekend, my IR is almost gone. I ran the screen swipe for serveral hours on Saturday which made a big difference.
This whole thing about IR is a crock. I have a 55" VT30 that initially had tons of IR, after a few years no more IR. It will eventually go away. My ZT60 has no IR now. Same thing took time
fmalczewski's Avatar fmalczewski
10:00 AM Liked: 23
post #13151 of 13164
12-24-2014 | Posts: 990
Joined: Feb 2004
Good to know you think I have only a few more years left of this pesky IR. I'll believe it when I don't see it. (I'm still convinced mine is a combo of IR and something else, but time will tell. Or not.)
benner9999's Avatar benner9999
06:54 PM Liked: 10
post #13152 of 13164
12-24-2014 | Posts: 24
Joined: Jul 2008
I bought a demo floor model LG 50PZ950 plasma with the worst case of IR I've ever seen. Is was from daily vivid ESPN showing in a big box store. Unfortunately, I got it for next to nothing and it was all that I could afford at the time. I can say that after 3 years about 95 percent of it has gone away.

Most if not all IR should go away with time. One can probably speed this process up with the right content and running it 24/7.
sterlingjewel
08:30 PM Liked: 89
post #13153 of 13164
12-24-2014 | Posts: 296
Joined: Oct 2014
Too expensive to run it that frequently. And if you like football (or the like) or someone in the house utilizes subtitles, you'll keep re-exacerbating those areas of the screen that get it. Of course this applies to those who have experienced the problem and monitor their sets like manic hawks. Otherwise a killer set with that being its only Achilles heel.
smail.nathan's Avatar smail.nathan
02:36 PM Liked: 15
post #13154 of 13164
12-25-2014 | Posts: 175
Joined: Sep 2006
Sorry to change the subject....

Figured I'd post this question here for now... are people using the pair of included 3d glasses from panasonic as their standard glasses/ I used them last night... found them very uncomfortable, and they let in way too much surrounding light. when reclining, depth of field not great either.

they are fine as extra glasses, but i would like to buy a pair of "premium" 3d glasses that are compatible. been researching online, not that many options out there. what would all of you fellow zt owners recommend?

thanks for the help!
kennyboy2's Avatar kennyboy2
02:58 PM Liked: 10
post #13155 of 13164
12-25-2014 | Posts: 45
Joined: Mar 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by smail.nathan View Post
Sorry to change the subject....

Figured I'd post this question here for now... are people using the pair of included 3d glasses from panasonic as their standard glasses/ I used them last night... found them very uncomfortable, and they let in way too much surrounding light. when reclining, depth of field not great either.

they are fine as extra glasses, but i would like to buy a pair of "premium" 3d glasses that are compatible. been researching online, not that many options out there. what would all of you fellow zt owners recommend?

thanks for the help!
This is what I use http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-TY-E...nic+3d+glasses

They are comfortable and have rechargeable batteries.
Edllguy's Avatar Edllguy
09:09 AM Liked: 21
post #13156 of 13164
Yesterday | Posts: 394
Joined: Jan 2006
IR is not a major issue on my ZT as I vary my viewing content, however, I'm about to set up my new Tivo Roamio.

Is IR an issue with the Tivo Roamio? Any problems with the program guide leaving images?


Thanks guys.
Scandy's Avatar Scandy
10:30 AM Liked: 12
post #13157 of 13164
Yesterday | Posts: 86
Joined: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by mohanman View Post
This whole thing about IR is a crock. I have a 55" VT30 that initially had tons of IR, after a few years no more IR. It will eventually go away. My ZT60 has no IR now. Same thing took time
Just because you don't have an IR problem with your viewing habits, it does not mean that the whole issue is a 'crock'.

I have had my 60" ZT60 for just over a year now, and it definitely has an IR problem that is caused by Dish Network's logo. I posted this before in this thread but I think it is appropriate to repeat myself.

I have Dish Network's Hopper receiver. When you use the program guide, or any of the Dish Network setup screens, there is a huge DISH logo displayed, and it is always in the same position. The word DISH is written in huge letters and they are bright white (as white as you can get).

When I first got the Hopper receiver, I was going thru all of the menus to set up the device and to see what capabilities that the receiver had. I spent a long time in the setup menus when I first started using the Hopper. A few weeks later I noticed that the D SH letters had very bad IR (the 'I' in DISH was in red letters so it did not have IR like the other 3 bright white letters).

Since then I have run the screen wipe for hours and hours and have tried to avoid the DISH menus as much as possible. The IR has decreased a lot, but after months of me trying to be careful, the IR is still there. It is not noticeable for most people during normal viewing, but I can still see it easily (because I know where to look).

I don't think that the IR is ever going to completely disappear because I cannot avoid using the program guide which has the offending DISH logo. Even though I am careful not to leave the DISH logo on screen for very long, the short periods of time that it is displayed is enough to keep the IR from totally disappearing.

In my opinion, the IR on this TV is unacceptable for a TV of this quality. I had my previous Panasonic plasma TV for 10 years with no evidence of IR. Even though the picture is great, I expected that a Panasonic plasma that was 10 years newer to be better, or at least as good as the old one with IR.
Scandy's Avatar Scandy
10:31 AM Liked: 12
post #13158 of 13164
Yesterday | Posts: 86
Joined: Nov 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edllguy View Post
IR is not a major issue on my ZT as I vary my viewing content, however, I'm about to set up my new Tivo Roamio.

Is IR an issue with the Tivo Roamio? Any problems with the program guide leaving images?


Thanks guys.
I am not familiar with the Tivo Roamio, but if it has stationary bright logos, you will probably have the same issue that I described in my previous post above.
B T C's Avatar B T C
10:39 AM Liked: 40
post #13159 of 13164
Yesterday | Posts: 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edllguy View Post
IR is not a major issue on my ZT as I vary my viewing content, however, I'm about to set up my new Tivo Roamio.

Is IR an issue with the Tivo Roamio? Any problems with the program guide leaving images?


Thanks guys.
If you do have a problem, it shouldn't last for more than a few years. Crock on.
Rosso_Corsa's Avatar Rosso_Corsa
08:44 PM Liked: 17
post #13160 of 13164
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Just picked up a new ZT60 60". Loving the deep blacks. Reminds me of my previous Kuro Signature.

On the ZT, noticed in 3D that there is some brightness fluctuations in anything other than the default 120hz mode. Anyone else notice this?

Also, 3D brightness is overly dim in anything except Vivid mode. Any other tips for maximizing light output in 3D? I had an F8500 previously and while it suffers from different problems, the Samsung's extra brightness are a huge plus compared to the ZT for 3D.
Edllguy's Avatar Edllguy
06:23 AM Liked: 21
post #13161 of 13164
Today | Posts: 394
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post
Just picked up a new ZT60 60". Loving the deep blacks. Reminds me of my previous Kuro Signature.

On the ZT, noticed in 3D that there is some brightness fluctuations in anything other than the default 120hz mode. Anyone else notice this?

Also, 3D brightness is overly dim in anything except Vivid mode. Any other tips for maximizing light output in 3D? I had an F8500 previously and while it suffers from different problems, the Samsung's extra brightness are a huge plus compared to the ZT for 3D.
Congratulations on receiving your new ZT60. What happened to your Kuro?
Rosso_Corsa's Avatar Rosso_Corsa
10:51 AM Liked: 17
post #13162 of 13164
Today | Posts: 239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edllguy View Post
Congratulations on receiving your new ZT60. What happened to your Kuro?
I sold it some years ago so it's been a while since I've had a plasma. Resale was solid at that point and my Signature was a 50" so a bit small for my seating distance (6.5 ft).

Recently, I had the following TVs in my home.

1. Samsung 55HU7100. 4k set for cheap but resolution does not make up for poor contrast, motion handling and a very 'digital' samsung look. Worst Samsung I've seen. Returned.

2. Panasonic 58AX800. Fantastic LCD image quality hindered only by poor motion resolution and uniformity. Radial banding on a white field. I saw two others in the showroom, all had similar uniformity problems. Also exceedingly poor viewing angle. Returned. Too bad, I really wanted to like this one as it's the best cheap-ish 4k set available today with adequate build quality and PQ.

3. Sony W850B (1080p). This is the best LCD I've ever seen in terms of uniformity and black levels. Seriously satisfying image. I shouldn't have returned this one because its price / image quality ratio is superb and I got a good sample. I only returned it cause I found a 60F8500 plasma.

4. Samsung PN60F8500. This is the TV most relevant to this thread. Solid black levels (though it won't touch the ZT in a dark scene), FANTASTIC whites, an absolute light cannon that is fantastic for 3D if not for a serious problem with brightness pops that remains unresolved. I loved this TV at first and thought I was finally done. However, my sample buzzed like a beehive and came with two dead pixels. Samsung Canada has no replacement parts in hand. Returned. Also like all Samsungs has poor build quality. I could try another, but don't feel like playing panel lottery.

5. Samsung 65H7150. Supposedly their best flat 1080p panel this year. 65 is stunning at 6.5 ft but does not make up for unsatisfying and foggy black levels. Fantastic 3D. Flashlighting in corners, edgelight bleed, serious vertical banding. Returned.

6. Frustrated, I went for the big guns and picked up the ZT60. There is only one store in the country which still has them and they want a premium. However, the hype is justified. This is the absolute best picture I've seen in my home. I would consider OLED, but I do not want curved and I do not want 55". I need at least a 60. The 65EC9700 is on its way, but that is still 10k. The ZT produces the best value in a high end set right now and between build quality and better blacks (I watch in a man cave), it is significantly better than the F8500 IMO. Only problem is that it costs double the F8500 in my region. My sample is dead pixel free, has flawless uniformity and does not buzz like a beehive. In fact, as far as plasmas go it is the quietest I have heard. Everything is manufactured and packaged with quality and pride, unlike Samsungs. It is exceedingly expensive (for a 1080p plasma in a world of 4k LCDs and infinite contrast OLEDs) but it feels like it should be.

Before I decide to keep the ZT, I need to figure out two questions.

1.) Is image rentention really as bad as everyone says? I do play games occasionally and I don't want to have to worry about channel logos all the time. I just want to use the damn TV. However, permanent or semi-permanent IR is not acceptable. Having to worry about it all the time will suck the joy out of owning this set. I'm going to experiment and see what I retain. I find it odd that someone in this thread said it varied from sample to sample. I know from experience that buzz varied from sample to sample but never heard that IR would be too.

2.) Is it worth waiting for an AX900? It is going to be at least 7k for the 65. Out the door, that will be approaching double the cost of what my 60ZT cost but I gain 5". Also, its motion handling is still unproven. I can clearly see differences in motion resolution and that is important to me. However, LCD is worry free. Less inherent flicker (easier on the eyes) and no burn in. 4k is more future proof. Feels good to have it.

Opinions?
B T C's Avatar B T C
12:07 PM Liked: 40
post #13163 of 13164
Today | Posts: 226
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IR is something that needs to be managed, imo, with the VT60 & ZT60. It seems to vary from set to set, and is surely dependent upon viewing habits, but if you want to prevent, or limit, IR, I don't think it's safe to simply say use the TV however you see fit and don't worry about it.
antennahead's Avatar antennahead
01:41 PM Liked: 26
post #13164 of 13164
Today | Posts: 851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B T C View Post
IR is something that needs to be managed, imo, with the VT60 & ZT60. It seems to vary from set to set, and is surely dependent upon viewing habits, but if you want to prevent, or limit, IR, I don't think it's safe to simply say use the TV however you see fit and don't worry about it.
+1 You can manage it fairly easily from the start. Run the screen swipe daily or every other day, for example, for a short time period if you have been on a single channel or a static image for a long time. I think as the sets age they also become less susceptible to IR, at least that has been my experience with my ZT60. I just watch mine normally now and don't worry about it, although I do, about once a week, run the screen swipe for about 10 minutes for good measure :-)
Tags: Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv

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