Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 441 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13201 of 13464 Old 01-01-2015, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
This may be the rainbow effect your describing. Do you see colors on white lettered next to black background especially if look left or right? Some peoples faces are lit up enough to see it but it really easy to see on bright letters with black backround.
Most people don't see it until I point it out. When I first noticed i can see rainbows I had to ask other people to find out if it was just me. Once I pointed it out they could see it.
aka phosphor lag
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post #13202 of 13464 Old 01-01-2015, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
aka phosphor lag
I don't think it's completely limited to phosphor lag. Since it can be seen on static images as well. Phosphor trails happen during movent.
If there is big letters in white sitting there on the screen not moving you can see the effect of you move you eyes left to right.
You see rainbow effect because plasma tvs use red green blue to make white. When you move you eyes on stationary image your eyes can for a split second see the sub pixel columns smear.
Sound right?
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post #13203 of 13464 Old 01-01-2015, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
I don't think it's completely limited to phosphor lag. Since it can be seen on static images as well. Phosphor trails happen during movent.
If there is big letters in white sitting there on the screen not moving you can see the effect of you move you eyes left to right.
You see rainbow effect because plasma tvs use red green blue to make white. When you move you eyes on stationary image your eyes can for a split second see the sub pixel columns smear.
Sound right?
Sounds reasonable enough. Whether or how much they are independent of each other I'll defer to the plasma scientists.
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post #13204 of 13464 Old 01-01-2015, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
aka phosphor lag
Not sure if it's the phosphor lag since that's typiccaly seen all the time right? I'm only seeing this phenomenon at 1080p24 at 96hz - plus it gets better when switching over to 60hz.
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post #13205 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
Not sure if it's the phosphor lag since that's typiccaly seen all the time right? I'm only seeing this phenomenon at 1080p24 at 96hz - plus it gets better when switching over to 60hz.
I think you're right about it potentially being visible all the time. Not sure what you are experiencing then, nothing I've noticed, I've been running my Oppo at 1080p24 96hz for at least a year.
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post #13206 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 08:58 AM
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Checked my 65ZT60 and just reached 5500hrs Purchased 10/13 and could not be Happier!!

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post #13207 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
I think you're right about it potentially being visible all the time. Not sure what you are experiencing then, nothing I've noticed, I've been running my Oppo at 1080p24 96hz for at least a year.
I originally calibrated my set with 24fps set to off.

Something else strange that I just found out was that by enabling 24fps on my Oppo and 60hz on my set completely mucked up my calibration settings when I took measurements. I wouldn't think that enabling 24fps on the Oppo would have that much of a difference terms of the color (only motion handling), but apparently it does. I mean, it's by no means dramatic to the naked eye, but it's definitely a big difference with my colorimeter readings.
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post #13208 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
I originally calibrated my set with 24fps set to off.

Something else strange that I just found out was that by enabling 24fps on my Oppo and 60hz on my set completely mucked up my calibration settings when I took measurements. I wouldn't think that enabling 24fps on the Oppo would have that much of a difference terms of the color (only motion handling), but apparently it does. I mean, it's by no means dramatic to the naked eye, but it's definitely a big difference with my colorimeter readings.
Well that's interesting - hadn't heard that one before...

How big of a measurement difference did you see?

On a related note, here was another interesting dialog on the 60 vs 96hz issue: bit . ly / 1xBpnM8 (not sure why the link post isn't working?)

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post #13209 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
Well that's interesting - hadn't heard that one before...

How big of a measurement difference did you see?

On a related note, here was another interesting dialog on the 60 vs 96hz issue: bit . ly / 1xBpnM8 (not sure why the link post isn't working?)
Nevermind. I ended up messing something up, which screwed up my readings. When looking again, I don't think there's really much of a difference. I'm going to try running 24flps in 60hz mode for awhile to see if I like it. It definitely looked more natural to me than 96hz does.
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post #13210 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
Nevermind. I ended up messing something up, which screwed up my readings. When looking again, I don't think there's really much of a difference. I'm going to try running 24flps in 60hz mode for awhile to see if I like it. It definitely looked more natural to me than 96hz does.
Most of the professionals recommend 96hz but what is really important is what looks best to you - run a calibration disc and just look @ the results of 24fps @ 60 & 96hz.

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post #13211 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 06:04 PM
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Greetings everyone. My first post on this forum. I purchased the second last Panasonic plasma (60ZT60) available from Best Buy in the St Louis area about a year ago. I was using a 42' Panasonic professional that I had purchased in 2005 as my HT screen and was happy with the PQ, size not withstanding. When Panasonic announced they were abandoning the plasma market, I received the OK from the family CEO to acquire a new plasma before they disappeared. I almost waited to long. I am extremely happy with the purchase. I currently use a D-Nice night setting(professional 2) that looks great to my (partially color blind) eyes. The only thing that bothers me is extremely dark scenes in Blu-ray movies such as Godzilla or Edge of Tomorrow. I can't see any detail except in the brightest areas, using any picture mode including Vivid. I can see more detail(content may be a better description) for some reason or another in my wife's crappy 50 shades of grey LG LCD. This is a minor quibble as it rarely occurs. I'm curious about anyone's thoughts.

On a second not note, I'm not surprised Panasonic abandoned the plasma market after reading a number of the posts on this forum. I run Windows media Center with a cable card and a custom backdrop. If I throw up a black screen and look closely I can see some image retention. Is this noticeable under any type of normal viewing conditions? No. My 2005 panny is noisier than my Zt60. Is either noticeable under normal viewing conditions? No. My media center PC is probably unacceptable noisy to some on this forum with the TV volume turned off, again under normal viewing volumes it is not detectable. I realize we are paying a premium price for a premium TV. I doubt that profit margins are much better than the razor thin margins for mass market TVs. Cracked screens are one thing, but fan noise and image retention not noticeable by 99.9% of the public is another. Does anyone think that the vast majority of the public that goes out and buys a TV without any research, would notice such "deficiencies". On a low volume market such as plasma's, it wouldn't take many such returns to convince a manufacturer to abandon. I hope that the same thing doesn't happen to LG in the OLED market, or we may end up crappy LCD viewing angles permanently.

Of course I may just be completely wrong. My wife informs that I am wrong quite frequently. I have no statistics to back this up.... About the TV,.... not my wife.
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post #13212 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 06:33 PM
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Had similar result with my ZT before I had it calibrated by Chad. Getting the TV calibrated can make a difference. Although subtle, you can see the difference. Even the CEO in my family noticed the difference. And when an Accountant says it was worth the money, well that's saying something.

BTW, she says I wrong all the time too. Goes in one ear and out other. Enjoy your TV. Even with the IR and fan noise, worth every penny!
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post #13213 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:42 PM
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Thanks for the insight. I'll have to mull over having the set calibrated. It would probably bring out a little more detail in darker areas of normal TV. As is, it's worth every cent spent. I'll climb out the man cave occasionally and look at my wife's LCD I as pass by and just cringe at the black levels(or lack thereof). This certainly doesn't bother my wife. I had to delete all the standard definition channels in the guide in the past because I would walk by and catch out of the corner of my eye that she was watching a SD channel when the same channel was available in HD. She would get mad at me for changing to the HD channel while she was watching. Go figure.
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post #13214 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jfbacks View Post
Thanks for the insight. I'll have to mull over having the set calibrated. It would probably bring out a little more detail in darker areas of normal TV. As is, it's worth every cent spent. I'll climb out the man cave occasionally and look at my wife's LCD I as pass by and just cringe at the black levels(or lack thereof). This certainly doesn't bother my wife. I had to delete all the standard definition channels in the guide in the past because I would walk by and catch out of the corner of my eye that she was watching a SD channel when the same channel was available in HD. She would get mad at me for changing to the HD channel while she was watching. Go figure.
Get free calibration settings from CNET or Sound&Vision. Best thing next to a real calibrated picture
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post #13215 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
IR is something that needs to be managed, imo, with the VT60 & ZT60. It seems to vary from set to set, and is surely dependent upon viewing habits, but if you want to prevent, or limit, IR, I don't think it's safe to simply say use the TV however you see fit and don't worry about it.
This.

Definitely needs to be managed. You eventually learn what to watch and how to watch it if there are logos are stationary symbols in the programming material.

Between gaming sessions, I run the screen wiper for 15 mins or so. It can be a pain in the a$$ but it becomes a habit eventually.

FWIW, my ZT is in my cave...I have complete control over viewership and material. It might be harder to control programming standards on a family shared ZT. IN fact a family shared ZT/VT60 could be quite hazardous for fear of developing lingering IR
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post #13216 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:54 PM
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I just checked. I have 15 hours on there. I estimate about 12-13 hours of those are mine. So perhaps someone tested it for 2 hours on this XETV HD channel. I've been using it in full screen all afternoon, but there is still a faint imprint of the retention on there. It's being much more stubborn than I would expect from just 2 hours of use.

The retailer has already scheduled a replacement for me for tomorrow. However... I risk getting a panel which is buzzier or with dead pixels.

Haven't heard of many ZTs with dead pixels or buzzing issues. I think the standard of quality for the ZTs were quite high which would explain why there hasn't been such noise in the thread about buzzing or dead pixels.

My ZT had a very faint buzz. Nothing abnormal for a high voltage operating plasma tv. Keep in a 65" tv would buzz louder than a 60". More current required to light up a 65" screen.
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post #13217 of 13464 Old 01-02-2015, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mjodotcom View Post
Hey all - long time since be posted on this thread

I noticed today when watching the Blu Ray Pitch Perfect that when on the 96hz setting for 24p there is noticeable "ghosting", particularly on people's faces, during motion.

Has anyone else noticed this phenomenon and tried anything that worked to get rid of it?

I haven't noticed this much before - can it be a BR specific issue?

Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
Although I'm a VT owner, I posted over there that I was seeing a lot of weird things while running 96hz on my Oppo BDP-103 (as well as my previous entry-level Sony BD player). There's just something about it that looks weird. There is definitely something odd going on when there is motion in peoples' faces, as well as camera panning and any type of movement. I want to call it a mild case of soap opera effect, but I don't think that's it. Unfortunately, 96hz gives you a VERY slight improvement in black-levels that you unfortunately have to sacrifice if you're running 60hz.

I just leave the 24fps off on my BD player and seem to like the way this looks, which is probably because I'm used to a certain degree of judder, I guess.

When I had Jeff Meier calibrate my VT60 last December, I remember bringing up my concerns over 96hz and I recall him saying that the sets have issues at running 24fps properly and advised me to just leave it off - so that's what I've done.
I had this problem too. You need to turn off motion smoother. I had it on weak and kept noticing this faint blur with soft pans and fast movement.

Once it was turned off, motion rez does drop ( couldn't notice a difference on or off tbh ) but that blurriness should go away.

FWIW, I think 24p or 24 fps is over-rated. Blu rays are enjoyable without 24p equally as much. Also less blur and screen tear with fast pans.
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post #13218 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
The ZT/VT does not float blacks well documented, but the f8500 does again well documented.
Yea I know floating blacks isn't documented on the ZT/VT but I notice something going on with the letterbox bars on those speficic movies that aren't noticeable on the F8500 or the Kuro that the other owner owned.

They definitely become a slightly brighter shade. I don't know, i barely notice it with the bias light on however
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post #13219 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 12:49 AM
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Yea I know floating blacks isn't documented on the ZT/VT but I notice something going on with the letterbox bars on those speficic movies that aren't noticeable on the F8500 or the Kuro that the other owner owned.

They definitely become a slightly brighter shade. I don't know, i barely notice it with the bias light on however
If you're watching in a completely (or very near) dark room, then what you (and others) have experienced is your pupils reacting to screen content. Bias light keeps your pupils from changing so much, thus you "barely notice it". It's your pupils floating, not the blacks.
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post #13220 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by fmalczewski View Post
If you're watching in a completely (or very near) dark room, then what you (and others) have experienced is your pupils reacting to screen content. Bias light keeps your pupils from changing so much, thus you "barely notice it". It's your pupils floating, not the blacks.
Can you explain why the 64F8500 doesn't have this phenomenon or why the Kuro didnt have this problem on the exact same scene? I did a side by side comparison as well. Still notice it on the ZT60.

FYI I'm at 2000 hours @ 65"
Gamma 2.4
Pro 2; D-nice night settings

ps: Its only on certain movies and certain scenes. Other movies with similar apl do not exhibit this behaviour. I would relate it to the source being the issue ( Mastering issue perhaps ) but the F8500 I have currently setup beside the ZT60 doesn't exhibit it or the Kuro :S
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post #13221 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 10:44 AM
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Darker blacks.

(Or like fzigen just wrote, one or more of your settings. I ran with THX Cinema for quite a while, now I'm using S&V. And I turn just about everything off that can/should be turned off.)

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post #13222 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Can you explain why the 64F8500 doesn't have this phenomenon or why the Kuro didnt have this problem on the exact same scene? I did a side by side comparison as well. Still notice it on the ZT60.

FYI I'm at 2000 hours @ 65"
Gamma 2.4
Pro 2; D-nice night settings

ps: Its only on certain movies and certain scenes. Other movies with similar apl do not exhibit this behaviour. I would relate it to the source being the issue ( Mastering issue perhaps ) but the F8500 I have currently setup beside the ZT60 doesn't exhibit it or the Kuro :S
It could be the settings. I had my ZT60 for almost a year and I don't see any of this phenomenon on THX Cinema, cnet and the sound&vision settings
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post #13223 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Can you explain why the 64F8500 doesn't have this phenomenon or why the Kuro didnt have this problem on the exact same scene? I did a side by side comparison as well. Still notice it on the ZT60.

FYI I'm at 2000 hours @ 65"
Gamma 2.4
Pro 2; D-nice night settings

ps: Its only on certain movies and certain scenes. Other movies with similar apl do not exhibit this behaviour. I would relate it to the source being the issue ( Mastering issue perhaps ) but the F8500 I have currently setup beside the ZT60 doesn't exhibit it or the Kuro :S

What movies/scenes ? I will check it out on my VT if I have them. I still believe it is either source related or pupil related as mentioned above. The Panasonic panel driving method does not float blacks, the Samsung method does.

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post #13224 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 04:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fzigen View Post
It could be the settings. I had my ZT60 for almost a year and I don't see any of this phenomenon on THX Cinema, cnet and the sound&vision settings
Cant be settings.

I have CNET settings on Cinema.

D-nice settings on Pro 1 and 2.

Even used Sound&Vision settings.

Visible on all settings.

I msged the member who also experienced it and he said it was visible on all picture modes and settings as well. BUT, when gamma was raised from 2.4 to 2.6, the black letterbox bars remained consistent.

So I tried it out and Voila. The letterbox bars stayed the same shade. No fluctuations. Right now I have night mode on 2.6. It does crush a bit of low end detail but its negligible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post
What movies/scenes ? I will check it out on my VT if I have them. I still believe it is either source related or pupil related as mentioned above. The Panasonic panel driving method does not float blacks, the Samsung method does.
Off the top of my head,

Constantine
Punisher: WarZone
Daybreakers

Majorirty of low apl scenes will have this issue expect when gamma is raised to 2.6 or higher.

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post #13225 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 04:50 PM
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Ironic thing is, though the Samsung F8500 floats blacks ( albeit less now after multiple firmware updates ) i don't notice this issue at all on the F8500


Im starting to think its a person to person thing. Like how some folks can notice motion blur or phosphor trails or even lag between 40 and 50 ms.

FWIW, I can't notice any one of those issues if my life depended on it.
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post #13226 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 05:08 PM
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Music,

Have you ever validated your brightness setting with a pluge pattern ? The fact that gamma impacts the black bars indicates to me that your are not seeing reference black with the black bars. Gamma effects things between reference black and your white point. It shouldn't impact reference black. Putting in settings from another set regardless of where they came from is not reliable as you probably know .

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post #13227 of 13464 Old 01-03-2015, 10:03 PM
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Can anyone tell in which country their ZT60 is manufactured? At one stage (a few years ago) Panasonic stopped producing plasma's in Japan, and set up a factory I think in Malaysia.
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post #13228 of 13464 Old 01-04-2015, 01:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Ironic thing is, though the Samsung F8500 floats blacks ( albeit less now after multiple firmware updates ) i don't notice this issue at all on the F8500


Im starting to think its a person to person thing. Like how some folks can notice motion blur or phosphor trails or even lag between 40 and 50 ms.

FWIW, I can't notice any one of those issues if my life depended on it.

Which set do you prefer for OTA/ Cable tv content?
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post #13229 of 13464 Old 01-04-2015, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by espghia View Post
Can anyone tell in which country their ZT60 is manufactured? At one stage (a few years ago) Panasonic stopped producing plasma's in Japan, and set up a factory I think in Malaysia.
The front glass and the panel were manufactured and laminated in an autoclave in Japan - I believe it was assembled in Mexico - should be on the back of the TV.

Panasonic TC-P65ZT60 - Oppo BDP-103D - Panasonic DMP-BDT220 - Toshiba HD-DVD-3A - OPPO DV-981HD - Harmony 880
Onkyo TX-NR809 --- Definitive Technology - Studio Monitor 65 (2) - CS8040HD - Studio Monitor 45 (2) - Super Cube 6000
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post #13230 of 13464 Old 01-04-2015, 09:08 AM
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3D Glasses TY-ER3D4MU

I picked up a pair of the Panasonic TY-ER3D4MU 3dD glasses and have been comparing them to the TY-ER3D5MU that came with the TC-P65ZT60. I love the ability to charge instead of replacing the battery witch is a pain......
I feel the TY-ER3D5MU that came with the set are slightly brighter and crisper. Then I test the TY-ER3D4MU and I feel they are brighter and crisper.
With active 3D glasses from the same manufacture is there actually a difference or is it just my eyes playing tricks on me?

Thanks Newbie

Last edited by Tajee; 01-04-2015 at 09:14 AM.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Panasonic Viera Tc P65zt60 65 Inch Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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