Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 444 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13291 of 13318 Old 01-15-2015, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Iamtheonewhoknocks99 View Post
Do I call the service guy again?
Whether you call him in for the buzz is your call, always possible it could be reduced a bit. Doubt there's anything that can be done about your green line, short of getting a different tv.
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post #13292 of 13318 Old 01-16-2015, 12:30 AM
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only the smart people never used the ZT60 and sold if for a huge profit.
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post #13293 of 13318 Old 01-16-2015, 08:11 AM
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OK, let's get back to the noob setup questions. I was an Amazon Prime member for years and, after the price increase last year, decided to switch back to Netflix. I've been using my PS3 to stream the Prime content but, since the ZT has the Netflix app, I'm considering using that instead. It means setting up another activity on my Harmony remote but it would reduce the wear & tear on the PS3, eliminate the time & extra steps involved in getting it up & running and eliminate the additional noise the PS3 makes.

I could never get ARC to function correctly, so I'll be running audio from the ZT to my AVR via optical cable. Theoretically, this should provide identical audio (5.1) as running HDMI from my PS3. I used the app a bit last night (no audio) and noticed the picture looked terrible, which was a reminder that the apps are assigned their own picture mode. It was on Custom so I switched it to my calibrated mode (Pro 1), again remembering the THX isn't available. This should theoretically provide the same picture quality as using an outboard device, right? One consideration is that my PS3 is connected via ethernet while the ZT is using WiFi (only 3 ports on the router). I should probably change that.

Has anyone done any critical comparisons between the app and outside streaming devices? Any opinions?

EDIT: Netflix Smart TV Apps Are Down--Hmmmm, what a coincidence.


Last edited by repete66211; 01-16-2015 at 09:49 AM.
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post #13294 of 13318 Old 01-16-2015, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
OK, let's get back to the noob setup questions. I was an Amazon Prime member for years and, after the price increase last year, decided to switch back to Netflix. I've been using my PS3 to stream the Prime content but, since the ZT has the Netflix app, I'm considering using that instead. It means setting up another activity on my Harmony remote but it would reduce the wear & tear on the PS3, eliminate the time & extra steps involved in getting it up & running and eliminate the additional noise the PS3 makes....
Has anyone done any critical comparisons between the app and outside streaming devices? Any opinions?

EDIT: Netflix Smart TV Apps Are Down--Hmmmm, what a coincidence.

Been a while since I've posted here, but I may have posted some pics/opinions of the native Netflix app, and issues with wifi vs. wired and switching resolutions (wifi would not switch from SD to HD at times...may have been issue with Netflix and many people logging in during snow storm last year as well), somewhere in this thread. I also have Netflix and Amazon Prime accounts, as well as a Roku 3. For what its worth, the Roku seems to navigate through the menus faster, but at times it seems like the native app has better picture quality. The settings are very different, and I've even felt like the Roku looks better using the "Native" colorspace, contrary to Rec.709, per professional calibrations. That said, I think the native app's PQ can be very good (IMHO..."The Blacklist" series comes to mind), but may take alot of adjusting. FWIW, I'd say that I've been able to get "The Blacklist" image to look better on the native app, than my OTA feed.

However after over a year of constantly tweaking my settings, mainly for DishNetwork use, I've decided to schedule a calibration with ChadB. Hopefully something can be done to find a happy medium between the stations.
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post #13295 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 10:44 AM
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Netflix has always used the PS/3 PS/4 as its "innovation platform". In other words, that system gets the latest updates and enhancements. The players built in to TVs and Blu-ray players often do not and often don't get updated. Many times the processors in the devices are not powerful enough to run the latest UI changes that the PS/3 can. I can't speak to how picture quality could be impacted if at all, but just something to be aware of.

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Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post
OK, let's get back to the noob setup questions. I was an Amazon Prime member for years and, after the price increase last year, decided to switch back to Netflix. I've been using my PS3 to stream the Prime content but, since the ZT has the Netflix app, I'm considering using that instead. It means setting up another activity on my Harmony remote but it would reduce the wear & tear on the PS3, eliminate the time & extra steps involved in getting it up & running and eliminate the additional noise the PS3 makes.

I could never get ARC to function correctly, so I'll be running audio from the ZT to my AVR via optical cable. Theoretically, this should provide identical audio (5.1) as running HDMI from my PS3. I used the app a bit last night (no audio) and noticed the picture looked terrible, which was a reminder that the apps are assigned their own picture mode. It was on Custom so I switched it to my calibrated mode (Pro 1), again remembering the THX isn't available. This should theoretically provide the same picture quality as using an outboard device, right? One consideration is that my PS3 is connected via ethernet while the ZT is using WiFi (only 3 ports on the router). I should probably change that.

Has anyone done any critical comparisons between the app and outside streaming devices? Any opinions?

EDIT: Netflix Smart TV Apps Are Down--Hmmmm, what a coincidence.
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post #13296 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 10:55 AM
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You don't understand how HDR works at all. You don't get 800 nits of full screen brightness. Just smaller areas of the screen that can go brighter to more fully reflect real world viewing.

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Originally Posted by forlorn View Post
The enhanced CR alone will be an upgrade over the ZT60. All that other stuff is just window dressing (especially high dynamic range...unless you regularly watch in a sunlit room...who needs 800 nits of brightness in a home theater?).
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post #13297 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 11:04 AM
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And what kind of gobbledygook is "a lot more infinite contrast ratio" ? It's either infinite or it isn't. I argue that the human eye couldn't detect an infinite contrast ratio even if such a thing existed anyway.
You are confusing two different things. Contrast RATIO, vs dynamic range. RATIO will always be infinite if you are dividing by zero. So if your black level is 0, then the contrast RATIO will be infinite regardless of the light output amount.

RANGE is a completely different value. That is the RANGE between the lowest amount of light and the most amount of light. The more range there is, the more natural and lifelike your image will appear. Yes, there is a point where it will be too much but we are a long way away from that because the additional brightness is NOT used for the full screen but only for small sections.
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post #13298 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post
You are confusing two different things. Contrast RATIO, vs dynamic range. RATIO will always be infinite if you are dividing by zero. So if your black level is 0, then the contrast RATIO will be infinite regardless of the light output amount.

No I'm not. I'm complaining about the incorrect use of English. Infinite means extending indefinitely. Therefore nothing can be "more infinite".
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post #13299 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 02:40 PM
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No I'm not. I'm complaining about the incorrect use of English. Infinite means extending indefinitely. Therefore nothing can be "more infinite".
No you weren't. You said:

"I argue that the human eye couldn't detect an infinite contrast ratio even if such a thing existed anyway."

That is not arguing incorrect english.
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post #13300 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post
No you weren't. You said:

"I argue that the human eye couldn't detect an infinite contrast ratio even if such a thing existed anyway."

That is not arguing incorrect english.

The human eye couldn't detect an infinite contrast ratio, It has definite limits. For instance a shark can detect a light 10 times dimmer than the human eye. Eagles Hawks and Buzzards have eyesight 3 to 4 times sharper than ours. Light has physical characteristics which aren't unlimited.Visible light is usually defined as having a wavelength in the range of 400 nanometeres(nm), or 400×10−9 m, to 700 nanometres. Infinite means unlimited so how can something with limits be unlimited? There can never be anything that is "more infinite"

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post #13301 of 13318 Old 01-18-2015, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald View Post
The human eye couldn't detect an infinite contrast ratio, It has definite limits. For instance a shark can detect a light 10 times dimmer than the human eye. Eagles Hawks and Buzzards have eyesight 3 to 4 times sharper than ours. Light has physical characteristics which aren't unlimited.Visible light is usually defined as having a wavelength in the range of 400 nanometeres(nm), or 400×10−9 m, to 700 nanometres. Infinite means unlimited so how can something with limits be unlimited? There can never be anything that is "more infinite"
And now you contradict yourself to try and twist your way out of the argument you lost. By your definition infinite is infinite, and so therefore of course the human eye can detect it since the eye can detect black and non black. At least be consistent which side you are arguing, lol.
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post #13302 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by LeKnobber View Post
And now you contradict yourself to try and twist your way out of the argument you lost. By your definition infinite is infinite, and so therefore of course the human eye can detect it since the eye can detect black and non black. At least be consistent which side you are arguing, lol.

The definition of infinite is not my definition, it's the Oxford English Dictionary definition.


The human eye cannot detect an infinite range of light waves only part of the full range, and the full range is not infinite. Simple physics.


Contrast ratio has no meaning other than in the flat panel industry where it only has meaning as a marketing term.


From Wiki...


The contrast ratio is a property of a display system, defined as the ratio of the luminance of the brightest color (white) to that of the darkest color (black) that the system is capable of producing. A high contrast ratio is a desired aspect of any display. It has similarities with dynamic range.
There is no official, standardized way to measure contrast ratio for a system or its parts, nor is there a standard for defining "Contrast Ratio" that is accepted by any standards organization so ratings provided by different manufacturers of display devices are not necessarily comparable to each other due to differences in method of measurement, operation, and unstated variables.[1] Manufacturers have traditionally favored measurement methods that isolate the device from the system, whereas other designers have more often taken the effect of the room into account. An ideal room would absorb all the light reflecting from a projection screen or emitted by a CRT, and the only light seen in the room would come from the display device. With such a room, the contrast ratio of the image would be the same as the contrast ratio of the device. Real rooms reflect some of the light back to the displayed image, lowering the contrast ratio seen in the image.
Static contrast ratio is the luminosity ratio comparing the brightest and darkest color the system is capable of producing simultaneously at any instant of time, while dynamic contrast ratio is the luminosity ratio comparing the brightest and darkest color the system is capable of producing over time (while the picture is moving). Moving from a system that displays a static motionless image to a system that displays a dynamic, changing picture slightly complicates the definition of the contrast ratio, due to the need to take into account the extra temporal dimension to the measuring process.


There is no such thing as an infinite contrast ratio in the real world so how could any flat panel display have it?


There is no need for a flat panel to display a light brighter than the human eye can view without damage. It is possible to damage the human eye with an excessively bright light, hence the reason I still say there is no need for a display to be brighter than the ZT if viewed in a darkened room as most videophiles do.


OLED is a great display technology and while I admire it. I don't admire corruption of the English language or ridiculous meaningless techno babble as in "more infinite contrast ratio"

Last edited by RoyMacDonald; 01-19-2015 at 04:51 AM.
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post #13303 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 02:52 PM
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I thought we all understood that what we are calling 'infinite contrast ratio' is simply a euphemism for a TV with a contrast ratio where the black side of the equation can achieve true Zero luminance - to suggest its truly infinite or that its implications is that the range is truly infinite is naïve. In semantic land as well as mathematics, division by Zero does not necessarily lead to an infinite result and is subject to definition in the functions being used.
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post #13304 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 04:48 PM
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I thought we all understood that what we are calling 'infinite contrast ratio' is simply a euphemism for a TV with a contrast ratio where the black side of the equation can achieve true Zero luminance - to suggest its truly infinite or that its implications is that the range is truly infinite is naïve. In semantic land as well as mathematics, division by Zero does not necessarily lead to an infinite result and is subject to definition in the functions being used.

It's the recent addition of "infinite to "contrast ratio" that gets me, and then to add "more to "contrast ratio" in an explanation to give " more infinite contrast ratio" as an explanation of OLED tech was just going too far for me. "Contrast ratio" seems a perfectly adequate description in my view.
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post #13305 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 05:21 PM
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I haven't posted in a long time. I have no idea what I did to my ZT60, maybe it was break in period? but the picture is amazing! I am using CNET settings with WARM 1 and I can't believe how awesome this TV is. I have absolutely no interest in LEDs or 4Ks. I wont get another TV for years.
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post #13306 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by RoyMacDonald View Post
It's the recent addition of "infinite to "contrast ratio" that gets me, and then to add "more to "contrast ratio" in an explanation to give " more infinite contrast ratio" as an explanation of OLED tech was just going too far for me. "Contrast ratio" seems a perfectly adequate description in my view.
its just a play on the math, but its not accurate - nothing infinite about it - just makes a catchy term for the CR achievement.
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post #13307 of 13318 Old 01-19-2015, 07:51 PM
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There is no need for a flat panel to display a light brighter than the human eye can view without damage.
Seriously, did you actually post that?
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post #13308 of 13318 Old 01-20-2015, 02:19 AM
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I haven't posted in a long time. I have no idea what I did to my ZT60, maybe it was break in period? but the picture is amazing! I am using CNET settings with WARM 1 and I can't believe how awesome this TV is. I have absolutely no interest in LEDs or 4Ks. I wont get another TV for years.

What? You mean you've been enjoying your tv this whole time without checking in with us? Shame on you
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post #13309 of 13318 Old 01-20-2015, 09:22 AM
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its just a play on the math, but its not accurate - nothing infinite about it - just makes a catchy term for the CR achievement.

Exactly. Sometimes I think there is a danger of people forgetting that.


I read the AVS forum pages to be informed on the latest and greatest tech. I bought my 9th gen Kuro and ZT after reading well informed reviews. I bought the ZT over the LG 55" OLED because despite the marketing blurb I thought the ZT had the better picture given my viewing conditions. That may change when I see the new LG 4k OLED, but I won't be buying it on the basis of the marketing hype which, as may be obvious from my comments, I thought was nonsensical.
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post #13310 of 13318 Old 01-20-2015, 10:44 AM
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Just listened to the CES 2015 Wrap up video and Scott Wilkinson commented on another piece of odd English from the show. On the TCL stand was this gem..."The Worlds Largest 110" 4k Curved TV."
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post #13311 of 13318 Old 01-24-2015, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Rosso_Corsa View Post
Well, I plan to vote with my dollars and go buy back that ZT60 I returned.

However, the unit I had, while pixel perfect and as quiet as I've ever heard a plasma, did suffer from two very faint vertical bands on the right edge of the screen. It was not visible at 75% white, nor at 100% white, but at 50% grey I can faintly make it out on a lower contrast picture setting, like standard with contrast turned down to 50% (I would use this for gaming or cable TV with static logos). It's barely visible in program material, but it's there and still a flaw. I checked my parent's two year old 50"U50 Panasonic low end plasma and it has a very similar case of banding on the right side only.

I asked about this banding earlier in the thread and someone mentioned it affected early production models. The ZT I returned had a production date of August 2013. Doesn't seem that early to me, sounds like a mid to late unit.

My question, again, is do they all have this band? I want to decide whether it's worth trying another new panel or if they all have it, then I'll go buy back my old one because it's quiet and no dead pixels.

It's similar to the following video I found online though the video flickers so much it's hard to see whether it's exactly the same thing.

video
You're complaining about that!? You call that banding? I would trade for that in an instant

You should see the crap I get when watching hockey on my ZT60
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post #13312 of 13318 Old 01-25-2015, 05:33 PM
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I am with you 100%. I just walked into the living room and my family was watching an NBA game and I was blown away with how amazing it looked. So happy with my ZT picture, best TV I have ever owned. It will definitely get me through the next few years until HDR OLED is reasonable price and with imperfections worked out.

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I haven't posted in a long time. I have no idea what I did to my ZT60, maybe it was break in period? but the picture is amazing! I am using CNET settings with WARM 1 and I can't believe how awesome this TV is. I have absolutely no interest in LEDs or 4Ks. I wont get another TV for years.
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post #13313 of 13318 Old Today, 06:13 AM
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Well, I am celebrating my 1 year anniversary with my 60ZT60. I am still amazed by this TV. No buzz, no IR or burn-in and no banding, just the best damn picture of any TV I have ever seen! A few weeks ago, a co-worker said he bought a Sony LCD TV and said he thought it had a fantastic picture, so I invited him over to check out my ZT. I put in the Scorpions 3D Blu ray (at his request - we are both "rockers") and cranked up the stereo. After it was over, I asked him what he thought. He just said "I'm jealous." I then asked him if the PQ compared to his Sony, he said the Sony is brighter but my ZT was so much sharper and the 3D was "cool.". I know I could have picked a better Blu ray (my collection keeps getting larger) to demonstrate this TV, but the PQ simply speaks for itself, no matter what the content. I also watch a lot of hockey, you can see the skate "cuts" in the ice clearly. I can't wait to watch the Superbowl tonight.
I'm still like a kid with a new toy with my ZT. Definitely a happy camper!
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post #13314 of 13318 Old Today, 07:16 AM
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^^^Well said Oldfool, I enjoyed reading your write up. And congratulations on the one year anniversary with your ZT60. What a fine panel these Panasonic TVs are.

Continue to enjoy!
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post #13315 of 13318 Old Today, 11:18 AM
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Feel the same. It's certainly going to take something special to surpass the awesome picture quality of the ZT.
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Originally Posted by Oldfool View Post
Well, I am celebrating my 1 year anniversary with my 60ZT60. I am still amazed by this TV. No buzz, no IR or burn-in and no banding, just the best damn picture of any TV I have ever seen! I'm still like a kid with a new toy with my ZT. Definitely a happy camper!
How many hours are you at? I've had my ZT for 1 year and have 2,940 hours on my set. I love my ZT and wouldn't trade it for any TV currently available. But this set been prone to IR more than any other Panasonic plasma TV I've owned. Without question, the picture is the best of any TV I've owned. But seeing a channel 5 logo in the lower right corner the screen when I start up Netflix is a bit concerning. And I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever go away.
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post #13317 of 13318 Old Today, 02:24 PM
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How many hours are you at? I've had my ZT for 1 year and have 2,940 hours on my set. I love my ZT and wouldn't trade it for any TV currently available. But this set been prone to IR more than any other Panasonic plasma TV I've owned. Without question, the picture is the best of any TV I've owned. But seeing a channel 5 logo in the lower right corner the screen when I start up Netflix is a bit concerning. And I'm beginning to wonder if it will ever go away.

I'm at 2,700 hours and about 3 moths to go before my 1st anniversary of ZTness. I not having any IR issues as far as I can see. we do watch a variety of content though and the main BBC channels (that we use the most) don't use logos so that must help. It seems to be mostly USA children's channels that use heavy white logos. All British channels that use logos seem to use semi transparent ones. I can't figure out why any channel needs to use a logo myself. I always know what channel I've turned over to as I do it from the on screen menu or from memory by typing in the channel number.


We have Sky cable by the way.
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post #13318 of 13318 Old Today, 04:10 PM
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Just had both of my ZTs calibrated by the class act ChadB today, just in time for the pre-game, and after having the sets for over a year, its like having new TVs.
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