Official ZT60 Owners Thread - Page 454 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13591 of 14681 Old 04-25-2015, 03:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
It seems like most of the industry is determined to keep LED as the default TV technology, and just keep tarting it up with gimmicks. At the end of the day though, you can't polish a turd.
As they say down here in the south, it's like putting lipstick on a pig
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post #13592 of 14681 Old 04-25-2015, 05:37 AM
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Originally Posted by antennahead View Post
as they say down here in the south, it's like putting lipstick on a pig :d
yes!
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post #13593 of 14681 Old 04-25-2015, 05:58 AM
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yes!
Or like you guys say ................. "he's all hat and no cattle"
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post #13594 of 14681 Old 04-25-2015, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
It seems like most of the industry is determined to keep LED as the default TV technology, and just keep tarting it up with gimmicks. At the end of the day though, you can't polish a turd.
That's only because LCD/LED has the biggest profit margins, and of course most CE Mfg'ers don't mind sacrificing superior PQ in order to achieve bigger margins. Pioneer & Panasonic both had the very best displays but ultimately they could not win in the "race to the bottom" game.
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post #13595 of 14681 Old 04-27-2015, 07:54 PM
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I just moved the ZT but have lost the screws to mount the TV back on to its pedestal. Can I buy replacement screws any where or does anyone know the thread size and length? Thanks.
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post #13596 of 14681 Old 04-28-2015, 03:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fete26 View Post
I just moved the ZT but have lost the screws to mount the TV back on to its pedestal. Can I buy replacement screws any where or does anyone know the thread size and length? Thanks.
It looks like they are 5 x 1.0 x 16 mm long. They could be 1.25 thread pitch but most common for that small bolt is 1.0. Make sure you can easily screw them in by hand more than a couple turns before mounting to check for proper thread pitch.

Here's a link to the operators manual. Look on page 11.

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP60ZT60.PDF
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post #13597 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
For those of you who know these sets well, is the Cinema mode essentially just an extra Professional mode or is there a difference between the two? Say, for example, if I pasted over settings from Professional Mode to Cinema mode, would they still measure the same? They LOOK the same by eye, but was just curious. Custom, on the other hand, is a whole different palette.
AFAIK, you will not be able to paste in all your Pro settings - as a preset, the adjustments you can make in Cinema are limited. Custom is designed to allow similar adjustments to Pro, but is nowhere near as accurate.

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post #13598 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 05:35 PM
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Thank You!

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Originally Posted by whipit View Post
It looks like they are 5 x 1.0 x 16 mm long. They could be 1.25 thread pitch but most common for that small bolt is 1.0. Make sure you can easily screw them in by hand more than a couple turns before mounting to check for proper thread pitch.

Here's a link to the operators manual. Look on page 11.

http://service.us.panasonic.com/OPER.../TCP60ZT60.PDF
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post #13599 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 06:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
For those of you who know these sets well, is the Cinema mode essentially just an extra Professional mode or is there a difference between the two? Say, for example, if I pasted over settings from Professional Mode to Cinema mode, would they still measure the same? They LOOK the same by eye, but was just curious. Custom, on the other hand, is a whole different palette.
Custom will also LOOK the same if you adjust contrast and sharpness (not brightness) differently - it's as if they simply had different starting points for those two controls. Since I'm aware of that, I treat it as an extra Pro mode. Try it with identical settings for both and adjust contrast so that they look the same, then maybe sharpness, and it's very hard to see any difference by eye. I'm told they calibrate differently, though. Just speaking from my experience.
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post #13600 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
AFAIK, you will not be able to paste in all your Pro settings - as a preset, the adjustments you can make in Cinema are limited. Custom is designed to allow similar adjustments to Pro, but is nowhere near as accurate.
You may want to look at your TV settings and retract your statement. That is if the ZT and the VT have the same picture options and I'm assuming they do.

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post #13601 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
You may want to look at your TV settings and retract your statement. That is if the ZT and the VT have the same picture options and I'm assuming they do.
"Retract my statement" ?! This is an internet forum chum, not a court of law . If you wish to continue the formalities however, I would respectfully decline to retract my statement, as it happens to be factually correct. There are no "Advanced settings" available on the ZT in "Cinema", so you are unable plug in a lot of the Pro settings.

Perhaps your poverty spec VT is different ? You know what they say about assuming - it makes an ass out of u............

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post #13602 of 14681 Old 04-29-2015, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
"Retract my statement" ?! This is an internet forum chum, not a court of law . If you wish to continue the formalities however, I would respectfully decline to retract my statement, as it happens to be factually correct. There are no "Advanced settings" available on the ZT in "Cinema", so you are unable plug in a lot of the Pro settings.

Perhaps your poverty spec VT is different ? You know what they say about assuming - it makes an ass out of u............
LOL!! That really got under your skin that you had to try and undermine the VT in the process? Well, it seems the ZT would be the poverty tv since it is not capable of advance settings for "cinema" mode.
Anyway, I meant no disrespect, but lighten up a bit.

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post #13603 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 02:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ah_1014 View Post
LOL!! That really got under your skin that you had to try and undermine the VT in the process? Well, it seems the ZT would be the poverty tv since it is not capable of advance settings for "cinema" mode.
Anyway, I meant no disrespect, but lighten up a bit.
The ZT doesn't need advanced settings for Cinema mode - I'll stick to my isf calibrated Pro mode thanks. Any other assumptions you want to make about a TV that you don't even own, before you head back to the VT forum ?

I mean no disrespect, but butt out if you don't know what are talking about. My original post was designed to be a genuine, helpful response to a question asked by a ZT owner, not a negative, snidey, pointless pop by somebody who doesn't even have the first clue.

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post #13604 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
The ZT doesn't need advanced settings for Cinema mode - I'll stick to my isf calibrated Pro mode thanks. Any other assumptions you want to make about a TV that you don't even own, before you head back to the VT forum ?

I mean no disrespect, but butt out if you don't know what are talking about. My original post was designed to be a genuine, helpful response to a question asked by a ZT owner, not a negative, snidey, pointless pop by somebody who doesn't even have the first clue.
I wasn't aware having multiple picture modes to calibrate was a bad thing? Seems like you still can't get over it, so I'll admit I was wrong and apologize if you feel I was trying to undermine your forum reputation, whatever that is worth.

Have a great day!

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post #13605 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 01:02 PM
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Cloverleaf, I think you are wrong. I have a 60ZT60 and Cinema mode does indeed have both Advanced picture and Pro settings, exactly the same as the ISF Pro modes. When I go into the setup menus, I do not see any settings available in the Professional modes that are not also available in Cinema mode.
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post #13606 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Scandy View Post
Cloverleaf, I think you are wrong. I have a 60ZT60 and Cinema mode does indeed have both Advanced picture and Pro settings, exactly the same as the ISF Pro modes. When I go into the setup menus, I do not see any settings available in the Professional modes that are not also available in Cinema mode.
Yes, that's correct. Cinema and Pro have exactly the same options. Just checked on my 65ZT60.

I was so happy without HDR...
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post #13607 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 02:47 PM
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This is a very interesting article about using settings from professional calibrators and some conclusions .


http://referencehometheater.com/2013...ults-compared/

I was so happy without HDR...
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post #13608 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 04:25 PM
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My apologies for not getting back soon to ya'll. I am not an expert, professional reviewer, ISF certified or a calibrator. I know how critical some people can be here at AVS so I just wanted to say that this is my personal experience and based off what I have experienced over the last year with the set and customer service. Thanks for your time, knowledge, suggestions, personal experiences, and opinions on this matter, it has not been easy to deal with nor easy to part ways with. Its like im giving up a child lol

I will say this about my ZT60 since I see some discussing it...my experience is that the IR comes on fast but goes fast as well. Which is a huge plus. I have been super busy with work over the last year (just doesn't stop) as well as trying to further my education. Bought this about a year and some change ago and im only at 991 hours...lol. So for all I know around 1000 hours or from what Im seeing lately even 2000 hours it could be worse. Here's the thing about the separation..for 3300$ I dont expect that to even be an issue. Its damaged good basically, though it has not gotten any worse over the past year, its something Im not willing to pay for. OLED right now, yes is new, but also is receiving rave reviews from consumers, and experts, thought they would really like to see some quirks worked out but that comes with every new tech and even old tech (plasma for example) introduces its own set of issues. With OLED I also look at it like this, we all know the issues going on with them, but if we were to list over the last 10 years the best sets cons you would think they were junk. The almighty kuro (which I adored) had its own set of issues which you can still see being complained about today. My point is theres going to be issues with everything, which has always been discussed on AVS or else no one would buy anything.
Panasonics HORRENDOUS customer service is another reason the ZT makes me sick, the PQ is astonishing, gorgeous, and nothing short of amazing..I wish my OCD and financial areas werent on the negative side right now or else it would stay. The buzz, fan noise is back which was previously already "fixed", IR (which fades quick from menus but games stay on for a good amount) also babying the panel constantly unlike my KURO which seemed Immune to IR is extremely annoying to the point i find my self rushing all the time to get a menu off the screen or get my XBOX one dash off the screen when switching a blu ray, and of course the separation which also aids the buzz too is just too much for something I paid good money for. If I got this set for under 3K when the 60" was going for 2200$, I wouldnt even be here.


Now does the separation affect PQ? No. Does it contribute to the buzz? From my personal view and owning the set, Yes it does. One day I took the palm of my hand and was just curious to see if the panel would stick again (the day was somewhat humid) and to my surprise, it did, but instantly separated again. Would Gorilla glue help? Possibly but IMO the glass has settled unevenly on the panel so I think trying to get it hold would put more stress on it. My theory is that the panel was bonded at the factory and while it was being boxed up for sale from the company but somewhere along the line (got mine still in the bitter end of winter, like mid March time) I believe the weather was a big culprit in the separation process, either that or they were boxed to quickly and QC was lacking especially since they were cutting jobs and losing those factories anyway.

Well good news which is also bad news IMO is that the most recent update I received Friday was information about a full refund being in the works, the lady I spoke with is just waiting on Panny. I have been calling religiously since it took me 6 weeks of non stop calls to get to this point. They did mention to me before this last call, I believe it was the week prior that a refund or replacement would be implemented. Well I simply told them that unless they are building me a custom ZT, or have one for replacement there is no way Im trading a diamond for a rock. The rock being a FALD or LED set.

Left side:Intact fully


Top right corner (above view) runs a good 1/2foot across the top of the panel


Right top corner (side view), runs down about 1/2 foot down the right side, gets smaller as it goes down.


It stinks that I have to go this route but the good news is something is already out on the Market that beats its black levels, now if color, motion, uniformity, and calibration can just get better, im all in, im already all in but just not purchasing until I see if anything will be fixed when they release the flat OLED hopefully in August. Over the 3 gens OLED has been out now, they have improved the panel, not drastically but gradually which is good news.

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post #13609 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 04:49 PM
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Also briefly owning the VT60, it did not exhibit this degree of buzzing, or fan noise. And also no separation ever reported on the VT sets. I think thats why it bother me so much. Anyway happy trails guys and I look forward to your feedback.
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post #13610 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scandy View Post
Cloverleaf, I think you are wrong. I have a 60ZT60 and Cinema mode does indeed have both Advanced picture and Pro settings, exactly the same as the ISF Pro modes. When I go into the setup menus, I do not see any settings available in the Professional modes that are not also available in Cinema mode.
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
Yes, that's correct. Cinema and Pro have exactly the same options. Just checked on my 65ZT60.
Thank you guys for confirming something I thought would be identical on both ZT and VT. I had to pretty much take his word for it since I did not have a ZT, but I did find it odd that the ZT did not have advanced picture modes for cinema mode while the VT does. And I was not going to start a back and forth banter with Mr. defensive, oh boy was he ever.

I wonder what he'll have to say now?

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post #13611 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 08:01 PM
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GiveMeThe...sounds like a plan. How much extra money will you have to pitch-in to get the same screen size?
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post #13612 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scandy View Post
Cloverleaf, I think you are wrong. I have a 60ZT60 and Cinema mode does indeed have both Advanced picture and Pro settings, exactly the same as the ISF Pro modes. When I go into the setup menus, I do not see any settings available in the Professional modes that are not also available in Cinema mode.
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Thank you guys for confirming something I thought would be identical on both ZT and VT. I had to pretty much take his word for it since I did not have a ZT, but I did find it odd that the ZT did not have advanced picture modes for cinema mode while the VT does. And I was not going to start a back and forth banter with Mr. defensive, oh boy was he ever.

I wonder what he'll have to say now?

I'll tell you what I have to say now chum - I am not wrong . My suspicion is that this is a US / EU model difference issue, as the advanced settings are definitely, certainly, definitively, beyond doubt NOT available on Cinema on UK sets.

If it is available on US sets, then I'm pleased for you, but don't see the point. Why would anyone want to calibrate the Cinema preset, when the Pro option gives you the most accurate calibration ?

Panasonic ZT65 (isf calibrated) / Cambridge Audio 752BD / Sky+ HD / Pioneer LX55 / Tannoy Arena 5.1 / Dual CS506 / Rega Mini Fono / Isotek Mira / Antimode 8033 / QED + Audioquest Cables / Virgin Media 50MB Network /
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post #13613 of 14681 Old 04-30-2015, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli View Post
This is a very interesting article about using settings from professional calibrators and some conclusions .


http://referencehometheater.com/2013...ults-compared/

Errr......As I was saying. Don't calibrate Cinema, calibrate Pro.

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post #13614 of 14681 Old 05-01-2015, 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
I'll tell you what I have to say now chum - I am not wrong . My suspicion is that this is a US / EU model difference issue, as the advanced settings are definitely, certainly, definitively, beyond doubt NOT available on Cinema on UK sets.

If it is available on US sets, then I'm pleased for you, but don't see the point. Why would anyone want to calibrate the Cinema preset, when the Pro option gives you the most accurate calibration ?
May be, but bear in mind that (at least in the US) there is Cinema (which apparently can be adjusted every which way but loose) and then there is THX Cinema, which is much more locked down. Maybe that's you're thinking of?
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post #13615 of 14681 Old 05-01-2015, 01:32 AM
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May be, but bear in mind that (at least in the US) there is Cinema (which apparently can be adjusted every which way but loose) and then there is THX Cinema, which is much more locked down. Maybe that's you're thinking of?
Nope. My English skills are sufficiently advanced to differentiate between "Cinema" and "THX Cinema", thanks all the same. Although you are correct to say that THX Cinema is even more locked down than Cinema is.

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post #13616 of 14681 Old 05-01-2015, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cloverleaf View Post
If it is available on US sets, then I'm pleased for you, but don't see the point. Why would anyone want to calibrate the Cinema preset, when the Pro option gives you the most accurate calibration ?
If you read the article that slimoli linked, it says that the CNET settings turned out to be the most accurate on their 2 sets, and the CNET settings were calibrated in Cinema mode!

However, I do agree with the article... when you duplicate others settings on your set, you will most likely make it worse rather than better.
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post #13617 of 14681 Old 05-01-2015, 10:15 AM
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If you read the article that slimoli linked, it says that the CNET settings turned out to be the most accurate on their 2 sets, and the CNET settings were calibrated in Cinema mode!

However, I do agree with the article... when you duplicate others settings on your set, you will most likely make it worse rather than better.

Sorry, but you seem to have totally misunderstood what the author actually said. If you had read and understood the article in full, you would know that the author went on to say that he would not use the cnet settings. This was partially due to the magenta push, and partly due to the Gamma tracking being out. He finished the article by confirming he calibrated the set he had on Pro.

As would any professional calibrator, in fact.

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post #13618 of 14681 Old 05-02-2015, 08:05 AM
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No, I did understand the article. I was trying to point out that sometimes it is a good thing to try to open your mind to other points of view that may be different from what you believe to be true.

Of course any calibrator will use the Pro modes. That is what they are for! However, it is true that cinema mode has every setting that is available in the Pro modes (at least in the US versions). If a calibrator used cinema mode to calibrate the set, he will most likely get the same results as using the Pro modes, the adjustments exactly are the same.

BTW, I was a video engineer for 35 years. Please do not insinuate that I don't understand things as well as you!
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post #13619 of 14681 Old 05-03-2015, 03:25 AM
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No, I did understand the article. I was trying to point out that sometimes it is a good thing to try to open your mind to other points of view that may be different from what you believe to be true.

Of course any calibrator will use the Pro modes. That is what they are for! However, it is true that cinema mode has every setting that is available in the Pro modes (at least in the US versions). If a calibrator used cinema mode to calibrate the set, he will most likely get the same results as using the Pro modes, the adjustments exactly are the same.

BTW, I was a video engineer for 35 years. Please do not insinuate that I don't understand things as well as you!
I wasn't "insinuating" anything chum. I was clearly stating that you didn't understand the article, due to your "support" for calibrating Cinema mode. For the avoidance of doubt, this is what the author of your article actually said:

"It also uses the Cinema mode as a preset instead of using the Professional1 or Professional2 modes that D-Nice does. Once we look at these in more detail later you’ll see why I would never actually use the settings from CNet on my display."


"As low as the overall errors are for the CNet settings, those few colors having large errors makes it the worst choice to me."

"After doing these measurements I calibrated my VT60 in Professional1 mode for myself. Unlike the preset modes, I want a gamma of 2.4 so I have darker shadow detail when I watch without any ambient light."


If as you say you were a video engineer for 35 years, you clearly were not a very good one, otherwise you would also understand that just having the same adjustments available on Cinema as on Pro would not automatically give you the same results That's a bit like saying a Ford Focus would give you the same results as a Ferrari, on the basis that they both have 4 wheels and an engine.

You have also failed to explain why a pro calibrator would also use the Pro settings rather than Cinema, if they give the same results I therefore see no evidence from any source for your assertion that my point of view is in any way wrong.

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post #13620 of 14681 Old 05-03-2015, 04:23 AM
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I'll tell you what I have to say now chum - I am not wrong . My suspicion is that this is a US / EU model difference issue, as the advanced settings are definitely, certainly, definitively, beyond doubt NOT available on Cinema on UK sets.

Yes, the US and UK sets have different cinema mode options.
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