Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 124 - AVS Forum
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post #3691 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I have a correction to make. I was looking over my calibration reports and I was in error when I said all subsequent sets after the review set got in the 40's, no more. I found one that I did that got 52.3 fL in Cal DAY mode, with cell light at 20 and contrast at 98. I will modify my posts. Sorry guys, I had a memory lapse!
Even that seems low for the 8500. Is that because you are aiming for that fl for a calibrated day mode or is that all you can actually get out of the panel? I thought the whole thing about the F8500 was it's ability to get super bright. Even if you are not looking to get a perfect calibration, can the panel get no brighter then that or it can but it just won't calibrate correctly?
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post #3692 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I think we can agree to disagree. I certainly don't want to appear to be Mr.Nasty and if you run the TVs at high cell and fear that heat will cause damage then go for it, just use caution that's all wink.gif If you look through the grills, the hot caps are placed at the top of the boards. Their heat goes straight up and does not affect other components (hence feeling very hot around those areas). It stands to reason that the chassis/grill is getting hot in those places - the whole grill is acting as a big heat sink.

If you start pulling air sideways, the heat from those caps will go over other components.

I'd be more concerned at 'core temps' where the thing shouldn't get too hot. The panel temp (mute - 7- 3 - 7 - enter) menu would be a good indicator of what's going on.

- I remember there was a post or so, in 1 of the 3 f8500 threads, that involved an F8500 owner talking with a Samsung rep (tech or agent) about mounting fans, who stated that - if certain component(s) didn't have a minimum temp, then they wouldn't work correctly (& affect proper performance & warranty)
- I don't know what the actual tech facts are on this

As for airflow - I do know for a fact it does come into play for correct PC airflow over components - I don't know if same applies to TVs??

Someone like Chad or Cleveland should be able to properly educate us about this...

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post #3693 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Correct. If your sources route through the AVR first you're all set.
ARC can be fussy so using optical makes things work 100% all the time.


Pie....

Do you use optical running from ARC hdmi to tv....do u still use the arc input and just run optical to set via AVR?
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post #3694 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 05:57 AM
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post #3695 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Ok, Cal Day is for a bright room but what fL do you aim for when it comes to dim, normal, viewing environments (not a bat cave)?
Cal Night to 35 fL?
It can vary with customer preference and distance but low 40's would be a good starting point.
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post #3696 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Even that seems low for the 8500. Is that because you are aiming for that fl for a calibrated day mode or is that all you can actually get out of the panel? I thought the whole thing about the F8500 was it's ability to get super bright. Even if you are not looking to get a perfect calibration, can the panel get no brighter then that or it can but it just won't calibrate correctly?
Yes it does seem low. That was maxed out Cal-DAY mode; it could not go any brighter, at least not in the cal or movie modes.
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post #3697 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 06:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by amercnchopz34 View Post

Pie....

Do you use optical running from ARC hdmi to tv....do u still use the arc input and just run optical to set via AVR?

Optical from the TV won't have anything to do with ARC. Ideally you would disable ARC -to make sure feed your AVR into any input apart from HDMI3 on the TV.
The optical cable is used for Smart Hub apps only. You'd change your AVR to the optical input when using the apps.
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post #3698 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

How's winter on the Rock treatin ya bai ? smile.gif

From the thousands of posts here & in 2 other topics about Samsung (& vs Pannys), the only realistic differences boil down to

For dark room viewing the Panny has very slightly better blacks
For lit or daytime rooms the Samsung excels & whites are brighter
Samsungs have very slightly better motion handling
Panny is very slightly better for gaming
Sammy essentially has no IR or Burn in
The many Sammy FW updates have worked to better the set
The PC/gaming lag issue has been solved on the Sammy (FW)
Sammy features, apps & Smart features are better
Some Sammys have unacceptable buzzing
Some Pannys have unacceptable fan noise
Sammy has a future upgrade possibility (Evolution Kit)

RE: "Is the 8500 on par with the ST, VT or ZT because I see a lot of comparisons between the 8500 and the ZT yet the ZT is like $1600 more here."
- That appears to be a fairly accurate observation, from posts & reviews
More Panny Fanboys/(Fanboise) react very sensitively to statements that Sammys are better or equal to Pannys,
as compared to vice versa rolleyes.gifsmile.gifbiggrin.gif

It's been over 6 months since I've seen the F8500. I am wondering what changes are there PQ wise since then.

It's good to know that the input lag has improved (still need to see the actual number from Leo Bodnar tester...) but there seems to be new issues like tearing.

One of the guys that purchased the F8500 per my recommendation first complained about the ABL. Few months later he said the ABL's been improved, but the floating black got worse. The blacks are more grey according to him. But one new issue for him was a full greyish picture that goes on for 1 second the moment he turns on the set, then goes back to normal. He said he didn't have this issue before, I wonder if anyone else has this issue.

Chad's comment about brightness taking a dive makes me worried though.
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post #3699 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 07:28 AM
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Would be interesting to find out if there are temperature differences between the 51", 60" and the 64".
After the Processor Board Meltdown, thank you for your against fan comments, but, I'll stick with my 1 fan as shown!
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post #3700 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yes it does seem low. That was maxed out Cal-DAY mode; it could not go any brighter, at least not in the cal or movie modes.
So what we are saying is the F8500 cannot really get any brighter then a VT60/ZT60 calibrated with brightness set to high. This is very interesting and curious if this is something that Samsung has changed with their software.

Seems strange they would remove the one thing that really made the F8500 special. Has anyone noticed their picture getting darker after updates although I am doubting anywhere here would be running their TV at full brightness to even notice anyway.
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post #3701 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:12 AM
 
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Would be interesting to find out if there are temperature differences between the 51", 60" and the 64".
After the Processor Board Meltdown, thank you for your against fan comments, but, I'll stick with my 1 fan as shown!

I believe there are many other people running the 64 at high cell without fan(s) and without issue. You probably just had a duff logic board.
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post #3702 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:34 AM
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I'd like to get some verification on this from other owners.

Doing a calibration in Standard, Movie, and the two ISF modes, it appears to me that Standard can go much brighter with all settings set the same.

This is with 1118 firmware and the reset factory performed afterwards.


This is not to be taken as these other modes are not getting bright enough because I find that they're plenty bright enough for my bright living room. I can't really use all the brightness in Standard mode so it would have to be turned downed anyway. Just curious.

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post #3703 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

So what we are saying is the F8500 cannot really get any brighter then a VT60/ZT60 calibrated with brightness set to high. This is very interesting and curious if this is something that Samsung has changed with their software.

Seems strange they would remove the one thing that really made the F8500 special. Has anyone noticed their picture getting darker after updates although I am doubting anywhere here would be running their TV at full brightness to even notice anyway.

The thing that really makes the 8500 special, is not just the brightness, but also the less aggressive behavior of the ABL relative to the Panasonics as well as the added detail.

As for reduction in brightness as the result of firmware updates, I haven't seen people complaining about this at all. I certainly haven't seen any drop in brightness and they still look far brighter than the VT or ZT.

BTW guys, FWIW, I'm not sure if anyone saw the latest issue of CR, but they rate the 8500 higher than either the VT or ZT.
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post #3704 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

It can vary with customer preference and distance but low 40's would be a good starting point.
Thanks.
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post #3705 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:47 AM
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Interestingly, as I've read over the last several pages, I see that some Panasonic owners continue to reside here even though this is a Samsung owner's thread. It appears as soon as something negative is discussed regarding the 8500, the frenzy begins.

I guess this is why I had been spending less time here.
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post #3706 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The thing that really makes the 8500 special, is not just the brightness, but also the less aggressive behavior of the ABL relative to the Panasonics as well as the added detail.

.....snip...

I'm glad you posted that Ken. I've been meaning to but got busy and forgot about it.

The difference in ABL is significant when compared to the VT50 that I still own. Can't say that Panasonic did anything different with the VT60s but I haven't read a single post saying that it was any better than the VT50s in that regard.

Also, for my bright room, you really can get this set bright enough which for me is somewhere around 50 ft lamberts. The set can go brighter but I'd recommend being smart about it and find what looks best for your specific room.

Now that I've got the latitude of being able to go brighter, I do find that I want to setup both day and night ISF modes.
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post #3707 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post

It's been over 6 months since I've seen the F8500. I am wondering what changes are there PQ wise since then.

It's good to know that the input lag has improved (still need to see the actual number from Leo Bodnar tester...) but there seems to be new issues like tearing.

One of the guys that purchased the F8500 per my recommendation first complained about the ABL. Few months later he said the ABL's been improved, but the floating black got worse. The blacks are more grey according to him. But one new issue for him was a full greyish picture that goes on for 1 second the moment he turns on the set, then goes back to normal. He said he didn't have this issue before, I wonder if anyone else has this issue.

Chad's comment about brightness taking a dive makes me worried though.

I noticed just recently after hitting the 200 hour mark that my blacks appear even blacker. Its especially more noticeable in a dark room when you get the black screens between commercials. Maybe because BO is kicking in faster. Also did the 1118 update near the same time.

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post #3708 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

How's winter on the Rock treatin ya bai ? smile.gif

40 years I've been on this island and this has been one of the worse winters for Wind, Snow, rain, constant power outages that last for days and really cold. Brutal.

The Samsung is tempting. Might grab one. Now, 60 or 64". hmmmm. 14' wide room, with a 50" now.
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post #3709 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Interestingly, as I've read over the last several pages, I see that some Panasonic owners continue to reside here even though this is a Samsung owner's thread. It appears as soon as something negative is discussed regarding the 8500, the frenzy begins.

I guess this is why I had been spending less time here.

+1

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post #3710 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

I'd like to get some verification on this from other owners.

Doing a calibration in Standard, Movie, and the two ISF modes, it appears to me that Standard can go much brighter with all settings set the same.

This is with 1118 firmware and the reset factory performed afterwards.


This is not to be taken as these other modes are not getting bright enough because I find that they're plenty bright enough for my bright living room. I can't really use all the brightness in Standard mode so it would have to be turned downed anyway. Just curious.

I don't see a question here but I can tell you that the exact same settings are displayed differently depending on mode. Is that what you're asking?
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post #3711 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yes it does seem low. That was maxed out Cal-DAY mode; it could not go any brighter, at least not in the cal or movie modes.

SPECULATION:
Could this be the result of a bad firmware update - one requiring a full factory reset with all inputs disconnected ("FFRWAID") (as documented in this thread)?

I know nothing of the methods used by a calibration pro, but wonder if a FFRWAID is a normal early step in the process.
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post #3712 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Interestingly, as I've read over the last several pages, I see that some Panasonic owners continue to reside here even though this is a Samsung owner's thread. It appears as soon as something negative is discussed regarding the 8500, the frenzy begins.

I guess this is why I had been spending less time here.

you noticed that too huh... thankfully it doesn't happen often and this thread usually stays cordial.

at least we don't have F16s flying through our living rooms when we turn tv on! and our "beta testing fun" doesn't come at the cost of a fractured glass panel. now that sounds FUN! wink.gif
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post #3713 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WantsNWarrants View Post

SPECULATION:
Could this be the result of a bad firmware update - one requiring a full factory reset with all inputs disconnected ("FFRWAID") (as documented in this thread)?

I know nothing of the methods used by a calibration pro, but wonder if a FFRWAID is a normal early step in the process.

My guess its a FW update. I can only imagine the heat the tv would generate if it could go as high as 65 to 85fl that Chad saw with the first one he calibrated. Perhaps, Samsung discovered that those type of readings were causing issues, and dialed back the max with a later update. Just speculation.

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post #3714 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 10:38 AM
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Hi all,

I am looking at the 60" F8500. The included base runs the entire length of the panel, and unfortunately is about 4" wider than my existing furniture. It would look odd hanging off the sides by a few inches...

Are there alternative/universal stands available for flat panel TVs, that might have a smaller footprint? I assume they would attach to the wall mount points on the back of the panel. Appreciate any help!
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

you noticed that too huh... thankfully it doesn't happen often and this thread usually stays cordial.

at least we don't have F16s flying through our living rooms when we turn tv on! and our "beta testing fun" doesn't come at the cost of a fractured glass panel. now that sounds FUN! wink.gif
Since you're quoting me....nice exaggeration. The microfractures actually come from the inability of the tech (or customer in some cases) to properly re-attach the back panel.
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post #3716 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 11:18 AM
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February 1, 2014 - fL Readings - P64F8500 - Spectracal C6 Profiled from i1Pro Cell Settings at 20 Window 18%

Dynamic: 61fL
Standard: 57fL
Relax: 47fL
Movie: 44fL (My preferrance is Cell 14 - 31fL)
Cal Night: 38fL
Cal Day: 38fL

Bug in my Calman 5.3 that won't put out 5% Windows from my iScan Duo. Therefore, if I was able to get 5% Windows, the fL readings would have been higher!
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post #3717 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer Insider View Post

Chad, thanks for replying and I appreciate your work and explanations.  I'm trying to keep my ZT60, but can't accept what I consider is low luminance.  What gamma do you select for ZT60s day mode calibration to get 52fL? 

I have an engineering background and worked on plasma monitor project management for several years in the professional markets.  I trust and believe everything you are doing and I love my ZT60, but it's too dim for my liking.

Thanks for your well appreciated help!
Why the delema anyway ? Sell it, you can probably make a nice profit on your ZT60 for the prices they are selling for. Then you will end up getting a real cheap PN64F8500.
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post #3718 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

you noticed that too huh... thankfully it doesn't happen often and this thread usually stays cordial.

at least we don't have F16s flying through our living rooms when we turn tv on! and our "beta testing fun" doesn't come at the cost of a fractured glass panel. now that sounds FUN! wink.gif
Since you're quoting me....nice exaggeration. The microfractures actually come from the inability of the tech (or customer in some cases) to properly re-attach the back panel.

lol, still...beta testing... regardless of who, what, why.

did you put that in any other thread? is samsung the ONLY company that does this? just as one example, what about all the bluray players that give firmware updates? across the board, different manufacturers, i read many users have problems after updates. i just feel it was an unnecessary comment that one could say about many products smile.gif
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post #3719 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

February 1, 2014 - fL Readings - P64F8500 - Spectracal C6 Profiled from i1Pro Cell Settings at 20 Window 18%

Dynamic: 61fL
Standard: 57fL
Relax: 47fL
Movie: 44 (My preferrance is Cell 14 - 31fL)
Cal Night: 38
Cal Day: 38

Bug in my Calman 5.3 that won't put out 5% Windows from my iScan Duo. Therefore, if I was able to get 5% Windows, the fL readings would have been higher!

Thanks for taking the time, looks like I should go shopping for a LED.

Would you mind posting the LG results using the same measuring equipment, just for comparison.  TIA

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post #3720 of 6521 Old 02-01-2014, 12:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

lol, still...beta testing... regardless of who, what, why.

did you put that in any other thread? is samsung the ONLY company that does this? what about all the bluray players that give firmware updates? across the board, different manufacturers, i read many users have problems after updates. i just feel it was an unnecessary comment that one could say about many products smile.gif
With a moving standard like Blu-ray, it made more sense. And I concur it is far more common today. I just haven't seen such prevalence with TVs until this "smart" business came along (and then only with certain brands). With every update comes a new opportunity to brick your expensive set.
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Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn64f8500 64 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn60f8500 60 Inch 1080p 600hz 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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