Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 127 - AVS Forum
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post #3781 of 7645 Old 02-02-2014, 07:43 PM
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Konica, you know as well as I do that if 1,000 people comment that they don't see floating blacks and 1 says he does, the Panasonic crowd will latch on to that one guy. Never mind that there have been many many firmware updates since a previous 8500 owner, who comes here quite often, complained of floating blacks and switched to a Panasonic. One or two of those updates specifically addressed floating blacks.

Too often we seem not to worry much about facts in these forums and concentrate more on purchase justification. wink.gif

And too often we see the Panasonic owners coming to the 8500 owner's thread to throw in a jab or two. Just amazing.
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post #3782 of 7645 Old 02-02-2014, 07:54 PM
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I have yet to see the "floating black" issue and I almost always watch tv at night in a totally dark room. On a side note, this is the brightest tv I have ever owned, and that includes both plasma and LED.
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post #3783 of 7645 Old 02-02-2014, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Thanks for posting this as a lot of people don't believe floating blacks exist on this display as I saw them quite readily for myself.

Have you measured any differences in MLL as of late with the latest 1118 firmware compared to before? Some people have measured a rise in MLL (even on the F5300) although I don't think anyone knows if it's firmware related or not.

Those numbers have remained the same up to f/w 1117 which I'm still running (and plan to stay until there is a solid reason to upgrade).
Zoyd had some F8500 data Vs APL on this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl#post_23383073 And some tweaks lower down the page for overall MLL but those as of yet are not possible with the F8500 panels.

To be fair this can be difficult to see this on most program material but the black optimizer is easy to see in action. If you cannot see BO, you will never see floating blacks.

Todd
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post #3784 of 7645 Old 02-02-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

hey there ph8te! how you been? guess you snuck this in as i was trying to configure my post.

Not too bad can't complain, been in and out ofnghisnthread and others. I see the squabbling is still going on though which is why I dropped out to begin with. Same people same arguments round and round the circle goes wink.gif
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post #3785 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

hey there ph8te! how you been? guess you snuck this in as i was trying to configure my post.

Not too bad can't complain, been in and out ofnghisnthread and others. I see the squabbling is still going on though which is why I dropped out to begin with. Same people same arguments round and round the circle goes wink.gif

i hear ya! i check in occasionally. more so just recently, but not near as active as in the beginning. glad to see ya and hope all is well!

Samsung PN51F8500. Marantz SR5008. Oppo BDP 103D. Sony BDP S5100. Emp Tek E55TIB LR, E5CIB, E55WIB. Sennheiser Momentum. Sennheiser 598.
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post #3786 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 03:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

...I see the squabbling is still going on though which is why I dropped out to begin with. Same people same arguments round and round the circle goes wink.gif

But the VT and ZT ARE darker! wink.gif

*yawn
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post #3787 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 04:03 AM
 
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Originally Posted by todd95008 View Post

Those numbers have remained the same...

I concur. No change on my TV since new.
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post #3788 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I have yet to see the "floating black" issue and I almost always watch tv at night in a totally dark room. On a side note, this is the brightest tv I have ever owned, and that includes both plasma and LED.

I agree - no FBs here either...

Finally after many years, I now no longer miss my 53" Pioneer Elite RPG HDTV !!! smile.gif
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post #3789 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by p5browne View Post

Some negativity re Evolution Kit here:

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/is-samsungs-evolution-kit-missing-in-action-in-2014/

Require a Magnifying Glass to find the Evolution Kit info here:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/news/presskit/at-ces-2014-samsung-enables-consumers-to-play-more-do-more-share-more

Seem more gaga with the UHD Evolution Kit!

If one were to get a 2014 Evolution Kit should they actually become available - would it "wipe out" any calibrations or settings?? confused.gif

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/hands-on-with-samsungs-evolution-kit/

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post #3790 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by titancrusher1 View Post

Dude, I play COD competitively as well as a multitude of other games. Search for my posts, but basically it goes like this.

Turn off Smooth motion.

Set input from HDMI 1 to Game mode.  

Turn on Game mode in the general settings.

Thats it. Renaming  to PC lowers the quality a little but has the same effect as the instructions above. 

I also posted Calibration settings, that post the latest firmware update still seem pretty accurate. 

NOW GO BUY THIS TV lol

but does doing all of that make the picture quality worse? typically with my Panasonic, which has been flawless for gaming, I turn off Cinema mode and go to a Custom mode where brightness and contrast, sharpness etc is all dialed up because I find Cinema mode to be dull for games. I don't use game mode, looks weird, and all the tv's other nonsense features are turned off (regardless of gaming or not) Keep in mind, my Panny doesn't really have a lot of features to to turn on in the first place - PZ80 from 2008.

So with the Sammy, I am wondering that once you do all the tricks to reduce lag, does the picture look like !@#$#?

Another thing. I am only assuming that the F8500 should be able to makr darker blacks then my 2008 PZ80? I mean, if the F8500 is almost on par with a VT or ZT, then my older plasma should be much worse then the 8500. Killer is, do you have to turn on BO or some other gimmick that kills and crushes blacks to achieve Panny level Blacks?

Sorry the for Q's but I have to order the TV without seeing one.
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post #3791 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 05:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Konica, you know as well as I do that if 1,000 people comment that they don't see floating blacks and 1 says he does, the Panasonic crowd will latch on to that one guy. Never mind that there have been many many firmware updates since a previous 8500 owner, who comes here quite often, complained of floating blacks and switched to a Panasonic. One or two of those updates specifically addressed floating blacks.

Too often we seem not to worry much about facts in these forums and concentrate more on purchase justification. wink.gif

And too often we see the Panasonic owners coming to the 8500 owner's thread to throw in a jab or two. Just amazing.

Thanks Ken, you took the words right out of my mouth....

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post #3792 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 05:51 AM
 
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^ Floating Blacks are only there if you know what to look for, especially if you can side-by-side compare with a VT or ZT.
Then there's Panasonics' ABL limitations wink.gif but that's a whole other story that's been discussed already...
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post #3793 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 06:17 AM
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If you enjoy watching the 8500, and know you defintely got your moneys worth, that's ALL the matters! Period!!!
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post #3794 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 06:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

but does doing all of that make the picture quality worse? typically with my Panasonic, which has been flawless for gaming, I turn off Cinema mode and go to a Custom mode where brightness and contrast, sharpness etc is all dialed up because I find Cinema mode to be dull for games. I don't use game mode, looks weird, and all the tv's other nonsense features are turned off (regardless of gaming or not) Keep in mind, my Panny doesn't really have a lot of features to to turn on in the first place - PZ80 from 2008.

So with the Sammy, I am wondering that once you do all the tricks to reduce lag, does the picture look like !@#$#?

Another thing. I am only assuming that the F8500 should be able to makr darker blacks then my 2008 PZ80? I mean, if the F8500 is almost on par with a VT or ZT, then my older plasma should be much worse then the 8500. Killer is, do you have to turn on BO or some other gimmick that kills and crushes blacks to achieve Panny level Blacks?

Sorry the for Q's but I have to order the TV without seeing one.

There is another thread about the F8500 with many more pages than this one Official Samsung PNxxF8500 discussion Thread (No Street Price Talk) http://www.avsforum.com/t/1463454/official-samsung-pnxxf8500-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/10110#post_24304140

So you will have to dig through & see actual postings for yourself - it appears there are simple ways to make the gamming great!

As for your question about 2008 PZ80 that would be best answered by comparing that with actual Panny owners of ST/VT/ZT sets

The issue here & now, boils down to current Pannys vs current Sammys as to gaming suitability which from what I have read in the past months in the Sammy threads,
is that it is quite suited & fine for gamming.
My previous detailed post to you about essential differences pretty well wrapped up those.

To directly answer "Killer is, do you have to turn on BO or some other gimmick that kills and crushes blacks to achieve Panny level Blacks?" - NO
- The Sammy allows for separate settings to be saved & defaulted to for gaming

You might also want in your search to also note any differences mentioned about gamming with a 360. 360 One, PS3 or PS4 (wii) & etc
- but again, that seems to be all sorted out

It would be great to set up a F8500 Gamming topic as these |F8500 threads have become cluttered beyond belief!! biggrin.gif

I see Samsung USA has really dropped the cost of these sets again & just recently & is now also gifting a free sound bar - I wonder if this will come north??

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post #3795 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

If one were to get a 2014 Evolution Kit should they actually become available - would it "wipe out" any calibrations or settings?? confused.gif

http://www.gadgetguy.com.au/hands-on-with-samsungs-evolution-kit/

You do realize that the Evo kit you linked is last year's model, right? Please don't go out there and buy it. LOL.

Here's the 2014 model: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1389286758
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post #3796 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post


but does doing all of that make the picture quality worse? typically with my Panasonic, which has been flawless for gaming, I turn off Cinema mode and go to a Custom mode where brightness and contrast, sharpness etc is all dialed up because I find Cinema mode to be dull for games. I don't use game mode, looks weird, and all the tv's other nonsense features are turned off (regardless of gaming or not) Keep in mind, my Panny doesn't really have a lot of features to to turn on in the first place - PZ80 from 2008.

So with the Sammy, I am wondering that once you do all the tricks to reduce lag, does the picture look like !@#$#?

Another thing. I am only assuming that the F8500 should be able to makr darker blacks then my 2008 PZ80? I mean, if the F8500 is almost on par with a VT or ZT, then my older plasma should be much worse then the 8500. Killer is, do you have to turn on BO or some other gimmick that kills and crushes blacks to achieve Panny level Blacks?

Sorry the for Q's but I have to order the TV without seeing one.

I set up my calibration settings in standard picture mode then adjust to a custom level. Search for my posts on this forum where I had the calibration settings.  Turning on  Game mode in  the settings  doesnt do anything to me but turn off the ability to turn on Smooth motion which you dont need on a video game anyway.  The picture looks on par as a normal movie picture with the instructions i stated you just wont have smooth motion. I'd recommend you buy it. If you dont like it you can return it. Make sure you calibrate the picture and play with the tv for a few days till you get the results you want. I spetn a week fiddling with mine adn it was well worth it. 

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post #3797 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Phanes View Post

You do realize that the Evo kit you linked is last year's model, right? Please don't go out there and buy it. LOL.

Here's the 2014 model: http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1389286758

Yeah I know... I thought that was quite clear from my post "If one were to get a 2014 Evolution Kit should they actually become available "
- the reply I was actually expecting was a helpful response/answer to my question... "would it "wipe out" any calibrations or settings??

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post #3798 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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Can anyone comment on 1118?
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post #3799 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by HDgeneration View Post

For some reason my F8500 60 inch model doesn't seem as clear and sharp as I want it to be. Can it be the viewing distance or my settings? Or both? My viewing distance is about 11 feet from couch to the TV stand. Plus my whites look rather greyish blue not white white. Any recommendations for daylight viewing and after noon with dim light viewing ? Thanks!

I imagine you've come up with something, and this should be in the settings thread, but I noticed the November build and I got these from the settings thread and I have to say, I'm not even sure I need it calibrated as the picture is SWEET.

I only use Cinema Smooth for Blu Ray. I use these settings for day or night and switch to WARM 1 for hockey.

2D Picture Modes - Movie
Cell Light = 16
Contrast = 95
Brightness = 46
Sharpness = 0
Color = 50
Tint = 50/50

Color Tone - Warm2 for all modes
File Mode = OFF
Black optimizer - Dark Room for all modes
Everything else = off

Flesh Tone = 0/0
Gamma = 0/0
Everything else = off

Color Space is Custom for Movie
Red - 53, 5, 5
Green - 38, 57,10
Blue - 0, 3, 61
Yellow - 52, 52, 11
Cyan - 36, 56, 54
Magenta - 49, 7, 57

White Balance (2 point)
27, 25, 27, 27, 25, 30 / 27, 25, 26, 26, 25, 30

White Balance (10 Point)
1 = -3, -1, -2 / 1, 3, 3
2 = -5, -4, -4 / 1, 0, 0
3 = -2, -1, -2 / 4, 3, 6
4 = -6, -3, -2 / -1, 0, -1
5 = -1, 0 , -2 / 6, 3, 8
6 = 4, -1, 1 / 9, 9, 0
7 = 8, 4, 2 / 0, 0, 0
8 = 6, 1, 0 / 0, 0, 0
9 = 0, 0, 0 / 0, 0, 0
10 = 10, 0, 0 / 0, 0, 0

3D Picture Mode - Movie
(I've never personally tried these)

Cell Light = 20
Contrast = 100
Brightness = 45
Sharpness = 20
Color = 50
Tint = All modes 50/50

Color Tone = Warm2 for all modes
Everything else = off

Flesh tone = 0 for all modes
Gamma = ?? forgot to look
Balck Tone: = Dark
Everything else is off

Color Space is AUTO for all modes

White Balance (2 point)
All 25's for all modes.


Good Luck

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post #3800 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

Yeah I know... I thought that was quite clear from my post "If one were to get a 2014 Evolution Kit should they actually become available "
- the reply I was actually expecting was a helpful response/answer to my question... "would it "wipe out" any calibrations or settings??

No, it should not wipe out your calibrations. I would still write them down, as you can always plug them back in and they will work just as well. Anytime you do a factory reset after updating FW, you will need to plug the values back in for movie mode, standard. However, when you turn day/night cal back on after reset, all the settings you plugged in for them are recovered. The evolution kit is kind of a gimmick. It doesn't produce a better picture, or better blacks, etc. All it does is update the smart hub to what the 2014 models have. So if you are happy with the apps you have, voice and hand recognition, dual core instead of quad core, then you really don't need the 2014 version. In reality you are paying over $300 for a new remote and smarthub software.
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post #3801 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 12:50 PM
 
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^ I'm not sure where folks got the information that an Evo kit would improve PQ.
It's just a Smart Hub upgrade.
The TVs PQ cannot be 'upgraded' with the Evo kit.

Any minor PQ enhancements can be done through firmware upgrades to the existing hardware.
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post #3802 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ I'm not sure where folks got the information that an Evo kit would improve PQ.
It's just a Smart Hub upgrade.....
They possibly read reports of Samsung E series owners that installed this years Evo kit and reported PQ improvements - particularly in the area of Std Def reproduction.
It seems the quad core processors have allowed the MPEG noise reduction algorithms to be beefed up significantly.

Cheers
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Yep I was talking about the F8500 kit wink.gif
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post #3804 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newfmp3 View Post

but does doing all of that make the picture quality worse? typically with my Panasonic, which has been flawless for gaming, I turn off Cinema mode and go to a Custom mode where brightness and contrast, sharpness etc is all dialed up because I find Cinema mode to be dull for games. I don't use game mode, looks weird, and all the tv's other nonsense features are turned off (regardless of gaming or not) Keep in mind, my Panny doesn't really have a lot of features to to turn on in the first place - PZ80 from 2008.

So with the Sammy, I am wondering that once you do all the tricks to reduce lag, does the picture look like !@#$#?

Another thing. I am only assuming that the F8500 should be able to makr darker blacks then my 2008 PZ80? I mean, if the F8500 is almost on par with a VT or ZT, then my older plasma should be much worse then the 8500. Killer is, do you have to turn on BO or some other gimmick that kills and crushes blacks to achieve Panny level Blacks?

Sorry the for Q's but I have to order the TV without seeing one.

yes, it does affect pq. with the game mode settings it's only slightly better than a panny st60 tongue.gif

seriously, it's still very, VERY good. I think the ppl that like those extra processing 'features' like FI, dynamic contrast, etc would be the ones most likely to complain about the pq, because all those goofy settings would no longer be available.

BO helps, and is not a 'gimmick' that actually ruins the image. but I think it may be part of the cause of the 'floating blacks'. it kind of reminds me of a crt, where dark scenes look amazing, and bright scenes look amazing, but if you pay close attention, the 'black' actually gets brighter on the brighter scenes. fortunately you don't really notice elevated blacks on a bright image that much. either way, turning it off still provides solid blacks, not 'great', but better than almost anything else on the market. I'm not super familiar with the older panny's, but I believe the f8500's black levels with BO off should be comparable to an ST50 or so.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #3805 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ I'm not sure where folks got the information that an Evo kit would improve PQ.
It's just a Smart Hub upgrade.
The TVs PQ cannot be 'upgraded' with the Evo kit.

Any minor PQ enhancements can be done through firmware upgrades to the existing hardware.
In theory, more powerful processors should provide the potential for better frame interpolation with fewer artifacts. At least that's what I'M hoping to hear before even considering buying one. I don't use the Smart apps much at all.


Max
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post #3806 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 06:32 PM
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Yep I was talking about the F8500 kit wink.gif

So was I. The 2014 Evo kit has a faster quad core processor thus allowing even more sophisticated video processing. Of course we wont know till we see side-by-side comparisons if Samsung have actually taken advantage.
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post #3807 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 06:39 PM
 
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Hmm, well, I really think it won't do anything apart from change perhaps a few marketing numbers.
They've been really vague about the 2013 kit enhancements...

It's all marketing baloney IMO.

The Quad Core 'Pro' ? Sounds simply breathtaking biggrin.gif

If you haven't already invest in a Darbee. It will be the best few hundred buck PQ upgrade you could ever make (2c).
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post #3808 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 06:41 PM
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Any mad scientist out there interesting in swapping a smoken hot CPU for whatever is in there?

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #3809 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 07:11 PM
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OK, guys. I'm going to propose something radical. However, it probably requires some of the more "mechanical" folks to put their brains to work. I see all the whining about how the F8500 buzzes. Mine does, too, but I don't really hear it until I concentrate hard enough.

I witnessed another friend's new F8500 and his seemed to buzz a bit louder than mine (but mine is almost 7 months old now). Seems like the buzz emanates from the center of the TV. No surprises there. So my friend and I got thinking. Now mind you, neither of us are "handyman" types, so not sure how to approach this. But we were thinking that what if we find a way to create a styrofoam (or any other material) cutout that fills the space between the base of the TV and whatever the TV is sitting on.

So we took a piece of blanket and fit it snug in the open base of the TV (between the curved front and back), and lo and behold, no buzzing. Now, this could be a one-off fluke, so can some of you (with buzzing sets) try this and report?

Beyond that can any of you "mechanical braniacs" take this idea further and try with other filler materials to see if we can provide a solution for the buzzers?
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post #3810 of 7645 Old 02-03-2014, 08:04 PM
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My last two Panny's buzzed when new. After about a year it was all but gone.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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