Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 136 - AVS Forum
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post #4051 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 06:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post

I got mine(51F8500) yesterday and have been throwing all kinds of **** at it and I'm not seeing it. LHX is laughing at me right now. I'm going to give it a week and see if the pic settles in. The LHX looked like hell for a couple days until it settled in. The pq is just really soft right now and the motion res is for ****.

Do FW update if not latest

Do some basic settings in menu changes - Store to Home, CS off, Sharpness way down, etc etc
Wait 100 or so hours for set to break in
This topic & the other F8500 topic have tons of setting examples

In 20 minutes, mine went from out of box meh cripes rolleyes.gif to WOW !! eek.gif

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post #4052 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 07:18 AM
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My firmware was at 1014. Updated it to 1118 and did everything I could. I'm a plasma guy, always have been. But as of right now, my LHX is way more plasma then this is. Like I said, I'm going to give it some time to settle in. If it still blows, im going to order another one. Damn gorgeous tv, though. I really want to like it.

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2 PS3's
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post #4053 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

The Darblet is not a Line doubler, Upscaler, or Upconvertor. It is a detail enhancement type of video process. The reason it works so well with HD and BluRay is, it has more detail to enhance. Now here is where the problem lies in a lot of people's eye's or expectations. It's hard to enhance crap because it was crap to begin with. There is a lot of trash in SD, so the Darblet enhances the trash which is undesirable. That is the reason so many owners say ( including myself ) the better the picture the better the Darblet does. The Darblet can take a HD or BluRay picture and make it better, which some of the most expensive processor's can not do with BluRay. It is a very special product with a very specific video enhancement capability. It does nothing good for SD but is marvelous for BR or HD.
I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.
Shadowspawn I think you will like it alot for what it does for BluRay.

Aye, I do get that aspect of the Darblet.

I guess I expected better, because 1) People have reported it improving their cable viewing, and 2) Most of our cable viewing is high definition, which is what I tested it with. I know that the "HD" cable content suffers from compression, but I had hoped for better.

It did occur to me that another variable was at work. I have a Samsung cable box, which can do up-converting. Since we have only had the F8500 on the wall since late Saturday night, a lot of experimentation is still going on, and at the moment I have the cable box doing the up-converting to 1080p (because that's how it was set for it's previous use with a non-upconverting DVR).

So, what I was feeding into the Darblet was probably 720p upconverted by the cable box to 1080p. I can imagine that this might screw things up in some way, too much processing getting in the way of things.

More experimentation and testing is needed (which the Olympics are getting in the way of).
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post #4054 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by KONICA TECH View Post

Do you own the 8500....?  I said I love the results using the Darbee and my LG 55LHX....  I do not see this with the Samsung... I am not saying the Darbee sucks, just not worth 250 - 300 for the Samsung 8500.
Yes Sir I do own the 8500. I also own and have in my house a ES8000, Sony XBR, and a couple of Kuro's. The statement that the Darbee is not worth the 250-300 is a true statement, I think the price should be around $100-$150, but it is the only game in town. It is the only Processor that does what it does without messing up a bunch of other stuff. I only watch DirecTV HD and BluRay on a regular basis. So I like what it does, I have not hooked it up to any display with a high quality feed that I didn't like what it does. I have run the DVDO Duo and Lumagen Mini on the 8500 with Auto Calibration thru Chromapure software and personally I like a good Manual Calibration better than either.
It's just a matter of too each his own on the Darbee.
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post #4055 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenee View Post


Yes Sir I do own the 8500. I also own and have in my house a ES8000, Sony XBR, and a couple of Kuro's. The statement that the Darbee is not worth the 250-300 is a true statement, I think the price should be around $100-$150, but it is the only game in town. It is the only Processor that does what it does without messing up a bunch of other stuff. I only watch DirecTV HD and BluRay on a regular basis. So I like what it does, I have not hooked it up to any display with a high quality feed that I didn't like what it does. I have run the DVDO Duo and Lumagen Mini on the 8500 with Auto Calibration thru Chromapure software and personally I like a good Manual Calibration better than either.
It's just a matter of too each his own on the Darbee.

I plan to get the OPPO 103D next for the extra $100 it will be used on some videos. Hope you are enjoying your 8500.

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post #4056 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by KONICA TECH View Post

I plan to get the OPPO 103D next for the extra $100 it will be used on some videos. Hope you are enjoying your 8500.
IMHO.
Samsung is making some wonderfull display's right now. This is from a man who would not allow a Samsung Product in the house 5 years ago.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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post #4057 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenee View Post


IMHO.
Samsung is making some wonderfull display's right now. This is from a man who would not allow a Samsung Product in the house 5 years ago.

Ditto:) We are on the same wavelength!

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post #4058 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

IMHO.
Samsung is making some wonderfull display's right now.
Yep, that's true. More will be seeing this as they are the only show in town.......
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post #4059 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

I guess I expected better, because 1) People have reported it improving their cable viewing, and 2) Most of our cable viewing is high definition, which is what I tested it with. I know that the "HD" cable content suffers from compression, but I had hoped for better.

It did occur to me that another variable was at work. I have a Samsung cable box, which can do up-converting. Since we have only had the F8500 on the wall since late Saturday night, a lot of experimentation is still going on,

All cable HD PQ is not equal. My wife and I have noticed that broadcast and DVR recorded HD programming on Verizon FiOS does not look as good and the same program viewed on the Video On Demand feed. The reason for this was explained in a FiOS forum:

"VOD shows use two-pass encoding, whereas network broadcast feeds use one-pass encoding.

Two-pass encoding involves having the encoder conduct an "analysis" pass first, to determine which portions of the video could benefit from various optimizations. These optimizations are applied during the encoding pass, resulting in significantly better picture quality at any given bitrate.

With a broadcast stream, two-pass encoding is impossible; it has to be real-time. Without the benefit of the analysis pass, the encoder cannot perform much in the way of optimization, so the picture winds up looking a lot worse."

For this reason we record series like "Game of Thrones" and "Da Vinci's Demons" as reminders but we view them from the On Demand feed. The detail in the costumes for "The Borgias", like white on white silk embroidery on the Pope's garments, was incredible,

Regardless, there is no way that we would give up the Darblet improvements to our viewing experience on our PN60F8500 from every source we have. We have enjoyed our Darblet DVP 5000 since April 2013.

Update: Comparing new live and VOD is possible because ShowTime puts up the VOD the day before the live new broadcast.
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post #4060 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 08:31 PM
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A heads up for F8500 owners who also use the Tivo Roamio for OTA reception.

As an OCD DIY calibrator, I've been trying different approaches to calibrating the F8500.

What I've concluded is that the built in tuner on the F8500 presents a better picture than the exact same channel through the Tivo Roamio. The Tivo seems to be compressing the image as well as changing the colors. Especially noticeable is red. Watching the Olympics a few minutes ago, its pretty obvious that on the Tivo that faces are often a little too pale while red in clothing is a bit too hot along with some shifting of gamma. You don't see this with the OTA tuner. Its entirely possible that the display handles one type of signal better than the other. I can do some testing when my Oppo 95 returns from service. I'm hoping that its something that I can change in my setup as I like using the Tivo a lot.

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post #4061 of 9970 Old 02-13-2014, 10:50 PM
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I have a Tivo Romeo.  I will attempt to compare the picture between its tuner and another raw feed.

 

Thus far I am not seeing any type of picture degradation on my end.

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post #4062 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 12:21 AM
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Rec'd my 60F8500 the other day from VE. I am paranoid to update the f/w. This pdp won VE shootout on 1 of the first 'wares. Is there a link that shows all of the f/w upd8s & what it fixed. Samsung site does NOT show a f/w history from what I can tell.
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post #4063 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:12 AM
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I use TiVo "Premiers" with a cable-card but I also use taps at each outlet (no set top) and have an RF (QAM) connection to my F8500 also and I see no differences. I checked that purposely. There's no OTA for me in rural WV so I can't answer the OTA aspect but I would be inclined to doubt that. BTW it's "ROAMIO" - there's selections for output from the TiVo on my Premiers that I would assume is also in the Roamio. Do you drive the display directly from your TiVo or does it need to pass-thru an AVR first. I would think it likely preferred to drive the display directly from the TiVo rather than though an AVR.
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post #4064 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

Rec'd my 60F8500 the other day from VE. I am paranoid to update the f/w. This pdp won VE shootout on 1 of the first 'wares. Is there a link that shows all of the f/w upd8s & what it fixed. Samsung site does NOT show a f/w history from what I can tell.

Just do it! If you're that "paranoid" I'd say return it!

What FW was your display delivered with?

MENU > SUPPORT > CONTACT SAMSUNG and in the first displayed image the FW is shown. There's no need to touch the "SOFTWARE UPDATE" section.
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post #4065 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by WVZR1 View Post

I use TiVo "Premiers" with a cable-card but I also use taps at each outlet (no set top) and have an RF (QAM) connection to my F8500 also and I see no differences. I checked that purposely. There's no OTA for me in rural WV so I can't answer the OTA aspect but I would be inclined to doubt that. BTW it's "ROAMIO" - there's selections for output from the TiVo on my Premiers that I would assume is also in the Roamio. Do you drive the display directly from your TiVo or does it need to pass-thru an AVR first. I would think it likely preferred to drive the display directly from the TiVo rather than though an AVR.

Roamio Basic is HDMI direct to HDMI input on the F8500.

I'm referring strictly to the OTA (big honking antenna outside on the roof)

Problem with comparing your cable signals would be that it's already altered (either bitrate or resolution) before you get it. Differences may be difficult to discern.

Have you done a calibration (including CMS and grayscale) on your F8500?

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post #4066 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

I have a Tivo Romeo.  I will attempt to compare the picture between its tuner and another raw feed.

Thus far I am not seeing any type of picture degradation on my end.


If you're not seeing it, maybe it's my specific Tivo. There could be something wrong with it.

You are comparing OTA, right?

Thanks for check Ron.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, VideoForge HDMI II, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #4067 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftyguitar1963 View Post

Rec'd my 60F8500 the other day from VE. I am paranoid to update the f/w. This pdp won VE shootout on 1 of the first 'wares. Is there a link that shows all of the f/w upd8s & what it fixed. Samsung site does NOT show a f/w history from what I can tell.
If you like the TV now. I don't think you will gain much in picture quality with the update. Unless there is something paticular to update for then sit back and enjoy.

Nothing's Perfect So Stop Expecting It ! Glenee

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post #4068 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Aniwolfe View Post

Does anyone know of a work around fix for brightness pop when using 3d blu ray? My issue is...when CS is on...I have a flicker projector effect at times. When off or any MJC effects enabled. I get this brightness shift. Thanks for any help smile.gif.

Alas from everything I've read, and what I've seen on my own 60", you get 2 choices with the 8500: 1 - 3D with CS on and no significant brightness fluctuations but annoying (to some) flicker or 2 - CS off and just the reverse.

Personally 3D on my display, which I'm still trying to troubleshoot, looks noticeably better with CS on. Many others here however very much prefer CS turned off. Iffy 3D for some on the 8500 is about the only legitimate blemish that the TV has, well buzzing too I suppose.
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post #4069 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:

If you're not seeing it, maybe it's my specific Tivo. There could be something wrong with it.

You are comparing OTA, right?

Thanks for check Ron.

 

 

Have not yet had the chance to compare the Tivo to OTA.

 

However, from experience with two separate displays in the last few months I can tell you this....

 

At least in my case, more than once, Tivo defaulted back to 420p upon initial hookup.

 

Then, when I connected it to the 8500 on HDMI input #1, I could not set it above 420p.  I had to switch to HDMI #2 and then it worked.

 

So, some pretty funky stuff happening with the Tivo, but now that it is set properly, it seems to be working fine.

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post #4070 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 12:06 PM
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Radiance XS-3D came in yesterday: set up it's settings, let the set warm up then AutoCaled with the new Calman 5.3 RC2 last night.
I go through the Calibrations 3 times to allow for the affect they have on each other.: (Also wanted to see time differences for different dEs for the 3D LUTs - all Grayscales are done with dEs of 0.1)
:
AutoCal - #1 Calibration: 21 Point Grayscale - with dE of 0.1 - 9 Minutes 125 Point 3D LUT with dE of 0.5 - 23 minutes

#2 Calibration: Grayscale - 7 Minutes LUT with dE of 0.1 - 1 hour, 20 Minutes

#3 Calibration: Grayscale - 8 Minutes LUT with dE of 0.2 - 54 Minutes

When all was said and done - 2 Point was right on - but, Brightness and Contrast Dynamics were off. Corrected, but at 2AM in the morning, not going to re AutoCal until next night.
Looks wise, looks great, just need a Sharpness touch up with the S&M 2 today.

(Not having the hand shaking issues like I was with the iScan Duo.)
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post #4071 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 03:20 PM
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So I have a question about setting the Cell Light level. New PN64F8500 owner. I've had plasmas for 11 years, but never a plasma with a Cell Light adjustment. I'd like to get this right before I spend time with my Spears and Munsil 2 disc.

I've read all of this thread, all of the F8500 Recommended Settings Thread, and most of the discussion since October 1 in the enormous "Discussion" thread.

I've noticed that many, probably a majority, of people who list their settings are using Cell Light in the low-to-mid teens. Even the Kevin Miller settings had Cell Light in low-to-mid teens for multiple picture modes.

On the other hand, there are multiple threads in the Display Calibration forum, in which professional calibrators are absolutely adamant that Cell Light should always be at the maximum level, and the ability to lower it from (in the case of the F8500) 20 would best be removed from consumer's hands. For example, this less than 1 year old thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1459523/adjusting-cell-light-on-a-plasma

Amazingly, using lower levels for Cell Light seems to be completely non-controversial in the three big Plasma Flat Panel Displays F8500 threads; I did not notice a single argument or debate about it. I don't think it even came up.

What do thoughtful owners think about Cell Light always-maximum versus not? And why?

And if not always-maximum, how would one go about choosing a starting point for the Cell Light before starting to fiddle with the Contrast calibration pattern(s)?
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^The F8500 breaks the rules over plasma cell maxed out because it can go so bright. I can understand a report a year ago still saying that, the TV is not a year old yet.

I was one of the first to get the TV and was telling everyone here that I could not get a decent <40fL cal at high cell levels. There was a large number of individuals telling me otherwise and that I should not go lower than 20 but the TV had other ideas.
Sure enough over time when pro calibrators settings became public, they too were running with lower cell.

By all means try your TV at 20 cell at night and tell us how you get on wink.gif You will need your sunglasses.

In the future as the phosphors age it should be no problem balancing things again with all the headroom to spare.
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post #4073 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 03:44 PM
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Indeed the 8500 does get very bright. Personally I like it, even at night, but to be honest there are times that I have to squint my eyes some when playing bright scenes in a dark environment. I can fully understand why some choose to knock the cell light down several notches.
The 8500 is so bright, it'll make you wear shades! cool.gif

Bad 80's music pun, sorry.
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post #4074 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 04:07 PM
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Well, thank you guys. That was quick and factual information which cleared all that up.

We've been watching the F8500 for 6 days, a lot of that being the Winter Olympics, and I've dialed the HD cable settings in by eye (for which we liked Movie mode the best).

For purposes of HD cable TV, my unscientific by-eye adjustment put Brightness about 51, Contrast 92, and I bump Cell Light around between about 16 and 18, depending on the environment and the luminosity of that particular cable program. Trying to avoid black crush and loss of detail in whites, and make it seem like I'm looking through a window. My wife has been patient with my fiddling around, but it's getting old for her. :-)

Those above settings don't really seem quite right to me, I think there should be more of a gap between the Brightness and the Contrast, but when my wife lets me get my hands on the TV long enough to spend some time with my calibration discs, I plan to get it dialed in for Blu-Ray, and then circle back to the HD cable TV settings again and tweak more by-eye with the Blu-Ray settings to guide me.
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post #4075 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

Well, thank you guys. That was quick and factual information which cleared all that up.

We've been watching the F8500 for 6 days, a lot of that being the Winter Olympics, and I've dialed the HD cable settings in by eye (for which we liked Movie mode the best).

For purposes of HD cable TV, my unscientific by-eye adjustment put Brightness about 51, Contrast 92, and I bump Cell Light around between about 16 and 18, depending on the environment and the luminosity of that particular cable program. Trying to avoid black crush and loss of detail in whites, and make it seem like I'm looking through a window. My wife has been patient with my fiddling around, but it's getting old for her. :-)

Those above settings don't really seem quite right to me, I think there should be more of a gap between the Brightness and the Contrast, but when my wife lets me get my hands on the TV long enough to spend some time with my calibration discs, I plan to get it dialed in for Blu-Ray, and then circle back to the HD cable TV settings again and tweak more by-eye with the Blu-Ray settings to guide me.

You could get an even brighter screen by raising your contrast and lowering your brightness. A high brightness will wash out your blacks, so you can get more detail and contrast by lowering brightness 4 or 5 clicks. During the daytime, my cell light is at 20.
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post #4076 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 04:36 PM
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I run cell light at 20 during the day and down at 13 for night viewing.
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post #4077 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 04:37 PM
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Contrast at 100 BTW
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post #4078 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:05 PM
 
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^ 100 will surely bloom/smear. White will be too white and you'll lose detail. Your whites will clip.
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post #4079 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icelt View Post

Indeed the 8500 does get very bright. Personally I like it, even at night, but to be honest there are times that I have to squint my eyes some when playing bright scenes in a dark environment. I can fully understand why some choose to knock the cell light down several notches.
The 8500 is so bright, it'll make you wear shades! cool.gif

Bad 80's music pun, sorry.

 

 

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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ 100 will surely bloom/smear. White will be too white and you'll loose detail. Your whites will clip.

Looks like they want to burn their retinas out:eek:

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post #4080 of 9970 Old 02-14-2014, 08:33 PM
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Cell at 14 to 15 for general viewing - 20 for 3D
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn60f8500 60 Inch 1080p 600hz 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn64f8500 64 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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