Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 142 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)
mithrilG60's Avatar mithrilG60 08:52 AM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Well if you use ARC on HDMI3, Anynet disabling kills that, plus I think the TV resets the sound output (back to TV) when Anynet disables.

I usually manually disable things like Anynet+ anyways. I've used Harmony remotes of varying model for close to a decade now, there's no need for proprietary control routines like Anynet+. Perhaps it matters to those people who have invested in several products of the same make and want to use a factory remote as a universal, but to me they exist only as a "feature" that manufactures use to print words on boxes wink.gif The F8500's remote is the only factory remote that's every stayed out of the storage drawer, and even then it's just because I'm playing with settings. I'm sure once it's dialed in I'll pull the batteries and won't see the remote again for months/years at a time.

I hadn't disabled Anynet+ yet on this set, did so last night but haven't tested with other apps to confirm audio is unaffected. I could possibly see that it might affect ARC, although ARC should be a completely separate routine, however I can't imagine it would disable the digital audio out. I've got a feeling this is just a case of the Skype app itself deciding that it will only output over the TV's speakers. It's probably something as simple making it easier for the application coders to improve microphone response and noise cancelling by only having to factory in a know set of speakers instead of trying to compensate for unknowns. There's a contact email address in the appstore for Skype, I may just email it looking for clarification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

On another note I don't like the way the online status is completely oblivious to the request to be offline when you startup the app again.

That's also an interesting "feature". I never would have know about it as I just have it sign in normally in the background when the tv starts up.

pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 10:15 AM 02-19-2014
^ARC requires Anynet to be enabled FYI. I presume it's because CEC is the protocol used to handshake ARC function.
Finszup's Avatar Finszup 10:31 AM 02-19-2014

I am new to the forum and not sure to which thread I should post.  Just set-up a new PN64F5800 last weekend and have adjusted a number of settings I learned of from this forum.  Blu-rays, 3D blu-ray and most cable programs look fantastic.   Having been watching a lot of the Olympic coverage on NBC I notice a lot more motion blur/judder or whatever the proper term is that make it look like the image is trying to catch up.  This only occurs during fast motion sequences.   I receive my NBC coverage through Cox cable and can't remember who manufactured the cable box (at work right now).   My former TV was an Pioneer Elite PRO-1120HD which looked awesome during live sports broadcasts. Any feedback comments or suggestions would be appreciated.  


fierce_gt's Avatar fierce_gt 10:36 AM 02-19-2014
sounds like the problem is on their end. if blurays look good, then the settings are correct. broadcast signals are probably compressed a lot more, and the first thing that goes with that is motion resolution. I'm betting if you had a pvr, and you paused during fast motion, the blur would still be there(meaning it's coming from the source).

not much you can really do. a good tv can only show what the source is providing. it's not going to turn garbage into gold
wxman's Avatar wxman 11:07 AM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finszup View Post

I am new to the forum and not sure to which thread I should post.  Just set-up a new PN64F5800 last weekend and have adjusted a number of settings I learned of from this forum.  Blu-rays, 3D blu-ray and most cable programs look fantastic.   Having been watching a lot of the Olympic coverage on NBC I notice a lot more motion blur/judder or whatever the proper term is that make it look like the image is trying to catch up.  This only occurs during fast motion sequences.   I receive my NBC coverage through Cox cable and can't remember who manufactured the cable box (at work right now).   My former TV was an Pioneer Elite PRO-1120HD which looked awesome during live sports broadcasts. Any feedback comments or suggestions would be appreciated.  

On film mode on your tv, are you using Auto1 or Auto2? Since NBC is 1080i, it will allow you to use film mode. Auto1 is a bit juddery for me with 1080i sports. Try Auto2 or Off.
Finszup's Avatar Finszup 11:47 AM 02-19-2014

Thanks.  I believe I have Film mode set OFF, but will check when I get home.   Other than the issue with fast motion sports, I am very happy with this set.


wxman's Avatar wxman 12:07 PM 02-19-2014
The Olympic viewing has been both good and bad with regards to blurring. NHL normally streams at 720p 60fps and is very smooth. However, at the Olympics, they are not using 60fps for hockey but 30fps. So it will be less smooth with more blur. Plus some of the NBC channels are 1080i and some 720p. The hockey games on the 720p networks are much better looking than the 1080i networks. The USA hockey game today is on the USA network, which is 1080i and does not look very smooth, while the Canada hockey game on MSNBC which is 720p looks much smoother. This tells me the cameras are 720p.
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 12:07 PM 02-19-2014
For what it's worth, I have a Samsung cable box that I own, and had been using with another device. The box has the ability to up-convert and down-convert to and from any of the standard resolutions. I had it set to up-convert everything to 1080p.

When I installed my PN64F5800 the weekend before last (coming from an 8th generation Kuro), I moved the Samsung box to feed the PN64F5800, and initially I left the Samsung box the way it was. Everything looked great.

I experimented with having the Samsung box output everything in native resolution, and let the PN64F5800 do all the processing.

I immediately noticed motion problems, primarily (in fast-moving scenes) trails following the object, such as a band of tiny dots trailing the dancer on the ice. It seemed much worse than my Kuro. I had the film mode on Auto 2.

I went back to upconverting in the Samsung box pretty quickly.

I need to go back and spend a lot more time experimenting with this, when I don't have more pressing things to mess around with. However, if you cable box can upconvert, you might want to give it a try.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 12:11 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

I immediately noticed motion problems, primarily (in fast-moving scenes) trails following the object, such as a band of tiny dots trailing the dancer on the ice.

Not only fast moving scenes but high light to dark moving edges. Like this?



Test:
Disable BO (then do the CS on/off trick). I bet the trails no longer show.
-If so, it's the problem I have been trying to describe and probably boring people to death with wink.gif
wxman's Avatar wxman 12:20 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

The Olympic viewing has been both good and bad with regards to blurring. NHL normally streams at 720p 60fps and is very smooth. However, at the Olympics, they are not using 60fps for hockey but 30fps. So it will be less smooth with more blur. Plus some of the NBC channels are 1080i and some 720p. The hockey games on the 720p networks are much better looking than the 1080i networks. The USA hockey game today is on the USA network, which is 1080i and does not look very smooth, while the Canada hockey game on MSNBC which is 720p looks much smoother. This tells me the cameras are 720p.

I just double checked. MSNBC is also 1080i. So one network looks worse than the other. So that blows my theory. Just NBC or their limited bandwidth at the Olympics. Sports should be at 60fps not 30fps. When the Olympics are actually on NBC, and not their smaller networks, the image is stunning. Not so much on USA network, although MSNBC is better. I am on DirecTV.
Finszup's Avatar Finszup 12:23 PM 02-19-2014

Thanks for the feedback.  That will be on my agenda when I get home tonight.


mithrilG60's Avatar mithrilG60 12:34 PM 02-19-2014
Just a random question, but has Samsung ever made available the demo video they ran on the F8500's at CES 2013 (and I assume all other tradeshows as well)? The one with the light bulb, shoe, bike, plasma/lava lamp-eqsue paint, etc.
Dougofthenorth's Avatar Dougofthenorth 12:55 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mithrilG60 View Post

Just a random question, but has Samsung ever made available the demo video they ran on the F8500's at CES 2013 (and I assume all other tradeshows as well)? The one with the light bulb, shoe, bike, plasma/lava lamp-eqsue paint, etc.

any of these ?? http://www.ebay.com/bhp/blu-ray-demo-disc
wxman's Avatar wxman 01:38 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finszup View Post

Thanks for the feedback.  That will be on my agenda when I get home tonight.

I would not switch your cable box out of native mode. First, because the cable box is 1080i, and any 1080i signal that comes into it, such as NBC is not even processed by the box, and that is sent to tv to convert to 1080p. 720p signal is converted by the box to 1080i and then sent to the tv to be converted to 1080p. Leaving it in native mode sends the 720p signal to your tv to be converted to 1080p. By letting the cable box convert, you are processing the 720p signal twice, instead of once, thus you are more likely to get a bad picture letting the cable box convert a 720p feed. In general, it is almost always recommended to set your cable or satellite box to native.
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 01:58 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Not only fast moving scenes but high light to dark moving edges. Like this?

Test:
Disable BO (then do the CS on/off trick). I bet the trails no longer show.
-If so, it's the problem I have been trying to describe and probably boring people to death with wink.gif

Yes, it did look very much like that. And, I did have BO enabled.

Hmmm, I'll clearly need to experiment more. My problem has been that, since I installed the TV, pretty much 100% of the time that I am free and able to be in the same room with it, my wife has wanted to either watch one of her weekly shows, or watch the Olympics (she is a huge fan) later than I can stay awake.

So the amount of fiddling around I can do has been limited until the Olympics are over.

(That's why, when I saw the trailing dots, I quickly said "Nope" and put it right back where it had been before, since it was in the middle of an ice dancing competition).
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 02:03 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I would not switch your cable box out of native mode. First, because the cable box is 1080i, and any 1080i signal that comes into it, such as NBC is not even processed by the box, and that is sent to tv to convert to 1080p. 720p signal is converted by the box to 1080i and then sent to the tv to be converted to 1080p. Leaving it in native mode sends the 720p signal to your tv to be converted to 1080p. By letting the cable box convert, you are processing the 720p signal twice, instead of once, thus you are more likely to get a bad picture letting the cable box convert a 720p feed. In general, it is almost always recommended to set your cable or satellite box to native.

Unless the cable box can upconvert to to 1080p, which my Samsung cable box can do. I've got the cable box now upconverting everything to 1080p, so the TV does not have to do anything. You can really tell the difference too, on the device that the cable box was previously on, a DVR, there was an obvious difference between the cable box putting out 1080p versus 1080i (1008p better).

That being said, I was rather surprised at my experience, because I expected the TV to do a better job, so I am going to do some much more systematic experiments once my experiments are no longer interrupting the Olympics.
wxman's Avatar wxman 02:41 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

Unless the cable box can upconvert to to 1080p, which my Samsung cable box can do. I've got the cable box now upconverting everything to 1080p, so the TV does not have to do anything. You can really tell the difference too, on the device that the cable box was previously on, a DVR, there was an obvious difference between the cable box putting out 1080p versus 1080i (1008p better).

That being said, I was rather surprised at my experience, because I expected the TV to do a better job, so I am going to do some much more systematic experiments once my experiments are no longer interrupting the Olympics.

Wow, that's pretty good you have a box that can convert to 1080p. I'm still stuck with 1080i conversion, even with DirecTV. So I have it set to native. Hopefully this is a trend with better boxes coming out.
sam2013's Avatar sam2013 02:49 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post


On film mode on your tv, are you using Auto1 or Auto2? Since NBC is 1080i, it will allow you to use film mode. Auto1 is a bit juddery for me with 1080i sports. Try Auto2 or Off.


Oh Wxman, Yesterday I noticed Auto 1 and Auto 2 features are greyed out When I set to Film mode, I guess I need to write down all the settings before doing a Complete Factory reset?


mithrilG60's Avatar mithrilG60 02:59 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

any of these ?? http://www.ebay.com/bhp/blu-ray-demo-disc

Not sure to be honest, I don't know what source they were using for demo'ing the F8500 series at last year's tradeshows. It's the one you see in all the review publications.

1888526

51Z703LsnfL.jpg


etc etc etc
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 03:00 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Wow, that's pretty good you have a box that can convert to 1080p. I'm still stuck with 1080i conversion, even with DirecTV. So I have it set to native. Hopefully this is a trend with better boxes coming out.

It's quite a wonderful little box. No more cable box rental bills! It also streams Amazon Instant Video, Netflix, and Hulu+ (which we wanted for the previous device the box fed).

Go to Samsungg.com, or Amazon, or whatever your favorite source of info is, and search for Samsung GX-SM530CF.

'course, it won't tune DirecTV...
Dougofthenorth's Avatar Dougofthenorth 03:06 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mithrilG60 View Post

Not sure to be honest, I don't know what source they were using for demo'ing the F8500 series at last year's tradeshows. It's the one you see in all the review publications.

1888526

51Z703LsnfL.jpg


etc etc etc

According to web postings, they were giving them away at the kiosk at CES

Contact Samsung & try & score one???
paligap's Avatar paligap 03:14 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post

I would not switch your cable box out of native mode. First, because the cable box is 1080i, and any 1080i signal that comes into it, such as NBC is not even processed by the box, and that is sent to tv to convert to 1080p. 720p signal is converted by the box to 1080i and then sent to the tv to be converted to 1080p. Leaving it in native mode sends the 720p signal to your tv to be converted to 1080p. By letting the cable box convert, you are processing the 720p signal twice, instead of once, thus you are more likely to get a bad picture letting the cable box convert a 720p feed. In general, it is almost always recommended to set your cable or satellite box to native.

I think I've read just the opposite advice. It may have been in the context of using a video processor between the cable/satellite box and the TV.
mithrilG60's Avatar mithrilG60 03:17 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

According to web postings, they were giving them away at the kiosk at CES

Contact Samsung & try & score one???

Cool, thanks for the heads up!
wxman's Avatar wxman 03:31 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by sam2013 View Post


Oh Wxman, Yesterday I noticed Auto 1 and Auto 2 features are greyed out When I set to Film mode, I guess I need to write down all the settings before doing a Complete Factory reset?

You need to have it on a station that is 1080i to see it, otherwise it will be greyed out.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 03:35 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

Yes, it did look very much like that. And, I did have BO enabled.

Hmmm, I'll clearly need to experiment more. My problem has been that, since I installed the TV, pretty much 100% of the time that I am free and able to be in the same room with it, my wife has wanted to either watch one of her weekly shows, or watch the Olympics (she is a huge fan) later than I can stay awake.

So the amount of fiddling around I can do has been limited until the Olympics are over.

(That's why, when I saw the trailing dots, I quickly said "Nope" and put it right back where it had been before, since it was in the middle of an ice dancing competition).

Actually I did not respond correctly in my last post, I was on Tapatalk and in a hurry:

Do you use Film Auto1 or Auto2 for broadcast TV?
It could be that. I view broadcast in 1080p so the option is not available to me (my HTPC deals with the upconversion and interlacing).

I cannot use CS and BO together for 24p content, the motion pixels are very evident.
I can use BO by itself for 1080p 60Hz and 1080p 24Hz without the pixel problem.

So to clarify it may not be BO you have to disable, but a combination of Film Mode disable / BO enable etc.
mmmccall's Avatar mmmccall 03:50 PM 02-19-2014
Is there a consensus about using an AVR to upconvert cable to 1080p before sending to the F8500? I have a Denon X3000 and have it set to merely pass through the cable signal to the tv set. I also have a Darblet placed after the receiver and before the display.

Pie - what are your thoughts on this? Should I be using my AVR to upconvert DirecTV to 1080p before sending it to the Darblet and then into the display. Or should I leave the DirecTV on Native and set the AVR to passthrough?
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 04:09 PM 02-19-2014
I would try both types and decide which works best. I have no option so I have to use 1080p for all TV.
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 04:09 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Actually I did not respond correctly in my last post, I was on Tapatalk and in a hurry:

Do you use Film1 or Film2 for broadcast TV?
It could be that. I view broadcast in 1080p so the option is not available to me (my HTPC deals with the upconversion and interlacing).

With the picture we're currently utilizing, it's a 1080p input (upconverted by the cable box I bought), so the film modes aren't availiable.

When I saw the strange artifacts using native resolution into the TV, I had the Film Mode on Auto 2, and the incoming resolutioh was most likely 1080i (NBC, Olympics, ice dancing solo competition).

I do want to experiment more, when I am allowed to do so by She Who Must Be Obeyed.

That's good info about 24p content, though, thanks, that is relevant to my Oppo Blu-Ray player.
shadowspawn's Avatar shadowspawn 04:14 PM 02-19-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmccall View Post

Is there a consensus about using an AVR to upconvert cable to 1080p before sending to the F8500? I have a Denon X3000 and have it set to merely pass through the cable signal to the tv set. I also have a Darblet placed after the receiver and before the display.

FWIW, I put the Darblet between the 1080p cable signal (upconverted by the cable box I own) and the F8500, and I could not detect a beneficial effect in demo mode. It was just kind of "Meh, no real improvement" at the settings most people use, and when I turned it up to where I could see an effect, it was not good.

I may have more info after the Olympics are over and I can run more controlled experiments. I'm not done with this thread of investigation.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 04:40 PM 02-19-2014
^ Pause some decent depth content and turn the Darbee on and off. You will see what it's doing wink.gif
Tags: Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn60f8500 60 Inch 1080p 600hz 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn64f8500 64 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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