Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 178 - AVS Forum
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post #5311 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

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I have a strange problem on my 6 week old 64F8500, that ruins my enjoyment of the TV, which started when it was less than a month old.

On Tuesday, March 18, the Samsung Tech came out. He was disconcerted, and said that he had never seen or heard of my problem, but he was pretty sure it was the main board, so he swapped the main board. It didn't fix the problem. He was surprised. He called up someone technical at Samsung, and they had never heard of such a problem either. He took pictures with his cell phone and sent them to whomever he was talking to at Samsung.
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So, following up on my own post partially quoted above, now I am REALLY skeptical and worried. Really.

The Samsung tech is coming back tomorrow to work on the 64F8500 again. They tell me that he is going to fix it by installing new firmware. Firmware that is not released, and is not available to anyone else (yet). Special firmware for me.

I'm highly skeptical, because (as has been discussed in this sub-thread previously), there is a lot of logical reason to believe that my problem has nothing to do with firmware.

I'm also highly skeptical, because (I might be wrong) my suspicion is that all firmware comes from Korea, and they (given the issues involved with a global technical enterprise, I have been in that place myself before) cannot possibly have developed a firmware release to fix my problem, which nobody had ever reported before, in the last week.

So much for skepticism. On to being worried and scared.

I'm worried that someone actually DID cook up a firmware change. Which will fix my problem by disabling the Black Optimizer, or permanently lowering the black levels, or something else that make the symptom go away, while degrading the picture. Because the flickering on the lower part of the screen happens when then F8500 tries to darken the lower part of the screen significantly with respect to highly white images the top part of the screen.

(Oh, and maybe change the picture for all the rest of you, if this is firmware that is scheduled to go mainstream, and not just a one-off for me).

I'm looking for advice here, as I am feeling really jerked around by Samsung, but in my many decades of life, I have never had to go to the mat with a manufacturer before.

If they install firmware the degrades the picture to avoid producing the symptom, what is my best response?

* Sue them in small claims court for breach of warranty?

* Is there an escalation process that anyone has found, which is effective?

* Any other ideas or suggestions?

Thank you for your wise advice.
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post #5312 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 06:57 PM
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A lot of Calibrators start out by turning the sharpness to 0. It used to be the thing to do, and in the biggest majority of Displays produced only a couple of years ago that was correct for 90% of the Displays made. Only in the last couple of years have the companies found out that there needs to be a little play in the sharpness control.

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post #5313 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 07:16 PM
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Not impressed with black levels on TV yet.I've read and heard display looks pretty good out of box. I have my contrast down to 30 and cell light at 12 for break in period. I have it on movie mode and dark room on. The blacks look greyish black and have a lighted effect to them... Looks like a LCD black level. I don't have any deep inky blacks. Any ideas?
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post #5314 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 07:43 PM
 
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^ Set your HDMI black level on the TV appropriately.
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post #5315 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 07:46 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Glenee View Post

...Only in the last couple of years have the companies found out that there needs to be a little play in the sharpness control.

I agree. Dependant on source material of course it should be tweaked up a tickle.

-Also there are some people actually like the artificial edges produced by cranking it up...
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post #5316 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 07:58 PM
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How do I set HDMI black level? Its greyed out in options
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post #5317 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 09:11 PM
 
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If it's greyed out then your source is supplying YCbCr which means the TV is set correctly.
What is your source?
Have you performed a manual eye calibration of the basics with a calibration disc yet?
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post #5318 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 09:30 PM
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Its a ps4... I went in and changed rgb to full from auto as well as the other setting (Y PR/cb) or whatever ...saw no difference..
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post #5319 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by hove131 View Post

Its a ps4... I went in and changed rgb to full from auto as well as the other setting (Y PR/cb) or whatever ...saw no difference..

I have learned that when people say "inky blacks," they are really just saying "as black as plasma televisions can get." There is just no such thing. There will always be a glow for plasmas, and I think the more I try to be picky about "I wish I had inky blacks," the more I realize it's just not possible with this technology.

However, the blacks on the F8500 are significantly better than the blacks on the D7000.
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post #5320 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 10:12 PM
 
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^ You could be right. I may have misread the OPs 'definition' of black and what context...

OLED will be the one wink.gif
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post #5321 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 10:27 PM
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Yep Oled is very black.... Just look at these newer phones out...inky as can be.
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post #5322 of 9937 Old 04-02-2014, 11:57 PM
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So I just got my new 60F8500. Started the break in slides and noticed this. A couple rows of pixels are missing from the left and top edges of the TV. The pixels on the right side and bottom are lit all the way to the edges.

IMG_1152_zps31f41c79.jpg

After ten minutes I noticed that the pixels on the left edge lit up. But on the top there are still 4 rows of pixels that are still dim.

IMG_1161_zps8fbd2de6.jpg

I left the slideshow to continue for another hour and now the left and top edges all lit. But on the right side I'm noticing a row of pixel that is now dim. When watch HD programming with my cox cable I see the same behavior.

So is this normal? Should I return for another TV. Believe it or not this is my second set. The first set did something similar. I'm starting to second guess myself that maybe they all do this? Any advice appreciated.
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post #5323 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:04 AM
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That Is the pixel orbiter in action....normal...leaves room to shift pixels on outer edges
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post #5324 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 06:34 AM
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When I ran the break in slides on mine, I turned the Pixel shifter OFF and Screen Fit ON. This was so I was energizing all Pixel's the same.

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post #5325 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hove131 View Post

Not impressed with black levels on TV yet.I've read and heard display looks pretty good out of box. I have my contrast down to 30 and cell light at 12 for break in period. I have it on movie mode and dark room on. The blacks look greyish black and have a lighted effect to them... Looks like a LCD black level. I don't have any deep inky blacks. Any ideas?

 

Some great recommended settings in another thread in this forum for this model TV.

 

I left HBO on for 5 days to break my TV in.  No logos or trailers and plenty of different types of content. 


Samsung PN64F8500 Smart TV (64" Plasma-2013); LG BD 390 Blu-ray Player; Denon AVR-1709; Nakamichi MB CD Player; Verizon FiOS Motorola 7 Series Cable Box (500GB Hard Drive).  Pioneer Elite 1120 (5th Generation Plasma- 2005); Denon AVR 2800 (2000); Oppo Blu-ray 103 w/Roku Stick; Sony Carousal CD;...
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post #5326 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 07:51 AM
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Gentlemen:

 

I've now had this TV for 3 weeks and couldn't be happier.  The picture is awesome!  Also, having Smart Apps and a universal remote are features I wouldn't want to live without.   I've set the extra remote that comes with the TV- smaller than an iPhone- to control the TV and my cable box. It controls 90% of what I use the cable box for, so no need to buy a universal remote. Since it's a Smart TV, no need for Roku or other type of device.

 

Skype, Netflix, 3D movies, Facebook, web surfing, and Yes watching TV all in one place!  

 

I realize some of the videophiles here don't feel the "blacks aren't inky enough", but technology is many times about small compromises.  The videophiles may need to give up inky blacks for a stunning overall television.  

 

The blacks are plenty inky black for me.  My Pioneer Elite 1120 upstairs looks dated in comparison now.  PE is still a nice picture, but this Samsung is much better.

 

So, for the non-videophiles out there, BUY THIS TV if you're in the market.  Many videophiles are buying this TV.  There's nothing better out there.  They may stop making plasmas in the next few years and you won't be able to buy a new one any where.  Cnet, Consumer Reports and the videophiles all agree, plasma still delivers the best picture for the money; PERIOD!

 

Buzzing?  You heard that this is an issue.  Not for me, nor anyone I know.  I have to place my ear against the TV to hear it.  All plasmas buzz- BUT that's not how we watch TV is it?  From just a couple feet away I hear nothing.  AND, even if you're more sensitive to the buzzing than I am you don't listen/watch the TV from a couple feet away- you're at least 6-12 feet away, right?  NO BUZZING.

 

Burn in?  My 10 year old Pioneer Elite never even had that issue.  This plasma has the latest technology and burn in is something that may be avoided EASILY.  I ran HBO for the first 5 days- no logos nor news trailers and a variety of programming.  "You don't need no stinking slides" if you're not a videophile (with apologies to Treasure of The Sierra Madre movie fans).   

 

Go to your local BB Magnolia room and check out the TV for yourself.  You won't be disappointed!

 

In case you're wondering, I have absolutely no affiliation with Samsung or any thing related to the sale of televisions.  


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post #5327 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 08:59 AM
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^^^^^^^

 

Agreed, ten-thousand fold.

 

Have no major problems with my F8500.

 

It is perfect.  No buzzing.  No dead pixels.  No construction issues.

 

I got lucky.

 

And inky blacks?  You betcha!

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post #5328 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plasmalvr60 View Post

Gentlemen:

Buzzing?  You heard that this is an issue.  Not for me, nor anyone I know.  I have to place my ear against the TV to hear it.  All plasmas buzz- BUT that's not how we watch TV is it?  From just a couple feet away I hear nothing.  AND, even if you're more sensitive to the buzzing than I am you don't listen/watch the TV from a couple feet away- you're at least 6-12 feet away, right?  NO BUZZING.

Agree on all you said - except ...

Unfortunately, quite a few of the 60" are very loud buzzers (front screen) - 41db (or more) 12 feet away is NOT acceptable in any stretch of the imagination,
I exchanged that set & the replacement set is less, but still annoying at times - especially at low volume levels
It even got unacceptably worse when I elevated it on the mount Putting the lower 1/3 of the screen at ear level

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Inky blacks?

Blacks are good for me...I'm used to LCD...I just balance room light with the filter. I can dim the lights quite low to achieve inky blacks with this plasma.

I don't watch in pitch black room...don't understand the fascination...but I'm still learning about videophiles/calibration,

My OLED tablet is AMAZING though...pitch black in a dark room. This is my 1st plasma...from the posts I've read, I was under the impression that the phosphors turn off completely for black.

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post #5330 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
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Agree on all you said - except ...

Unfortunately, quite a few of the 60" are very loud buzzers (front screen) - 41db (or more) 12 feet away is NOT acceptable in any stretch of the imagination,
I exchanged that set & the replacement set is less, but still annoying at times - especially at low volume levels
It even got unacceptably worse when I elevated it on the mount Putting the lower 1/3 of the screen at ear level

 

 

I'm quite certain based on posts I've read that there's a small percentage of defective plasmas being sold.  If buzzing may be heard from 12 feet away by the average listener then I agree that that plasma is defective and should be returned.  But, I think you'll agree that you're probably more sensitive to the buzzing then the general populace is.  I think the buzz issue is more of a personal situation than the preponderance of plasmas having a buzzing issue.  Neophytes to TV technology shouldn't be steered away from plasma because "they heard" plasmas buzz and therefore it's not a good choice.  Plasma continues to be the best choice- best picture for least amount of money. 


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post #5331 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 10:13 AM
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I think the buzz issue is more of a personal situation than the preponderance of plasmas having a buzzing issue.  

 

I tend to agree with that as well.

 

One theory was that older people can't hear it. 

 

Not certain that is entirely true as there have been older adults who have reported the buzzing.

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post #5332 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 10:17 AM
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And.... The Samsung repair tech came today, to install the "new firmware" to fix my flickering and ghosting problem. Brought it on a USB stick.

He looked into the menu on my F8500, and said "You have firmware 1119!".

Well, yes, that's the latest firmware.

"Samsung told me that 1116 would fix your problem, so that's what I brought".

Ummmmm....

"I'll write down that I ensured that the latest firmwre was installed, and it did not fix the problem. Wait until this afternoon, so that my notes can get into the system, and call Samsung to tell them that it's not fixed."

I've now taken 2 days off work to deal with this, and the 64F8500 has been sitting on the floor for almost 3 weeks.

Does anyone have any idea or suggestions as to how to get Samsung to fix my F8500 that is less than 2 months old?
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post #5333 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 10:36 AM
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The tech came to "update" your firmware, and he was armed with a firmware version that is 3 generations old?

*Facepalm*

I think, that the next time a Samsung tech comes to your house, you need to take him hostage, and tell Samsung that you'll release him when your TV is fixed! (Just kidding, of course, but wow . . . . that is totally unacceptable.)

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^ They are not Samsung techs wink.gif
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post #5335 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:03 PM
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^ They are not Samsung techs wink.gif

This is true. But there's some kind of complex inter-relationships that I don't understand.

I live in Northern New England. But the paperwork and phone calls come from a repair company on Long Island.

But this tech seems to be local, because they have gotten him here with 2 days notice both times, and it would have been next-day this time if he got any cancellations.

But he drives a van with New York plates, [edit] it's white and has the official Samsung logo painted on the side, in blue and white.
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post #5336 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:23 PM
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I finally watch Pacific Rim. The movie was pretty good. I have to say though, WOW it was gorgeous! Any other movies I should be watching?

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post #5337 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:28 PM
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The Great Gatsby, Gravity, Frozen, Avengers, Thor, Transformers, Elysium, Captain Philips, .....

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post #5338 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:38 PM
 
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Quote:
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This is true. But there's some kind of complex inter-relationships that I don't understand.

I live in Northern New England. But the paperwork and phone calls come from a repair company on Long Island.

But this tech seems to be local, because they have gotten him here with 2 days notice both times, and it would have been next-day this time if he got any cancellations.

But he drives a van with New York plates, and it has "Samsung" painted on the side in big letters.

Here it's just a guy in a [insert choice of color here] van that works for a third party.
They attend on-site for other makes of TV work too. It depends if they have the contract with the manufacturer.
They have access to the Samsung tech web portal and are able to be the middle men for parts.

/if in doubt, swap a part out *motto* wink.gif
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post #5339 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 12:58 PM
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Oh, by the way, the tech told me that they have firmware 1120 running "in the lab", but he couldn't get it.
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post #5340 of 9937 Old 04-03-2014, 01:26 PM
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I have a ps4 and am confused on what settings for video output.... Should I set rgb to auto ..limited or full? What about the other ssetting as well... Its something with letters and back slashes... I experimented with changing them to full from auto and couldn't tell any difference
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