Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 224 - AVS Forum
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post #6691 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by max-n-tanner View Post
Just bought the 60"! Love it! How do I access cal-day mode? Also I like my tv very bright. Are there any calibration I can use that is very bright? By the way I love this discussion! Read the comments everyday!

Just leave it in Dynamic Mode - will burn out your eyes, but to each their own!

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post #6692 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 05:02 PM
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I don't think the light output variation is due to FW, because I've gotten results all over the map with the latest FW (light output in the 40s to mid 60s with similar settings, and very different black levels as well). I do not have any "insider" information on the subject, but it just seems like a high degree of sample to sample variation. I just did one today on which I was able to squeak out 52 fL with contrast at 98, cell light 20, BO at Auto, 5% size 18% APL windows. It looked great, BTW.

The F8500 doesn't seem to be clipping or stressing with those settings, and I believe it'd be OK to use settings like that for a day mode provided the rest of the calibration is built around them.
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post #6693 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
What's it do if you turn off black optimizer?
No change with black optimizer off.
I've tried lots of permutations - it seems like setting Film Mode: Cinema Smooth helps minimize it when watching Dark Knight Rises.

It's weird though - I'm able to recreate it if I bring up the system menu and leave it for 10 seconds. Not every time, but more so when I've been viewing dark content.
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post #6694 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by cgrindst View Post
It's weird though - I'm able to recreate it if I bring up the system menu and leave it for 10 seconds. Not every time, but more so when I've been viewing dark content.
It's not that weird - mine has similar behavior. I was going to try and keep it, but was advised by two different Samsung tech support personnel to return the set because what I was seeing wasn't normal.

Perhaps try calling Samsung about your issue just to see what they say?
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post #6695 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 07:41 PM
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How is this panel for games and sports? I am in the market for a new TV and I was curious as these are the two things I care most about (Don't tell the wife)
I can't speak towards gaming but for sports this TV is the best money can buy in my opinion. I've had the 64 inch model for 2 weeks now and couldn't be happier with what I'm seeing. Once I figured out the settings I tried watching World Cup games, nfl, and nhl content I had saved on my PVR from last season and the picture is fantastic. My girlfriend has a "middle of the road" LED 50 inch set and I've recorded the same content on her PVR as mine and the difference in picture quality is extremely noticeable. The motion blur on an led for sports drives me insane, on the 8500 it's heaven. Buy this set while you still can
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post #6696 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 09:33 PM
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Here's something for Vegas since he crave black levels.

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post #6697 of 6719 Old Yesterday, 09:45 PM
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My little black level / eye strain helper.

A dimmable 17W 24" 6500k linear fluorescent.
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post #6698 of 6719 Old Today, 03:53 AM
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Man buying a TV is stressful. Seems every TV has some issue and it makes it tough to decide! I am coming from a Samsung 46 inch LED from 2007, and since plasma is on the way out, I am bouncing between the whole 4K thing, or getting one of these TV's.
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post #6699 of 6719 Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Man buying a TV is stressful. Seems every TV has some issue and it makes it tough to decide! I am coming from a Samsung 46 inch LED from 2007, and since plasma is on the way out, I am bouncing between ditching the whole 4K thing, or and getting one of these TV's.
Fixed that for you.
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post #6700 of 6719 Old Today, 07:46 AM
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Here's something for Vegas since he crave black levels.


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post #6701 of 6719 Old Today, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by leetchie69 View Post
The post was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek. My 64" F8500 doesn't have perfect black levels. There is some black glow on the F8500. The camera can't capture what I see in person since it doesn't have adequate dynamic range. If the room is completely dark, the black glow is easily noticeable if you pause a black screen and give your eyes a few seconds to adjust (from the brighter content that preceded it). The F8500 is a bit better than my Hitachi RP-CRT's (57S715) in terms of black glow. Granted I could adjust the brightness and contrast on the Hitachi so that a black screen was perfectly black, but those setting crush the darkest non black grays quite a bit. When I properly set the Hitachi RP-CRT so it isn't crushing the very dark grays it has black glow as well. The black glow is why I DIY'd an adjustable brightness 6500K bias light and mounted it behind the F8500 shining on the white wall. When it's on, my eyes don't adjust enough to notice the black glow. At the current brightness setting I'm using for the bias light if you really focus you can just barely make out the bezel from the panel.
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post #6702 of 6719 Old Today, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post
I don't think the light output variation is due to FW, because I've gotten results all over the map with the latest FW (light output in the 40s to mid 60s with similar settings, and very different black levels as well). I do not have any "insider" information on the subject, but it just seems like a high degree of sample to sample variation. I just did one today on which I was able to squeak out 52 fL with contrast at 98, cell light 20, BO at Auto, 5% size 18% APL windows. It looked great, BTW.

The F8500 doesn't seem to be clipping or stressing with those settings, and I believe it'd be OK to use settings like that for a day mode provided the rest of the calibration is built around them.
Just curious, but what kind of black levels have you been seeing? Or do I dare open that can of worms?
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post #6703 of 6719 Old Today, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Man buying a TV is stressful. Seems every TV has some issue and it makes it tough to decide! I am coming from a Samsung 46 inch LED from 2007, and since plasma is on the way out, I am bouncing between the whole 4K thing, or getting one of these TV's.
I just did the same thing. I chose the 8500 over an led display.
There is just not much 4k material right now, and it will be years before you get any
from your cable or satellite provider. By that time, hopefully OLED will be fully developed
and prices will have dropped to reasonable levels.
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post #6704 of 6719 Old Today, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Bodine View Post
I just did the same thing. I chose the 8500 over an led display.
There is just not much 4k material right now, and it will be years before you get any
from your cable or satellite provider. By that time, hopefully OLED will be fully developed
and prices will have dropped to reasonable levels.
Do you game at all? I am wondering how my XBO/PS4 will be on it. That is a key decision for me also. I have not tried/don't think I will be hooking up my PC.
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post #6705 of 6719 Old Today, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ParityBit View Post
Do you game at all? I am wondering how my XBO/PS4 will be on it. That is a key decision for me also. I have not tried/don't think I will be hooking up my PC.

It all depends on how serious of a gamer you are l, what type of games you play and how sensitive you are to lag. Some people don't notice much of it l, but others will and hate it. I wouldn't say the F8500 is a pure gaming set at all. It's good for the casual gamer. If you are a serious gamer and need low lag I would recommend one of the Sony sets or see how the P series turns out from Vizio. This is due to their low lag modes. Of course you will be taking a hit in other areas with these sets so it comes down to why are you willing to live with. There have been more than a few reports in the F8500 threads from those that have tested gaming. It will take some searching but they are there.


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post #6706 of 6719 Old Today, 09:40 AM
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Very curious to see how the 8500 performs now in the next VE Shootout. I can only assume they will be using a newer set, which may or may not hit the same numbers from 2013.
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post #6707 of 6719 Old Today, 10:10 AM
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I am a gamer, but I am not a pro-level gamer. I am too old and not enough time for that! I just would hope it would not be really noticeable.

Is $3K too much for the 64 inch version (2013)?
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post
It all depends on how serious of a gamer you are l, what type of games you play and how sensitive you are to lag. Some people don't notice much of it l, but others will and hate it. I wouldn't say the F8500 is a pure gaming set at all. It's good for the casual gamer. If you are a serious gamer and need low lag I would recommend one of the Sony sets or see how the P series turns out from Vizio. This is due to their low lag modes. Of course you will be taking a hit in other areas with these sets so it comes down to why are you willing to live with. There have been more than a few reports in the F8500 threads from those that have tested gaming. It will take some searching but they are there.
Well, there are a few other problems besides lag. I see some image quality issues with fast panning. Bright/grey objects tend to get unstable and noisy/fuzzy, but only on fast pans. I see it really bad on clouds on blue skies, particularly in MK8 on tracks like Cheep Cheep beach. On fast corners/turns, the clouds become a noisy, fuzzy, dithered blur that is visible at 6-9ft viewing distances. I didn't notice it at first, but I'm overly sensitive to it now and its making me reconsider keeping the set.

I don't see the noise during movies or tv watching though. Mainly Wii U games (MK8, DK:TF, SM 3d World). I thought at first it was just the Wii U, but I also see the instability on Wipeout HD on the PS3 on tracks like Sol 2.
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post #6709 of 6719 Old Today, 10:22 AM
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Is $3K too much for the 64 inch version (2013)?
That depends on where you live and some other factors. Is that an out the door price?

BTW, there's no such thing as a 2013 F8500 vs. a 2014 F8500. It's the same TV. Some were made in 2013 and some were made in 2014, but aside from the firmware that was loaded in the TV they're supposed to all be the same.
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post #6710 of 6719 Old Today, 10:25 AM
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Well, there are a few other problems besides lag. I see some image quality issues with fast panning. Bright/grey objects tend to get unstable and noisy/fuzzy, but only on fast pans. I see it really bad on clouds on blue skies, particularly in MK8 on tracks like Cheep Cheep beach. On fast corners/turns, the clouds become a noisy, fuzzy, dithered blur that is visible at 6-9ft viewing distances. I didn't notice it at first, but I'm overly sensitive to it now and its making me reconsider keeping the set.

I don't see the noise during movies or tv watching though. Mainly Wii U games (MK8, DK:TF, SM 3d World). I thought at first it was just the Wii U, but I also see the instability on Wipeout HD on the PS3 on tracks like Sol 2.
Do you have motion judder turned off? When I had mine set to smooth or whatever the middle setting is (old age memory loss has set in) I would see what you're seeing, then I turned it to off and suddenly motion looked the way it should to me and the other problems you mention went away.

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I am a gamer, but I am not a pro-level gamer. I am too old and not enough time for that! I just would hope it would not be really noticeable.

Is $3K too much for the 64 inch version (2013)?
I'm in Canada and 3K is what I paid. I could not find it at any big box retailer, a small local shop had one in stock listed for $3500, asked if they would take $3K and they went for it. I was happy with that price considering big box stores all have it listed for $3500 in Canada and I don't think you can haggle with them like you can with a smaller store. Probably also helped that I bought two 42 inch 4500 models for $400 each while I was there (I'm in the process of building my dream sports viewing wall, 64 inch F8500 on one side with two 42 inch 4500 plasmas on the other)
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That depends on where you live and some other factors. Is that an out the door price?

BTW, there's no such thing as a 2013 F8500 vs. a 2014 F8500. It's the same TV. Some were made in 2013 and some were made in 2014, but aside from the firmware that was loaded in the TV they're supposed to all be the same.
It is from Amazon and that is the price it is at currently.

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I'm in Canada and 3K is what I paid. I could not find it at any big box retailer, a small local shop had one in stock listed for $3500, asked if they would take $3K and they went for it. I was happy with that price considering big box stores all have it listed for $3500 in Canada and I don't think you can haggle with them like you can with a smaller store. Probably also helped that I bought two 42 inch 4500 models for $400 each while I was there (I'm in the process of building my dream sports viewing wall, 64 inch F8500 on one side with two 42 inch 4500 plasmas on the other)
That sounds really nice. Sounds like you play some games also. You find it nice to play on?
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That sounds really nice. Sounds like you play some games also. You find it nice to play on?

Not a gamer at all, I mainly watch sports and TV shows like game of thrones, 24, suits, some other HBO ... basically lots of 1080i cable content and a couple blu rays. I can tell you I could not be happier with this TV. When I first got it I was happy with it but only after I figured out how to adjust the settings to my liking did I really start to enjoy it. Now I wouldn't trade it for any other TV. Compared with my girlfriends LED TV there is no comparison, blows it out of the water by a mile.

The only thing I would say is there is a thread on here that discusses possible buzzing issues with the set, with the majority of the posts saying the 60 inch models have the biggest problem. Apparently according to people in that thread who owned multiple sizes due to exchanges the 51 inch and 64 inch TV's were much better than the 60 inch model so thats the only thing I would keep in mind when buying. But I can say that the buzzing is an extremely minor issue with the 64 inch model - actually non-existent unless you're trying to hear it (eg muting the sound, sitting 5 feet away and turning your ear directly towards the middle of the TV). Under any normal viewing with quiet audio and your head facing towards the TV like a normal person you will not have any problems with buzzing based on my experience. But based on what I've read I'd avoid the 60 inch model, some will probably disagree with me on that but if you read that buzzing thread it seems like there is too much evidence pointing towards the 60's having a buzz problem.
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Do you have motion judder turned off? When I had mine set to smooth or whatever the middle setting is (old age memory loss has set in) I would see what you're seeing, then I turned it to off and suddenly motion looked the way it should to me and the other problems you mention went away.
That's what I see in either PC mode or Game mode, which disable motion judder controls and have them at off.
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post #6715 of 6719 Old Today, 12:27 PM
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I got a Question for everybody if these new tv's are coming with a new firmware what is the difference in FW1120 compared to FW1200 that is on these new 2014 made sets Are we ever going to see firmware 1200
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Not sure, but only sets made in June of 2014 have firmware v1200.
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post #6717 of 6719 Old Today, 01:49 PM
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That's what I see in either PC mode or Game mode, which disable motion judder controls and have them at off.
So are you saying games are not nearly as nice on this TV as movies, etc? I have some friends who have the Panny VT60 and love gaming on it. How does this compare? Especially since I can not get that TV.
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So are you saying games are not nearly as nice on this TV as movies, etc? I have some friends who have the Panny VT60 and love gaming on it. How does this compare? Especially since I can not get that TV.
I'm just saying I have some image quality issues with this set which I didn't have on an older Pioneer plasma, and I don't know how to fix/solve it atm. I thought it was my set or maybe a receiver/cable problem, but I have I've noticed a few other people make similar comments

". At times, I thought I glimpsed hints of the dirty screen effect, in which bright panning objects appeared smudged or dirty until they stop moving."... (https://clevelandplasma.com/store/_2...sung_pnxxf8500)

and

"In motion, however, I see what look like noisy trails behind objects on the Samsung. In movies this isn't really an issue, but it's pretty obvious on 60fps content like video games. Maybe it's just something that I'll get accustomed to and stop seeing, like plasma phosphor trails."
... (Thoughts on Samsung f8500 vs Pioneer KRP-500m)

The effect is slightly lessened if I play around with the motion settings, but motion settings are disable in PC and Game modes, modes you have to be in if you want to bring the input lag down.

edit 1: For those that have the TV, if you play
, in addition to the normal flickering of the left/right sides of each box, I see an additional fuzzy 'wake' around the magenta/yellow sliding boxes @ 1 minute or so into that video.

edit 2: I could see the fuzziness while watching Hockey. I don't normally watch it, but when they did a fast pan the dark letters on the ice 'fuzzed.'

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post #6719 of 6719 Old Today, 04:14 PM
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I don't think the light output variation is due to FW, because I've gotten results all over the map with the latest FW (light output in the 40s to mid 60s with similar settings, and very different black levels as well). I do not have any "insider" information on the subject, but it just seems like a high degree of sample to sample variation. I just did one today on which I was able to squeak out 52 fL with contrast at 98, cell light 20, BO at Auto, 5% size 18% APL windows. It looked great, BTW.

The F8500 doesn't seem to be clipping or stressing with those settings, and I believe it'd be OK to use settings like that for a day mode provided the rest of the calibration is built around them.
Have you noticed any quirks/side effects with cinema smooth on vs off?
With Off, I find I need to lower Brightness one tick.
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