Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 247 - AVS Forum
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post #7381 of 8249 Old 08-31-2014, 03:26 PM
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Calman Calibration Software, using the Dynamic Range Workflow for Brightness and Contrast, to get the Columns at their Lowest Points across the board: on my PN64F8500 - Brightness 46 Contrast 84. At these settings, Columns are all virtually either, very slightly above the Zero line, or at it. Cell is left at 20 re Doug Blackburn's talks with Samsung re ABL, and the best setting.
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post #7382 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 07:26 PM
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American "US01" Model?

I just purchased the the 64" F8500, but it won't be getting delivery for a few days. I was told the unit was the U.S. model(as in a US01 model), and not an import. Can anyone tell me how I could check that when the drivers deliver it my house? I'm sure it is printed on the label, but what exactly should I be looking for?

Thanks for the help!
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post #7383 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 08:12 PM
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My wife wants to rearrange the living room. She wants to put my 60 f8500 about 8" from the side of a fairly drafty 4' tall 8' wide window. I live in Minnesota. What do you folks think? Am I right that the possible cold could damage my set?
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post #7384 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028 View Post
My wife wants to rearrange the living room. She wants to put my 60 f8500 about 8" from the side of a fairly drafty 4' tall 8' wide window. I live in Minnesota. What do you folks think? Am I right that the possible cold could damage my set?
Considering the heat these tv's generate out of the back, I don't think the cooler air blowing on it will hurt it. The biggest threat to plasma are power surges, and heat.
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post #7385 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougdabbs View Post
I just purchased the the 64" F8500, but it won't be getting delivery for a few days. I was told the unit was the U.S. model(as in a US01 model), and not an import. Can anyone tell me how I could check that when the drivers deliver it my house? I'm sure it is printed on the label, but what exactly should I be looking for?

Thanks for the help!
The back of the tv will have a label with Version number. US01 should be the version number.
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post #7386 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris5028 View Post
My wife wants to rearrange the living room. She wants to put my 60 f8500 about 8" from the side of a fairly drafty 4' tall 8' wide window. I live in Minnesota. What do you folks think? Am I right that the possible cold could damage my set?
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Considering the heat these tv's generate out of the back, I don't think the cooler air blowing on it will hurt it. The biggest threat to plasma are power surges, and heat.
that's true if it's ALWAYS on. but the worst thing for electronics is constant heat/cold cycling. that's how condensation builds up, and that's never good.

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post #7387 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
fierce

Is the F8500 the display that you're trying to calibrate with the i1D3?
ultimately it will be the jvc x35, but I've been 'practicing' with the f8500. you can see my results so far(I haven't got into the cms yet) in the f8500 settings thread


and I'm sure i'll give my other displays at least a solid once over as well.

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post #7388 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:40 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
that's true if it's ALWAYS on. but the worst thing for electronics is constant heat/cold cycling. that's how condensation builds up, and that's never good.
I was figuring if he was from Minnesota, the window was better insulated. If he gets frost or moisture on the inside of the window in the winter, then condensation would be an issue for the tv close to it. If no condensation occurs on the window, then it should not be an issue. Being from a cold northern climate too, it's quite hard to keep the humidity in the house higher than 35 or 40% in the winter even with a humidifier attached to furnace.
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post #7389 of 8249 Old 09-01-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
I'm not sure who to believe anymore about certain 8500 tv settings, but a number of 8500 owners over the past year on this and the 8500 Recommended Settings threads mentioned to leave Contrast at around 95, because lowering it will increase dithering on the picture. If the screen is too bright with that high contrast, then reduce cell light, and of course, brightness.
the problem with the contrast is if you put it lower than 95(lower than 100 actually I believe) it shifts the 10pt controls and totally messes up the greyscale. it can be fixed, but it takes a lot longer since the 10pt controls no longer line up. I actually haven't heard(or personally noticed) any change in dithering from adjusting the contrast. i'll have to check that out too.


that being said, when I did mine, contrast at 95 and cell light 20, gave me about 50ftl, which is way bright imo. I was able to get good results using contrast setting of 90, but that's still over 35ftl. I would considering that a good setting for ambient light viewing, but it's what I'm going to use full time until I feel like doing something better.




now, with all that being said, this is recent, and I've had my tv being used as my pc monitor with the contrast up at 95 and cell light at 20 for about a year. the ir is basically imperceptible, and never lasts. I now have over 1600hrs on mine, and I accidentally left it on overnight displaying avs forums for about 7hrs straight. that definitely left some ir, but it cleared up within the hour.


so, if you're getting 'the worst ir' after watching one movie. you're either very picky about ir, have a 'dud', or you need to get more hours on the tv. I don't remember every having ir issues, even at the beginning, but I always tend to be a bit overprotective at first, so I'm not even sure how many hours I put on it before doing anything that could cause ir.
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post #7390 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 04:51 AM
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Just to follow up with the IR on the F8500, I have managed to get VERY stubborn IR to the point where I suspect it's uneven phosphor wear (burn in!). It's feint, but it's there.


Ran the set for a month and a half at contrast 70 and cell light at 10 and had no issues, so I thought I'd crank it up to a more normal contrast 95 and cell light 13. However a month later, and now the Sky News logo is visible in the top left on bright scenes. Unfortunately the logo is bright white and since I was passed what I thought would be a sensible break in period I thought it would be ok. Seems not.


I have run the screen wipe for 3 hours a number of times and have watched full screen zoomed in channels on dynamic (torch!) mode to no avail. To be fair, it probably is dimmer and if I keep doing this for another month I suspect it will fade to point where I can't find it anymore. Even now you can only see it if you know it's there and look for it on a bright screen such as white or light sky.I noticed it on 11th August, so it's been there 3 weeks+ so far..

Just be aware that the F8500 is not immune to screen burn and IR...


Cheers
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post #7391 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geves View Post
Just to follow up with the IR on the F8500, I have managed to get VERY stubborn IR to the point where I suspect it's uneven phosphor wear (burn in!). It's feint, but it's there.


Ran the set for a month and a half at contrast 70 and cell light at 10 and had no issues, so I thought I'd crank it up to a more normal contrast 95 and cell light 13. However a month later, and now the Sky News logo is visible in the top left on bright scenes. Unfortunately the logo is bright white and since I was passed what I thought would be a sensible break in period I thought it would be ok. Seems not.


I have run the screen wipe for 3 hours a number of times and have watched full screen zoomed in channels on dynamic (torch!) mode to no avail. To be fair, it probably is dimmer and if I keep doing this for another month I suspect it will fade to point where I can't find it anymore. Even now you can only see it if you know it's there and look for it on a bright screen such as white or light sky.I noticed it on 11th August, so it's been there 3 weeks+ so far..

Just be aware that the F8500 is not immune to screen burn and IR...


Cheers
I recognize you said you allowed the TV to age for 6 weeks but did you actually check the amount of hours was on the set? It's not really about time but rather the amount of hours the phosphors have been active along with the type of content being viewed in order for the phosphors to age properly.

I've had my F8500 for just over a month now (with over 500 hours on on the panel) and up until recently I've keep my settings lower due to eyes being sensitive (and to protect the panel from IR while properly aging the phosphors) but I've been playing around with settings after reading some of the settings recommendations posts from Fierce_GT and I can tell you first hand the F8500 is very much resistant to IR, especially long-term IR.

I have a 2012 Panasonic GT50 and I followed the break-in procedures verbatim and I can't get through a Football game or CNN without IR from the tickers or sports logos. I still have the NFL Network logo on my Panny after several weeks. Used the Disney WOW Blu-ray and the IR remains stubborn. It will go away as other stubborn IR does on my Panny but it's nonetheless frustrating.

On my F8500 I never get any sports logos and the CNN tickers (after being on for over an hour) show up on the black screen the moment I change the channel and within seconds, literally, the IR from the CNN ticker is completely gone. Just to verify I'll turn on the screen wipe and not single hint of IR anywhere in the white slides.

The one major difference between the Panasonic Plasma forums and the Samsung Plasma forums is most of the repeated complaints on Panasonic are about constant IR issues. IR is barely talked about on Samsung.

Just from an observation of your post it sounds like either your phosphors didn't age evenly or you have a faulty panel. You shouldn't be having that much problem with IR.

Last edited by HLdan; 09-02-2014 at 07:22 AM.
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post #7392 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 08:17 AM
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Didn't check the hours, as I don't have the remote with the buttons, but averaged at least 5 hours a day, so for 6 weeks that would make around 210 hours, which I assumed would be enough, given my later settings still had a reduced cell light (13). Note that after this break in there was no IR that I noticed.


With the higher settings it was running for another 6 weeks before I noticed any IR, but I suspect the real issue was that Sky News was a 'default' channel , on for maybe 2 of the next 5 hour daily sessions, so around 40% of the time.


Anyways, I've put it back to the low settings for now and don't watch Sky News, and it seems to be fading, so I guess the other pixels are catching up! Will wait and see after another 6 weeks of this (currently only 3 weeks in).


Note this is not the IR that appears for a few seconds after changing from a static scene for a hour or so. That disappears immediately on changing the content as you noted.
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post #7393 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 08:38 AM
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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geves View Post
Didn't check the hours, as I don't have the remote with the buttons...

You don't need a handheld remote with buttons. If you have an iPhone/iPad, you can download a free app called "myTifi". You can choose from a long list of remotes for Samsung tv's. I like the "AA59-00784C" remote for the 8500. Remote codes are sent via your home network. Service menu activation works fine.

Last edited by DanF8500; 09-02-2014 at 08:42 AM.
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post #7394 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by geves View Post


With the higher settings it was running for another 6 weeks before I noticed any IR, but I suspect the real issue was that Sky News was a 'default' channel , on for maybe 2 of the next 5 hour daily sessions, so around 40% of the time.
probably the key right here. I feel like some ppl end up doing more damage by being overprotective. I know my friend turns his tv off whenever he leaves the room for example. but I think it's better to leave it on, and let it display more varied content.


watching news/sports/gaming isn't an issue, but there's a huge difference between watching the news one hour a day, and nothing else, and watching news one hour a day and 5hrs of other usage.


I use mine as a pc monitor, to game, watch tv, watch letterbox content, etc. but because I do ALL of it, I think it evens out the wear, and I don't get any persistent ir. the key isn't to avoid stuff, it's to use it for everything
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post #7395 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geves View Post
Didn't check the hours, as I don't have the remote with the buttons, but averaged at least 5 hours a day, so for 6 weeks that would make around 210 hours, which I assumed would be enough, given my later settings still had a reduced cell light (13). Note that after this break in there was no IR that I noticed.


With the higher settings it was running for another 6 weeks before I noticed any IR, but I suspect the real issue was that Sky News was a 'default' channel , on for maybe 2 of the next 5 hour daily sessions, so around 40% of the time.


Anyways, I've put it back to the low settings for now and don't watch Sky News, and it seems to be fading, so I guess the other pixels are catching up! Will wait and see after another 6 weeks of this (currently only 3 weeks in).


Note this is not the IR that appears for a few seconds after changing from a static scene for a hour or so. That disappears immediately on changing the content as you noted.
Okay perfect. Sounds like you're doing everything right so far, just make sure your content is mixed quite a bit. Also make sure the Screen Burn Protection is turned on. Go to System-Screen Burn Protection and make sure the Pixel Shift is set to ON.
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post #7396 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
Okay perfect. Sounds like you're doing everything right so far, just make sure your content is mixed quite a bit. Also make sure the Screen Burn Protection is turned on. Go to System-Screen Burn Protection and make sure the Pixel Shift is set to ON.
Screen burn in protection will not work if you set screen size as Screen Fit.
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post #7397 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 09:50 AM
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Hi, I have been using my new 64f8500 for the last few days. The bright scenes are excellent but the dark scenes are hazy. Any suggestions to have best view of the dark scenes too....
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post #7398 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Screen burn in protection will not work if you set screen size as Screen Fit.
Correct. I actually neglected to mention that certain settings will turn off that feature. Did the other member state that he had is F8500 set to Screen Fit? I don't even understand the point of Screen Fit as it doesn't offer true 16:9.
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post #7399 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
Correct. I actually neglected to mention that certain settings will turn off that feature. Did the other member state that he had is F8500 set to Screen Fit? I don't even understand the point of Screen Fit as it doesn't offer true 16:9.
You want to use Screen Fit. It uses true 1:1 pixel mapping. In other words, the image is not altered. When you choose 16:9 you slightly zoom the image and lose about 3% of the video. That why the pixel protection works. The screen is zoomed enough so that it can shift the image. It may be good to use for the first few hundred hours, but after that use Screen Fit to enjoy the way the image is meant to be. You actually lose some resolution using 16:9.
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post #7400 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 10:38 AM
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My original break in settings had 16:9 set so that the pixel shift was on. Once I changed to the brighter settings I moved to screen fit, as I wanted a more calibrated image.


However this setting will only make help with logos that use thin lines as the screen only shifts 4 pixels maximum. Some logos are quite big, so this setting will only blur the edges. Better than nothing though I guess, so it's back to 16:9 for now (or wide zoom if I want to remove the logo completely)!

@fierce_gt I think you hit the nail on the head. It's not so much watching one movie or one sports program so much, but watching the same fixed logo/channel for little while every day over a long period of time. Over time those pixels are going to slowly wear more than the others, especially for bright white logos (Grrr).


Just glad I noticed it when I did and hope it goes eventually!
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post #7401 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geves View Post
My original break in settings had 16:9 set so that the pixel shift was on. Once I changed to the brighter settings I moved to screen fit, as I wanted a more calibrated image.


However this setting will only make help with logos that use thin lines as the screen only shifts 4 pixels maximum. Some logos are quite big, so this setting will only blur the edges. Better than nothing though I guess, so it's back to 16:9 for now (or wide zoom if I want to remove the logo completely)!

@fierce_gt I think you hit the nail on the head. It's not so much watching one movie or one sports program so much, but watching the same fixed logo/channel for little while every day over a long period of time. Over time those pixels are going to slowly wear more than the others, especially for bright white logos (Grrr).


Just glad I noticed it when I did and hope it goes eventually!
Sorry that you have the IR. I have my contrast set at 95, cell light at 20 and screen size set to Screen Fit, and do not have the issue you are having. No lasting IR whatsoever, and I watch a lot of MLB where the scoreboard is always in the same location.
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Sorry that you have the IR. I have my contrast set at 95, cell light at 20 and screen size set to Screen Fit, and do not have the issue you are having. No lasting IR whatsoever, and I watch a lot of MLB where the scoreboard is always in the same location.
How many hours on your set now?
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post #7403 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 10:50 AM
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How many hours on your set now?
Roughly 1600. Do you watch using Standard, or Movie mode? Standard is a brighter image than movie.
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post #7404 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 10:59 AM
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Roughly 1600. Do you watch using Standard, or Movie mode? Standard is a brighter image than movie.
ok, so substantially more than me. I'm probably at around 525 now, so that may explain it a little.


Always been on movie mode from the start for both high and low settings. Just a bit of dynamic recently, but only with full screen movies and no logos to try and shift the IR quicker. Also use dynamic when running the screen wipe to try to maximise it's effect.


Have ECO mode off as well. I note that dims the screen more as well.
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The 8500 isn't immune to image retention. A good 30 hour stint of Dragon's Dogma gave me some good IR (that yellow damn health bar in the bottom right) that lasted several hours of subsequent viewing.





If you are going to watch a lot of IR causing material, I suggest you put on Eco mode low or medium while viewing that content... and then run slides or the auto-scrolling wiper overnight.
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post #7406 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 02:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodrin View Post
The 8500 isn't immune to image retention. A good 30 hour stint of Dragon's Dogma gave me some good IR (that yellow damn health bar in the bottom right) that lasted several hours of subsequent viewing.





If you are going to watch a lot of IR causing material, I suggest you put on Eco mode low or medium while viewing that content... and then run slides or the auto-scrolling wiper overnight.
30 hours? Are you kidding? That's not realistic.
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post #7407 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 03:20 PM
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Been a few weeks since I've checked in but since IR and gaming is being discussed again it's probably worth briefly relating my story again.

Big Demon's/Dark Souls fan and after the release of II last March I probably put a solid 60 hours into the game over a few weeks. Alas I did this with relatively little varied content viewing, probably less than 20 hours. Dark Souls II has some very high contrast graphics that display almost constantly and sure enough 2 of those were definitely visible from my viewing position in light scenes. That remained the case for days and weeks after I first noticed the "persistent IR" let's call it.

Fast forward to today and after a few months of not playing the game and lots of concerted varied viewing finally I can no longer see those same images from where I normally sit. However if I get a few inches away from the screen I can still see a slight ghosting of those 2 graphics in primarily light blue-ish and green-ish backgrounds.

For my display the moral of the story is that persistent IR is definitely still a real possibility for this set, although to be fair it takes a fair bit of irresponsible abuse to make it happen. Now that I know better I'm playing through Diablo 3 with no significant issues, as I am leaving the TV on full screen HD broadcasts for several hours in between long sessions.

That being said, I LOVE this TV still. Mine buzzes to be fair, but the trade off is soooo totally worth it (still might try the Monoprice power conditioner and see if that helps). And using the PC mode makes twitch online gaming perfectly playable while maintaining a damn good looking image IMHO as well.

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post #7408 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
30 hours? Are you kidding? That's not realistic.
I never said it was 30 hours in a row. If you play for 2 weeks, ~2 hours a night, and don't really do anything else w/ that TV... that's 30 hours in a row for that TV. Offline time doesn't really do anything for IR.

Multiple hours of persistent images is very realistic, and very common, for any TV that doesn't have to be shared.
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post #7409 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 04:38 PM
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post #7410 of 8249 Old 09-02-2014, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Lodrin View Post
I never said it was 30 hours in a row. If you play for 2 weeks, ~2 hours a night, and don't really do anything else w/ that TV... that's 30 hours in a row for that TV. Offline time doesn't really do anything for IR.

Multiple hours of persistent images is very realistic, and very common, for any TV that doesn't have to be shared.

"30 hour stint" would make most people think 30 hours strait not 30 hours over 2 weeks. 2 weeks is not a 30 hour stint


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