Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 12:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

That's a weird problem. Sorry please confirm, your TV goes to HDMI1 or your AVR goes to SAT/CableTV?


When anynet is enabled upon startup it goes from sat/cable to tv source .. On hdmi 3 ARC. Its a known issue. Maybe optical cable will solve the conflict

issues with the harmony remote idk
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post #722 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 01:01 PM
 
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^ Okay I think I follow you. As we have the same AVR I can comment;

You could work around this by using the optical cable, then disable 'TV' Source on the AVR and route the optical to any of the other available ports on the AVR in the menu.

Does that make sense? I think it will fix your problem as the AVR wont be able to flick to 'TV'.

This is not related to your Harmony.
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post #723 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 01:03 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ Okay I think I follow you. As we have the same AVR I can comment;

You could work around this by using the optical cable, then 'TV' Source on the AVR and route the optical to any of the other available ports on the AVR.

Does that make sense? I think it will fix your problem as the AVR wont be able to flick to 'TV'.

I plan on doing this but i believe if i delete tv source which anynet defaults too my sound will be non existsnt in the smart hub.. I will be getting the cable tomorrow and will write back about this issue
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post #724 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 01:19 PM
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^^^^

Use optical cable-this is what i do. the headaches, and handshake issues are gone.

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post #725 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I plan on doing this but i believe if i delete tv source which anynet defaults too my sound will be non existsnt in the smart hub.. I will be getting the cable tomorrow and will write back about this issue

Nope - smart hub sound [edit] Any sound originating from your TV will go through optical to the AVR. Make sure PCM is selected on the TV - Sound / Digital Audio Out / Audio Format - PCM

It should all work well.
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post #726 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 01:57 PM
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So how many of you have faint horizontal lines that appear in vertical light backround panning shots?
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post #727 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 02:05 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Nope - smart hub sound [edit] Any sound originating from your TV will go through your optical to the AVR. Make sure PCM is selected on the TV - Sound / Digital Audio Out / Audio Format - PCM

It should all work well.


Cool will do
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post #728 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 06:16 PM
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Cool will do

I know your inquiry was about ARC, but I think the symptom you're describing of it changing your AVR is actually an issue with CEC (Anynet) control and ARC is just a coincidence.

What kind of AVR, sorry if I missed that part? I have a Pioneer VSX-1020 and with CEC (Anynet) enabled to turn on/off the AVR with the TV, anytime the AVR is turned on by the TV, it switches its input to TV/SAT.

If I want CEC to power on/off the TV and AVR, I have to put up with this issue. Minor pain. The other issue I'm having is that CEC works well to turn off the TV/AVR but seems to stop working when it's time to turn everything back on.

I've had to break out the IR blaster and use that to turn on the AVR with the TV. It's a bit janky, but it seems to be working and obviates the fact that I used to just leave the AVR on all the time. My main issue is that the AVR is behind a closed cabinet, so I was really hoping to get CEC working well. I seem to have accomplished what I wanted, just with a bit of a workaround.

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post #729 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 06:43 PM
 
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^ Yes, CEC is the cause, but to work around the annoying issue, you can disable ARC / kill the TV 'input' on the AVR and use an optical cable.
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post #730 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 08:12 PM
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I don't have ARC on my AVR, so I'm already using the Optical cable. Unfortunately my AVR doesn't allow me to disable the TV/SAT input, I can delete it from my selections when flipping, but the TV still switches to it because of CEC.

I've thought about connecting my IPTV (Bell Fibe) to HDMI 1 and using the TV/SAT audio, but then I have to switch inputs on the TV when I want to watch something else, and switch the AVR so that's not a great solution either.

All of that said, I just quickly wanted to chime in on the set. My first Plasma, coming from a Toshiba Regza set from about 7 years back and I watched my first movie last night, Star Trek (the newer one).

Wow.

I've read every post in all of the main threads, exhausting to say the least. I'm glad the focus here has been on the set and general feedback. I've had it for about 3 weeks and because of a very close working relationship with Samsung, didn't have any other sets in mind. The deal I got made it the only choice, so I am glad to see that it lived up to the hype and then some.

I'm not sure about ISF calibration yet, that will be something to think about in a few months, but so far so good.

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post #731 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by poisson View Post

I don't have ARC on my AVR, so I'm already using the Optical cable. Unfortunately my AVR doesn't allow me to disable the TV/SAT input, I can delete it from my selections when flipping, but the TV still switches to it because of CEC.
Have you thought of using a Harmony remote to handle power on and off for each activity that you need? It also allows you to control settings based on activity. That would let you kill CEC. biggrin.gif
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post #732 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 09:39 PM
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Have you thought of using a Harmony remote to handle power on and off for each activity that you need? It also allows you to control settings based on activity. That would let you kill CEC. biggrin.gif

The AVR is behind a cabinet, it's not visible to the Harmony IR, and the other issue I forgot to mention about only using the IR repeater to power on/off the AVR, is that it only seems to work for turning it on, CEC manages turning it off. It seems I'm stuck using both because each only 1/2 works.

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post #733 of 9889 Old 07-16-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

Have you thought of using a Harmony remote to handle power on and off for each activity that you need? It also allows you to control settings based on activity. That would let you kill CEC. biggrin.gif

The AVR is behind a cabinet, it's not visible to the Harmony IR, and the other issue I forgot to mention about only using the IR repeater to power on/off the AVR, is that it only seems to work for turning it on, CEC manages turning it off. It seems I'm stuck using both because each only 1/2 works.
Some Harmony models use RF too, but that won't help you if your AVR can't detect IR signals. What about repair?
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post #734 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 07:41 AM
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Some Harmony models use RF too, but that won't help you if your AVR can't detect IR signals. What about repair?

It's not broken, it's just an incompatibility with CEC that only works to turn off the AVR, and using the F8500 w/IR blaster only works to turn on the AVR. I'm glad I was able to piece it together, once I realized each method only worked for 1/2 of the functions I set them both up and voila.

I was under the impression it was the AVR changing its inputs via CEC, but it looks like the TV is sending this command, based on the comments above.

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post #735 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 10:09 AM
 
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It's not broken, it's just an incompatibility with CEC that only works to turn off the AVR

I had that problem before with my Denon (would only turn on not off), but fixed it by re-syncing CEC on all devices (turning CEC off everywhere), then back on in a different sequence) until the correct combo made on and off work.

-May be worth a try to twiddle.
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post #736 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I had that problem before with my Denon (would only turn on not off), but fixed it by re-syncing CEC on all devices (turning CEC off everywhere), then back on in a different sequence) until the correct combo made on and off work.

-May be worth a try to twiddle.
Be careful. Twiddling can make you go blind.

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post #737 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I had that problem before with my Denon (would only turn on not off), but fixed it by re-syncing CEC on all devices (turning CEC off everywhere), then back on in a different sequence) until the correct combo made on and off work.

-May be worth a try to twiddle.

I thought perhaps there was a way, using the correct sequence, I may play around with it at some point. It's really random, I can tell at times CEC is working because everything powers off correctly, but only occasionally will it be fully functional with volume +/- controlling the AVR and not the TV.

Even then, I don't think that will stop the AVR being switched to TV/SAT, which is really the pain point.

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post #738 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 03:30 PM
 
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^ What is in your HDMI chain?
Mine is:

HTPC ---> Gefen Detective ---> AVR ---> TV
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post #739 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 06:26 PM
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The best way to see if your settings are correct is to watch content from a Blu Ray or other known quality source, not via your HTPC. Kevin's settings were not calibrated to that kind of source. Watch a dark Blu Ray movie like the TDK. You should see black levels that can only be described as 'inky'.

Doesn't seem like whatever source I use blacks don't seem to be as dark as I would thought. I do watch TV in a completely dark room however, even on Netflix dark scenes do show up dark just not as dark as I expected. Picture quality however is stunning and colors pop like I've never scene
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post #740 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 07:46 PM
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I personally expected blacks to be better as well, but my tv is also defective so I will see if the blacks get better after Samsung fixes it.
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post #741 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 09:23 PM
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It's hard to diagnose why blacks may not be up to your expectations. I still have my Sharp Elite that has about the best blacks around and the 8500 is very close to that level. Watching a quality Blu Ray like TDK, blacks are truly inky.

It may be a source or calibration issue. If it's the latter, a calibration can correct that.
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post #742 of 9889 Old 07-17-2013, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

The best way to see if your settings are correct is to watch content from a Blu Ray or other known quality source, not via your HTPC. Kevin's settings were not calibrated to that kind of source. Watch a dark Blu Ray movie like the TDK. You should see black levels that can only be described as 'inky'.

Doesn't seem like whatever source I use blacks don't seem to be as dark as I would thought. I do watch TV in a completely dark room however, even on Netflix dark scenes do show up dark just not as dark as I expected. Picture quality however is stunning and colors pop like I've never scene
Your blacks will look better to you if there is a dim light in the room that's not shinning on the screen or in your field of view. Some people use back lighting behind the panel.

What actual Blu-ray movie disks (titles) have you watched that didn't have satisfying blacks?
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post #743 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 01:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ What is in your HDMI chain?
Mine is:

HTPC ---> Gefen Detective ---> AVR ---> TV

I got my optical cable however the issue with the receiver going to TV source is still there..

I wonder if this is just a denon issue
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post #744 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 03:42 AM
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I personally expected blacks to be better as well, but my tv is also defective so I will see if the blacks get better after Samsung fixes it.
Blacks look inky when set correctly. You can easily achieve this by using the Disney Wow disc for example and ten minutes of your time. If you still aren't satisfied, I recommend paying for a proper calibration if you need a professional to tell you the blacks are as black as the tv is capable of.
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post #745 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 07:00 AM
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I am going to chime in here with my Two Cent's worth. I have seen Professional calibrations I like and other calibrations I don't. It has been my observation that if the Gray scale is reasonably close, which on Samsung it is. Then the rest is all in the customer based settings. The two most important setting to get right are Contrast and Brightness, and always remember that B as in Brightness is Black level. The other one be it Contrast or Picture is white level. Easy enough we all know this. These are easy to get CLOSE with a Test Disc. But wait a minute, if it's that easy how come some of the time when I set my contrast and brightness with a test disc How come it still don't look right or as good as it could ? Well lets throw in the variable's. Broadcaster's, Enviorment, Settings in BPD Player, Settings in Display, and the Director of the films. I have never been able to get one of my Displays Like I like it for at least a couple of weeks, because of the constant adjusting of Contrast, Brightness and Backlight. It's like trying to figure the odds of a lottery Ticket. The thing that has to be understood here is that any adjustment to any one of the variables above Affect's the Other. Usually once I get Backlight or in this Case Celllight it will only be moved Once or twice more during my Eye Calibration Period. Now onto White and Black level. I usually start with White once I am Close. I try to set it where the whites are as close to white as I can get them WITHOUT losing definition. Then I work with the Blacks. There will be a Point where ONE CLICK of either will not be optimum to the EYE, for Black that has always been one click away from crush and the Loss of definition in the black area. Then back to white and so on. You will reach a point slowly where it will all come together and the Backs will look SMOOTH and Black and the whites will Look white and still with Definition and it will be with in one click of each other. It is a painstaking process. It is the only way I know to get it LIKE I LIKE IT. If you have the patience you will find the Combination that works, but it's nothing we can tell you like set your TV here and that's it. It's just not that simple. Even a Professional Calibrator after all the Test equipment has been removed, will play some Disc he knows well to see if it looks right to the NAKED EYE.
No two Panels are the same. This is why transfering Professional settings from one Display to the other seldom obtains optimum. It is just a good place to start.
Then you have the Cowboy Calibrators that do Calibrations only by meter and say that's it. Whoo Hoo I did it.
It takes some work and time by the individual if you don't want to hire a GOOD PRO.
Don't do anything when your Frustrated, there's always another Day.

Just my Opinion.

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post #746 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 07:13 AM
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I am going to chime in here with my Two Cent's worth. I have seen Professional calibrations I like and other calibrations I don't. It has been my observation that if the Gray scale is reasonably close, which on Samsung it is. Then the rest is all in the customer based settings. The two most important setting to get right are Contrast and Brightness, and always remember that B as in Brightness is Black level. The other one be it Contrast or Picture is white level. Easy enough we all know this. These are easy to get CLOSE with a Test Disc. But wait a minute, if it's that easy how come some of the time when I set my contrast and brightness with a test disc How come it still don't look right or as good as it could ? Well lets throw in the variable's. Broadcaster's, Enviorment, Settings in BPD Player, Settings in Display, and the Director of the films. I have never been able to get one of my Displays Like I like it for at least a couple of weeks, because of the constant adjusting of Contrast, Brightness and Backlight. It's like trying to figure the odds of a lottery Ticket. The thing that has to be understood here is that any adjustment to any one of the variables above Affect's the Other. Usually once I get Backlight or in this Case Celllight it will only be moved Once or twice more during my Eye Calibration Period. Now onto White and Black level. I usually start with White once I am Close. I try to set it where the whites are as close to white as I can get them WITHOUT losing definition. Then I work with the Blacks. There will be a Point where ONE CLICK of either will not be optimum to the EYE, for Black that has always been one click away from crush and the Loss of definition in the black area. Then back to white and so on. You will reach a point slowly where it will all come together and the Backs will look SMOOTH and Black and the whites will Look white and still with Definition and it will be with in one click of each other. It is a painstaking process. It is the only way I know to get it LIKE I LIKE IT. If you have the patience you will find the Combination that works, but it's nothing we can tell you like set your TV here and that's it. It's just not that simple. Even a Professional Calibrator after all the Test equipment has been removed, will play some Disc he knows well to see if it looks right to the NAKED EYE.
No two Panels are the same. This is why transfering Professional settings from one Display to the other seldom obtains optimum. It is just a good place to start.
Then you have the Cowboy Calibrators that do Calibrations only by meter and say that's it. Whoo Hoo I did it.
It takes some work and time by the individual if you don't want to hire a GOOD PRO.
Don't do anything when your Frustrated, there's always another Day.

Just my Opinion.
You are 100% correct on all points. However utilizing a simple THX optimizer will allow you to adjust brightness and contrast properly. If you have any version of Star Wars on DVD, or Indiana Jones DVD, they have a built in THX optimizer you can use. Start with adjusting cell brightness to your liking first. I would say 20 is too much and 10 is too low for daytime viewing. Try 15 and see if you need more or less. Going back and forth between contrast and brightness with test patterns is easier than adjusting via any particular movie scene in my opinion. When you get close with the test patterns, then you put on any Blu-Ray and disable all image enhancers and figure out how much sharpness if any you like to see. I actually prefer a little sharpness over none at all, but that's just me.
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post #747 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ What is in your HDMI chain?
Mine is:

HTPC ---> Gefen Detective ---> AVR ---> TV

IPTV/Apple TV/PS3, etc --> AVR --> TV

Pretty straight forward.

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post #748 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I got my optical cable however the issue with the receiver going to TV source is still there..

I wonder if this is just a denon issue

If you still have CEC turned on, I think the F8500 is sending the command to switch the AVR, the exact thing is happening with my Pioneer, and I thought it was the receiver but the most I about similar issues the more I'm convinced the TV is forcing this change.

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post #749 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 07:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I got my optical cable however the issue with the receiver going to TV source is still there..

I wonder if this is just a denon issue

To continue to use CEC for volume and turning on/off the devices, you have not done the last step which is to turn off the 'TV' input on the Denon. You do not need it any more.
The optical cable is a work around to the problem of the Denon flicking to the TV input.
It cannot change to the 'TV' input if it is disabled on the AVR.
That is the whole point of fixing the problem using optical wink.gif
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post #750 of 9889 Old 07-18-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

It's hard to diagnose why blacks may not be up to your expectations. I still have my Sharp Elite that has about the best blacks around and the 8500 is very close to that level. Watching a quality Blu Ray like TDK, blacks are truly inky.

It may be a source or calibration issue. If it's the latter, a calibration can correct that.

I totally agree. If you're not seeing inky blacks on your 8500 then it's your source or your calibration.
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