Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 254 - AVS Forum
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post #7591 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 06:34 AM
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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post
This is a firmware bug, but it is easily fixable. It happens to me after I turn 'On', and then turn 'Off', the Cinema Smooth function in Film Mode. For some reason, doing this kicks on the Motion Judder Canceller. The MJC setting still reads as 'Off', but it is actually on. To fix it, change the MJC setting to 'Standard' (or one of the other On settings). Then, turn the MJC setting to 'Off'. The soap opera effect should now be completely gone. This will most likely happen again the next time you use Cinema Smooth, or until Samsung fixes it in a future firmware update. BTW, the reason to use Cinema Smooth is to eliminate brightness pops when viewing some 3D content. Basically, one fix breaks something else...go figure!
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I can't help too much with the 24fps stuff, cinema smooth is the 96hz function. I've never used it, I don't know of any other features that change 24hz blurays to something else... I thought the only reason ppl used cinema smooth was with 3D actually. I didn't think it had anything to do with making blacks deeper, that's black optimizer(another feature you lose with pc mode).


the image quality in PC mode is still pretty darn good. you, myself, many board members would see the difference when compared side by side, but I doubt 90% of the general population would see the difference unless deliberately pointed out. I'd still take the f8500 in pc mode over just about anything else still on the market.


specifically, pc mode lets you control brightness, contrast, sharpness, color temp, and white balance(2pt only). that's it!


funny you compared the st60 and vt60 for input lag, as from what I've seen, it seems like the f8500 in game mode is comparable to the st60, and the f8500 in pc mode is comparable to the vt60. maybe you are somebody that be ok with pc mode but not game mode.
Damn this Cinema Smooth bug seems to be a pain in the a$$.......i hope it doesn't become a deal breaker for me. Id hate to have to fiddle with MJC everyone I use CS with blu-rays.....id consider selling or returning the set if that was the case

I don't know why Samsung hasn't fixed this yet. the set has been out for almost 2 years now. Not enough complaints from owners?

The first thing imma do when I have the F8500 is call in about the input lag on game mode and ask they fix it. And then I'm going to ask for a fix on CS/MJC. If those brightness pops on 3D content is there without using CS then id have to consider my options again......the zt60 is basically problem free in those aspects. Its only the brightness I'm after...especially with what I read on using Cal-Day....id love to get 84 fL * drools *

Guys better get on the phone and complain about something before they remove the engineers away from F8500 tech support!

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post #7592 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 06:42 AM
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Originally Posted by breezy2012 View Post
@Music - I can't imagine you won't enjoy it. It really is quite a piece of technology.
Well it is just behind the ZT/VT60 in black levels and colour, etc. I have the zt60 and it has a VERY nice picture so i expect something exceedingly similar from the f8500

Ill just have to see how the brightness pops in 3d with CS engaged is and if this MJC occasionally turning on, despite its menu option being disabled, is that problematic. I know for a fact it would bother me if happened very very often.

.....

Im seriously gonna harass samsung tech support when I own the set so they can fix it within the month. No lie. Why haven't you guys done anything to notify Samsug tech about it?

I was following the F8000 for a bit and noticed those owners were persistent about all issues with samsung tech and most of the issues got fixed. Not sure if inout lag was addressed tho, i stopped following it. I guess ill pop into the thread and ask

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post #7593 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 06:46 AM
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Hi,
Can anybody tel me that Either Microsoft Mobile 5000 or Microsoft Wedge Mobile Bluetooth keyboard work with This Plasma set (PS51F8500) ? I am asking before make decision to buy one of them. what criteria i have to check for Bluetooth compatible keyboard thanks.
I'm not familiar with the Microsoft keyboards, but I use this keyboard with the F8500, and it works quite well:


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
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post #7594 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
And then I'm going to ask for a fix on CS/MJC. If those brightness pops on 3D content is there without using CS then id have to consider my options again......
In my experience, the 3D brightness pops appear to be random. I have close to one hundred 3D Blu-ray discs and most play perfectly fine without engaging Cinema Smooth. When I do encounter the issue, I just turn on CS and the problem goes away. I have no idea why the problem manifests itself, but if I had to guess, my money would be on the content provider doing something slightly non-standard or out of spec in the authoring process, that the F8500 doesn't like. The fact that it is a random issue and only happens with some content makes me think it is a software problem and not a TV hardware problem. BTW, I never see brightness pops when watching 3D on Netflix or channels like 3Net.
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post #7595 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post
In my experience, the 3D brightness pops appear to be random. I have close to one hundred 3D Blu-ray discs and most play perfectly fine without engaging Cinema Smooth. When I do encounter the issue, I just turn on CS and the problem goes away. I have no idea why the problem manifests itself, but if I had to guess, my money would be on the content provider doing something slightly non-standard or out of spec in the authoring process, that the F8500 doesn't like. The fact that it is a random issue and only happens with some content makes me think it is a software problem and not a TV hardware problem. BTW, I never see brightness pops when watching 3D on Netflix or channels like 3Net.
This is so bizarre......
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post #7596 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Damn this Cinema Smooth bug seems to be a pain in the a$$.......i hope it doesn't become a deal breaker for me. Id hate to have to fiddle with MJC everyone I use CS with blu-rays.....id consider selling or returning the set if that was the case

I don't know why Samsung hasn't fixed this yet. the set has been out for almost 2 years now. Not enough complaints from owners?

The first thing imma do when I have the F8500 is call in about the input lag on game mode and ask they fix it. And then I'm going to ask for a fix on CS/MJC. If those brightness pops on 3D content is there without using CS then id have to consider my options again......the zt60 is basically problem free in those aspects. Its only the brightness I'm after...especially with what I read on using Cal-Day....id love to get 84 fL * drools *

Guys better get on the phone and complain about something before they remove the engineers away from F8500 tech support!

I don't think anybody's gotten over 60ftl in at least a year. the story is too many ppl complained to Samsung and that was part of their 'fw fix'...haha. so be careful what you ask for. the only way to get less input lag is to reduce picture quality...

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post #7597 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Damn this Cinema Smooth bug seems to be a pain in the a$$.......i hope it doesn't become a deal breaker for me. Id hate to have to fiddle with MJC everyone I use CS with blu-rays.....id consider selling or returning the set if that was the case

I don't know why Samsung hasn't fixed this yet. the set has been out for almost 2 years now. Not enough complaints from owners?

The first thing imma do when I have the F8500 is call in about the input lag on game mode and ask they fix it. And then I'm going to ask for a fix on CS/MJC. If those brightness pops on 3D content is there without using CS then id have to consider my options again......the zt60 is basically problem free in those aspects. Its only the brightness I'm after...especially with what I read on using Cal-Day....id love to get 84 fL * drools *

Guys better get on the phone and complain about something before they remove the engineers away from F8500 tech support!
I hate to be the Debbie Downer and tell you not to waste your time but you do realize Samsung is ending their Plasma era in just over 60 days? If they haven't fix these issues by now.....

The ZT60 may be "problem-free" in this respect but it certainly isn't problem-free in general. Trust the fact that many owners of the ZT60 are annoyed with the fan issues, the overheating issues, along with Panasonic's legendary IR magnet panels.

You can go right ahead and call Samsung to complain and demand they fix these issues, just expect to get this: Uh Huh, Uh Huh, Uh Huh, okay sir we will forward this to our technical department...blah blah blah. The last time they upgraded firmware for the earlier F8500's was back in February.

As far as getting this forum to call Samsung to complain. Well, we can try but even with 100 people here calling Samsung that's basically nobody in Samsung's eyes. But even so, it's too late in the game to expect them to do anything now. Overall the F8500 runs beautifully and it won this year's VE Shootout in the color accuracy category. Videogame lag is probably the least of Samsung's concerns.

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post #7598 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I know the F8500 can give a bit better 3D image so Ill have to wait and see just how much better it is the zt60 I have.....but one thing Im wanting the F8500 for is the lack of IR and burn in complaints from owners
It's night and day.

I returned my ZT60. Too damn dark. 3D was horrible because the display did not push the brightness.

The F8500, for me, is greatly superior to the ZT60.
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post #7599 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
Damn this Cinema Smooth bug seems to be a pain in the a$$.......i hope it doesn't become a deal breaker for me. Id hate to have to fiddle with MJC everyone I use CS with blu-rays.....id consider selling or returning the set if that was the case

I don't know why Samsung hasn't fixed this yet. the set has been out for almost 2 years now. Not enough complaints from owners?
I don't encounter the bug. It's really easy to avoid. Send the TV a 1080p24 (23.976...) signal, turn on Cinema Smooth and don't turn it off. From now on anytime you send 1080p24 to the TV on that input Cinema Smooth will be turned on. I have no idea why you'd want to go to the trouble of sending the TV a 1080p24 signal and have Cinema Smooth off. It you want 3:2 cadence judder on your 1080p24 content you can just send the TV 1080p60.
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post #7600 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I don't think anybody's gotten over 60ftl in at least a year. the story is too many ppl complained to Samsung and that was part of their 'fw fix'...haha. so be careful what you ask for. the only way to get less input lag is to reduce picture quality...
i know...i know....damn, I didn't know there were this many issues were the F8500.

I just finished reading a thread about abl function on the F8500 and now I'm even MORE confused about how to self-calibrate this set. Its weird, like, Still trying to figure out if using a cell light of 20 is worth having 10 pts not align.

This thread: Samsung Cell Light Control - Explained by a Samsung insider

I couldn't even attempt to calibrate it even if i tried...id have to get D-nice to come down and he was the one sole calibrator speaking to Samsung Korea Engineers about this. Problem is, I live in Canada.

He was suppose to come down and tinker with my zt60 but didn't get back to me this summer

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I hate to be the Debbie Downer and tell you not to waste your time but you do realize Samsung is ending their Plasma era in just over 60 days? If they haven't fix these issues by now.....

The ZT60 may be "problem-free" in this respect but it certainly isn't problem-free in general. Trust the fact that many owners of the ZT60 are annoyed with the fan issues, the overheating issues, along with Panasonic's legendary IR magnet panels.

You can go right ahead and call Samsung to complain and demand they fix these issues, just expect to get this: Uh Huh, Uh Huh, Uh Huh, okay sir we will forward this to our technical department...blah blah blah. The last time they upgraded firmware for the earlier F8500's was back in February.

As far as getting this forum to call Samsung to complain. Well, we can try but even with 100 people here calling Samsung that's basically nobody in Samsung's eyes. But even so, it's too late in the game to expect them to do anything now. Overall the F8500 runs beautifully and it won this year's VE Shootout in the color accuracy category. Videogame lag is probably the least of Samsung's concerns.
Not an issue for me on those two areas. Fan fix is a free fix by Panasonic. As for overheating? Um....i haven't had any issue with it overheating. It does get hot. I think you got that because some folks have added fans to the rear aid ventilation. Hell I added fans to my receiver and amp to keep em nice and cool. DOesnt mean they overheat as well

There was one fella who took infared thermal pics of his screen cuz he saw some uneven-ness in coloured slides. Sad story for him but folks need to be careful about adequate ventilation for the set too. I have at least a foot space from the rear wall.

But you may be right about Samsung Tech giving me the shoulder about future updates and the ZT/VT60 can be IR magnets LOL. But majority of displays ( 90% ) it goes away

Guys, CALL THEM RIGHT NOW AND COMPLAIN ABOUT THE FEATURES

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It's night and day.

I returned my ZT60. Too damn dark. 3D was horrible because the display did not push the brightness.

The F8500, for me, is greatly superior to the ZT60.
LOL Too Dark? Were you wearing sun glasses?

FWIW sir, the ZT60 can now be calibrated in panel brightness HIGH which yields 50+ fL

3D holds on a slight advantage on the F8500. I know the ZT60 gets to about 6 fL thru the glasses and the F8500 ( according to Chad B ) gets around 8 fL.

Still no where near the original measurement pre firmware updates of 12 fL. Sad, i know.

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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I don't encounter the bug. It's really easy to avoid. Send the TV a 1080p24 (23.976...) signal, turn on Cinema Smooth and don't turn it off. From now on anytime you send 1080p24 to the TV on that input Cinema Smooth will be turned on. I have no idea why you'd want to go to the trouble of sending the TV a 1080p24 signal and have Cinema Smooth off. It you want 3:2 cadence judder on your 1080p24 content you can just send the TV 1080p60.
So what was this one individual talking about -

"If Cinema Smooth is OFF and Motion Judder Cancellor is OFF you have to press OFF again on Motion Judder Cancellor. It will stay ON if you dont. It will also swtich to ON when you turn OFF Cinema Smooth even though it says OFF. "

"Yes, there is a bug with the judder control that sometimes requires you to switch it from OFF to ON to OFF again for it to actually remain off."

How come you have never had to do that? Panel variance?

Finally, has anyone attempted to contact samsung at any point in the year to mention these bugs? MJC, input lag, brightness reduction? Just curious if anyone did....maybe samsung couldn't fix the issues

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post #7601 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 10:06 AM
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So what was this one individual talking about - saying MJC would turn on automatically with CS and he'd have to manually engage MJC and disengage it
MJC will turn on, even though it says Off when you turn off Cinema Smooth. If you turn MJC on and then off again MJC will stay off (until you turn Cinema Smooth On and then off again). Cinema Smooth can only be used when the TV receives a 1080p24 signal. So in order to trigger the bug you have to send 1080p24 to the TV and turn off Cinema Smooth. My point was that if you're sending 1080p24 to the TV it makes no sense to turn off Cinema Smooth since turning off Cinema Smooth (with MJC really off) will cause 3:2 cadence judder. Avoiding 3:2 cadence judder is the whole point of sending 1080p24 (instead of 1080p60) to the TV in the first place.
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post #7602 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post
To add to this discussion, remember that to get your blacks as dark as possible, you can't have any light falling on the screen and if possible add a little back light.

If your room has any light hitting the screen, those blacks will get lighter.

What's odd is my Panasonic VT50 isn't as quite as sensitive to room lighting.
I agree. Even if you have no light on in the room, just the light from the tv reflecting back off the walls will affect the tv. The whiter the walls, the more light will reflect off of it and back onto the tv. Think of it like a flashlight. You turn one on in a totally dark room, and it brightens up the room considerably. Think of each plasma cell as a tiny little flashlight.
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post #7603 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 10:52 AM
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I think it's important to remember that Samsung released something like 20FW updates in 2013. they did as much as they could already.


the 'fixes' for any more issues seem to be hardware related, or very source dependent.


that being said, I don't think it's fair to say the tv has a lot of issues. I mean, nothing is ever perfect, but even most of the 'issues' are better than the competition.


to put things in perspective, the first lcd tv I bought(had nothing to do with being lcd, just happened to be one) would reset any changes I made to the settings when powered off. I was able to adjust most of these settings through a service menu, which retained all my adjustment except for sharpness for some reason. point is, there's a lot worse out there we could be complaining about. not that we should give up on finding improvements, I just think it's crazy to not buy a f8500 because of something it still does better than every other tv... haha
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post #7604 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 11:05 AM
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I just realized there is the Evolution Upgrade pack for the F8500....it has faster cpus...more ram...larger storage, etc

Wouldn't adding this reduce input lag? For $200 it wouldn't be a bad trade off to have if you could play video games in movie mode

Thoughts?
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post #7605 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
MJC will turn on, even though it says Off when you turn off Cinema Smooth. If you turn MJC on and then off again MJC will stay off (until you turn Cinema Smooth On and then off again). Cinema Smooth can only be used when the TV receives a 1080p24 signal. So in order to trigger the bug you have to send 1080p24 to the TV and turn off Cinema Smooth. My point was that if you're sending 1080p24 to the TV it makes no sense to turn off Cinema Smooth since turning off Cinema Smooth (with MJC really off) will cause 3:2 cadence judder. Avoiding 3:2 cadence judder is the whole point of sending 1080p24 (instead of 1080p60) to the TV in the first place.
I get what you're saying. I actually don't get why folks are saying its a bug then. It appears MJC is suppose to turn on with CS and then the user can disable it by choice and then it should ( according to you ) stay disengaged whenever a 24p/1080p signal is sent

But, why is it then that folks are having to consistently engage and disengage MJC without 24p/1080p content?

Thats what I don't get...

If there isn't an issue with MJC without 24/1080p content then I don't actually don't see this as a bug....i just don't get why those guys are having issues with MJC being on when its suppose to be off


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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I think it's important to remember that Samsung released something like 20FW updates in 2013. they did as much as they could already.


the 'fixes' for any more issues seem to be hardware related, or very source dependent.


that being said, I don't think it's fair to say the tv has a lot of issues. I mean, nothing is ever perfect, but even most of the 'issues' are better than the competition.


to put things in perspective, the first lcd tv I bought(had nothing to do with being lcd, just happened to be one) would reset any changes I made to the settings when powered off. I was able to adjust most of these settings through a service menu, which retained all my adjustment except for sharpness for some reason. point is, there's a lot worse out there we could be complaining about. not that we should give up on finding improvements, I just think it's crazy to not buy a f8500 because of something it still does better than every other tv... haha
Thing is I assumed the F8500 was essentially issue-free aside from light black levels with CS ( as was such with almost all samsung plasmas released due to driving method ) and since it was IR resistant it seemed like a no brainer for me since I'm a heavy gamer. I just worried to much about IR turning to burn in on my zt60.

Sorry if I sounded a bit over zealous with scooping out these issues...it was really news to me.

Im starting to think folks weren't making a big deal out the present issues b/c Samsung didn't claim this tv as their "claim to fame" device like Panasonic did with the ZT60

Small issue on the ZT60 was blown out of proportion cuz folks expected it to be flawless b/c of the price and status

This easily could've been Samsungs claim to shame if folks had the same expectation as the ZT60 for the F8500...especially with this MJC/input lag issue

I just don't get it though...its a quad core cpu. How is the input lag terrible...doesnt make sense!
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post #7606 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
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I get what you're saying. I actually don't get why folks are saying its a bug then. It appears MJC is suppose to turn on with CS and then the user can disable it by choice and then it should ( according to you ) stay disengaged whenever a 24p/1080p signal is sent

But, why is it then that folks are having to consistently engage and disengage MJC without 24p/1080p content?

Thats what I don't get...

If there isn't an issue with MJC without 24/1080p content then I don't actually don't see this as a bug....i just don't get why those guys are having issues with MJC being on when its suppose to be off




Thing is I assumed the F8500 was essentially issue-free aside from light black levels with CS ( as was such with almost all samsung plasmas released due to driving method ) and since it was IR resistant it seemed like a no brainer for me since I'm a heavy gamer. I just worried to much about IR turning to burn in on my zt60.

Sorry if I sounded a bit over zealous with scooping out these issues...it was really news to me.

Im starting to think folks weren't making a big deal out the present issues b/c Samsung didn't claim this tv as their "claim to fame" device like Panasonic did with the ZT60

Small issue on the ZT60 was blown out of proportion cuz folks expected it to be flawless b/c of the price and status

This easily could've been Samsungs claim to shame if folks had the same expectation as the ZT60 for the F8500...especially with this MJC/input lag issue

I just don't get it though...its a quad core cpu. How is the input lag terrible...doesnt make sense!

I'm going to chime in with my opinion again because I've owned both TV's (kept the ZT60 and returned 8500). I'm a pretty heavy gamer too and I've been putting in some long Destiny session on the ZT60, with no perceptible IR as of today. BUT, I screen wipe and mix some full screen movies after I have like a 4-5 hour session. I think pre-emptive measures are important with the ZT60.

As far as gaming is concerned, if you are a heavy gamer the Samsung may have less susceptibility to IR than the panny, but trust me when I say this, the input lag will leave you disappointed. Anything competitive or online and the Samsung will not be able to match the ZT60. Even with all the tricks.

I feel that there is a lot going on under Samsung's hood to make it deliver the superb picture that it does. I think that all that processing is what gives it the lag. This is one of the reasons why Pioneer Kuros are amazing for gaming; no noticeable input lag. And with the ZT60, it feels (with game mode on) as close to the pioneers as you can get plasma wise, imo of course.

It's like the difference between a 400hp engine with turbo chargers, vs. a naturally aspirated 400hp engine. The turbo'd one gets you the 400hp, but it does so at the cost of maybe some turbo lag or other inherent issues with turbocharged engines. Whereas the naturally aspirated 400hp engine is just pure brute power.
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post #7607 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 12:32 PM
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I get what you're saying. I actually don't get why folks are saying its a bug then. It appears MJC is suppose to turn on with CS and then the user can disable it by choice and then it should ( according to you ) stay disengaged whenever a 24p/1080p signal is sent

But, why is it then that folks are having to consistently engage and disengage MJC without 24p/1080p content?

Thats what I don't get...

If there isn't an issue with MJC without 24/1080p content then I don't actually don't see this as a bug....i just don't get why those guys are having issues with MJC being on when its suppose to be off




Thing is I assumed the F8500 was essentially issue-free aside from light black levels with CS ( as was such with almost all samsung plasmas released due to driving method ) and since it was IR resistant it seemed like a no brainer for me since I'm a heavy gamer. I just worried to much about IR turning to burn in on my zt60.

Sorry if I sounded a bit over zealous with scooping out these issues...it was really news to me.

Im starting to think folks weren't making a big deal out the present issues b/c Samsung didn't claim this tv as their "claim to fame" device like Panasonic did with the ZT60

Small issue on the ZT60 was blown out of proportion cuz folks expected it to be flawless b/c of the price and status

This easily could've been Samsungs claim to shame if folks had the same expectation as the ZT60 for the F8500...especially with this MJC/input lag issue

I just don't get it though...its a quad core cpu. How is the input lag terrible...doesnt make sense!
I guess my confusion is why any of these actually are issues?


the input lag on the f8500 is VERY comparable to the average flat panel. it's not competitive gamer quick by any means, but if you walk into a store and randomly point at a display, there's about a 50/50 chance as to whether it would have higher or lower lag than the f8500. there's about a 97% chance it will have worse picture quality though(even compared to f8500 in game mode).


the MJC stuff, I don't know what to say. I turned mine off in may of 2013, that was the last time I had to do anything with it. so what's the issue? there's a problem with a feature that should never have been put on a plasma to begin with? just turn it off like you should and forget it exists. most of the ppl that complain of the issue are trying to actually use the MJC with some content, for some reason I can't fathom...

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #7608 of 7609 Old Yesterday, 12:45 PM
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I'm going to chime in with my opinion again because I've owned both TV's (kept the ZT60 and returned 8500). I'm a pretty heavy gamer too and I've been putting in some long Destiny session on the ZT60, with no perceptible IR as of today. BUT, I screen wipe and mix some full screen movies after I have like a 4-5 hour session. I think pre-emptive measures are important with the ZT60.

As far as gaming is concerned, if you are a heavy gamer the Samsung may have less susceptibility to IR than the panny, but trust me when I say this, the input lag will leave you disappointed. Anything competitive or online and the Samsung will not be able to match the ZT60. Even with all the tricks.

I feel that there is a lot going on under Samsung's hood to make it deliver the superb picture that it does. I think that all that processing is what gives it the lag. This is one of the reasons why Pioneer Kuros are amazing for gaming; no noticeable input lag. And with the ZT60, it feels (with game mode on) as close to the pioneers as you can get plasma wise, imo of course.

It's like the difference between a 400hp engine with turbo chargers, vs. a naturally aspirated 400hp engine. The turbo'd one gets you the 400hp, but it does so at the cost of maybe some turbo lag or other inherent issues with turbocharged engines. Whereas the naturally aspirated 400hp engine is just pure brute power.
Completely agree. Preventative measures is what I do with the ZT60 and it does the job. But there was one occasion where I spotted some residual IR immediately after the content was gone. But it vanished just as quickly. Scared the crap out of it tbh. Hasn't happened since and I'm nearing 2000 hours of 70% video games 30% movies/cable tv.



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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I guess my confusion is why any of these actually are issues?


the input lag on the f8500 is VERY comparable to the average flat panel. it's not competitive gamer quick by any means, but if you walk into a store and randomly point at a display, there's about a 50/50 chance as to whether it would have higher or lower lag than the f8500. there's about a 97% chance it will have worse picture quality though(even compared to f8500 in game mode).


the MJC stuff, I don't know what to say. I turned mine off in may of 2013, that was the last time I had to do anything with it. so what's the issue? there's a problem with a feature that should never have been put on a plasma to begin with? just turn it off like you should and forget it exists. most of the ppl that complain of the issue are trying to actually use the MJC with some content, for some reason I can't fathom...
Ive read several users complaining about seeing a video-like image b/c MJC would still be on even though it be listed as off and they would have to manually engage and disengage it.

Last, what about the eve kits? You guys think it could lower input lag since it has faster cpus and more ram? Can someone chime in?
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Completely agree. Preventative measures is what I do with the ZT60 and it does the job. But there was one occasion where I spotted some residual IR immediately after the content was gone. But it vanished just as quickly. Scared the crap out of it tbh. Hasn't happened since and I'm nearing 2000 hours of 70% video games 30% movies/cable tv.





Ive read several users complaining about seeing a video-like image b/c MJC would still be on even though it be listed as off and they would have to manually engage and disengage it.

Last, what about the eve kits? You guys think it could lower input lag since it has faster cpus and more ram? Can someone chime in?
yeah, but the other 99% of us haven't had that happen. makes me wonder what the difference is? I'm pretty sure, that once you turn it off, the only way it'll come back on, is if you change a setting. I don't do that, I calibrate the display and leave it. and I'd never turn the MJC on anyway, but I know some ppl do for sports, or games, or 3d, or who knows what and why. it's most those ppl that have issues, because they are constantly changing the settings, and sometimes, there's a glitch.


we had a lot of hopes that the evo kits would help with input lag, but I haven't heard anybody that's actually tested this. it seems like the evo kit is mostly flash though. it's a new remote control, and new hardware for the apps. doesn't seem to have any appreciable affect on image quality. if it did help, it'd probably be flying off the shelves


I just feel the lag is 99% the processing being done. that processing HAS to be done for as long as that panel is being used. it would take a major upgrade in ALL the processing hardware to make a big difference. it's not like the CPU that came with the f8500 was super slow to begin with.


I have to say though, from what you're saying about the zt60, I don't really understand why you want to replace it. you're giving up KNOWN advantages because of the POSSIBILITY of a single disadvantage.


it's that saying, the grass isn't greener on the other side, it's greener where you water it... treat the zt60 with slightly more care in regards to IR and it'll be everything you want it to be.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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