Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 255 - AVS Forum
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post #7621 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 11:44 AM
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Well I did it. This was the longest update I've had with this TV. Almost all the previous ones were 1-2 minutes tops...this one took over 12 minutes total, with 5 min of that just to download (I have a 150meg connection and my TV is connected via ethernet port, not wireless).

I haven't noticed any differences yet but I'll calibrate it again this weekend and compare the results versus the last time it was calibrated.
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post #7622 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by sasmallen View Post
Anybody else notice a new firmware update available? My PN64F8500 currently shows that it's running firmware version 1120. Today I checked for a update and it shows version 1203 available to be downloaded. I didn't have time to do it right then, so I'll have to update later. I'm wondering if anybody else got the same option and if so, did they perform the update? Just wondering what's included.

Thanks.
I wonder why Samsung doesn't update this information for it's support/download site?

No update information has been published since firmware: ver.1119.1 was released on Feb 16, 2014.

Is there a list of fixes for v.1203?
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post #7623 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 01:42 PM
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Happy to report that once I turned off all of the processing gunk (except the image orbiter to prevent IR), the panel displays a lifelike picture.

The black levels don't compare to the Panasonic (I see the black bars, because they're not black), but otherwise it's a very nice panel.

My system? Google for: Martin Logan 420 CLX Descent Stage Summit
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post #7624 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post
BTW and FWIW, I routinely game on my F8500 for 2-3 hours daily. I have a PS4, PS3, and an Xbox 360 connected to it and I have never seen any IR after a session. I do nothing preventative, either...no scrolling bars, no pixel shift, no nothing. The only time I ever saw even a smidge of IR is after watching three plus hours of a letterboxed 3D Blu-ray (Avatar) in a completely dark room, and it literally went away within five seconds of switching to full screen content. There is no reason to baby the F8500. I went into this TV after coming off years of LED, and I treat the F8500 just like I did the LED TVs.
While I agree there isn't a need to baby the F8500 with regards to static images being displayed while gaming, it is still definitely prudent to advise heavy gamers to vary content between sessions.

I'm only chiming in because I personally, as a result of playing Dark Souls II earlier this year, have a case of very persistent IR on mine.

By all accounts the F8500 is quite resistant in this regard but that by no means equals impervious. If you game heavily, ie more than 2 hours at any one time, then be kind to your panel and watch/display some full screen HD content for at least an hour or so between sessions.
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post #7625 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post
I wonder why Samsung doesn't update this information for it's support/download site?

No update information has been published since firmware: ver.1119.1 was released on Feb 16, 2014.

Is there a list of fixes for v.1203?
it won't tell you anything anyway, that description of fixes hasn't been changed in the last 10 fw updates at least.

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post #7626 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by icelt View Post
While I agree there isn't a need to baby the F8500 with regards to static images being displayed while gaming, it is still definitely prudent to advise heavy gamers to vary content between sessions.

I'm only chiming in because I personally, as a result of playing Dark Souls II earlier this year, have a case of very persistent IR on mine.

By all accounts the F8500 is quite resistant in this regard but that by no means equals impervious. If you game heavily, ie more than 2 hours at any one time, then be kind to your panel and watch/display some full screen HD content for at least an hour or so between sessions.
even if you only game for 10mins at a time, it's a good idea to vary content. playing 40hrs consecutively in 10min intervals is the same as playing 40hrs straight. it's just really rare to see anybody rack up that kind of consecutive time if not doing a few long sessions.


I wonder sometimes how many owners actually make IR worse by not using their plasma for everything. like if they save it for movies, do they end up with worse IR in the letterbox areas because they are so afraid of watching tv with static logos. or do those static logos end up causing IR because they won't game on the plasma... seems to me the key to plasma bliss is variety. do everything you can with it, as much as you can!

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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post #7627 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sasmallen View Post
Anybody else notice a new firmware update available? My PN64F8500 currently shows that it's running firmware version 1120. Today I checked for a update and it shows version 1203 available to be downloaded. I didn't have time to do it right then, so I'll have to update later. I'm wondering if anybody else got the same option and if so, did they perform the update? Just wondering what's included.

Thanks.
Someone has to check if input lag on all modes has been reduced!
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post #7628 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
even if you only game for 10mins at a time, it's a good idea to vary content. playing 40hrs consecutively in 10min intervals is the same as playing 40hrs straight. it's just really rare to see anybody rack up that kind of consecutive time if not doing a few long sessions.


I wonder sometimes how many owners actually make IR worse by not using their plasma for everything. like if they save it for movies, do they end up with worse IR in the letterbox areas because they are so afraid of watching tv with static logos. or do those static logos end up causing IR because they won't game on the plasma... seems to me the key to plasma bliss is variety. do everything you can with it, as much as you can!
Here here to that, variety is the spice of life!

So variety, the protector of plasma? There's a catchy phrase in there somewhere. Hmmmm.... Variety, the plasmatic pixel protector?! Better stop while I'm ahead.
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post #7629 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
yeah, but the other 99% of us haven't had that happen. makes me wonder what the difference is? I'm pretty sure, that once you turn it off, the only way it'll come back on, is if you change a setting. I don't do that, I calibrate the display and leave it. and I'd never turn the MJC on anyway, but I know some ppl do for sports, or games, or 3d, or who knows what and why. it's most those ppl that have issues, because they are constantly changing the settings, and sometimes, there's a glitch.


we had a lot of hopes that the evo kits would help with input lag, but I haven't heard anybody that's actually tested this. it seems like the evo kit is mostly flash though. it's a new remote control, and new hardware for the apps. doesn't seem to have any appreciable affect on image quality. if it did help, it'd probably be flying off the shelves


I just feel the lag is 99% the processing being done. that processing HAS to be done for as long as that panel is being used. it would take a major upgrade in ALL the processing hardware to make a big difference. it's not like the CPU that came with the f8500 was super slow to begin with.


I have to say though, from what you're saying about the zt60, I don't really understand why you want to replace it. you're giving up KNOWN advantages because of the POSSIBILITY of a single disadvantage.


it's that saying, the grass isn't greener on the other side, it's greener where you water it... treat the zt60 with slightly more care in regards to IR and it'll be everything you want it to be.
Naw, it isn't like that. Its not one feature I'm after or something. The F8500 is still a solid display, better than the VT50 I think and the VT50 was a reference product by hdtvtest.co.uk standards.

If it wasn't for internet reviews of the ZT60 I would've gone for the F8500....but the reviews of the ZT60 kept stating OLED-like blacks which is far from the truth. It may be the deepest blacks ever on a plasma but no plasma will ever become close to the OLEDs....not even tweaked kuros.

Now I know what the best can do Ill be even more content with the F8500 picture quality. Everything is still reference...color accuracy, motion rez, off angle viewing, even the louvre filter is top of the line ( just as good as the ZT60 )

To boot, I'm saving almost $1400 bucks going with the F8500. Cant beat that!

Id still be pissed if I able to spot floating blacks. Ohhh man that would annoy the crap out of me lollll

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Originally Posted by pitchman View Post
BTW and FWIW, I routinely game on my F8500 for 2-3 hours daily. I have a PS4, PS3, and an Xbox 360 connected to it and I have never seen any IR after a session. I do nothing preventative, either...no scrolling bars, no pixel shift, no nothing. The only time I ever saw even a smidge of IR is after watching three plus hours of a letterboxed 3D Blu-ray (Avatar) in a completely dark room, and it literally went away within five seconds of switching to full screen content. There is no reason to baby the F8500. I went into this TV after coming off years of LED, and I treat the F8500 just like I did the LED TVs.
IR is the nature of the beast. Plasmas will always be susceptible to IR in different amounts of retention. Some more aggressive than others and possible in extremely minute ways. But whatever. Its all good. As long as it doesn't remain visible after attempts to rid it I'm cool. Its just one story of an owner of the ZT60 who got burn in that scared me....hahah


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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
generally the experts go back to black levels. kuro > zt60 > f8500
but the 'general enthusiasts' have often picked the f8500 over them because of it's brightness and ambient light performance.

they all seem pretty darn close to perfect when it comes to color, gamma, and apparently motion(I say apparently because I think they all look 'bad' when stuff starts to move, but it's likely a source issue).

many of the owners chose the panny or Samsung for other features. larger screen size, 3d, smart features, etc. the kuro is still a very capable display by all reports. it's just that it's an old display, and stuck with old specs/features. the zt60/f8500 update the features while remaining close to the kuro's picture quality

to put things in perspective, you're talking about which athlete is going to win gold, silver, and bronze in the Olympics. no matter what they are darn impressive!
the tweaked kuros were really deep but not OLED deep. Far from it. and regular non tweaked sets will be on the ZT60s tail.

But whats the point? If isn't OLED black having any sort of luminance glow is such a tease....

Quote:
Originally Posted by icelt View Post
While I agree there isn't a need to baby the F8500 with regards to static images being displayed while gaming, it is still definitely prudent to advise heavy gamers to vary content between sessions.

I'm only chiming in because I personally, as a result of playing Dark Souls II earlier this year, have a case of very persistent IR on mine.

By all accounts the F8500 is quite resistant in this regard but that by no means equals impervious. If you game heavily, ie more than 2 hours at any one time, then be kind to your panel and watch/display some full screen HD content for at least an hour or so between sessions.
Panel variance.

Some ZT60 owners get IR that last a bit longer than other displays. My IR goes away fairly quickly. I even tortured it and the IR still went away. One owner I think got burn in...that scared me. But I still think its panel variance.

Most F8500s will be IR resistant and maybe a handful will be more prone to it.

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post #7630 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 08:37 PM
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Just got my 60f8500 yesterday. I wanted a bigger TV for the bedroom and man cave so I brought my 50st60 to the bedroom. I got the Sammy for my cave. I wanted it before there wasn't anymore plasma TVs. I been running TV as much as possible since I have a isf calibration scheduled for 2 weeks out. Any tricks I should know about this TV?
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post #7631 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post
If it wasn't for internet reviews of the ZT60 I would've gone for the F8500....but the reviews of the ZT60 kept stating OLED-like blacks which is far from the truth. It may be the deepest blacks ever on a plasma but no plasma will ever become close to the OLEDs....not even tweaked kuros.
What specifically makes the Organic LED technology so much better than regular LED ? What has allowed it to escape the confines of LED limits ?

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Ill be even more content with the F8500 picture quality. Everything is still reference...color accuracy, motion rez, off angle viewing, even the louvre filter is top of the line ( just as good as the ZT60 )
I think as important as 'deep blacks' is that when you compare a 2013 technology 8500 to older models going back 2-4 years, even if the blacks back then are equal to or superior to today's models....you are dealing with less-powerful CPUs and other processing power. It could be marginal or it could be major. Depends on how far back the model years you compare.

So they may equal or even beat (marginally) today's best but the REST of the picture, processing, color accuracy, response time, etc. may be a bit behind.

Depends on how long between model years you are.

Quote:
Its just one story of an owner of the ZT60 who got burn in that scared me.
Do you recall what happened ?

Quote:
the tweaked kuros were really deep but not OLED deep. Far from it. and regular non tweaked sets will be on the ZT60s tail.
ZT's were made through 2013, but when was the last Kuros ? 2012 ?
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post #7632 of 7632 Old Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
What specifically makes the Organic LED technology so much better than regular LED ? What has allowed it to escape the confines of LED limits ?
it's hard to be specific because oled has nothing to do with lcd. remember led is not a display technology, it's a backlight technology. well there is led displays, but they aren't the TV's you're talking about, they are large signage for businesses...


anyway, to the heart of the matter, oled has 'escaped the confines' by not using an lcd panel in any way shape or form. it's emission technology, like plasma, were each pixel can be individually turned on/off.


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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
I think as important as 'deep blacks' is that when you compare a 2013 technology 8500 to older models going back 2-4 years, even if the blacks back then are equal to or superior to today's models....you are dealing with less-powerful CPUs and other processing power. It could be marginal or it could be major. Depends on how far back the model years you compare.
and yet what we see is an huge increase in input lag, that is related to the amount of processing being done. it's strange, but it seems like todays displays NEED more powerful CPU's just to keep up with the old stuff. it's like a design decision, it's probably cheaper to toss in a quad-core CPU and process the crap out of the image than it is to put a super high quality panel in the tv. this might be the difference between a bose speaker system that's heavily processed to make up for the fact the physical speakers are junk, compared to a truly high end speaker that simply allows the source material to come through naturally.

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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
So they may equal or even beat (marginally) today's best but the REST of the picture, processing, color accuracy, response time, etc. may be a bit behind.
I truly believe this is a statement that while correct in what you're referring to, is not addressing the most significant factors. if you look at the bottom end models, this is almost definitely true. mid-range, probably pretty close as well. but the high end models have been largely controlled by the market and the global economy, not the technology or engineers ability. the high end stuff took a dive when the market 'crashed', and has only recently come back because what used to cost 6grand to make, now can be sold for under 3. anyway, my point is the quality of the display is largely independent of the year it was made. the kuros obviously had no issue with processing, color accuracy, response time, or anything else really. you really need to judge the TV's on a model by model basis. there's definitely some 2009 TV's that are better than 2014 TV's, and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by PhilipsPhanatic View Post
Depends on how long between model years you are.
zt60 and f8500 are technically both 2013's. so doesn't really apply in this particular case.



Quote:
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ZT's were made through 2013, but when was the last Kuros ? 2012 ?
I think 2009 or 2010. it was a while ago though, I've been looking at TV's since about 2011 and didn't find anything I liked until last year(I was actually planning on grabbing a clearance vt50, so I guess 2yrs ago I liked it)

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