Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 367 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-06-2015, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
I absolutely get DD 5.1 from my TV over the ARC with my FiOS DVR on HDMI 1. Its some sort of magic with setting the STB to "passthrough".
Sorry for crummy pic. The digital audio out actually affects the ARC. If I set it to PCM, I get 2ch PCM. If I set to to DD, I get DD5.1 or DD2.0 depending on what teh broadcast is.
I neither have a source connected directly to the TV, nor an AV receiver that supports ARC like you, so I can't replicate your setup.

I tried Netflix via my Tivo which supports 1080p/24 (with DD+ audio) pass-through and content encoded as such, but it still did not enable a DD option for audio out. My receiver supports DD+ which according to Dolby makes use of the pass-through feature but no dice.

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That configuration should work because DHCP is preserved on the HDMI line until it hits the AVR. You won't get DD 5.1 out the optical though, that would require stripping the DHCP prior to the AVR (if that's the first in line) or the TV.
Can you explain further? Are you saying that when the signal reaches an AVR the HDCP is stripped off? If so, why would this only affect audio? How would the TV enforce HDCP?
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:01 PM
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Can you explain further? Are you saying that when the signal reaches an AVR the HDCP is stripped off? If so, why would this only affect audio? How would the TV enforce HDCP?
No, you're right. You could strip it prior to or after the AVR it wouldn't matter but that's an unlikely set-up anyway. My point was that if you can't first route through an AVR for some reason and don't have ARC, then your only option is to defeat DHCP and use the TV's optical out. I have tested this configuration successfully.
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Old 02-06-2015, 01:27 PM
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I neither have a source connected directly to the TV, nor an AV receiver that supports ARC like you, so I can't replicate your setup.

I tried Netflix via my Tivo which supports 1080p/24 (with DD+ audio) pass-through and content encoded as such, but it still did not enable a DD option for audio out. My receiver supports DD+ which according to Dolby makes use of the pass-through feature but no dice.



Can you explain further? Are you saying that when the signal reaches an AVR the HDCP is stripped off? If so, why would this only affect audio? How would the TV enforce HDCP?
Whats is your receiver model??
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:03 PM
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Whats is your receiver model??
Yamaha RX-Z7.
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
No, you're right. You could strip it prior to or after the AVR it wouldn't matter but that's an unlikely set-up anyway. My point was that if you can't first route through an AVR for some reason and don't have ARC, then your only option is to defeat DHCP and use the TV's optical out. I have tested this configuration successfully.
Are you saying that prior to the TV you defeat DHCP and then run audio/video over HDMI to the TV and get DD 5.1 from the optical out? How?

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Old 02-06-2015, 02:35 PM
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Yamaha RX-Z7.
Ok, you have a Tivo that has Netflix and a receiver that supports DD+. It should work. you should be able to plug the Tivo into the Yamaha and get DD+ sound and send the video to the TV. That being said, there have been LOTS OF PROBLEMS with Netflix DD+ with many different vendors. Can you try Amazon Prime or VUDU?

Can you set the Tivo to output multichannel PCM?
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Old 02-06-2015, 02:42 PM
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Are you saying that prior to the TV you defeat DHCP and then run audio/video over HDMI to the TV and get DD 5.1 from the optical out? How?
This did the trick.
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Old 02-06-2015, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
Ok, you have a Tivo that has Netflix and a receiver that supports DD+. It should work. you should be able to plug the Tivo into the Yamaha and get DD+ sound and send the video to the TV. That being said, there have been LOTS OF PROBLEMS with Netflix DD+ with many different vendors. Can you try Amazon Prime or VUDU?

Can you set the Tivo to output multichannel PCM?
I don't have any problem playing any multi-channel audio format through the AVR so long as I don't forward the digital audio signal onto the TV. If I enable the audio signal to be passed on, then I guess an HDMI handshake occurs which forces the AVR into 2.0 mode. This behavior occurs regardless of source.

The Tivo (Roamio) does not have an option for multi-channel PCM output even though it supports HDMI.

As an aside, I did try testing an HDMI multi-channel PCM source using my blu-ray player and the behavior is exactly the same. With the audio set the terminate in the AVR I got PCM listed as the input and indicators showing 5.1 channels. With the digital audio set to be passed onto the TV, the AVR reverts to PL II and I only get the L&R indicators light up. You can also clearly hear the difference.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by PaulF View Post
I don't have any problem playing any multi-channel audio format through the AVR so long as I don't forward the digital audio signal onto the TV. If I enable the audio signal to be passed on, then I guess an HDMI handshake occurs which forces the AVR into 2.0 mode. This behavior occurs regardless of source.

The Tivo (Roamio) does not have an option for multi-channel PCM output even though it supports HDMI.

As an aside, I did try testing an HDMI multi-channel PCM source using my blu-ray player and the behavior is exactly the same. With the audio set the terminate in the AVR I got PCM listed as the input and indicators showing 5.1 channels. With the digital audio set to be passed onto the TV, the AVR reverts to PL II and I only get the L&R indicators light up. You can also clearly hear the difference.
Maybe i'm missing what you are trying to do. You want to have 5.1 support using netflix right? That means sound from your 5.1 speakers connected to the AVR. Why do you (or do you) want to forward sound to the TV? HDMI to the AVR, sound from the AVR and video (only) to the TV.
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Old 02-06-2015, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
Maybe i'm missing what you are trying to do. You want to have 5.1 support using netflix right? That means sound from your 5.1 speakers connected to the AVR. Why do you (or do you) want to forward sound to the TV? HDMI to the AVR, sound from the AVR and video (only) to the TV.
Absolutely, we're agreed. All works well for me. The only usage case that causes a problem is when I try to use Samsung's Smart View app on my phone. The only way to get sound is to first forward the digital audio signal to the TV, but that's a minor problem.

I chimed in because some suggested that they were able to get DD 5.1 audio on the TV's HDMI input passed-through over Toslink or ARC for output. However, all my testing suggests that any audio source connected to the TV over HDMI is forced to down-convert to 2.0.

Your configuration is different and I can't test that. Well I could connect a source directly to my TV but would not be able to confirm if ARC is outputting all 5.1 channels. Perhaps the mysterious pass-through setting on your STB is the basis for why it works for you.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:24 PM
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I can guarantee you it is. PCM is a format, it can be either 2 channel (ie. Linear) or multichannel (ie. bitstream). If your source is capable of outputting or down-sampling multichannel audio into raw format (ie. multichannel PCM) that's exactly what the receiver will receive from the TV. I'm not arguing that optical is better, frankly I'm tired of arguing this at all given that I can't imagine why you'd ever want to any TV as your primary source input if you've invested in a modern AVR, but it most definitely is possible in most cases for those who either don't have ARC as an available option or you want to use optical instead.
The reason for people wanting to output audio directly from the TV is for the SMART apps such as Netflix or any other app that streams video. The SMART apps only output audio from the TV's speakers or the TOSlink cable. Not everybody has or wants to invest in a Roku, Playstation, Xbox or AppleTV device to use the streaming apps.
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Old 02-06-2015, 05:51 PM
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The reason for people wanting to output audio directly from the TV is for the SMART apps such as Netflix or any other app that streams video. The SMART apps only output audio from the TV's speakers or the TOSlink cable. Not everybody has or wants to invest in a Roku, Playstation, Xbox or AppleTV device to use the streaming apps.
quick point of order.... the TV smart apps also output over HDMI via ARC if the receiver supports it.
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Old 02-06-2015, 06:43 PM
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quick point of order.... the TV smart apps also output over HDMI via ARC if the receiver supports it.
Unfortunately my new audio system doesn't support ARC, but that's good to know.
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Old 02-06-2015, 07:10 PM
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quick point of order.... the TV smart apps also output over HDMI via ARC if the receiver supports it.
I do have a concern though. I've heard and read some conflicting messages about ARC. Even though the audio system supports it and even though the TV supports it I've understood that not all TV's that support ARC will output DD 5.1. through HDMI. Thoughts?
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Old 02-06-2015, 08:41 PM
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My 64F8500 is back in business after a power supply and board replacement. $350 is much less than I anticipated, so I'm happy. Now to get Chase Freedom to reimburse me 😊.

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Old 02-06-2015, 09:05 PM
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I do have a concern though. I've heard and read some conflicting messages about ARC. Even though the audio system supports it and even though the TV supports it I've understood that not all TV's that support ARC will output DD 5.1. through HDMI. Thoughts?

I expect that's true... further I expect it depends on the source of the signal too....Many TVs likewise won't output 5.1 over optical with most external sources.


For the Samsung F8500 this thread is about I believe it works as follows-

The audio from the TV's tuner, smart tv apps, network connection, and USB port can pass as Dolby Digital or 2ch PCM- so you'll get lossy compressed 5.1 if the source provides it, or stereo if that's what the source content provides.

HDMI and analog connected devices (ie external devices going INTO the tv with an audio/video signal) will be output over ARC as 2ch PCM only... so no 5.1 there.




So as with most things you're best off never running sound "through" the TV if possible- go direct from source to receiver via HDMI so you can get HD audio and 7.1 (if the source provides it)... but if you have to (for smart tv apps for example) then ARC is the best option as it requires no extra cables and will give you DD5.1 if the source content is providing it.


As far as I know, I don't think anybody streams DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHD at all via smarttv apps anyway... at worst you're missing out on Dolby Digital Plus over ARC compared to "non-TV sourced" HDMI.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:50 PM
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Another way to get around the toslink limitation on the F8500 is to get a toslink hub that gets around this issue. Just hook all your devices via toslink to the hub, and then one toslink cable from the hub to your AVR. You will then have 5.1. This device will do the trick.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Audio-T...C+VHD-SM4X4%29
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:52 AM
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My 64F8500 is back in business after a power supply and board replacement. $350 is much less than I anticipated, so I'm happy. Now to get Chase Freedom to reimburse me 😊.
Good news, mine is still in diagnosis mode. I sure miss it.
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Old 02-07-2015, 10:26 AM
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The tech came by yesterday and said the buzz is normal. I figured that's what he was going to say. On the bright side, he's ordering another stand for me since the original has a gap.

Edit: he also said he has these buzzing complaints every week. They used to replace panels but I guess Samsung told them to stop since it wasn't fixing anything. He also said people seemed to have good luck mounting the TV.

I told him I was thinking of returning it and he said I would be crazy to return it especially at the price I paid.

At this point, I'm going to keep it. Reading the LCD threads, it seems they come with their own set of issues and I will never match this set's PQ.

Last edited by encendido5; 02-07-2015 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:42 AM
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Absolutely, we're agreed. All works well for me. The only usage case that causes a problem is when I try to use Samsung's Smart View app on my phone. The only way to get sound is to first forward the digital audio signal to the TV, but that's a minor problem.

I chimed in because some suggested that they were able to get DD 5.1 audio on the TV's HDMI input passed-through over Toslink or ARC for output. However, all my testing suggests that any audio source connected to the TV over HDMI is forced to down-convert to 2.0.

Your configuration is different and I can't test that. Well I could connect a source directly to my TV but would not be able to confirm if ARC is outputting all 5.1 channels. Perhaps the mysterious pass-through setting on your STB is the basis for why it works for you.
I did some more playing around with my setup this morning. The FiOS Motorola 7232 hidden setting for passthrough audio is a magic setting. If I turn that off, I no longer get Dolby 5.1 audio. I get PCM 2.0. Dolby is greyed out in the TV menu. When set to passthrough, the option is available and I get DD5.1. Here is the kicker. I get DD5.1 from the ARC or the Toslink! That confirms what I have thought about ARC. Its basically "toslink over HDMI" Has the same limitations/features. Just over a different physical connection.
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Old 02-08-2015, 05:50 AM
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Well yes, the latest update gives me DD out on optical now.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:01 AM
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Well yes, the latest update gives me DD out on optical now.
If you are referring to my post above, it is not the Netflix DD+ fix I'm posting about. It is the ability to have an HDMI input on the TV with DD and pass it back out the ARC or toslink port. In theory you can not do that. It is normally converted to PCM 2.0. Internal OTA or smart apps do not have this limitation.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:03 AM
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If you are referring to my post above, it is not the Netflix DD+ fix I'm posting about. It is the ability to have an HDMI input on the TV with DD and pass it back out the ARC or toslink port. In theory you can not do that. It is normally converted to PCM 2.0. Internal OTA or smart apps do not have this limitation.
NO, just stating that DD out on optical on netflix does work with the latest update. The whole hdmi thing is a mess all across all platforms. Its a big fail imo.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:13 AM
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NO, just stating that DD out on optical on netflix does work with the latest update. The whole hdmi thing is a mess all across all platforms. Its a big fail imo.
It is complicated for certain. Netflix with their implementation of DD+ broke just about every piece of audio gear out there in some fashion. I'm OK with HDMI in general. It all depends on what you are tying to do. Using things like CEC, ARC, HDMI switched through a TV etc all have various nuances.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
I did some more playing around with my setup this morning. The FiOS Motorola 7232 hidden setting for passthrough audio is a magic setting. If I turn that off, I no longer get Dolby 5.1 audio. I get PCM 2.0. Dolby is greyed out in the TV menu. When set to passthrough, the option is available and I get DD5.1. Here is the kicker. I get DD5.1 from the ARC or the Toslink! That confirms what I have thought about ARC. Its basically "toslink over HDMI" Has the same limitations/features. Just over a different physical connection.
I pulled up the Fios equipment manual for the VMS1100 yesterday and noticed that it has two pass-through settings. One for 1080p/24 video pass-through, the other for audio pass-through. Your Motorola box must be the same. Tivo supports the former but not the latter.

My guess is the pass-through setting locks the audio output to whatever the source signal provides and in the case of multi-channel does not allow the TV to negotiate a down-conversion.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by sjm817 View Post
I did some more playing around with my setup this morning. The FiOS Motorola 7232 hidden setting for passthrough audio is a magic setting. If I turn that off, I no longer get Dolby 5.1 audio. I get PCM 2.0. Dolby is greyed out in the TV menu. When set to passthrough, the option is available and I get DD5.1. Here is the kicker. I get DD5.1 from the ARC or the Toslink! That confirms what I have thought about ARC. Its basically "toslink over HDMI" Has the same limitations/features. Just over a different physical connection.
Wow! I also have a QIP7232 DVR, and didn't know about the audio passthrough setting. I knew about the "Native" video passthrough in the secret menu. Thanks for sharing this info. I was always saying on this forum that DD5.1 optical out from an hdmi source was not possible due to HDCP, but I won't be saying that anymore.
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Old 02-08-2015, 07:26 AM
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Wow! I also have a QIP7232 DVR, and didn't know about the audio passthrough setting. I knew about the "Native" video passthrough in the secret menu. Thanks for sharing this info. I was always saying on this forum that DD5.1 optical out from an hdmi source was not possible due to HDCP, but I won't be saying that anymore.
I would say its still generally true but with an * that it is possible under special circumstances.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:18 AM
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I did a little more testing.

Tivo Netflix (via HDMI) -- audio output is Dolby Digital Plus. No option to output DD from TV. No audio signal being sent to the TV anyway. Forwarding audio forces down-conversion to 2.0.

F8500 Netflix (via Toslink) -- audio output is Dolby Digital (not Plus). DD output option is enabled.

Audio output is always from my receiver.

BTW, full 5.1 DD audio output was fixed on my TV with the Netflix app update with a UI build date of Feb 3, 2015. This was before I updated the F8500 FW to 1206. Still don't know what that update fixed.
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:35 AM
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I did a little more testing.

Tivo Netflix (via HDMI) -- audio output is Dolby Digital Plus. No option to output DD from TV. No audio signal being sent to the TV anyway. Forwarding audio forces down-conversion to 2.0.

F8500 Netflix (via Toslink) -- audio output is Dolby Digital (not Plus). DD output option is enabled.

Audio output is always from my receiver.

BTW, full 5.1 DD audio output was fixed on my TV with the Netflix app update with a UI build date of Feb 3, 2015. This was before I updated the F8500 FW to 1206. Still don't know what that update fixed.
Glad to know this, thanks for clarifying this. How did you get an F8500 with a February 2015 build date when it was discontinued in the end of November 2014?
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Old 02-08-2015, 09:57 AM
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I have had my TV for about a year. The date code I refer to is only for the Netflix app. The apps can be updated manually or automatically. App updates are also independent of which firmware the TV is running.
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