Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 400 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 05-16-2015, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by dustinj View Post
Im a pn64f8500 owner also and i want the best picture i can for gaming on my ps4 and pc. so i think this is the right place i think if someone wants this info they should find it here don't you. we all love this set and that makes all on the same team.
Ive asked the mods to remove the excessive attachments, good luck to you.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:02 PM
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When you removed the filter, was there any sticky residue left on the glass?

yes very mild residue i use glass cleaner and a shamwow and it all came off no streaks or anything


Can you still notice a louvre effect - i.e. does the screen darken when you view it from above at a 45 degree angle or greater? I'm curious if that is built into the filter or the panel structure.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:17 PM
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its a lot less but its still there. but the real reason i did it was for the DSE. but it does make the picture sharper and that was a cool bonus.
Thanks, hopefully you won't try and remove the louvre now.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:24 PM
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I'm new to this I'm not sure how many pictures i can have in one attachment. no hate we are all friends
Though some may question what you did I don't see anything wrong with any of your posts or your attachments and it's entirely appropriate for this thread.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:35 PM
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I agree, there's no reason to remove those images.
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Old 05-16-2015, 04:48 PM
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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)

Blacks must be suffering. I am amazed at those pics though. Wow. I would have really recommended a pro calibration with the filter on so you'd see what it can do factory fit. I can assure you that you'd see better PQ than you can now.

Last edited by dingleberryinc; 05-16-2015 at 04:51 PM.
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Old 05-16-2015, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dingleberryinc View Post
Blacks must be suffering. I am amazed at those pics though. Wow. I would have really recommended a pro calibration with the filter on so you'd see what it can do factory fit. I can assure you that you'd see better PQ than you can now.
Black levels will only suffer if there's light shinning on the panel. The purpose of the filter is to maintain black levels in a room with ambient light. Dustin can still get his television professionally calibrated (I don't even know if he has or not). If you never watch your TV with ambient light then you're better off without the filter. However, for most of us that's not the case and the filter is a definite net plus but it is by no means the only PQ enhancement that separates a high end plasma from a low end plasma.

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Old 05-16-2015, 09:27 PM
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Dustin, i'm curious about what you've done. first off, more info is always a good thing, so even though i feel (at this point anyway) what you've done would be a terrible idea for me, nobody should be offended that you did it. i mean guys routinely 'break' things just to see how they work, and everybody else benefits from their experimentation. so, with that out of the way...

aside from reducing DSE, what effect did it have? you mentioned it reduced but did not eliminate the 'louvered effect', feel like snapping some shots to show that? did it affect luminance? did it effect MLL? does the screen start to look greyish in ambient light now? have reflections gotten worse?

i'm curious, because i assumed the filter was the 'louver' thing, and the reason the tv looks so amazing in ALL lighting conditions. but it sounds like that's not the case.

in either event, i find my f8500 to be one of the clearest, brightest displays i've ever seen and if anything, i'd probably want to add more filter to lower MLL, haha. but like i said to begin with, info is always good. and i'm a curious fella, haha

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Old 05-16-2015, 10:33 PM
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Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
Black levels will only suffer if there's light shinning on the panel. The purpose of the filter is to maintain black levels in a room with ambient light. Dustin can still get his television professionally calibrated (I don't even know if he has or not). If you never watch your TV with ambient light then you're better off without the filter. However, for most of us that's not the case and the filter is a definite net plus but it is by no means the only PQ enhancement that separates a high end plasma from a low end plasma.

Any sheet of plastic covering the screen blocks some amount of light getting through it. Even clear plastic would be measurable. A single sheet of modern glass for a window blocks about 5%.

I can understand the op stating the screen is brighter but it will be at the expense of blacks.

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Old 05-16-2015, 10:45 PM
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A general question for the f8500 owners out there.

Seeing the path technology is taking with 2160p becoming dominant and 1080p development tapering off and OLED improving itself as well as HDR capabilities and wider color gamut - Would you buy an f8500 NOW if it was offered at a pretty decent price knowing what you know about this TV?
I am quite happy with my 51 and a 60 F8500.
I would also rather watch my 2010 Samsung C7000 plasma more than any LCD made today.
Recently I saw a Panasonic 2011 VT30 and the picture was almost as good as the F8500.

So if I didn't have a good plasma already and money was any issue, I would get an older Panasonic,
like the ST60 or VT30-60.
Panasonic's are much more reliable than Samsung plasmas.

In the last 2 months I have bought and returned the LG 55 OLED 1080p and the Samsung HU 8550 4k.
IMHO 4k is at least 5 years away, and the current 4ks make 1080 look worse.
The LG OLED is still a work in progress and the F8500 is much better.

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Old 05-16-2015, 10:51 PM
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so i hade 4 64f8500 send back three because on DSE. my last one still has it so I'm like well its not so bad i will just keep this one. so i have had it it for 8 or 9 months. but i always wished that the AR filter would be better because thats what make the DSE so bad. so i did something tonight that was crazy. I REMOVED THE AR FILTER AND THE SCREEN LOOKS FREAKING AMAZING. I have been looking online how to do it but everything i read said not too. Im in a black out room so reflections are not a problem. so i just did it. It is so easy and the screen is clearer and brighter. some sites said it would mess with my color but i can tell you it makes everything clean and bright and the colors still look great. I don't know why i waited so long. all it took was a really sharp knife and thats it. just take the knife and edge all the way around the glass as close to bezel as you can after you edge the hole thing use the knife too lift the filter in the corner and start pulling slow. make sure the tv has been on for 3-4 hours if not more so the AR filter is warm. after you pull all of it off clean the tv with cleaner. its just bare glass so you can't really hurt it. its late this took me one hour. i will post pics. i play ps4 and it always sucked having DSE but not no more.
I certainly don't know what you're talking about. You must've been very unlucky. My F8500 has zero DSE. I watch the Golf channel every weekend and I'm amazed how bright the whites are, especially when comparing it to my Panasonic Plasma that has DSE. To each his own but you never know when the filter might come in handy. Not a recommended action. I will never degrade my TV like you just did. This TV cost a small fortune and what you did is not even reversible. Not sure why you bothered to give any instructions on how to remove the filter. I'd bet my life savings hardly anyone here will do that. Like I said, to each his own but you severely downgraded your F8500 by doing that.
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Old 05-16-2015, 11:06 PM
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DSE on plasma is also related to how aggressive ABL is on that tv. I know with my old Pioneer 5020, DSE was pretty bad. However, there was a way to fix it on the Pioneer. Getting into SM, one quickly found out that ABL was set low (too aggressive). On mine it was at a value of 105. You could crank it up to 255. Of course doing that would create a lot of heat and buzz. Before I sold it, I had the value set at 170, and DSE was completely gone. It actually became as bright as my F8500, which is plenty bright and I have virtually no DSE on my F8500.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:08 AM
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Has anyone put up one of the new OLEDs next to their F8500 and compared reflections?

That would be an interesting comparisons especially for those of use who have windows to contend with.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:03 AM
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That's the secret of most any tech support agency; they get rated and raises based on the number of tickets closed, not the number of problems solved nor the number of customers satisfied.
I was pretty sure that was the case. My bullpoop detector is well calibrated.
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:47 AM
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Has anyone put up one of the new OLEDs next to their F8500 and compared reflections?

That would be an interesting comparisons especially for those of use who have windows to contend with.
While I haven't personally done this, may I ask why is this important? Unless you just purchased an F8500 and are contemplating taking it back for an OLED I really don't see how this information will help. Since the F8500 is nearly nothing but impossible to find your only real choice is to get an OLED if you want Plasma-like PQ.
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Old 05-17-2015, 01:10 PM
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i can only speak for myself, but i would be interested in that information because the f8500 is my point of reference now. ie, if the oled looks about the same, i know it'll be great, if it looks even better, i won't even care that plasma is dead anymore... etc

whenever i buy something, i like to compare it to what i have already. i know, in detail, what i like, hate, and don't really care about with my current product, so it's a good way to determine if it's a worthy upgrade or not.

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Old 05-17-2015, 03:06 PM
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While I haven't personally done this, may I ask why is this important? Unless you just purchased an F8500 and are contemplating taking it back for an OLED I really don't see how this information will help. Since the F8500 is nearly nothing but impossible to find your only real choice is to get an OLED if you want Plasma-like PQ.
Actually a large number of Best Buys currently have open box (actually demo) 64F8500s available for pretty good discounts, and I've seen a handful of 51F8500s too (see the Plasma Great Deals Found forum for sample pricing.)

Though most have around 8000 hours of use on the panel, they all come with full factory warranties and, from what I have been able to find, no directional sizzle.
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Old 05-17-2015, 03:41 PM
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Has anyone noticed any false contouring (Banding) on there sets? I see it every now and then. Space scenes are bad. But Friday night I was watching American Sniper, and the scene of the sand storm was so bad I almost turned the movie off. I have read this has to do with the bit color. I was streaming 1080P from Kodi to watch that movie, but I have had the same trouble with my Blue Ray players. I have Hi-speed HDMI going to my AV-7702, then a 15' Hi-Speed HDMI to the TV. Could it be my HDMI cable?
I also had this same problem on the previous Samsung plasma, which was a PN58F850. So I dont know if this is just a plasma issue or if there is a setting somewhere I am missing. But it looks like crap when it happens. Which is only on low light scenes.


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Old 05-17-2015, 03:51 PM
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Actually a large number of Best Buys currently have open box (actually demo) 64F8500s available for pretty good discounts, and I've seen a handful of 51F8500s too (see the Plasma Great Deals Found forum for sample pricing.)

Though most have around 8000 hours of use on the panel, they all come with full factory warranties and, from what I have been able to find, no directional sizzle.
Understandable. I was referring to new in the box however none of the BB's in my town have any F8500 demos. I'd be concerned still about buying a floor sample. Even though you get a factory warranty, Samsung can and will only do but so much. For example, if you need a panel replacement it's not guaranteed you will get one due to them stopping production. The only option would be for them to offer an LCD TV. That would suck wholeheartedly.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HLdan View Post
While I haven't personally done this, may I ask why is this important? Unless you just purchased an F8500 and are contemplating taking it back for an OLED I really don't see how this information will help. Since the F8500 is nearly nothing but impossible to find your only real choice is to get an OLED if you want Plasma-like PQ.
It'll give a F8500 owner who is considering buying a OLED some information as to how the OLED handles reflections relative to the F8500.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:17 PM
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It'll give a F8500 owner who is considering buying a OLED some information as to how the OLED handles reflections relative to the F8500.
Haha, Uh I know that already. The poster earlier stated that exactly. My point was since we as Plasma owners/enthusiasts don't have many options for future TV's I didn't see the point of being concerned about reflections in terms of comparing the OLED against the F8500. Plasma owners looking to upgrade only have OLED to look forward to if we want anything in relation to the PQ of a Plasma. If we decide against an OLED all that's available are LCD's. It's not much of a choice. Sometimes you have to take the bad with the good unfortunately.
Somebody mentioned about Best Buy F8500 floor demos. If someone here was contemplating on purchasing one of those I can understand the point of the question.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:46 PM
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I'd be concerned still about buying a floor sample. Even though you get a factory warranty, Samsung can and will only do but so much. For example, if you need a panel replacement it's not guaranteed you will get one due to them stopping production. The only option would be for them to offer an LCD TV. That would suck wholeheartedly.
Let's put this another way. If you do not buy a floor sample, you're stuck either getting an LCD or, if the flat ones actually come out, you can go OLED. If you get a floor model plasma and it breaks, you're almost always offered your choice of a refund or a new set, so then take the refund and you're no worse off than you were.

All-around it sounds like a win-win gamble plus you get to watch an 8500 for at least a while.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:51 PM
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Let's put this another way. If you do not buy a floor sample, you're stuck either getting an LCD or, if the flat ones actually come out, you can go OLED. If you get a floor model plasma and it breaks, you're almost always offered your choice of a refund or a new set, so then take the refund and you're no worse off than you were.

All-around it sounds like a win-win gamble.
I read a couple of members here have been offered only an LCD as a replacement from Samsung and not a refund. Getting a refund might hold true from Best Buy if you buy Best Buy's extended warranty but Samsung's factory warranty doesn't seem to be guaranteeing refunds. I would say it's a gamble more than a win.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:53 PM
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Has anyone noticed any false contouring (Banding) on there sets? I see it every now and then. Space scenes are bad. But Friday night I was watching American Sniper, and the scene of the sand storm was so bad I almost turned the movie off.
A sand storm and confetti falling are the two nightmare scenarios for digital video compression. Even on BD it will be iffy and when streaming it will just plain be bad, and on cable/satellite a bunch of multicolored blocks.

That being said, I recall seeing banding on that scene even in the theatre so it could have been introduced in acquisition as well (it was shot digitally) or in post.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:57 PM
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I read a couple of members here have been offered only an LCD as a replacement from Samsung and not a refund. Getting a refund might hold true from Best Buy if you buy Best Buy's extended warranty but Samsung's factory warranty doesn't seem to be guaranteeing refunds. I would say it's a gamble more than a win.
Even in your scenario, how are you worse off if you end up with an LCD either way?

If you're waiting for OLED, an 8500 won't tempt you anyway.

If you're looking for an 8500 it's your only real choice, as a used one may not even have a factory warranty attached.

Worst case you get a NIB LCD you can eBay/Craigslist.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:22 PM
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Even in your scenario, how are you worse off if you end up with an LCD either way?

If you're waiting for OLED, an 8500 won't tempt you anyway.

If you're looking for an 8500 it's your only real choice, as a used one may not even have a factory warranty attached.

Worst case you get a NIB LCD you can eBay/Craigslist.
Uh, an LCD is completely out of the question as most people that are interested in Plasma won't even touch one, myself included. Horrible screen uniformity, clouding, flash-lighting, poor blacks, especially when viewing a movie in letterbox. Higher chances of defective pixels and the viewing angles are very poor. FALD is only a bandaid for some of the wrongs about LCD but it doesn't bring an LCD even close to a Plasma or an OLED.

Most people buying a demo F8500 from a dealer such as Best Buy WILL get a warranty. I would rather have a demo F8500 with more than 5000 hours on it than to buy an LCD brand new in the box.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:30 PM
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Uh, an LCD is completely out of the question as most people that are interested in Plasma won't even touch one, myself included. Horrible screen uniformity, clouding, flash-lighting, poor blacks, especially when viewing a movie in letterbox. Higher chances of defective pixels and the viewing angles are very poor. FALD is only a bandaid for some of the wrongs about LCD but it doesn't bring an LCD even close to a Plasma or an OLED.
That was my point; perhaps I was unclear.

What I was trying to say, perhaps inarticulately, is that a demo F8500 is worth it because if it breaks, worst case with the factory warranty you end up with a new Samsung LCD you can turn around and sell to help finance a future OLED.

That's no different than if you declined to purchase an open box F8500; you'd still have no choice other than LCD or waiting for OLED.

So it makes sense if you love plasma to go ahead and pick up the open box set as, best case, you end up with an F8500 for a discount, and worst case, as mentioned above, you end up with a new TV you can sell to help finance some other alternative.

I personally pulled the trigger because I wanted an F8500, purchased a new one last December, had to return it because of the incessant directional sizzle that made me hate even turning it on, and none of the demos I've seen has had it. The one I purchased looked perfect, had no directional sizzle and so got me the glory of the F8500, if only for a little while and best case for the next decade or two.

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Old 05-17-2015, 07:11 PM
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That was my point; perhaps I was unclear.

What I was trying to say, perhaps inarticulately, is that a demo F8500 is worth it because if it breaks, worst case with the factory warranty you end up with a new Samsung LCD you can turn around and sell to help finance a future OLED.

That's no different than if you declined to purchase an open box F8500; you'd still have no choice other than LCD or waiting for OLED.

So it makes sense if you love plasma to go ahead and pick up the open box set as, best case, you end up with an F8500 for a discount, and worst case, as mentioned above, you end up with a new TV you can sell to help finance some other alternative.

I personally pulled the trigger because I wanted an F8500, purchased a new one last December, had to return it because of the incessant directional sizzle that made me hate even turning it on, and none of the demos I've seen has had it. The one I purchased looked perfect, had no directional sizzle and so got me the glory of the F8500, if only for a little while and best case for the next decade or two.
Ah okay, I see your point and well taken. That's great your F8500 demo doesn't have the directional buzz. I'm holding onto my F8500 forever regardless if I decided later to buy an OLED.
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Old 05-17-2015, 07:38 PM
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I prefer a plasma myself but it should be pointed out that there are significant PQ enhancements with LCD televisions coming out this year mainly utilizing real HDR and a larger color gamut. Even Dwayne Davis is impressed with HDR PQ. The upcoming Vizio R series may be capable of astonishing PQ, that is if you're viewing it dead center. It's the only TV I know of that will utilize Dolby HDR. And lets not forget the Sharp Elite won the 2011 HDTV shootout - the R series may be the LCD that finally surpasses it in terms of FALD performance.

I'm hoping OLEDs can fix most of their issues such as the manufacturing process (the success rate of panel production), longevity of panel life, image retention and color fidelity. And like it or not not motion is like that of a LCD where you'll have motion interpolation to reduce motion blur. With both LCD and OLED a lot of stuff (like agreed upon standards) needs to be worked in the coming of years.

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Old 05-17-2015, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by venus933 View Post
I prefer a plasma myself but it should be pointed out that there are significant PQ enhancements with LCD televisions coming out this year mainly utilizing real HDR and a larger color gamut.
None of that obviates flashlighting on edge-lit displays or halos on FALD displays. Those are inherent limitations of LCD and nothing's going to change them anytime soon.

Add the question as to whether there will be any useful HDR content, and it becomes a feature in search of a use at least for the near future.

For example, I chose the F8500 rather than a 4K set of some type both for PQ and because 4K content is going to be slow in coming, even if 4K Blu-ray takes off.

There's no reason to be concerned about OLED lifetime, but I agree on motion due to LG's use of sample-and-hold; hopefully if Panasonic or someone else who knows what they're doing jumps in they can make killer TVs using LG's panels.
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