Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Hmm, interesting.

I haven't really watched 3D on this yet, but when I was trying to "calibrate" it, I was watching the beginning of The Avengers. I specifically remember brightness pops when SLJ comes out of the helicopter. Maybe somebody can look at that and confirm/deny whether they're still there.

Brightness pops in 3D are still there. Just confirmed by watching Prometheus. So disappointed.
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post #1532 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

I had to re-setup my smarthub after installing the new 1111 fw. Anyone else have to re-setup the smarthub again?

Yes. My logins were saved, thankfully.
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post #1533 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 07:25 PM
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Does anyone know how to tell exactly what firmware version is installed? My Software Update menu lists the firmware as 1111 but doesn't mention a .4 or anything. I updated to 1111 over the air today. I tried downloading the 1111.4 update from Samsung's site but have had no luck installing it from either a USB stick or USB hard drive. I get an invalid content when trying to install from either device. I've followed the instructions on how to extract the files and the folder structure. Any tips on getting it to install? Or does the error perhaps mean the 1111 I installed over the air is actually 1111.4?
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post #1534 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

Does anyone know how to tell exactly what firmware version is installed? My Software Update menu lists the firmware as 1111 but doesn't mention a .4 or anything. I updated to 1111 over the air today. I tried downloading the 1111.4 update from Samsung's site but have had no luck installing it from either a USB stick or USB hard drive. I get an invalid content when trying to install from either device. I've followed the instructions on how to extract the files and the folder structure. Any tips on getting it to install? Or does the error perhaps mean the 1111 I installed over the air is actually 1111.4?
If you have 1111 installed, you have the latest firmware. Here's how to tell the exact fw version on your 8500. Go to the "Self Diagnosis" sub-menu from the "Support Menu" and select "Picture Test". Select "Ok" on the popup menu, and a photo will show up on the screen. Wait for another popup menu to display, and select "Yes". After making that selection, another window will popup with your serial #, model code, and software version.
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post #1535 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post

If you have 1111 installed, you have the latest firmware. Here's how to tell the exact fw version on your 8500. Go to the "Self Diagnosis" sub-menu from the "Support Menu" and select "Picture Test". Select "Ok" on the popup menu, and a photo will show up on the screen. Wait for another popup menu to display, and select "Yes". After making that selection, another window will popup with your serial #, model code, and software version.

Thanks for the instructions. My set indeed has 1111.4 and brightness pops absolutely still happen in 3D, no question about it. This problem is still ongoing. Time to send Samsung yet another email ...
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post #1536 of 9030 Old 09-04-2013, 08:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

Does anyone know how to tell exactly what firmware version is installed?

Just ignore the period value.

1111 is 1111.4

1234 could be 1234.2 or 1234.6 but they will always just release 1234.x once, then on to 1235
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post #1537 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

3D brightness pops are absolutely not solved with 1111. What are you guys watching? I just popped in Prometheus and the pops still happen in all the usual places in the movie's first few minutes.

EDIT: Did you test with Cinema Smooth on? If so, this is already known to solve brightness pops, even before 1111 (but comes with its own set of issues). I watch 3D with Motion Judder Canceler set to Smooth and still see the pops in Prometheus as mentioned above.

I own Prometheus and threw it in the Oppo, no brightness pops period. And yes I tried it with CS both on and off. If you read my original post (#1521) on this matter it states the content and methods I used for testing the 3d btw. I don't know what to tell you but it has resolved my 3d / brightness issues. Please post the link to the trailer that you viewed and I will check it out as well.
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post #1538 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 03:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Cyberrocker View Post

I own Prometheus and threw it in the Oppo, no brightness pops period. And yes I tried it with CS both on and off. If you read my original post (#1521) on this matter it states the content and methods I used for testing the 3d btw. I don't know what to tell you but it has resolved my 3d / brightness issues. Please post the link to the trailer that you viewed and I will check it out as well.

I think it was someone else who mentioned a trailer. As for Prometheus, watch the movie's intro from the first second all the way through when the engineer drinks the liquid. There are tons of brightness pops, especially on the waterfall and sky as the camera approaches the engineer standing on the cliff, and massive pops on shots of his body and especially face.

I am downright shocked that you say you are not seeing them. What could the discrepancy be? Is it a matter of settings? I've been waiting for months for this issue to be fixed and with each update its like torture. Hearing you claim that the issue is fixed in this update when it plainly is not on my set is the ultimate tease. eek.gif

EDIT: You didn't mention if you tested with Motion Judder Canceler on or off. I'll poke around my settings and see if I can come up with some settings that solve the pops. Also, I have not unlocked the Cal Day, Cal Night modes. Were you on one of those specific modes?

EDIT 2: Did some testing with different settings and the only way I could eliminate the 3D brightness pops was to have Dynamic Contrast set to High. Then, of course, the PQ was way blown out, so not an acceptable solution, IMHO.

I managed to eliminate some of the pops by cranking the Contrast to 100 and Brightness to 65, but then with those black levels I might as well buy an LCD. smile.gif

Motion Judder Canceler had no affect on the pops either way.

Also, I saw you commented in your earlier post that you have neither buzz nor IR. I have buzz and IR on all three PN60F8500's I've owned, including my current one. In fact, after testing with Prometheus I see IR of the black bars on my screen as happens after I watch any letter-boxed content. Have you not seen this, as well?
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post #1539 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 07:48 AM
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The cinema smooth/film mode option is not available when watching videos from youtube on the 8500, so that's not an option for 3D viewing from the smarthub. I'm with Watcher12. 3D brightness pops are still present on my tv after downloading fw ver 1111.
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post #1540 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watcher12 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyberrocker View Post

I own Prometheus and threw it in the Oppo, no brightness pops period. And yes I tried it with CS both on and off. If you read my original post (#1521) on this matter it states the content and methods I used for testing the 3d btw. I don't know what to tell you but it has resolved my 3d / brightness issues. Please post the link to the trailer that you viewed and I will check it out as well.

I think it was someone else who mentioned a trailer. As for Prometheus, watch the movie's intro from the first second all the way through when the engineer drinks the liquid. There are tons of brightness pops, especially on the waterfall and sky as the camera approaches the engineer standing on the cliff, and massive pops on shots of his body and especially face.

I am downright shocked that you say you are not seeing them. What could the discrepancy be? Is it a matter of settings? I've been waiting for months for this issue to be fixed and with each update its like torture. Hearing you claim that the issue is fixed in this update when it plainly is not on my set is the ultimate tease. eek.gif

EDIT: You didn't mention if you tested with Motion Judder Canceler on or off. I'll poke around my settings and see if I can come up with some settings that solve the pops. Also, I have not unlocked the Cal Day, Cal Night modes. Were you on one of those specific modes?

EDIT 2: Did some testing with different settings and the only way I could eliminate the 3D brightness pops was to have Dynamic Contrast set to High. Then, of course, the PQ was way blown out, so not an acceptable solution, IMHO.

I managed to eliminate some of the pops by cranking the Contrast to 100 and Brightness to 65, but then with those black levels I might as well buy an LCD. smile.gif

Motion Judder Canceler had no affect on the pops either way.

Also, I saw you commented in your earlier post that you have neither buzz nor IR. I have buzz and IR on all three PN60F8500's I've owned, including my current one. In fact, after testing with Prometheus I see IR of the black bars on my screen as happens after I watch any letter-boxed content. Have you not seen this, as well?
The 3D brightness pops are annoying. I've just updated to 1111.4 and will test Prometheus 3D tonight after dark.

BTW, to the folks who responded to my queries about the 'STB connected device' popups, thanks for your replies. I finally managed to figure out how to Delete the STB from the Input Setup menu and no more annoying popups.


Max
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post #1541 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 10:50 AM
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^
Could you please provide a step-by-step process to follow for getting that pop-up message to disappear? It would be greatly appreciated.
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post #1542 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattduke1 View Post

^
Could you please provide a step-by-step process to follow for getting that pop-up message to disappear? It would be greatly appreciated.
Here's what I did:
On the included touchpad remote
- click the Source button on the top center
- swipe upwards on the touchpad to get to the 2 small icons on the top right of the TV screen
- swipe to the icon on the left 'Universal Remote Setup'
- In that menu, you can now Delete the STB

This option has no real cons for me because the Samsung touchpad remote is extremely laggy when trying to control the Motorola cable box, so I use the Cable box remote anyway. I'm not sure what else enabling the STB allows, but the HD channels have to go through the Motorola cable box anyway, so I just use the cable remote for the cable box.


Max
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post #1543 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eelpout View Post

Interesting you mention this, I came to this thread to see if anyone talked about a "flash" or blip on the F8500.

I was at BB today and noticed what I thought was the same phenomenon on their 60" F8500. None of the other sets on the same video loop, ZT, VT, F8000, 900A, Sharp 857 did it. It definitely looked like an insanely quick dimming or black frame was going by. I asked the Magnolia guy about it and he said yep, it's been there since they put that set up and hadn't figured out how to get rid of it yet. He said they've been through the menus several times but with no success. The source was some recording of a law reality show I think (with lots of snow scenes), not their usual promo stuff.

I ended up buying one through them regardless and should have it by the end of the week (replacing a 12 year old Mitsu CRT rear projection). I intended to get an ST60 but this BB anyway is back ordered a couple weeks. They just can't get them. The F8500 will work better with the wall of windows it has to face anyway. cool.gif

If I get this blip though and it can't be tamed, it's going back. Though I'm guessing it could be a problem with their demo unit.

PTO, did you ever figure your issue out?

It looks like the TV was just defective. I tried a reset among other things and nothing fixed the issue. I returned the TV to Amazon and got a replacement that works flawlessly.
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post #1544 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by eelpout View Post

Interesting you mention this, I came to this thread to see if anyone talked about a "flash" or blip on the F8500.

I was at BB today and noticed what I thought was the same phenomenon on their 60" F8500. None of the other sets on the same video loop, ZT, VT, F8000, 900A, Sharp 857 did it. It definitely looked like an insanely quick dimming or black frame was going by. I asked the Magnolia guy about it and he said yep, it's been there since they put that set up and hadn't figured out how to get rid of it yet. He said they've been through the menus several times but with no success. The source was some recording of a law reality show I think (with lots of snow scenes), not their usual promo stuff.

I ended up buying one through them regardless and should have it by the end of the week (replacing a 12 year old Mitsu CRT rear projection). I intended to get an ST60 but this BB anyway is back ordered a couple weeks. They just can't get them. The F8500 will work better with the wall of windows it has to face anyway. cool.gif

If I get this blip though and it can't be tamed, it's going back. Though I'm guessing it could be a problem with their demo unit.

PTO, did you ever figure your issue out?

It looks like the TV was just defective. I tried a reset among other things and nothing fixed the issue. I returned the TV to Amazon and got a replacement that works flawlessly.
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post #1545 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 02:10 PM
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Last night I decided to get out the meter and make some preliminary measurements on my 51" F8500.
Inital settings that will effect black level were as follows:
Movie mode or Cal night (they both have the same settings).
Cell @15, Contrast @ 90, Brighness @ 47, Black Optimizer On, All other enhancements Off.

I used my Monaco Optix DTP-94 and HCFR software for the measurements with all lights out in the room (as always) and GetGray DVD and the GCD test discs for these measurements. The getGray disc has about 20% size window paterns with an all black background and the GCD disc has 10% windows with a grey background that changes so the APL (average picture level) is a constant 21% (a must for calibrating a plasma per Chad B).

With the Getgray disc and 0% black pattern (an all black screen) I meaured .003fl with Black Optimizer ON.
I lowered the brightness down to 40 just to be sure and still measured that same.
I then changed the cell light down to 8 and up to 20 with the same result .003fl.
With settings back where I started, I turned B.O. Off and now measured .012fl.
A 4x increase (give or take) and as I stated before is clearly visible..
Changing the brightness or cell light again had no effect.

With the GCD disc and 0% black (10% windows APL) I measured (the real shocker) .02fL.
Turning off B.O. had no effect nor did changing brightness or cell light (although I think I only went down to 12 or 13 with this last test.
This is beacause the 21% APL on the GCD disc is above whatever threshold the panel uses to trigger these "enhancements" to the black level but results in less contrast in low to medium-low light scenes.
By contrast (no pun intended) the ST60 panel would keep the exact black level (also .003fL) with both test patterns without any "floating" like the F8500.

I went on to do a grayscale run (10% steps) with the GCD disc and this panel is pretty well behaved (no wild fluctuations like the pany) with 100% light output @ 35fL and a fairly smooth gamma curve (average gamma was 2.35). The .02fL reading @ 0% black on means the On/Off contrast ratio is only 1750:1 with these APL windows but would be almost 12000:1 with the GetGray windows.

So here is the proof of what I have been seeing and since I have not found any other measurements on a 51" panel I'm asuming this is normal (like it or not).

Todd
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post #1546 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 03:20 PM
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Zoyd has done some really good work that shows the same thing you have observed

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post #1547 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Zoyd has done some really good work that shows the same thing you have observed

Can you tell me where you saw that, was it F8500 specific ?
I'm aware of most of the plasma issues with APL & test patterns from the calibration threads.

Thanks
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post #1548 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 06:47 PM
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Look in my signature Todd data was derived from multiple sources I think the samsungs d and e models and 8500 all showed similar behavior

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post #1549 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 07:56 PM
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Question for you guys:

Is there a way I can see my PN60F8500 as a "Computer" rather than a "Media Device" over my wireless home network with Windows 8? I don't have a server or anything, just a router.

I have an external, AC-powered hard drive plugged into one of the USB ports, and was hoping I could connect to the TV, and through that the powered hard drive, to then update the drive with new video files as needed.
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post #1550 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 08:43 PM
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I wish they would release a changelog, it's not like it would take the programmer forever... I mean geez, all of a few minutes to do a quickie txt file generalizing the updates they've been working on for months would be adequate.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #1551 of 9030 Old 09-05-2013, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Look in my signature Todd data was derived from multiple sources I think the samsungs d and e models and 8500 all showed similar behavior

Thanks, that's a great thread I had never seen !!
Actually the F8500 contrast ratio drops even more than the E8000 & D8000.
This is the most telling of his data:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl#post_23383073
The D & E series are about the same as the F8500 !!

So what we have here is Samsung resorting to trickery and deception to get such good numbers (with very dark content) but they are not that great with real content.

I'm downloading Zoyd's test disc as I type here and may send him a PM to see what his tweak was to his D8000 set ?

Todd
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post #1552 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 01:38 AM
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I recently purchased the 64 inch F8500 plasma from Cruitchfield. I must say that I am very dissipointed with it. While the black levele is improved its at the expense of color and brightness in my opinion. The picture looks dull to me and too much like the Panasonic plasmas. Im going to return it and wait for the Sony or Sansung 4k tvs to fall some more in price!
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post #1553 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd95008 View Post

Thanks, that's a great thread I had never seen !!
Actually the F8500 contrast ratio drops even more than the E8000 & D8000.
This is the most telling of his data:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl#post_23383073
The D & E series are about the same as the F8500 !!

So what we have here is Samsung resorting to trickery and deception to get such good numbers (with very dark content) but they are not that great with real content.

I'm downloading Zoyd's test disc as I type here and may send him a PM to see what his tweak was to his D8000 set ?

Todd

Those findings are rather disturbing to me, but confirm what I've been seeing with my eyes all along. Movie's black bars look dark gray to me, almost like an 'illuminated' black, and dark content often looks crushed even with Dark Tone off.

Seeing these findings plus the lingering 3D brightness pop issue really has me thinking twice about my purchase. The thing that has me hesitating about swapping it for a VT60 is the Evolution Kit and the promise of HDMI 2.0 (want to eventually do 60fps 3D gaming). Also hoping Evo Kit brings better Motion Judder Canceller and 3D algorithms with the beefed up processing power, but who knows.
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post #1554 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 03:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by todd95008 View Post

Thanks, that's a great thread I had never seen !!
Actually the F8500 contrast ratio drops even more than the E8000 & D8000.
This is the most telling of his data:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1415546/patterns-to-measure-mll-as-a-function-of-apl#post_23383073
The D & E series are about the same as the F8500 !!

So what we have here is Samsung resorting to trickery and deception to get such good numbers (with very dark content) but they are not that great with real content.

I'm downloading Zoyd's test disc as I type here and may send him a PM to see what his tweak was to his D8000 set ?

Todd

Not sure what his fix was Todd but he is a very knowledgable guy

Edit: Todd after looking over in the calibration forum my guess is that he adjusted the voltage on his panel using the trim pots.

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post #1555 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 08:25 AM
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Just picked up an open box last night that was already calibrated for a pretty good price. Everything looks great but I'm having one issue. The only source I can get sound from is HDMI1 (stb). Do the other three hdmi ports not support sound or something? Is there a setting I need to change? Any help would be appreciated.
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post #1556 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 08:29 AM
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My guess is that the other HDMI (sources) have the speaker set to external. Just switch to that source and check the setting.
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post #1557 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by PTO View Post

My guess is that the other HDMI (sources) have the speaker set to external. Just switch to that source and check the setting.

Thanks for the reply, however I made sure the other sources were set to tv speaker. Any other ides?
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post #1558 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by mrTr0ut View Post

Just picked up an open box last night that was already calibrated for a pretty good price. Everything looks great but I'm having one issue. The only source I can get sound from is HDMI1 (stb). Do the other three hdmi ports not support sound or something? Is there a setting I need to change? Any help would be appreciated.
Are you using a receiver? Are you trying to use ARC?

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post #1559 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 09:00 AM
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No I don't have a receiver. I have my cable STB hooked into HDMI1, Bluray into HDMI2, and WDLibe hub into the third port...only get sound from the first port.
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post #1560 of 9030 Old 09-06-2013, 09:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrTr0ut View Post

Just picked up an open box last night that was already calibrated for a pretty good price. Everything looks great but I'm having one issue. The only source I can get sound from is HDMI1 (stb). Do the other three hdmi ports not support sound or something? Is there a setting I need to change? Any help would be appreciated.
That does not sound good to me. My blu-ray player can turn its hdmi audio off....did you check that on your player? Did you try connecting your stb to one of the other tv's hdmi inputs?
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