Official Samsung PNxxF8500 Owners Thread (No Street Price Talk) - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 7293 Old 11-10-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

I've attached one more pic when I was running the slides. Its much more subtle here, but still evident.

IMG_3725.JPG 1287k .JPG file

Unless that is an artifact of the camera it does not look right at all, mine is solid blue on a blue slide. Here is a color and a black slide.

Color Slide -
ColorSlide.jpg 235k .jpg file

Black Slide -
Slide Black.jpg 186k .jpg file

The picture blurred a little but no banding.
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File Type: jpg Slide Black.jpg (185.9 KB, 46 views)
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post #1982 of 7293 Old 11-11-2013, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

bang on. exactly what i experience too.

unfortunately, it looks like we'll be stuck with bias lighting, or dealing with the 'glow' for some time. the last tv i had that looks 'off' when displaying a completely black image was a CRT RPTV. i will say though, the f8500 does 'turn off' the display when an all black signal is recognized. it's not 100% accurate, and you can tell it's doing it as it's not a gradual fade, but a sudden 'jump'. still, i suppose it's more helpful than harmful, and for a split second or two it does appear actually black. of course, as long as there is anything to be displayed(credits for example) you won't get this kicking in.

Just a quick question for you

If you watch a widescreen movie and there is very low apl ( like a dark scene ) do the bars on the top and bottom blend into the bezel? Or are the black levels. Not deep enough?
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post #1983 of 7293 Old 11-11-2013, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Just a quick question for you

If you watch a widescreen movie and there is very low apl ( like a dark scene ) do the bars on the top and bottom blend into the bezel? Or are the black levels. Not deep enough?

If its any consolation, on my 65VT50, I find that using AGC (automatic gain control) give me an overall better picture but in using it, it does exactly the same thing on the darker scenes.

The choice I have is to not use AGC and lose the punchiness of the picture and darker APL scenes appear a bit too dark or use AGC and live with it.

Since my philosophy is do what it takes to get the best looking picture as much of the time as possible, I use the AGC setting and fume about it as you guys are doing with the 8500s.

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post #1984 of 7293 Old 11-11-2013, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post

If its any consolation, on my 65VT50, I find that using AGC (automatic gain control) give me an overall better picture but in using it, it does exactly the same thing on the darker scenes.

The choice I have is to not use AGC and lose the punchiness of the picture and darker APL scenes appear a bit too dark or use AGC and live with it.

Since my philosophy is do what it takes to get the best looking picture as much of the time as possible, I use the AGC setting and fume about it as you guys are doing with the 8500s.

I don think you are suppose to use the agc control or any of those picture altering functions....I don't think any calibrator changes their default setting either. If you are playing around with it to get that punchy picture there must be something aloof. The VT50 is a great display, it should be punchy and dynamic with ease!
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post #1985 of 7293 Old 11-11-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I don think you are suppose to use the agc control or any of those picture altering functions....I don't think any calibrator changes their default setting either. If you are playing around with it to get that punchy picture there must be something aloof. The VT50 is a great display, it should be punchy and dynamic with ease!

I agree with you.

I've debated this back and forth quite a bit and the conclusion I've come up with is that most of these plasma display calibrations presume that you're in a very dark if not black viewing room with peak white targeted at 30 or so foot lamberts. The panel behaves differently than if you're in a moderately lit room trying to maximize the light output.

Ultimately, you have to do what yields the best picture regardless of what others tell you and for that matter what your calibration software and equipment tells you.
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post #1986 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 03:49 AM
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Hello Everyone!

 

Never thought I would be participating in a Samsung thread, but I am looking for owner input.

 

Just bought and received the Panasonic 65" ZT60 yesterday.  It is going back to the store.

 

Black levels were amazing.  Blu-rays looked spectacular.  Light output was just great.

 

Broadcast TV, however, looked very bad.  And even worse....3D was non-existent.

 

I have a LG THX PX950 that I have reviewed dozens of 3D discs on.  The LG sports amazing depth and defined pop-out.  Tested all my best 3D discs that I usually demo, and all of them failed on the Panasonic.  No pop-out where there should have been.  Depth was severely limited.

 

So my question...

 

How is the 3D on the Samsung f8500?  I am looking to buy the 64" display.

 

Any problems with the display I should know about before making the switch?  I will try to read some of the posts in this thread but there is a lot to digest.

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post #1987 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 04:05 AM
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Ronald

Which bluray player are you using?

Do you have the screen size in the player correctly selected?

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post #1988 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 05:20 AM
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Hi Jim!

 

Things have changed within the past hour.  Suddenly the 3D kicked in as it should.

 

In the ZT60 thread, another AVS user is saying he initially had the same problem where the 3D was very lackluster initially.

 

I am using the Oppo BPP-93.

 

Still auditioning dozens of 3D discs on this display.  Things are looking much better than they were.

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post #1989 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JimP View Post


Ultimately, you have to do what yields the best picture regardless of what others tell you and for that matter what your calibration software and equipment tells you.

The understatment of the year smile.gif

I think there is great value in tuning it as close to reference as you can get it, as it makes the best base to then tune it for preference, but getting it to where you like it is the real goal, even if that is no longer reference.
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post #1990 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Just a quick question for you

If you watch a widescreen movie and there is very low apl ( like a dark scene ) do the bars on the top and bottom blend into the bezel? Or are the black levels. Not deep enough?

On my PN60F8500 - effectively yes

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post #1991 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 08:46 AM
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On my PN60F8500 - effectively yes

YES on mine as well. Even with the room lights dimmed to the lowest setting.
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post #1992 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post


So my question...

How is the 3D on the Samsung f8500?  I am looking to buy the 64" display.

Any problems with the display I should know about before making the switch?  I will try to read some of the posts in this thread but there is a lot to digest.

It is probably a waste of time to reply to this since you seem happy now with your Panasonic.

The F8500 has brightness pops in 3D, apparent with some BDs. Samsung seems unwilling or unable to provide a firmware fix.

The F8500 does not have a special mode for 3D, which in some ways is A Good Thing and in others Not So Much. It senses when 3D media is played on the Oppo and uses whichever mode is currently selected; then you tweak that mode for 3D. I found that confusing, but OK once configured.

I had to increase the cell light from 15 to 20 and reduce contrast a bunch from the 2D setting (from 95 to 87). Also decreased gamma from +1 (2D) to -3 (3D). These are "by eye"; my guess is that a professional cal would provide a significantly better PQ, but my set does not have enough hours on it yet...
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post #1993 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 10:25 AM
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Not a waste of time, Wants...

 

...in fact, maybe some good news for me.

 

I need reasons not to yearn for the f8500.  You provided some.  

 

Yeah, my Panny is actually beginning to work out.  It has been a comedy of errors all day with it, but a lot of fluke things happened that weren't necessarily the fault of the display.

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post #1994 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 11:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Just a quick question for you

If you watch a widescreen movie and there is very low apl ( like a dark scene ) do the bars on the top and bottom blend into the bezel? Or are the black levels. Not deep enough?

with any lights on, yes, but remember that the bezel isn't exactly black.

with zero lights on(my room is set up for the projector, so I am able to get complete darkness in the room) no, I can easily see the shape of the screen when it's a very dark scene. it doesn't take much bright content on screen to make the black bars disappear though.

the black levels on the f8500 are still REALLY REALLY good compared to what else has been available for the last 5 or so year. it's just that no plasma(kuro even) can turn off pixels, and so it'll never be 'off black' like a good crt was.

here's a shot that compared the f8500(on top) to my old b530 that I took the first day I got the f8500. the b530 was calibrated, the f8500 was in movie mode uncalibrated.


I didn't have anything perfect on hand to show this, but here's a pic I took shortly after I got the tv. you can JUST barely see the black bars if you look really hard for them. consider any scenes that are darker than this, you'll start to notice the black bars. anything brighter, there's basically no chance you'll notice the black bars. and of course, that's with all the lights off only. I have three pot lights installed right over the tv, and having them on at just below reading levels is enough to make blacks look black.


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post #1995 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

On my PN60F8500 - effectively yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmavra View Post

YES on mine as well. Even with the room lights dimmed to the lowest setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

with any lights on, yes, but remember that the bezel isn't exactly black.

with zero lights on(my room is set up for the projector, so I am able to get complete darkness in the room) no, I can easily see the shape of the screen when it's a very dark scene. it doesn't take much bright content on screen to make the black bars disappear though.

the black levels on the f8500 are still REALLY REALLY good compared to what else has been available for the last 5 or so year. it's just that no plasma(kuro even) can turn off pixels, and so it'll never be 'off black' like a good crt was.

here's a shot that compared the f8500(on top) to my old b530 that I took the first day I got the f8500. the b530 was calibrated, the f8500 was in movie mode uncalibrated.


I didn't have anything perfect on hand to show this, but here's a pic I took shortly after I got the tv. you can JUST barely see the black bars if you look really hard for them. consider any scenes that are darker than this, you'll start to notice the black bars. anything brighter, there's basically no chance you'll notice the black bars. and of course, that's with all the lights off only. I have three pot lights installed right over the tv, and having them on at just below reading levels is enough to make blacks look black.


Arlight so they do blend in with the bezel or background in a dark room according to jmavra and Dougofthenorth....

but according to Fierce_gt and his screenshot the black bars are visible in the dark room with dark content

So either the 8500 doesnt reach deep enough black levels and they float aggresively

OR

He didnt enable the black optimizer feature....because according to the majority of the reviews ive read of the f8500, its black levels were deep enough to blend into a dark room with dark content
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post #1996 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 07:06 PM
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I received my replacement set yesterday. The new set still has vertical bars/bands, but they are much better/milder than the first set. They are not as apparent as they were before during panning scenes; I have to really search for them now. While my first set had some buzzing, this one is by far much quieter and I hear a noticeable difference.

One problem I am having now which I didn't before is that I'm getting brightness pops in 2D. I updated to 1114 when I first got the TV, but the brightness pops are all over the place when watching hockey or basketball. I tried turning off the TV and unplugging the set for 1 minute, but they are still there when I turn the TV back on. Any suggestions?
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post #1997 of 7293 Old 11-12-2013, 10:15 PM
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Here is an example of what I expect to see from a F8500.....

this is a screenshot from a vt60 with the contrast turned all the down ( pre 500 hour mark before calibration )



Notice how the blacks blend in with the dark room and this is with the contrast turned ALL the way down....Is this what I can expect from an F8500?
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post #1998 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

Here is an example of what I expect to see from a F8500.....

this is a screenshot from a vt60 with the contrast turned all the down ( pre 500 hour mark before calibration )



Notice how the blacks blend in with the dark room and this is with the contrast turned ALL the way down....Is this what I can expect from an F8500?

Here's a picture of one of the earlier scenes in Avatar. Taken with a Fuji X100s at 1/20s f2.5 (original size is attached as well)
Tried with a bunch of shutter speeds, 1/20s gave me the best exposure to match what I was seeing. Could not see any of the bezel.
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post #1999 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 09:23 AM
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Due to the location of the TV and my cable box, my IR blaster won't reach. So I would like to buy an extension cable for the IR blaster cable. Does anyone have the specs for this? It looks like a standard mono audio cable but I'm just not sure. Thanks in advance for any help!
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post #2000 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 10:15 AM
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Just set up my new 51 inch 8500. No buzz, picture is absolutely awesome. Much better sharpness than my 4 year old Pioneer 950. Loving it so far.
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post #2001 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 04:55 PM
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I contacted Samsung regarding the Brightness Pops I'm experiencing in 2D. I spent an hour with their online chat help, but they only corresponding for about 5 minutes. They recommended the same steps I told them I tried when I first reported the problem, so I gave up and called the 800 number. After they checked my firmware (1114) and had me reset the TV, they wanted me to schedule a tech to come out. Given that I've had this replacement TV for 2 days, I'm going to try for a 3rd set with Best Buy.
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post #2002 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:12 PM
 
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^Deja vu....this problem existed at the set's infancy and was purportedly fixed many firmware updates ago.
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post #2003 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

...I posted a link of the brightness flashes that I'm getting during basketball below (I also get this on hockey).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7sh4awOxek

Are you sure that's not stadium camera flashes? That's what the basketball video looks like. If as you report, you only see the flashing on events with crowds, this may be your symptom.
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post #2004 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

I contacted Samsung regarding the Brightness Pops I'm experiencing in 2D. I spent an hour with their online chat help, but they only corresponding for about 5 minutes. They recommended the same steps I told them I tried when I first reported the problem, so I gave up and called the 800 number. After they checked my firmware (1114) and had me reset the TV, they wanted me to schedule a tech to come out. Given that I've had this replacement TV for 2 days, I'm going to try for a 3rd set with Best Buy. I posted a link of the brightness flashes that I'm getting during basketball below (I also get this on hockey).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7sh4awOxek

Are you sure that's not stadium camera flashes? That's what the basketball video looks like.
Yup, all I saw in that vid were stadium camera flashes. I saw the brightness pops when I first got the set but updating the firmware made them disappear in 2D. They're still there in 3D though.

If you want to see what the term 'brightness pops' describes, watch Prometheus in 3D and make sure that 'Dynamic Contrast' in 'Advanced Picture Settings' is OFF. You'll see what brightness pops are.


Max
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post #2005 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

I contacted Samsung regarding the Brightness Pops I'm experiencing in 2D. I spent an hour with their online chat help, but they only corresponding for about 5 minutes. They recommended the same steps I told them I tried when I first reported the problem, so I gave up and called the 800 number. After they checked my firmware (1114) and had me reset the TV, they wanted me to schedule a tech to come out. Given that I've had this replacement TV for 2 days, I'm going to try for a 3rd set with Best Buy. I posted a link of the brightness flashes that I'm getting during basketball below (I also get this on hockey).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7sh4awOxek

only basketball and hockey? not on any other regular programs or blurays? sure looks like camera flashes and not a problem with the actual panel. if it was the panel it would happen no matter what you are watching.

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post #2006 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:29 PM - Thread Starter
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^^ agree max, nothing like the original issue that no longer exists in 2D.

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post #2007 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:44 PM
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if it's not brightness pops, it's something that is very distracting and didn't show up on the first F8500 I received. I also don't see this on my Pioneer 5080 with the exact same source material.
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post #2008 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcDBecker View Post

if it's not brightness pops, it's something that is very distracting and didn't show up on the first F8500 I received. I also don't see this on my Pioneer 5080 with the exact same source material.
The level of distraction produced by the stadium flashes potentially has something to do with the refresh rate of the display AND how bright it can get, i.e. some sets aren't 'fast' enough to reproduce the flash, and some sets will do it, but the flash doesn't appear as bright, making it less obvious/distracting. Unfortunately, with a fast and bright display, those annoying stadium flashes are inevitable. I prefer that to my first LCD projector (a decade ago LOL) that was so slow, I couldn't make out anything in the entire sequence in 'Chronicles Of Riddick' where Riddick takes out all the sentries searching for him in Imam's house. All the projector would show in that entire sequence was occasional flashes. I didn't realize how much I was missing until I played that movie on a different display.


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post #2009 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 05:58 PM
 
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Perhaps the mode and settings you have your TV on accentuate the flashes.
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post #2010 of 7293 Old 11-13-2013, 06:21 PM
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after looking at it again, it looks like the F8500 captures the camera flashes more accurately than the 5080, although from my perspective that's not a helpful improvement. I guess its similar to how the 5080 is more forgiving on lower quality signals, although not as impressive as the F8500 on Blu Ray.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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