Anyone go from a ST60 or higher to an F8500? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 06-02-2013, 11:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I just picked up a 55st60 today to replace my Panasonic th-50px77u. The night time picture is stunning on the st60 compared to my old set, but the daytime picture seems brighter on the px77u. I have tried many different settings, but the only one brighter is vivid "yuck". There is also more glare on the st60.

I am considering exchanging it for a Samsung 51f8500. I am wondering if others have experienced the same. Is the f8500 that much brighter than the st60? Does it still have as good of blacks?

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post #2 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 04:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RodK View Post

I just picked up a 55st60 today to replace my Panasonic th-50px77u. The night time picture is stunning on the st60 compared to my old set, but the daytime picture seems brighter on the px77u. I have tried many different settings, but the only one brighter is vivid "yuck". There is also more glare on the st60.

I am considering exchanging it for a Samsung 51f8500. I am wondering if others have experienced the same. Is the f8500 that much brighter than the st60? Does it still have as good of blacks?
Supposedly the f8500 can get close to the brightness of some LED's. I also think the blacks on the 8500 measured very close to the ST60. Don't remember if they actually measured a little better. I think it depended on the settings that were being used.
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post #3 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RodK View Post

I just picked up a 55st60 today to replace my Panasonic th-50px77u. The night time picture is stunning on the st60 compared to my old set, but the daytime picture seems brighter on the px77u. I have tried many different settings, but the only one brighter is vivid "yuck". There is also more glare on the st60.

I am considering exchanging it for a Samsung 51f8500. I am wondering if others have experienced the same. Is the f8500 that much brighter than the st60? Does it still have as good of blacks?

The filter on the F8500 is definitely better. PQ is (at least on my panel) damn near perfect. I don't get any line bleed and minimal ABL, it's like having a thin profile CRT. I love how it looks. Brightness is just about the same as the ST60, though, and both sets have great black levels. IR gets stuck a bit more in the ST60, and the F8500 gets IR nearly instantly but it goes away, too, and isn't nearly as stubborn. 3D is sharper and clearer on the F8500, less cross talk and overall a more pleasing handling of the motion vs the ST60, which is difficult to watch in native 24 fps 3D. 2D to 3D conversion is better on the F8500 and has more methods to convert 2D to 3D. F8500 also seems to have faster phosphors, there is considerably less phosphor trailing vs the ST60. Both sets are equally laggy in Game Mode (ST60) and PC mode (F8500) so the difference really comes down to PQ and 3D.

I also like the stand better on the F8500, feels sturdier and less prone to wobble. Plus it slides across a table surface easier and doesn't scratch a tabletop like the ST60 stand. FWIW.

Have you gone into your power saving features and disabled it? Make sure the settings are standard and not eco, and then double check that C.A.T.S. is off. I never had a problem with the ST60's light output, aside from the reflections both TV's are equally bright in the same environment.
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post #4 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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yes all eco settings and cats are off. I have 3 huge windows in my living room. I was surprised that my old tv was brighter (both in custom mode and adjusted.) I am not too concerned with 3d or gaming that much. I am surprised to hear that the f8500 is the same brightness as the st60.

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post #5 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone else had both sets in their house? Any other opinions?

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post #6 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 01:15 PM
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I'm actually going to be doing the opposite. I'm going to BB today to return my 60F8500 and try out the 60ST60.

The F8500 has the best PQ I've seen so far, isn't reflective at all, gets plenty bright in sunlight, has an awesome remote, awesome smart suite, and gets rid of IR super fast. There are 2 reasons why I'm returning it: buzzing and eye fatigue. When I sit centered with the TV about 10-11ft back, the buzzing is pretty annoying even at moderate listening volumes. I can hear the buzzing and the audio at the same time, the buzzing is such a distinct pitch. If the buzzing is equal on the ST60, I still might keep it knowing I saved $1400. The eye fatigue is what really gets me. When I watch blu-rays in the dark, my eyes feel like they are straining to concentrate on the action, and I can feel them get squintier and squintier. After a while I realize I have no idea what is happening in the movie because all my attention has been directed on how fatigued my eyes get. I've never had this problem on LCDs, so maybe I just can't handle plasma flicker or whatever, I guess time will tell when my ST60 gets here...

edit: I might actually try the VT60 since it isn't as bright as the ST60 and has better 3D.

Sorry if this post doesn't help you lol

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post #7 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 01:34 PM
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On the ST60 for a brighter picture, try different picture modes like Home Theater and Custom with a higher contrast setting and under pro settings try panel brightness at Mid or HIGH, plus CATS off of course.
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post #8 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

I'm actually going to be doing the opposite. I'm going to BB today to return my 60F8500 and try out the 60ST60.

The F8500 has the best PQ I've seen so far, isn't reflective at all, gets plenty bright in sunlight, has an awesome remote, awesome smart suite, and gets rid of IR super fast. There are 2 reasons why I'm returning it: buzzing and eye fatigue. When I sit centered with the TV about 10-11ft back, the buzzing is pretty annoying even at moderate listening volumes. I can hear the buzzing and the audio at the same time, the buzzing is such a distinct pitch. If the buzzing is equal on the ST60, I still might keep it knowing I saved $1400. The eye fatigue is what really gets me. When I watch blu-rays in the dark, my eyes feel like they are straining to concentrate on the action, and I can feel them get squintier and squintier. After a while I realize I have no idea what is happening in the movie because all my attention has been directed on how fatigued my eyes get. I've never had this problem on LCDs, so maybe I just can't handle plasma flicker or whatever, I guess time will tell when my ST60 gets here...

edit: I might actually try the VT60 since it isn't as bright as the ST60 and has better 3D.

Sorry if this post doesn't help you lol

Hate to break it to you, but the ST60 is going to buzz just about the same. Actually, now that I have more time on my panel, its a tad quieter than the ST60 was after several hundred hours. But on bright content, both are equally buzzy. Why were your eyes straining? Have you thought to change your settings to something more pleasing? The ST60 won't be any better for you in that regard either. I personally feel exchanging the set for a VT60 when you already have a F8500 is kind of a waste, since you can calibrate the F8500 to put out less luminance if you wish. Why go through the trouble of packing everything up, paying a restock fee, and so on, for something you can change right now?
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Originally Posted by RodK View Post

yes all eco settings and cats are off. I have 3 huge windows in my living room. I was surprised that my old tv was brighter (both in custom mode and adjusted.) I am not too concerned with 3d or gaming that much. I am surprised to hear that the f8500 is the same brightness as the st60.

With reasonable settings they were equally as bright. I don't push the sets to their limits, the F8500 can get brighter but a reasonable setting they're pretty equivalent. I recall having the ST60 at around 55 contrast on mid panel brightness with was about 30 fL. Jacking it up higher started to strain my eyes, but it was capable of a very bright picture. The F8500 I have set to about 70 contrast with a cell light of 10, and it looks about the same. I also had it at 15 cell light and 55 contrast, and it was about equal, too. I haven't yet measured the F8500 but just from what I see and how my eyes feel, it's about on par when you aren't torching it.
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post #9 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Hate to break it to you, but the ST60 is going to buzz just about the same. Actually, now that I have more time on my panel, its a tad quieter than the ST60 was after several hundred hours. But on bright content, both are equally buzzy. Why were your eyes straining? Have you thought to change your settings to something more pleasing? The ST60 won't be any better for you in that regard either. I personally feel exchanging the set for a VT60 when you already have a F8500 is kind of a waste, since you can calibrate the F8500 to put out less luminance if you wish. Why go through the trouble of packing everything up, paying a restock fee, and so on, for something you can change right now?

I'm not sure there's a standard for buzzing. Most 8500 owners say theirs don't buzz from their listening spot, mine is huge.

Not sure why my eyes are straining. I've gone through every setting imaginable, from cell light 0 to 20, contrast 75 to 95, brightness 40 to 55, I've tried every setting, no difference. Maybe mine is defective, I don't know. But if the ST60 buzzes just as much, I might let it slide for the savings in money. If my eyes still strain I'll probably have to go back to LCD.

No trouble of packing up. BB will come out next Tuesday the 11th, pack up the 8500, and bring up the ST60. All for free and no restocking fee either. Really superb service from my local BB, including pricematching.

I'll be sure to give my impressions when it comes in the ST60 thread.

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post #10 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 06:14 PM
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^^^ Do you have the Black Optimizer turned on? If so, try it with it off and see if that helps your eye fatigue.

Samsung PN60F8500, Panasonic TH-42PD25U/P, Pioneer VSX-1018TXH-K, Oppo BDP-93, Aperion Audio 5T&5C, HSU STF-2, PS3, Wii, HTPC, SD Homerun Prime, Ceton Echo
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post #11 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

^^^ Do you have the Black Optimizer turned on? If so, try it with it off and see if that helps your eye fatigue.

Yes I have it set for Dark Room. I'll try off the next time I watch a blu-ray and report back, probably X-Men First Class tomorrow.

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post #12 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 07:36 PM
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I haven't noticed enough of a difference with black optimizer, and I don't think it changes the pic significantly enough to cause eye strain. Maybe the sharpness is too high and you're seeing an artificial looking picture? Or possibly, plasma just isn't for you. I used to have a LCD that killed my eyes, and I had thought CRT was bad lol. Maybe you should look into your viewing environment, perhaps some ambient lighting would help or in general, rearranging the lighting in your viewing room. I know from past experience that watching things in the dark or with odd lighting caused me a lot of eye strain and headaches.
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post #13 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

I haven't noticed enough of a difference with black optimizer, and I don't think it changes the pic significantly enough to cause eye strain. Maybe the sharpness is too high and you're seeing an artificial looking picture? Or possibly, plasma just isn't for you. I used to have a LCD that killed my eyes, and I had thought CRT was bad lol. Maybe you should look into your viewing environment, perhaps some ambient lighting would help or in general, rearranging the lighting in your viewing room. I know from past experience that watching things in the dark or with odd lighting caused me a lot of eye strain and headaches.

Yeah, I think I really need to get some bias lighting. I remember seeing some good ones in the ST60 or VT60 thread, can't remember, I'll need to search that again.

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post #14 of 25 Old 06-03-2013, 09:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I am going to go check out the f8500 again tomorrow and see if the can put it beside the st60. It was hard to see the differences when they were half a store apart.

p.s. edgeh20 - it sounds like you need a separate day and night setting.

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post #15 of 25 Old 06-04-2013, 02:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

I'm actually going to be doing the opposite. I'm going to BB today to return my 60F8500 and try out the 60ST60.

The F8500 has the best PQ I've seen so far, isn't reflective at all, gets plenty bright in sunlight, has an awesome remote, awesome smart suite, and gets rid of IR super fast. There are 2 reasons why I'm returning it: buzzing and eye fatigue. When I sit centered with the TV about 10-11ft back, the buzzing is pretty annoying even at moderate listening volumes. I can hear the buzzing and the audio at the same time, the buzzing is such a distinct pitch. If the buzzing is equal on the ST60, I still might keep it knowing I saved $1400. The eye fatigue is what really gets me. When I watch blu-rays in the dark, my eyes feel like they are straining to concentrate on the action, and I can feel them get squintier and squintier. After a while I realize I have no idea what is happening in the movie because all my attention has been directed on how fatigued my eyes get. I've never had this problem on LCDs, so maybe I just can't handle plasma flicker or whatever, I guess time will tell when my ST60 gets here...

edit: I might actually try the VT60 since it isn't as bright as the ST60 and has better 3D.

Sorry if this post doesn't help you lol

You wont get eye fatigue from the panny line for sure. The VT60 will put a smile on your face in a dark room
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post #16 of 25 Old 06-04-2013, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Well after having both the st60 and f8500 in my house today, I am surprised to say that the st60 went back to the store. Seeing as I had a Panny, I figured I would love the st60 but it did not love my room. For daytime viewing there was a significant difference between the 2 TV's. I never thought I would pay more money for a smaller screen, but for my room there was enough of a difference to justify the cost.

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post #17 of 25 Old 06-04-2013, 03:41 PM
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Rod, I'm not surprised at all. wink.gif

And you'll be very happy with the black levels too.
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post #18 of 25 Old 06-05-2013, 01:08 PM
 
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I am hearing from other forum members the blacks are crushed or not visually correct vs the VT/ZT is this true? Then why such a high score during the shootout for blacks?
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post #19 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

Hate to break it to you, but the ST60 is going to buzz just about the same.

Just got my ST60 today and wanted to state for the record that there is no buzz from my viewing position, whereas the F8500 buzz was like having a bug zapper right in front of me. Will post further impessions/issues in the ST60 thread...

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post #20 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 02:44 AM
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^ You must have had an unusually loud buzz as most 8500 owners are not reporting that at all.
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post #21 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by edgeh2o View Post

Just got my ST60 today and wanted to state for the record that there is no buzz from my viewing position, whereas the F8500 buzz was like having a bug zapper right in front of me. Will post further impessions/issues in the ST60 thread...

My F8500 has a strong buzz from a very small window on the bottom right hand side of the screen. Outside of this small window I can't hear any buzzing with mine. Your viewing position may have put you in that window, which I agree is a bad spot to be in.
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post #22 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by RodK View Post

Well after having both the st60 and f8500 in my house today, I am surprised to say that the st60 went back to the store. Seeing as I had a Panny, I figured I would love the st60 but it did not love my room. For daytime viewing there was a significant difference between the 2 TV's. I never thought I would pay more money for a smaller screen, but for my room there was enough of a difference to justify the cost.

We replaced our Panasonic PX80U in the family room with the F8500. I basically went the same route as you; we started off looking at the ST60 and then the VT60, being brand loyal. It wasn't until the local BB got the ST, VT, ZT and F8500 in that we could really see the difference between the sets. Once we saw them all lined up and played around with the settings it was apparent that the newer Panasonic models couldn't provide the same brightness, which wasn't really enough even on the old PX, in our bright family room. The F8500 really out-shined (pun intended) every one of the Panasonic plasmas. It has only been half of a week and we are loving the F8500, outside of the poor internal speakers.
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post #23 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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My f8500 has a pretty noticable buzz to it. It is definitely more and louder than the st60. My px77u had absolutely no buzz whatsoever.

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post #24 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 08:30 AM - Thread Starter
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If anyone wants to know, the f8500 speakers sound better than the st60 speakers. I do use the tv speakers for regular viewing- news etc, and when we had the st60 my wife even commented "well I guess we can use the receiver all the time". She was ok with the f8500 sound. FWIW the speakers on my old px77u were very good for tv speakers.

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post #25 of 25 Old 06-12-2013, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RodK View Post

If anyone wants to know, the f8500 speakers sound better than the st60 speakers. I do use the tv speakers for regular viewing- news etc, and when we had the st60 my wife even commented "well I guess we can use the receiver all the time". She was ok with the f8500 sound. FWIW the speakers on my old px77u were very good for tv speakers.

It is a shame that the TV speakers are taken a back seat even on the high-end systems. The VT60 has a nice set of speakers.

We use the TV speakers for casual viewing and only turn on the full sound system when needed, which unfortunately is turning out to be more often due to the poor internal speakers.
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