Rethinking my choice - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok i was all set to buy the Panny ST60 or VT60 but then I saw the SharpLc70Le650u on Paul tv site amd said wow 70" for under 2k. Yes i know it probably does not come close to the Panny i am thinking about. So i am really trying to decide if there is a tv that has very good PQ( close to the panny) in 65"+ . Me and my wife are not big movie buffs and all i really want is very good PQ. We dont care about 3d. Any opinions? Thanks

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post #2 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 12:46 PM
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do you watch in the dark? i'm sure the LED's will treat you just fine with ambient light, but for me, the uniformity issues are just too bad when watching in the dark. the only LED i would accept is one with very good local dimming, preferable full array.

are you replacing a tv that still works?

you might consider keeping that tv for casual use, and opting for a projector/screen combo for the real big screen experience when it's dark. a half decent projector and screen should run you about the same as the VT60. you'll need to spend a bit more to get plasma quality blacks and shadow detail though. maybe the 4k range

just food for thought

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post #3 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 01:01 PM
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In daytime viewing or well lit rooms you would probably be okay with the Sharp. It is a lower model Sharp and will not give you pq quality anywhere near the ST60 though. Also not sure how the Sharp will handle motion.

For nightime viewing with lights out I am sure the Sharp will just fall apart. Lim\ke mentioned before, you would need a TV with good local dimming to be able to watch dark scenes at night to really enjoy it. I have an Samsung es7500 LED wich has great dimming and with lights out it can look almost as good as a plasma. I also had some LG LED's that I tried and they could not be watched at night without being distracted by the terrible screen uniformity and that was even with local dimming.

With lights on or in bright rooms you usually won't see these short commings of lower end LED's but sometimes it still can peak it's head through if it is a lower end model.

There are some new Vizio M series LED TV's that are large and reasonaby priced that you might want to look at as well.

Again, no Vizio or these larger less expensive Sharps are going to come anywhere close to the ST60 or VT60 though.
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post #4 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys.....yeah most of the veiwong will be done at night and with lights low or off. The more i read the more the plasma is the way to go. So now its either the ST or VT.

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post #5 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horsegoer View Post

Thanks guys.....yeah most of the veiwong will be done at night and with lights low or off. The more i read the more the plasma is the way to go. So now its either the ST or VT.
Or look at the 65S64 from Costco or Sam's. No 3D but under $1,500 for a 65".
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post #6 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 01:58 PM - Thread Starter
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What are the major diff between ST60 and the s64? Thanks

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post #7 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by horsegoer View Post

What are the major diff between ST60 and the s64? Thanks
The S64 is a little step down from the ST60. It does use the same filter though so it can handle light well. It doe not have 3D. It also does not have 2500 field drive and I believe has less gradient levels. It also has less HDMI inputs. The blacks are suppose to be very good though. If you want bigger and do not care about 3d then this might be better for you. People who have them really seem to like it. You might want to read through some of the threads for the S64 as a lot of those guys were probably between this and the ST60.
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post #8 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

The S64 is a little step down from the ST60. It does use the same filter though so it can handle light well. It doe not have 3D. It also does not have 2500 field drive and I believe has less gradient levels. It also has less HDMI inputs. The blacks are suppose to be very good though. If you want bigger and do not care about 3d then this might be better for you. People who have them really seem to like it. You might want to read through some of the threads for the S64 as a lot of those guys were probably between this and the ST60.

Thanks a lot!!....no smart features either.
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post #9 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 04:01 PM
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Thanks a lot!!....no smart features either.
I didn't realize it did not have smart features? It does have WiFi.
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post #10 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 04:03 PM
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Also it doesn't have as good of calibration controls. Pretty simple concept, pay for a lower end product and get a lower end experience


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post #11 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 04:17 PM
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Also it doesn't have as good of calibration controls. Pretty simple concept, pay for a lower end product and get a lower end experience

People are getting good cal with it anyway, the 2 point controls work (where as the 10 point ones are wonky and take a lot of back and forth) plus it has the same exact CMS controls as the ST60. So really boils down to no 3D, no smart features, and 48 Hz for movie content vs 96 on the ST60. If you aren't a movie buff you won't care about 48 Hz anyway and it should be just fine.

2500 FFD isn't all that big of a deal. All it does is increase gradients on static images, as soon as something moves, it dithers around the moving objects. So the gradients is pretty much marketing BS because you only see it if you're looking at something static, and on the ST60 I can't recommend keeping a static image on it for periods at a time. It does get stubborn IR that takes a bit of effort to clear up.
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post #12 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 06:19 PM
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You can't just disregard the 10pt controls because they're wonky... you can still get a better calibration from the 10pt vs 2pt. Whether it's worth it or not is another question. Of course this only has any relevance if you're calibrating it. Since I calibrate my displays, I wouldn't settle for anything less than the ST60 if I were buying now.
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post #13 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 07:44 PM
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I'm not disregarding it, I'm just saying that it probably causes more problems than it's worth. D-Nice mentioned how it was a PITA to calibrate it using 10 point on the 13 models, especially in comparison to his VT50. He said this on the first day of the shoot out, and if it's a PITA for him imagine trying to do it yourself. So, it may just be better to stick with 2 point control in this matter.
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post #14 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 08:01 PM
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I understand what you meant, but it just seemed like you were disregarding this feature completely.

The 10pt controls are wonky because they make it extremely difficult to get the white balance perfect, but it should improve on using the 2pt controls alone. It was the same thing on the 2011 models. I know how much of a PITA wonky 10pt controls are, but unless it makes things worse (which is unlikely), you still use the 10pt controls if they are available. Whether this feature is worth it or not is up for debate, but it definitely gives the ST60 an advantage if you're calibrating it.
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post #15 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by horsegoer View Post

What are the major diff between ST60 and the s64? Thanks

The S64 is an S60 but adds the AR Louver Filter that comes on the ST60/VT60. But aside from that AR Filter, the S64 is the exact same as the S60. The differences between the S60/S64 and ST60 discussed in the S60 thread. The biggest difference is the ST60 has a better plasma panel and overall better PQ.

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post #16 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

48 Hz for movie content vs 96 on the ST60. If you aren't a movie buff you won't care about 48 Hz anyway and it should be just fine.

Could you explain this just a little more?
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post #17 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 10:10 PM
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48Hz and 96Hz are modes specifically for film (24p). They essentially allow film to refresh evenly and play at its native framerate. Since 60 is not a multiple of 24, a conversion called 3:2 pulldown needs to be done to play properly which can cause motion judder. 48Hz is and always will be useless because the refresh rate is too low and it has significant flickering. 96Hz was previously reserved for flagship models but Panasonic has included it in the ST series for the first time. That along with the 10pt white balance and (limited) CMS make the ST60 an incredible value.
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post #18 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 10:49 PM
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48 Hz kinda reminds me of a real projector from back in the days. Kinda a nice effect in a way. But most people will be turned off by the flickering, it's mostly noticeable in bright content.
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post #19 of 20 Old 06-03-2013, 11:22 PM
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I saw an 80 inch Sharp at Best Buy when I looked at TVs. They had the TRON : Legacy blu ray playing, one that I am very familiar with. In all honesty, I thought it looked like ass.

On a side note, I saw the 5 figure 4K LG at Video Only showing the ESPN feed, and I thought that set looked horrible too. I really believe with the exception of a very few Sony or Sharp Elite sets, a 65 inch plasma is the way to go even at a loss of the extra few inches on the other sets.

+1 for the guy who mentioned the projector option. That's my ultimate goal when I have a room for it.

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post #20 of 20 Old 06-04-2013, 01:00 AM
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I just got a 65" zt60, make no doubt about it my projector and 120" screen cannot be matched, but at least I have a nice TV to complement it.
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