Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings? - Page 15 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #421 of 1219 Old 08-03-2014, 12:41 PM
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Ted ,

Thanks for the additional info
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post #422 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 08:06 AM
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I was playing around with the TV Gamma setting last night to see how useful it would be to offset ambient light in daylight viewing. After re-running grayscale measurements with Gamma modifications in the TV menu, I have to say that I am very pleased with the TV Gamma control. For those who are curious, a +1 increment in Gamma, results in a -0.1 modification in the overall Gamma curve. So, if you are calibrated close to Gamma 2.22 (Movie mode, Warm2, Gamma -1, Cell light 20, Contrast 95, Brightness ~47-48 on B spec tvs) adding +1 to Gamma to bring it to 0 will result in an overall Gamma of 2.12.

It works very well and pushes the entire gamma curve uniformly without any weird distortions in the gamma curve. So my recommendation would be to calibrate your set for dark viewing and then to use the Gamma control on the TV to adjust for brighter viewing conditions (by increasing the TV Gamma...which results in an overall lower gamma number). I did notice some black level clipping when lowering TV Gamma (raising overall gamma), so my suggestion would be to do your initial calibration for the highest overall Gamma you would want in dark room viewing (2.2-2.3 typically). Then use the TV Gamma control to adjust gamma for daylight viewing.
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Last edited by orion2001; 08-04-2014 at 09:28 AM.
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post #423 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 08:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Then use the TV Gamma control to adjust gamma for daylight viewing.
Yup.
All About Gamma

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #424 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Yeah, the point I wanted to mention though was that the TV gamma setting on *this* set works well without introducing any artifacts to the overall gamma response. So it is safe to use the TV Gamma setting if you care about PQ and still want an easy way to adjust gamma rather than having to try different calibrations for both.

That being said, typically your color tracking changes with modified gamma as the target points are related to target gamma. That is unfortunately something you can't do too much about with this set. From my experimenting with this set, it is set up to track saturation levels close to gamma of ~2.15-2.3. If you move outside of those levels, then the saturation/color targets move pretty far from what the display can reach.
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post #425 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
So it is safe to use the TV Gamma setting if you care about PQ and still want an easy way to adjust gamma rather than having to try different calibrations for both.
Thanks for the tip ... useful information for one who has no calibration equipment.

Last edited by Nikwasi; 08-04-2014 at 10:55 AM.
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post #426 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Performed my last wave of calibration on this set today. I'm not planning on tweaking anything else --- I've spent way too much time on this already.

I went with BT1886 gamma curve, which I think pulls up the shadow details nicely. I'm sticking with it on all my displays. I also focused on pulling in the lower saturation points (which encompass the majority of content) instead of solely on the 100% points.

Results:











Before (there's a few funky free measure points that HCFR stuck in there, but you can see how everything is under saturated in everything but the 100% points):


After:


Settings:

Picture Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 47
Sharpness: 5
Color: 50
Tint: G50 / R50

Under "Advanced Settings"

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color Space: Custom
Gamma: -1

Color Space Settings (RGB):
Red 44, 4, 2
Green 20, 53, 6
Blue 4, 0, 60
Yellow 50, 56, 6
Cyan 27, 50, 51
Magenta 43, 6, 51

Under "Picture Options"

Color Tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI Black Level (greyed out): Low
Film Mode (greyed out): Off (I do use Cinema Smooth, option is available when viewing 24p)
Black Optimizer: Dark Room

2pt White Balance
R-Offset +9
G-Offset +14
B-offset +16
R-Gain +3
G-Gain -7
B-Gain +3

10pt White Balance

10% +14, +43, +38
20% -13, +3, -10
30% -6, -6, -11
40% -15, -16, -17
50% 0, -3, 0
60% -17, -19, -19
70% +2, -9, -6
80% -6, -8, -2
90% +2, -10, -9
100% +10, -6, -3

A few tips for others calibrating this set

If you're using non-contact mode (my meter was positioned about an inch away from the screen to stabilize readings) the blue adjustment window at the bottom of the screen will throw off your measurements. For me, this meant looking at the reading and going back through the entire menu to make an adjustment. Extremely tedious but necessary.

Focus on the lower saturation points when calibrating color. Red in particular is very under saturated. It becomes a balancing act of pushing the 100% towards over saturation to pull the lower sat. points up. In real world viewing it makes a visible difference. Colors "pop" much more and skin tones look like they should.

Black level dithering appears to consistently disappear on these sets at brightness level 47. Get up close and toggle between brightness 47 and 48 - watching for 'dancing green pixels'. I've seen the same said for F8500 panels.

Use the 2pt white balance to do the "heavy lifting" then fine tune with the 10pt. I could not achieve bt 1886 without it, particularly brightening up the 10% grey point.

P.S.: I tried out the auto pattern feature built into HCFR (by choosing display patterns in this initial setup), my computer isn't configured correctly for that so of course everything came out whacky - but you guys using HTPC and/or auto pattern generation have it MADE!

Is this specific to the 60F5300 or the 51F5300 (A or B)?

Looking for the best settings for the 51F5300B.

New - Samsung 51F5300B / Old - Hitachi 42HDS69 w/ firmware v120
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post #427 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 01:20 PM
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It's actually specific to HIS SET.
That is the whole point to a real calibration.
You're welcome to try whatever settings you come across, but they won't necessarily be good.
But at least you can't break anything.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #428 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
It's actually specific to HIS SET.
That is the whole point to a real calibration.
You're welcome to try whatever settings you come across, but they won't necessarily be good.
But at least you can't break anything.
Undestood but if he has the same set I do it's more likely to be somewhat relevant. Just looking for a good starting point.

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post #429 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWBadger View Post
Undestood but if he has the same set I do it's more likely to be somewhat relevant. Just looking for a good starting point.
I've never calibrated a 51" F5300, but I have calibrated two 60" F5300's B versions that performed very similar. Those settings are for the PN60F5300 B Version.

I think most people are aware of the "risks" of using calibrated settings that apply to a set other than their own. I share them so others who have calibrated can compare - and for those who don't have a meter that wish to "give it a whirl". From what I could tell from my stock readings of both the PN60F5300 sets I calibrated I think there's a good chance that shared settings could help.

Last edited by RyanHomsey; 08-04-2014 at 03:09 PM.
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post #430 of 1219 Old 08-04-2014, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Sure thing.

Standard mode, Black optimizer off

Notes:
Target Gamma 2.22 Black Compensated (Use Measured Gamma unchecked)

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 0
Color: 44
Tint: G50/R50

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit

PIP: Off

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Dark
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: DISABLED
Gamma: -1
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
R 41 5 3
G 22 49 3
B 2 4 47
Y 50 50 6
C 27 50 50
M 39 7 49
White balance submenu:
2 Point
R-Offset: 8
G-Offset: 13
B-Offset: 15
R-Gain: 12
G-Gain: 6
B-Gain: -3

10p White Balance submenu:
10p White Balance: DISABLED

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Low
Film mode: Off
Black optimizer: Off
Are these standard mode settings? I noticed you used Mode: Movie.
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post #431 of 1219 Old 08-05-2014, 06:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leonkennedy View Post
Are these standard mode settings? I noticed you used Mode: Movie.
Nope, they are Movie mode. This gives you ~ 35fL max brightness. Standard mode in my experience does not calibrate as well as Movie mode, but it is brighter. I prefer to use the calibrated Movie mode settings and just change to Standard for daytime/bright light viewing. It isn't as accurate, but things don't change too drastically. I revert back to Movie mode for dim/lights-out viewing.
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post #432 of 1219 Old 08-05-2014, 07:55 AM
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What's this about "dancing green pixels"? I notice them up close but from viewing distance they are unnoticeable so I thought they were to prevent burn-in or something.
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post #433 of 1219 Old 08-06-2014, 01:34 AM
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I watch in a dark room but I'm still not a fan of gamma at -1. It crushes too much dark detail. 0 looks the best to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
What's this about "dancing green pixels"? I notice them up close but from viewing distance they are unnoticeable so I thought they were to prevent burn-in or something.
Plasma dithering, nothing you can do about it.
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post #434 of 1219 Old 08-06-2014, 11:48 AM
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New 5350

Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Completely agree with you on that. Copying settings doesn't give you a calibrated sets. It just may give you a more pleasing picture, but ultimately the viewer will need to be the judge of whether they like the resulting PQ or not.


This is of course true, but the way I look at it is that for someone who doesn't own a meter and doesn't plan on investing in one, the best yardstick is whether the PQ looks great to them, not whether it is truly calibrated. If someones settings looks better than the factory settings, then there shouldn't be any reason not to use it. Since the shared settings are all reversible, it doesn't hurt to try them and to see if the resulting PQ is pleasing or feels better than the defaults. For example, I tried Will's settings from the 1st page on my B spec model and the resulting PQ was pretty horrible and washed out (likely due to the large difference between A and B spec models). So I reverted back to the defaults. With my last TV, I used settings from CNET and it looked much more pleasing than the default Cinema mode so I stuck with those settings. Of course, I made sure I wasn't crushing blacks, etc, so some amount of common sense is still required . For this TV though, I do think the best option is to stick with Movie Mode, Auto Color Space, Warm2, Gamma -1, Contrast around 95, Cell Light at 20 and Brightness around 48-50 (set according to ambient lighting and black level test).

As a one day old owner of one of these and being a noob having no skill or experience in calibrating; I have a few questions;
1) With these as i understand it, we are playing the lottery on whether you get the pink haze at the bottom of the screen or not; what causes this and why is it only at the bottom and not the top or sides?
2) Is returning it back to the store until you get one that doesn't make sense? If it is from the same store, isn't it theoretically out of the same 'batch' and therefore would probably have the same issue?
3) If i do have the tint, can it be calibrated out or minimized almost out?
4) Is it still a good idea to break in these panels with 100 hours or so of the full resolution color tile slideshow? If so, does that help at all with the pink haze or is that just to break it in and make sure you are calibrating from a fairly steady state? Can i use the same slide show i have form braking in my Panny G50 in 2009/10?
5) what settings should i change to get me by until it is calibrated, i see the few from Orion above, any others? I tried using Wills settings, but i think if i understood some of the other threads and articles, that is a lottery as well because each panel is different and the components in your system will affect your output?

Finally any of you 'hobbyist' live in the North King/South Snohomish (Bothell, WA) area and want a panel to play with? If not, who would you recommend i use for the best value for calibration in this area? I'm not a videophile like some of you, so having the very best guy/gal is not imperative.

Thanks in advance

Brent
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post #435 of 1219 Old 08-06-2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
Performed my last wave of calibration on this set today. I'm not planning on tweaking anything else --- I've spent way too much time on this already.
Experimenting, I applied your calibration to my 51F53000B and found that it alleviates the "orange" bias that Warm2 imparts to skin tones. Warm1 usually looks too pink, to me, while Warm2 tilts orange/green. I think the "cure" lies in your 2 point White Balance. Am I making any sense here? Obviously I am more/less a novice without calibration equipment.

Last edited by Nikwasi; 08-06-2014 at 12:17 PM.
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post #436 of 1219 Old 08-06-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by crakarjax View Post
What's this about "dancing green pixels"? I notice them up close but from viewing distance they are unnoticeable so I thought they were to prevent burn-in or something.
What's your brightness set to? If you're seeing the green pixels on an area that is pure black I'd venture to guess brightness is set a hair too high. In my experience moving it down to 47 eliminates the black level dithering. I've seen others mention the same number for their panels, including the F8500, which seems to indicate it's pretty consistent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuck16 View Post
As a one day old owner of one of these and being a noob having no skill or experience in calibrating; I have a few questions;
1) With these as i understand it, we are playing the lottery on whether you get the pink haze at the bottom of the screen or not; what causes this and why is it only at the bottom and not the top or sides?
2) Is returning it back to the store until you get one that doesn't make sense? If it is from the same store, isn't it theoretically out of the same 'batch' and therefore would probably have the same issue?
3) If i do have the tint, can it be calibrated out or minimized almost out?
4) Is it still a good idea to break in these panels with 100 hours or so of the full resolution color tile slideshow? If so, does that help at all with the pink haze or is that just to break it in and make sure you are calibrating from a fairly steady state? Can i use the same slide show i have form braking in my Panny G50 in 2009/10?
5) what settings should i change to get me by until it is calibrated, i see the few from Orion above, any others? I tried using Wills settings, but i think if i understood some of the other threads and articles, that is a lottery as well because each panel is different and the components in your system will affect your output?
Brent
1. I've yet to see anyone who has purchased an F5300 60 inch that was manufactured recently that does not have at least some degree of pink tint. Some are worse than others. I returned my first set. The second one does not have nearly as much of a tint problem, but enough that it still bugs me on occasion.

2. The "batch" theory makes sense, which is why I returned my set and tried a warehouse version (slightly different model number F5300 vs F5350, but they are the same).

3. It cannot be calibrated out.

4. Plasma "break in" is not universally agreed upon. Some believe it's necessary while others believe it's a waste of panel life and electricity. I personally did not implement any break in procedure with my set and have not noticed any sort of burn in - even when dealing with static test patterns for hours of calibration (at full brightness settings no less). If you want to play it as safe as possible it may be beneficial to run slides to get the set through it's potentially most susceptible burn in period at the beginning of it's lifespan.

5. Personally, I'd put it in movie mode, warm2, gamma -1, contrast 95, brightness 47 and leave all the advanced white balance/color settings alone. Double check that brightness/contrast are set properly with white/black clipping patterns on a test disc (such as the free AVS calibration disc available in these forums).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikwasi View Post
Experimenting, I applied your calibration to my 51F53000B and found that it alleviates the "orange" bias that Warm2 imparts to skin tones. Warm1 usually looks too pink, to me, while Warm2 tilts orange/green. I think the "cure" lies in your 2 point White Balance. Am I making any sense here? Obviously I am more/less a novice without calibration equipment.
The 2 point white balance does the "heavy lifting" of the greyscale calibration. If the 51 inch tracks gamma similarly to the 60 inch versions, there's a good chance it will help with depth. Regarding balance of RGB, it's possible the greyscale calibration is tracking similarly with your set and getting it closer to D65 (neutral white)... it's also possible it's pushing too much blue, giving you the impression that it is alleviating the excessive orange apparent in the stock settings. It's all speculation really. Bottom line is, if you don't have a meter and wish to try others settings you just have to eyeball it.
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post #437 of 1219 Old 08-07-2014, 01:26 PM
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Just purchased this TV at Costco this morning. Will set it up this evening just in time for some preseason football. I'll post my initial impressions of the set later. I'm sure I will not be disappointed!

UPDATE:
Just set it up and all I can say is WOW! The colors and picture instantly blew me away and that's just using basic set up without any calibration yet. Just FYI, I returned a Vizio M60 2014 tv for this and the difference is night and day! Will post back once it settles in and I plug in the proper calibration settings.

Last edited by ArmandoRene; 08-08-2014 at 12:42 AM. Reason: UPDATE
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post #438 of 1219 Old 08-07-2014, 02:05 PM
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Just purchased this TV at Costco this morning. Will set it up this evening just in time for some preseason football. I'll post my initial impressions of the set later. I'm sure I will not be disappointed!

Got mine today from Costco today. Picture seems quite dark out of the box.

I only have a few minutes on the TV. Is it ok to set the calibration to one of the recommended here? Saw something where you need 200 hours of burn-in?
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post #439 of 1219 Old 08-07-2014, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by djb5f View Post
Got mine today from Costco today. Picture seems quite dark out of the box.

I only have a few minutes on the TV. Is it ok to set the calibration to one of the recommended here? Saw something where you need 200 hours of burn-in?
I'd suggest Brightness 47 or 48, Movie mode, Warm2, Blackroom optimizer: Dark, Gamma -1, Contrast 95 and Cell light 20. See how you like that as a baseline before you go applying other settings posted here.

You should be fine to use these settings right away, just be careful not to have letterboxed content or channels with logos on the screen for long periods without changing things up. I'd also recommend leaving the Scrolling bar running overnight for a couple of nights to add on some hours to the panel.
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post #440 of 1219 Old 08-08-2014, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I'd suggest Brightness 47 or 48, Movie mode, Warm2, Blackroom optimizer: Dark, Gamma -1, Contrast 95 and Cell light 20. See how you like that as a baseline before you go applying other settings posted here.

You should be fine to use these settings right away, just be careful not to have letterboxed content or channels with logos on the screen for long periods without changing things up. I'd also recommend leaving the Scrolling bar running overnight for a couple of nights to add on some hours to the panel.
I know that Warm2 is usually the standard but for this set I've seen many say that Warm1 is better, and indeed Warm2 seems to make things... greenish, which I've seen others list as the reason Warm1 is the way to go. It looks better to me.

(Unless the 60" is different; I have the 51.)
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post #441 of 1219 Old 08-08-2014, 09:29 PM
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I hate warm1, still too blue/cool.
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post #442 of 1219 Old 08-08-2014, 09:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarvisKong View Post
I know that Warm2 is usually the standard but for this set I've seen many say that Warm1 is better, and indeed Warm2 seems to make things... greenish, which I've seen others list as the reason Warm1 is the way to go. It looks better to me.

(Unless the 60" is different; I have the 51.)
Not sure about the 51, but I think most folks with meters seem to find that Warm2 is closest to D65 and this is what I have found as well. Warm1 is too blue. For those who are used to that kind of colorbalance, it can take some getting used to Warm2 which is a bit yellowish. Not to say that Warm2 is going to be perfect out of the box on all sets, but it gets you closest to the target whitebalance.
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post #443 of 1219 Old 08-08-2014, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Not sure about the 51, but I think most folks with meters seem to find that Warm2 is closest to D65 and this is what I have found as well. Warm1 is too blue. For those who are used to that kind of colorbalance, it can take some getting used to Warm2 which is a bit yellowish. Not to say that Warm2 is going to be perfect out of the box on all sets, but it gets you closest to the target whitebalance.
As someone who used to only use "normal" color temperature, I can agree with this completely. I gave warm a chance on my older Panasonic and never looked back. "Normal" looks hilariously blue now, I don't know how I ever thought that looked good before.
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post #444 of 1219 Old 08-10-2014, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I'd suggest Brightness 47 or 48, Movie mode, Warm2, Blackroom optimizer: Dark, Gamma -1, Contrast 95 and Cell light 20. See how you like that as a baseline before you go applying other settings posted here.

You should be fine to use these settings right away, just be careful not to have letterboxed content or channels with logos on the screen for long periods without changing things up. I'd also recommend leaving the Scrolling bar running overnight for a couple of nights to add on some hours to the panel.
Thanks. I am trying just the basic settings as I get used to it. Great picture but I can tell it could use some calibration tweaks, just not sure what yet.

What about color space? I had set as custom and moved every color to a recommended calibrated poster (and did white balances too) but wasn't happy with it but reset except the core options you recommended.

But for color space, with the core options you mentioned, should it be auto, native, or custom (out of the box custom)? I paused a football game the other day and thought maybe the auto and custom made the field look too washed out and the native made it pop. Not sure about other programming yet.
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post #445 of 1219 Old 08-11-2014, 02:26 AM
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At the default movie settings, warm2, (no white balance adjustment) does gamma at -1 produce ~2.4? I had been using gamma at 0, but I was watching The Leftovers tonight and a few scenes looked washed out. I changed gamma to -1 and it looked a lot more pleasing to my eyes. I usually target gamma at 2.2 but I've found that gamma at 0, although it gives more shadow detail, also washes out the picture a bit and makes black levels appear higher than they really are.
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post #446 of 1219 Old 08-11-2014, 06:55 AM
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In my experience with my set, Movie mode with gamma at -1 gets close to 2.22. Gamma of -2 will get you close to 2.3. Just make sure you aren't clipping level 1/17 black when lowering gamma.
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post #447 of 1219 Old 08-11-2014, 07:04 AM
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Interesting. I guess gamma at 0 must be 2.1 or even lower and why it looks washed out.
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post #448 of 1219 Old 08-11-2014, 10:50 AM
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I forget exactly but Gamma 0 was around 2.15 or so on Movie mode. On Standard mode, Gamma 0 is more like 2.0 as it seems more geared towards bright, daylight viewing.
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post #449 of 1219 Old 08-11-2014, 04:21 PM
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I think I'm finally done calibrating (for real...I promise!)

Just wanted to post to say how awesome I think this TV is! I resolved some discrepancies with my previous calibration and visual results when viewing movies using MPC-HC+madVR. As it turns out, I should have been using madVR test patterns via HCFR for my calibrations rather than the internal pattern generator since I view all my movies using MPC-HC+madVR. Now that I am familiar with the set, the calibration results were spectacular! I think a lot of people have to spend on a lot of extra gizmos to get calibration results that look this good.

I've ended up calibrating to BT.1886 as I like the resulting look. I've been able to achieve 35fL luminance for 100% white and 0.002fL black levels (probably due to my voltage tweaks) for an amazing contrast ratio of ~17,500. Standard mode with 2pt calibration also looks quite good with a lower gamma which works well for Day viewing.









CIE Chart looks spectacular after calibration


Saturation luminance tracks well. A bit lower luminance at 100% saturation...


...which is okay since the 100% saturation colors are slightly oversaturated


Everything looks fantastic now. I'm not sharing the settings for this calibration as it is specific to my HTPC + MadVR setup, especially since I am using custom levels (1-255) as level 0 and level 1 have practically the same intensity on my set (most likely an issue of the HD4000 gpu rather than the TV as no one else seems to be clipping level 17 black using their blu-ray players on this set). This custom level setting allows me to distinguish all black levels above 16 clearly.
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post #450 of 1219 Old 08-12-2014, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I've ended up calibrating to BT.1886 as I like the resulting look. I've been able to achieve 35fL luminance for 100% white and 0.002fL black levels (probably due to my voltage tweaks) for an amazing contrast ratio of ~17,500. Standard mode with 2pt calibration also looks quite good with a lower gamma which works well for Day viewing.
Incredible calibration! Almost all the color checker points are spot on. Within the limits of the meter - I don't think that panel could get any more accurate, aside from running LUT Cube calibration/color processing,

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