Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings? - Page 20 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #571 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm curious, to those owners of this set who have calibrated it with a D3/C6/i1 Display Pro/ColorMunki Display (basically D3 family of meters) what kind of black level numbers did you get? (both A and B models, without voltage tweaks or other mods)

Mine goes no lower than 0.005 fL with Cinema Smooth off, 1080/60p signal. And I have the C6 meter.
I assume that this is with Black Optimizer turned on? Also, have you made sure to lower your brightness enough to get rid of the slight green dithering haze on pure black screens? Usually, you can do so without clipping out level 17 black.

With my voltage tweak, I measure around 0.002 fL with CS On or Off (stays the same) @ 24p (don't know if it changes at 60p). Unfortunately I don't have measurements from prior to the voltage tweak. I think 0.005 sounds like the right ballpark.
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post #572 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 10:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
I assume that this is with Black Optimizer turned on? Also, have you made sure to lower your brightness enough to get rid of the slight green dithering haze on pure black screens? Usually, you can do so without clipping out level 17 black.

With my voltage tweak, I measure around 0.002 fL with CS On or Off (stays the same) @ 24p (don't know if it changes at 60p). Unfortunately I don't have measurements from prior to the voltage tweak. I think 0.005 sounds like the right ballpark.
yes, set to Dark Room

my brightness is set so that 1 click lower clips 17 entirely

I'm just curious whether everyone with models newer than mine is getting around 0.005 fL or whether anyone is getting numbers significantly higher or lower. Doesn't seem to be too much info about the matter, which is why I asked.

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post #573 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
yes, set to Dark Room

my brightness is set so that 1 click lower clips 17 entirely

I'm just curious whether everyone with models newer than mine is getting around 0.005 fL or whether anyone is getting numbers significantly higher or lower. Doesn't seem to be too much info about the matter, which is why I asked.
My i1 display pro reads .01fl when I measure 0% black.......I don't know if I am doing something wrong or if my meter can't read that low and your guy's can. I am hoping this set is blacker than .01.
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post #574 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 02:46 PM
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That's about what mine is. I don't have a pitch black room, so I think it's fine.
I think the level of grays is more important than absolute black, anyway.
I use the black and white beginning of Casino Royale as my test scene.
Michael

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post #575 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
I don't know if I am doing something wrong or if my meter can't read that low and your guy's can.
They can't. Don't lose sleep over it.

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post #576 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
My i1 display pro reads .01fl when I measure 0% black.......I don't know if I am doing something wrong or if my meter can't read that low and your guy's can. I am hoping this set is blacker than .01.
does your calibration software report 4 decimal places (or three for that matter)?

are you saying you get a .0100 reading?

the i1 display pro and the C6 are both essentially the same, part of D3 meter family... so the meter can read well below .01 fL (I think down to 0.001 fL)

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post #577 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
does your calibration software report 4 decimal places (or three for that matter)?

are you saying you get a .0100 reading?

the i1 display pro and the C6 are both essentially the same, part of D3 meter family... so the meter can read well below .01 fL (I think down to 0.001 fL)
I have never gotten mine to read down to even .009 or anything. Am I measuring wrong?
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post #578 of 1420 Old 08-18-2014, 08:25 PM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
I have never gotten mine to read down to even .009 or anything. Am I measuring wrong?
is the reading you're getting reported in fL or cdm and do you have black optimizer set to dark room on the TV?

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post #579 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
is the reading you're getting reported in fL or cdm and do you have black optimizer set to dark room on the TV?
fL.......I don't even know how to get it to read in cdm........haha. I am a self taught calibrater so if you could guide me on how to get decent black readings that would be great! Is anyone else getting below .01 with i1 Display Pro?
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post #580 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
fL.......I don't even know how to get it to read in cdm........haha. I am a self taught calibrater so if you could guide me on how to get decent black readings that would be great! Is anyone else getting below .01 with i1 Display Pro?
What calibration software are you using?

You should definitely be reading lower than .01 FTL with your i1 Display Pro (aka i1d3). That's edgelit LCD territory.

My meter does not read that low (i1 display LT aka i1d2), I manually enter my black level in at the generally reported average MLL, which is about .005 FTL. You need an accurate black reading in order for the software to generate proper luminance targets that follow the recommended bt1886 gamma spec.
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post #581 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
What calibration software are you using?

You should definitely be reading lower than .01 FTL with your i1 Display Pro (aka i1d3). That's edgelit LCD territory.

My meter does not read that low (i1 display LT aka i1d2), I manually enter my black level in at the generally reported average MLL, which is about .005 FTL. You need an accurate black reading in order for the software to generate proper luminance targets that follow the recommended bt1886 gamma spec.
I use Calman 5 which is supposed to be really good software.........I can probably try to manually enter it. What does it do different exactly if you manually enter it? How do I measure in cdm also?
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post #582 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 07:04 AM
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I use Calman 5 which is supposed to be really good software.........I can probably try to manually enter it. What does it do different exactly if you manually enter it? How do I measure in cdm also?
If, for some reason, your meter is getting an improper black level reading you have to manually enter it. The sole purpose of doing so is for bt 1886 gamma, which determines the gamma curve based upon black level. If one is aiming for a flat (power law) gamma, it doesn't matter, as it does not change based upon measured black level. Bt1886 is the recommended spec but some still prefer power law with plasmas. I like BT 1886 because it brings in more shadow detail without introducing artifacts attributed to low gamma (too bright).

I'm not familiar with either of the commercial calibration software options (namely calman and spectracal) so I can't really help there, sorry. From looking at a few quick screenshots it appears in most menus there is x,y (tint+saturation) and fL, cd/m (luminance) listed. Upper case "Y" is also luminance.
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post #583 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by RyanHomsey View Post
If, for some reason, your meter is getting an improper black level reading you have to manually enter it. The sole purpose of doing so is for bt 1886 gamma, which determines the gamma curve based upon black level. If one is aiming for a flat (power law) gamma, it doesn't matter, as it does not change based upon measured black level. Bt1886 is the recommended spec but some still prefer power law with plasmas. I like BT 1886 because it brings in more shadow detail without introducing artifacts attributed to low gamma (too bright).

I'm not familiar with either of the commercial calibration software options (namely calman and spectracal) so I can't really help there, sorry. From looking at a few quick screenshots it appears in most menus there is x,y (tint+saturation) and fL, cd/m (luminance) listed. Upper case "Y" is also luminance.
you can also have a black offset with power gamma (though it's fairly minor compared to BT.1886)

or you can do what I did with 'sliding power' gamma, which is really just BT.1886 but you can change the exponent from 2.4 to whatever you want (I used 2.24)... though this feature is only in the most recent versions of CalMAN 5 as far as I know

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post #584 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 03:43 PM
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I found out how to get the readings in cdm........I went to an ANSI Checkerboard pattern and got .05 cd/m for 0% and 76.3 cd/m for 100%........for fL I get .01 fL for 0% and 34.53 for 100%. My meter must not be able to get any lower...........oh well.
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post #585 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by beardontwalk123 View Post
My i1 display pro reads .01fl when I measure 0% black.......I don't know if I am doing something wrong or if my meter can't read that low and your guy's can. I am hoping this set is blacker than .01.
Are you measuring in pitch black conditions? What is your brightness and gamma set to? I assume you have Black Optimizer turned on?
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They can't. Don't lose sleep over it.
That isn't really true. Plenty of folks use the i1d3 to measure F8500 sets down to ~0.002 fL. My measurements of black levels in pitch black condition are always extremely consistent and in the 0.002 - 0.005 fL range depending on settings. Any capable software using adaptive integration (Argyll/Calman) should provide consistent measurements for black levels. Usually, it is recommended with weaker colorimeters to use your eye for color errors, but luminance measurements are still quite accurate.
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post #586 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 09:06 PM
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Are you measuring in pitch black conditions? What is your brightness and gamma set to? I assume you have Black Optimizer turned on?

That isn't really true. Plenty of folks use the i1d3 to measure F8500 sets down to ~0.002 fL. My measurements of black levels in pitch black condition are always extremely consistent and in the 0.002 - 0.005 fL range depending on settings. Any capable software using adaptive integration (Argyll/Calman) should provide consistent measurements for black levels. Usually, it is recommended with weaker colorimeters to use your eye for color errors, but luminance measurements are still quite accurate.
I believe my brightness is set to 41 with Cinema Smooth on and Black optimizer is set to Dark room with gamma at -2 because it was the closest to 6500.
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post #587 of 1420 Old 08-19-2014, 09:20 PM
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I believe my brightness is set to 41 with Cinema Smooth on and Black optimizer is set to Dark room with gamma at -2 because it was the closest to 6500.
Are you sure you aren't crushing blacks with those settings? Try viewing a standard black clipping pattern with bars for Black levels 16 thru 30 or so. You should be able to clearly distinguish level 17 from 16 in a dark room. Your numbers seem low both in terms of brightness and gamma. Btw, I also don't see what brightness and gamma on TV have to do with hitting 6500K color temperature?
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post #588 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Are you sure you aren't crushing blacks with those settings? Try viewing a standard black clipping pattern with bars for Black levels 16 thru 30 or so. You should be able to clearly distinguish level 17 from 16 in a dark room. Your numbers seem low both in terms of brightness and gamma. Btw, I also don't see what brightness and gamma on TV have to do with hitting 6500K color temperature?
Haha.....sorry about that. It is the warm 2 setting that gets my color temp closest. -2 gets my gamma closest to 2.4 which is the new standard with Calman. 41 does seem low for brightness......I used to use the ramp with 17 needing to be barely visible but I just bought a new disc (spears and munsil 2nd edition) that has new and updated patterns and that have the 4 bars and the 2 on the right needing to be barely visible which 41 was in a completely dark room. I use the new disc to calibrate everything including metered patterns.

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post #589 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by orion2001 View Post
Plenty of folks use the i1d3 to measure F8500 sets down to ~0.002 fL. My measurements of black levels in pitch black condition are always extremely consistent and in the 0.002 - 0.005 fL range depending on settings. Any capable software using adaptive integration (Argyll/Calman) should provide consistent measurements for black levels. Usually, it is recommended with weaker colorimeters to use your eye for color errors, but luminance measurements are still quite accurate.
I tried to find out directly from X-rite about the lowest readable levels from the LT and Pro. I got this useless reply:

"Comment: There is no specified lowest light level for either of these devices, primarily due to the fact that they are designed for creating monitor profiles, and you would never want your monitor set to the lowest possible brightness level.

Our in-house testing indicates that the i1DisplayPRO can accurately read down into the single digit cd/m2 levels, but those would never be found in actual usage."

So I guess we're not actually using these meters.


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post #590 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 08:55 AM
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i1d3 (aka i1 Display Pro) has been verified to read down to .001 fL or better.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear_display3.asp

How low can the i1 display pro read
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i1d3 (aka i1 Display Pro) has been verified to read down to .001 fL or better.

http://www.chromapure.com/newgear_display3.asp

How low can the i1 display pro read
I am thinking maybe I have my meter at the fastest setting instead of maybe the most accurate. Is that possibly it? If it is, does anyone know how to change that in the settings?
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post #592 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 09:55 AM
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i1d3 (aka i1 Display Pro) has been verified to read down to .001 fL or better.
Good to know. Thanks.

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post #593 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 10:59 AM
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Arrow Sliding Power 2.22 Gamma (CalMAN 5)

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0
Color: 46
Tint: G50/R50

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: On
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 0
Green: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 0
Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 50
Magenta: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 50

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 20
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 22
R-Gain: 22
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 22

10p White Balance submenu:
Interval 1: Red +4, Green +4, Blue +3
Interval 2: Red +5, Green +6, Blue +6
Interval 3: Red +5, Green +5, Blue +5
Interval 4: Red +4, Green +4, Blue +5
Interval 5: Red +1, Green +1, Blue -1
Interval 6: Red -2, Green -2, Blue -4
Interval 7: Red -2, Green -1, Blue -5
Interval 8: Red -6, Green -6, Blue -7
Interval 9: Red -1, Green -2, Blue -1
Interval 10: Red +1, Green 0, Blue -3

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Off [grayed out]
Black optimizer: Dark room
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post #594 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 11:06 AM
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I've added 25% Saturation Sweeps (75% stim). I've also settled on what I believe is the best gamma for the content I watch and my viewing environment.

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
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post #595 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 03:16 PM
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Having this TV delivered next week, hope I made the right decision! Got my burn-in slides ready and everything, once I hit 100 hours I will calibrate with the WOW disc, anything in addition to that disc I should consider from this thread or the linked 51" thread for calibration? I would have read through these threads in entirety but they are getting long! Thanks
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post #596 of 1420 Old 08-20-2014, 08:23 PM
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Having this TV delivered next week, hope I made the right decision! Got my burn-in slides ready and everything, once I hit 100 hours I will calibrate with the WOW disc, anything in addition to that disc I should consider from this thread or the linked 51" thread for calibration? I would have read through these threads in entirety but they are getting long! Thanks


I just got mine delivered a couple hours ago. It's definitely a keeper for me. I am sure you will enjoy it,
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Just finished setting up the TV. This is my first plasma, and picture quality is amazing in a controlled environment. I can't imagine all you guys who have yours calibrated
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post #598 of 1420 Old 08-21-2014, 07:13 PM
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I just read this WHOLE post. Now I ask myself, what did I do? Bear with me, I am LOW tech and getting up there in age. Reason for just getting a PN60F5300AFX, these old eyes. What happened to the days of buying a TV, plugging it in and watching it? Now I am scared to take this thing out of the box. Break in, REALLY? Slide bars, Huh? All the stuff I read sounded like Klingon. How do I tell if its a A or B model? My signal source is the antenna on the roof with a coax cable for now. All I want to do is watch TV and maybe some old movies, now I hear CDs are going to be Exstinct. This is why OLD people need to die, trying to keep up with NEW tech. just makes me crazy. Could 1 of you fine young technoids please EXPLAIN in plain english, if its even possible for me to make this thing work? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
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post #599 of 1420 Old 08-21-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by SwampCat View Post
I just read this WHOLE post. Now I ask myself, what did I do? Bear with me, I am LOW tech and getting up there in age. Reason for just getting a PN60F5300AFX, these old eyes. What happened to the days of buying a TV, plugging it in and watching it? Now I am scared to take this thing out of the box. Break in, REALLY? Slide bars, Huh? All the stuff I read sounded like Klingon. How do I tell if its a A or B model? My signal source is the antenna on the roof with a coax cable for now. All I want to do is watch TV and maybe some old movies, now I hear CDs are going to be Exstinct. This is why OLD people need to die, trying to keep up with NEW tech. just makes me crazy. Could 1 of you fine young technoids please EXPLAIN in plain english, if its even possible for me to make this thing work? THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Hi there old timer . The fact that you managed to register on these forums, read the entire thread and post an intelligible and appropriate comment means you are doing far better than 90% of today's youth .

Welcome to AVS btw! My personal suggestion to you - Ignore everything you read on this thread. For someone who just wants to turn on the TV and watch stuff, just do exactly that.

My only suggestions to you would be:

In the picture settings (easy to access with the remote), Turn off Black Tone, Dynamic Contrast and Noise reduction. Set Black Optimizer to "Dark Room". Most importantly, set Sharpness to 0 (3 at the most). Sharpness is turned up wayy to much in the default settings. Turn off ECO mode in the settings, set Cell light level to 20. Brightness to ~48 and Contrast to 95. Keep Gamma at 0 or -1.

This will already give you a good baseline. Some further, optional things to consider/try:

For Daytime viewing, use "Standard" mode in the picture settings. Within this mode, set Color to 44 from the default of 50. Standard mode is a bit brighter than Movie mode albeit a bit less accurate (though you may not care for accuracy, so you might prefer sticking to standard mode)

For dark room viewing and for movies, I'd recommend "Movie" picture mode with Color at 50.

It's a great set, enjoy it! Don't worry about break in slides, etc. Those are only useful to those of us looking to calibrate the sets with meters as it helps age the panel out uniformly. The panel output changes a bit over the first few hundred hours, which makes reaching a stable baseline more important for calibration purposes.

As for burn-in, don't worry about it. As long as you aren't watching 4:3 content ALL the time, or the same channel with a bright logo ALL the time, you should be just fine. Mix up the content, and if you do any of the former things, then perhaps run the Scrolling pattern (found within the TV settings) for a couple of hours once a week or every other week.

PS - If you just bought the TV, it is definitely a B model. You can confirm by looking closely at some of the label/stickers on the TV box or on the label on the back of the TV panel. If it is PN60F5300AFX it is an A model, if it is PN60F5300BFX it is a B model. Most retailers still list it as AFX online as they haven't updated their listings, but the units being shipped out are BFX.
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Last edited by orion2001; 08-21-2014 at 08:26 PM.
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post #600 of 1420 Old 08-24-2014, 06:52 AM
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Thanks for the welcome Orion. I tried what you said and just plugged it in. Danged if it dont look pretty darn good. It is a B model, as it was just made in june of this year. Dare I say, whoever designed this remote must be a people person, because even I found it EASY to navigate around the system with it. MUCH easier than trying to set the clock on my old VCR. Maybe I will get adventuresome and try some adjustments after a while. One thing It will not do is go to the FIT SCREEN setting, it goes to ALL other screen size settings though. ??? Anyway I am happy with it so far... Thanks AGAIN.
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