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Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings?

307K views 2K replies 216 participants last post by  orangey 
#1 ·
Hi,


I recently bought a Samsung PN60F5300, and I find the factory default settings give terrible colors. Does anyone have a calibration setting for it?


Thanks
 
#449 · (Edited)
I think I'm finally done calibrating (for real...I promise!)

Just wanted to post to say how awesome I think this TV is! I resolved some discrepancies with my previous calibration and visual results when viewing movies using MPC-HC+madVR. As it turns out, I should have been using madVR test patterns via HCFR for my calibrations rather than the internal pattern generator since I view all my movies using MPC-HC+madVR. Now that I am familiar with the set, the calibration results were spectacular! I think a lot of people have to spend on a lot of extra gizmos to get calibration results that look this good.

I've ended up calibrating to BT.1886 as I like the resulting look. I've been able to achieve 35fL luminance for 100% white and 0.002fL black levels (probably due to my voltage tweaks) for an amazing contrast ratio of ~17,500. Standard mode with 2pt calibration also looks quite good with a lower gamma which works well for Day viewing.









CIE Chart looks spectacular after calibration


Saturation luminance tracks well. A bit lower luminance at 100% saturation...


...which is okay since the 100% saturation colors are slightly oversaturated


Everything looks fantastic now. I'm not sharing the settings for this calibration as it is specific to my HTPC + MadVR setup, especially since I am using custom levels (1-255) as level 0 and level 1 have practically the same intensity on my set (most likely an issue of the HD4000 gpu rather than the TV as no one else seems to be clipping level 17 black using their blu-ray players on this set). This custom level setting allows me to distinguish all black levels above 16 clearly.
 
#450 · (Edited)
I've ended up calibrating to BT.1886 as I like the resulting look. I've been able to achieve 35fL luminance for 100% white and 0.002fL black levels (probably due to my voltage tweaks) for an amazing contrast ratio of ~17,500. Standard mode with 2pt calibration also looks quite good with a lower gamma which works well for Day viewing.
Incredible calibration! Almost all the color checker points are spot on. Within the limits of the meter - I don't think that panel could get any more accurate, aside from running LUT Cube calibration/color processing,
 
#464 · (Edited)
Well, I'm using game mode which has no 10-pt controls... I suppose I could also calibrate movie mode and use it for movies and TV shows where input lag is irrelevant but I did try BT.1886 a while back and found it to have less shadow detail and dimmer midtones than gamma 0 in standard or movie mode prior to any 10-pt adjustment. That's likely due to the fact very low end gamma is already well below 2.2 with the gamma preset at 0.

Do you have the B model? Your native gamma in movie mode might be different from mine. Also, you mention gamma in standard mode is different from gamma in movie mode on your set. That's not the case with mine.
 
#467 ·
Well, I'm using game mode which has no 10-pt controls... I suppose I could also calibrate movie mode and use it for movies and TV shows where input lag is irrelevant but I did try BT.1886 a while back and found it to have less shadow detail and dimmer midtones than gamma 0 in standard or movie mode prior to any 10-pt adjustment. That's likely due to the fact very low end gamma is already well below 2.2 with the gamma preset at 0.
It is very likely that your low end gamma is well below 2.2 at gamma preset 0. I do have the B model. I think black level detail is a bit tricky because a lot of times, we are used to having displays with lower gamma, especially when gaming. You aren't supposed to be able to see shadow details very clearly...because they are in the shadows :), but it can be tempting to crank down gamma as it feels like you are seeing more details. The downside is a more washed out image. Of course, if you are viewing in brighter conditions, then the need for lower gamma becomes more obvious.

I think for gaming, lower gamma probably makes sense because a lot of games have dimly lit areas and the limited dynamic range of a monitor is no match for the dynamic range of our eyes. So no harm in tweaking gamma to whatever looks good for gaming.

With movies OTOH, I've found that with proper calibration to BT.1886, while increasing gamma on the Tv (lowering overall gamma), does brighten up the shadow areas, this increase seems artificial, washes out the image a bit and looks unnatural to me. This is in very dark room viewing conditions though. For daytime viewing, I'd probably up gamma by a click or two.

I may be wrong about different gamma between game and movie mode. The last time I checked, the two were not at the factory defaults so some of the settings could have affected my conclusion regarding overall gamma. But there is no doubt about the fact that Standard mode boosts overall brightness to some extent.
 
#469 · (Edited)
Been tweaking/calibrating on this set a fair bit recently ...

A few things I've learned:

While using "non contact" mode (ie meter not directly attached to screen) can help serve as a buffer to stabilize readings, with my meter (i1d2) it allowed in too much ambient light which skewed readings. I no longer use "non contact" mode.

The blue control adjustment box will skew your real time measurements when doing a continuous read, even in contact mode. My approach to this was to get everything spot on with the control box up, clear it off the screen, then make fine adjustments by going back through the entire menu. I had hoped/assumed that using contact mode would eliminate this issue but that was not the case.

The heat of the plasma changed the way my meter would read. The first wave of readings with the meter at room temperature would yield very different results versus after it warmed up. I have seen conflicting advice from professionals: some saying to always use non-contact mode, others saying using contact mode but get your readings from a room temperature meter (which I dont quite understand because there's no way I would have time to perform a calibration before the meter would heat up), and others saying to put the meter on the screen and allow it to warm up during the TV's pre-calibration warm up period. From my limited experience here it seems the latter is the only viable option, at least with my meter, which is admittedly dated at this point. I purchased it new in 2010. I do have plans to upgrade to a colormunki display or i1d3 in the future, it's just not in the funds right now.

The common theme among these panels, when calibrated to the 100% sat. points, is under saturation. When I last worked on TV calibration in 2010 I was unfamiliar with "color checker" patterns, I'm not sure if they were around or at least prominent at the time. To me, color checker patterns seems like the most ideal way to see how color calibration would effect "real world" viewing, so that's what I decided to focus on, in addition to lower saturation points.

Here's some stock measurements I took yesterday (ps, I manually enter black level as my meter cannot read that low, based on .005ftl) :








Everything definitely needs some work.

Interestingly, doing a greyscale and gamma (bt1886) calibration took the average deltaE of primary/secondaries from 3.42(6.65 max) to 1.86 (2.59 max). Never touched the CMS.

From there I tackled color. The way I handled it was to target a saturation point or two within a color which would most affect important color checker points (like skin tones, blue sky, etc). I am not using a HTPC nor a pattern generator, so doing these saturation point and color checker runs take a fair amount of time and a lot of "clicks". In the interest of time and my sanity there was just no way I was going to get things as close as Orion's calibration (he's also using a more accurate/faster meter than mine). But I got things looking good ... and most importantly, in real world viewing everything is noticeably improved.

White Balance from stock average deltaE 5.57 (max 10.23) to .28 (max .60). I could have actually gotten this tighter.



PS - Does anyone know why my target luminance points are always cut off in the measurements section (HCFR 3.1.5)? It's a pain trying to guess what a half cut off number is...



Color checker from stock average deltaE 5.34 (max 12.25) to 1.08 (max 2.85). The CIE chart got whacky because HCFR assumed some of the free measures of 75% sat. points I did were 100% sat points, so I wont post that.



I know I've said it before but until I get a new meter I'm done! Then I also have to decide if I want to venture into Orion/Tom's voltage tweaks... I sure wish you had some pre/post meter measurements on that black level + pink tint. If I was confident I could achieve .002ftl AND potentially reduce pink tint it'd be a no brainier :).
 
#470 ·
PS - Does anyone know why my target luminance points are always cut off in the measurements section (HCFR 3.1.5)? It's a pain trying to guess what a half cut off number is...
Lol, yeah there is a non-trivial way to fix this. If you see the little checkbox saying "editable" right above the table, right next to it are two up/down arrow buttons. Click the down arrow button and each click will add one more row to the table view. This is the strangest UI choice I have seen, but I'll take it over having no way of tweaking the view :)
I know I've said it before but until I get a new meter I'm done! Then I also have to decide if I want to adventure into Orion/Tom's voltage tweaks... I sure wish you had some pre/post measurements on that black level. If I was confident I could achieve .002ftl AND potentially reduce pink tint it'd be a no brainier :).
I am >90% sure that the voltage tweak + black optimizer resulted in the 0.002ftL black level on my unit. While I didn't have my meter at the time, I do recall viewing a few movies in pitch black conditions and noting the black levels at the time. While they were much better than my old TV, I was a bit disappointed at the time with the background glow on pitch black screens. I believe that someone else here also posted saying that on their set, 0.005ftL was the measured black level. I am quite confident with my black level reading as my meter is extremely consistent in measuring that number and the measured luminance at the high end is in line with expected brightness in movie mode (34-35ftL).

Do you have any idea if your meter is accurate when "cold" or when warmed up? Sucks about the discrepancy...5dE is a huge difference. Visually, does one look more neutral than the other? FWIW, the colormunki display shows no real difference in readings between cold and warm measurements.
 
#471 ·
Sliding Power 2.2 Gamma (CalMAN 5)

Here's an experimental gamma calibration in movie mode using the 10-pt controls and gamma preset 0:

--Picture menu
Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast: 99
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0
Color: 46
Tint: G50/R50

Picture size submenu:
Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced settings submenu:
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color space: Custom
White Balance: [see below]
10p White Balance: On
Gamma: 0
Expert Pattern: Off
Motion Lighting: Off [grayed out]

Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 0
Green: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 0
Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 50
Magenta: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 50

White balance submenu:
R-Offset: 21
G-Offset: 25
B-Offset: 22
R-Gain: 22
G-Gain: 25
B-Gain: 22

10p White Balance submenu:
Interval 1: Red +5, Green +5, Blue +5
Interval 2: Red +7, Green +7, Blue +7
Interval 3: Red +6, Green +6, Blue +6
Interval 4: Red +5, Green +5, Blue +5
Interval 5: Red +3, Green +3, Blue +3
Interval 6: Red -1, Green -1, Blue -1
Interval 7: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0
Interval 8: Red -5, Green -5, Blue -5
Interval 9: Red -1, Green -1, Blue -1
Interval 10: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 0

Picture options submenu
Color tone: Warm1
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
HDMI black level: Normal [grayed out]
Film mode: Off [grayed out]
Black optimizer: Dark room
 

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#472 · (Edited)
Color Space submenu:
Color Space: Custom
Red: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 0
Green: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 0
Blue: Red 0, Green 0, Blue 50
Yellow: Red 50, Green 50, Blue 0
Cyan: Red 0, Green 50, Blue 50
Magenta: Red 50, Green 0, Blue 50
This looks a bit strange to me. Why do you set your Color Space to 50,0,0 permutations? I highly doubt that this would lead to accurate colors across the gamut, especially at lower color saturations. I believe that Calman has a way to do a saturation sweep like in HCFR. I think you should really try that to see how the colors look at lower saturation. My guess is that you will likely need to rework the colorspace controls to get things to line up.

Edit - Also, what is the exact black level you are measuring with these settings. Is it 0.01, 0.0149, etc cm/m2?
 
#476 ·
Hey guys,
Just purchased my ph60f5300bf
Got it home, plugged it it, and tuned to a hd channel (without logos) to let it run a bit.
First impressions are very good (compared to my OLD Hitachi 57f59 rear projection tv)
The only issue I notice is a very small "jumping" where an item on the picture will "jump" up and down every few seconds.... I paused the dvr for a few seconds and on a paused screen it still jumps?
Hard to explain.
What is recommended the first month of break in? I am going to let it run for a few hours tonight and give it a break. I have gone through the majority of the 10 pages of this thread (much of what I do not understand) and still am unsure of the "proper" break-in procedure.
Thanks for any help!
Loving the set so far! Looks better than my Panny in the bedroom so far:)
 
#477 ·
the pixel shift feature is what you're noticing... I simply set picture size to screen fit, which automatically turns it off

there is no real break in procedure needed for a 2013-2014 Samsung Plasma TV... just don't leave something paused on the screen for hours and vary content that has static logos, HUDs, or black bars at the top and bottom or left and right

I use my 51" F5300 A model for mainly gaming and some BD or Netflix Streaming movies/HD cable TV shows. I've played games, for example, that have static HUDs for long periods of time and most IR goes away in minutes and the more stubborn goes away in hours or a few days once I stop displaying what is causing the IR. In other words, if I was playing Halo 4 for 1-2 weeks and the shield bar (big blue bar at top center of screen) became stubborn IR on the screen when something else was displayed, simply not playing that game for anywhere from a few hours to a few days would make that stubborn IR disappear completely. No need for pixel flippers, screen washes/wipes, scrolling bars, slides, etc. Just varying content.
 
#478 · (Edited)
Love this site for so many reasons, however, I am considering getting this TV to replace my Vizio E60i-B3. I just can't get the picture to look right after hours of calibrating. I know this TV is a Plasma, but I do not mind missing the smart features because I can use my bluray player for those. I wanted to get an opinion from whoever feels kind enough to share, will I experience a lot better picture with this TV compared to my E Series Vizio? Thanks in advance.

P.S. The side viewing on my Vizio is horrible too, I'm sure it'll be better with this set right?
 
#479 ·
will I experience a lot better picture with this TV compared to my E Series Vizio? Thanks in advance.

P.S. The side viewing on my Vizio is horrible too, I'm sure it'll be better with this set right?
Side viewing will be vastly better ... apples to oranges. Though I have no experience with the Vizio, I can almost guarantee the PQ will be better. The Movie mode picture on the F5300 looks good right out of the box.
 
#480 ·
I was thinking Plasma all the way, but went with the same Vizio because of the reviews. While it does offer the best LED bang for your buck and really good picture quality, there were too many deficiencies for my liking. I returned it for the 60" 5300 and haven't looked back. You will get better colors, contrast and black levels with the plasma - just a better overall, more natural picture. The side viewing angle is perfect, as all plasmas are.

If you are new to plasma, a couple of things you will need to consider: The screen is reflective and glare can be an issue. It's a piece of glass and not a matte screen like the Vizio. I have a moderately lit living room and it doesn't bother me at all. The other issue is that it won't be as bright as an LED. You might be used to bright whites, oversaturated colors that LEDS offer. The whites will not be as bright on the plasma, but the overall colors are better. The only time this is an issue generally is if you watch a lot of hockey, where the screen is almost all white. The ice appears dull. It's not an issue really in any other viewing, in my opinion.
 
#482 ·
Appreciate that input. I am considering the glare factor, that would be my only concern at this point. However, the better picture quality and the side viewing differences might just be a better trade-off for me. I can always get different shades/blinds for my living room if the glare is unbearable.
 
#485 ·
@matt, I should have mentioned this in my previous comment:

A friend dropped by last night to swap/share some music. He has a Vizio 60" set but I'm not sure if it's E Series or not. We weren't watching TV but I was tuned in to Shark Week and he commented a couple of times about the deep blacks and nice colors on my 51F5300. His TV is basically situated in a "sun room" so plasma is out for him.
 
#486 ·
It all depends on your setup. I have 4 large windows to the left of my plasma and 1 window behind but off to the side. In the daytime, I could see the reflection of the window behind me. That was mostly because my window blinds are white and I could see the white vividly. A slight tilt of my screen removed that reflection and now I have no issues with daytime viewing. You might also need to consider your lighting. If you have lamps opposite the screen, those would be very reflective. I have recessed lighting, so its not an issue.

If you stick with the Vizio, I might upgrade to the M series. The biggest reason would be the 32 active local dimming zones, compared to the 16 zones on the E series. Only having 16 zones caused uniformity issues and was actually distracting while viewing any mildly dark scenes. The whole 60hz vs. 120hz upgrade is not significant.
 
#488 ·
It all depends on your setup. I have 4 large windows to the left of my plasma and 1 window behind but off to the side. In the daytime, I could see the reflection of the window behind me. That was mostly because my window blinds are white and I could see the white vividly. A slight tilt of my screen removed that reflection and now I have no issues with daytime viewing.
My situation is similar. Almost half the wall space to the left of my screen is window, though there is no window behind me. My screen is swiveled a few degrees away from the window-wall. I'm watching right now, bright sunny day, with the curtains wide open and glare is not a problem.

Caveat: The sun is not beaming directly through the window and the overall brightness of the room is moderate.
 
#487 ·
My living room has some light (overhead fan light (usually off) and my kitchen sits adjacent to where the tv would be with some recess lighting), I have a pretty big window and back door that sits behind the couch but I have blinds that cover up the light coming in. My main concern is picture quality. My Vizio is just not cutting it imo. I've tinkered with the settings for hours and it just doesn't live up to my standards. I know the plasma will be better and I am hearing mixed reviews on how bad the glare really is. I'm up in the air, I have until the 23rd to make up my mind. Might continue to research and look at feedback before making a conclusion.
 
#489 ·
Regarding glare, it sounds like your biggest issue will be that window behind your couch. If you have white blinds, you will see the reflection during the daytime. That is how mine was. I was able to swivel my television slightly to remove the reflection. If you have darker blinds, then you should be okay.
 
#490 ·
I think I've made my decision and I'm going to go to BB today. I have to go thru them because that's where I purchased my original Vizio. They have it in stock, so I'm excited to be able to pick this up tonight. SPJ and others, which settings should I aim for when I get my hands on this bad boy?
 
#492 ·
Out of the box, if viewing in a dim environment - Try Movie Mode, Warm2, Brightness 47, Cell light 20, Contrast 95, Gamma -1, Colorspace Auto. If that is not bright enough for daytime viewing, keep the settings same and switch to Standard mode for a brighter (but slightly less accurate) image. You can also increase TV gamma to compensate for ambient light levels if needed.
 
#497 ·
Hello all! Since I have owned four different TV's in the past month I thought I would share my thoughts and compare them. I had the 55 and 60 2014 E series, the 55 2014 M series, and now the F5300 Samsung Plasma. First I had the 55 E and wanted to upgrade to bigger size so I got the 60 E. I then wanted the M, so I upgraded to the 55 M. Ultimately I ended up with the 60 Samsung plasma. Between the three Vizio's the 60 E was definitely the best for the Money. Not much different at all compared to the M........even the motion. The M series does have the Motion smoothing but it stutters every once in a while and does the soap opera effect when it is on. Black levels are the same. So if you are on the fence I would save money and get the 60 E........which is bigger anyway! Now I decided to go plasma because the local dimming was distrating consistent some halo's around small bright objects. The other reason was the off angle viewing was the worst! I normally watch TV from the center but my computer was way off to the side and the TV looked bad. The plasma blacks are uniform and has consistent and really deep. Motion is also better on the plasma. The plasma does reflect a lot more light than the LEDs though.......but the white level on this plasma is actually really good making it look really not that bad during the day. The Vizio's did look really good during the day and all the local dimming was not that noticeable. I have always been kind of a plasma guy though and I am more of a night watcher which is when the plasma beats out the Vizio for sure. As far as LEDs go though you probably won't find much better that the E series Vizio..........oh and someone mentions shutting off the active zones and when I did it at night the blacks got a lot brighter and makes getting these sets pointless.....so if shutting it off is your only option I would look elsewhere. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask.
 
#500 ·
Unless you have a meter you're unlikely to do any good tinkering with the 10pt WB and color management. You could try others posted settings here but I'd recommend just sticking with the stock settings Orion suggested for a while to become used to the new tv ... then try others settings later and see if it makes an improvement.
 
#502 ·
I'm so glad I chose to swap out my Vizio led for this plasma. Put in some settings throughout this thread and made small adjustments to them (everyone's eyes are different) and I have it looking pretty clean at this point. I'm sure I'll continue to adjust and I'll keep an eye on this thread. Thanks for everyone helping me out with the quick replies. Appreciate it fellas
 
#503 ·
Thanks for the help with the "jumping" screen! Ha
Yeah, the picture blows away my old rear projection tv. The colors are great and every time I look at it I am very satisfied with my purchase! $719 is all I paid for it. The gimmicks that the new TV's come with are not what I wanted. I just wanted a GREAT picture and that's what I got. I'm gonna get some hours on it, then try using a few settings to see how much better it gets-but for now without touching anything I am very satisfied!
The reflections scared the hell out of me but now that it's home they are not bad at all!
I would think if you had a window BEHIND you it might be a problem. Mine are to the left and right and my room is pretty bright during the day. Picture was still very good though!
Just my opinions! Thanks to all of the people for their help in this thread!
 
#562 ·
The reflections scared the hell out of me but now that it's home they are not bad at all!
I would think if you had a window BEHIND you it might be a problem. Mine are to the left and right and my room is pretty bright during the day. Picture was still very good though!
I knew I would get reflections during the day but I'm honestly surprised at how reflective it still is at night with all the lights off. Maybe it's because I have white walls, but I can still see my reflection in the black portions of the picture, or the letterbox bars even in a fully dark room. It's not a deal breaker by any means, but I was just surprised coming from a previous plasma with an AR filter that had no reflective issues at night.
 
#504 ·
Glare in the room causes washout blacks,along with washed out abl whites.Then try get everything the same in the middle.for the e450 here it's gamma 0.

Standard mode on e450 has a blue push especially on the low end.It may look that way more as my room is yellow.I think maybe the native colorspace may work better than standard.
 
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