Help deciding between the S64 and ST60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 06-11-2013, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi all,

After lurking around this forum for a bit and seeing some good ideas and opinions I am wondering if anyone could help clarify some aspects of the S64 and ST60 in order to help me make up my mind about which model to purchase.

Right now I am leaning towards the 65" S64 - seems like great value for money. My living room has a viewing distance of about 13' so I think the 65'' would be perfect. That being said my main concern about the S64 is the way the set handles 1080/24p film cadence. Has anyone (S60 users as well) had issues with 24p sources playing back choppy @ 60Hz? The S64 user survey thread seemed unanimously positive, so that was a big vote of confidence for pulling the trigger on the S64.

As far as the ST60 goes, all though my budget is tight, I am still considering shelling out a bit extra for ST60. In my line of work (video post production) I use professionally calibrated pro series panasonic plasma monitors on a daily basis, so the idea of having a comparable display in my home is very appealing. However, after seeing a thread nearly 30 pages long regarding the ST60s input lag, it defiantly put me off spending the extra bucks. I am only a casual gamer (I mostly play FIFA) but a good gaming experience is important to me. So in short, how noticeable is it and does game mode help?

Thanks in advance for any answers, links to other posts that might be helpful are great too.
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post #2 of 18 Old 06-12-2013, 02:52 PM
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I'm in the same boat and would like the same input. Except I don't care about the gaming aspect. Hope you get some valuable responses! cool.gif
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post #3 of 18 Old 06-12-2013, 05:20 PM
 
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Didn't someone say the S64 has something the S60 doesn't? Maybe the better panel, but still not 3D? I think the good antireflective coating on the ST set would be worth it unless indeed the S64 has that same one, unlike the S60. The S64 is a wholesale store one, not just a different country's S60, right?
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post #4 of 18 Old 06-12-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Didn't someone say the S64 has something the S60 doesn't? Maybe the better panel, but still not 3D? I think the good antireflective coating on the ST set would be worth it unless indeed the S64 has that same one, unlike the S60. The S64 is a wholesale store one, not just a different country's S60, right?

The S64 is exactly the same as the S60 except for the Anti-reflective coating/filter. Whether the AR coating actually impacts the picture quality in any way is up for debate.

To the OP, I wouldn't count on using the 48hz mode on the S64 unless you are one of the few that won't be bothered or won't see the flicker. The ST60 has the 96hz mode which will reduce the flicker, but to some it is still too much to bear while viewing a long movie. It's mostly noticeable in the brighter scenes.

As for judder using the 60hz flicker-free mode, it is not that bad and not something I have ever been bothered by. People don't realize but you will still see judder even with a display that has a functional 24hz mode since it is inherent to the the film tech.

The ST60 does have finer calibration options if you are going to go that route (has 10-pt gray-scale + 10-pt gamma adjustments), as well as a slightly better panel which should give better picture quality, but I too would be worried about the input lag issue.
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post #5 of 18 Old 06-12-2013, 08:58 PM
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Wow, people are still bothered at 96Hz?

Forgive me if I'm hijacking here.. but I'm going from an ST30 from a couple years ago to either an ST60 or the S64. I never noticed any issues with 24p on the ST30. Should that also be the case on the newer, but stepped down S series? Or would I be better off sticking with the ST series?
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post #6 of 18 Old 06-12-2013, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post



As for judder using the 60hz flicker-free mode, it is not that bad and not something I have ever been bothered by. People don't realize but you will still see judder even with a display that has a functional 24hz mode since it is inherent to the the film tech.

Ok thanks for putting my mind at ease, I figured that was the case. Going to pick up an S64 in the coming days, will be giving your calibration settings a go, thanks in advance for sharing those.
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post #7 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 01:35 AM
 
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Many people see flicker and many don't, even at the normal 60 hz, so you can't assume if you see things fine on the tvs, others will also have no problems.
As far as the antireflective coating, I haven't seen an s50 or s60, so I don't know how good the s series ones are, but I tried a st50 and it had much better antireflective than most other tvs.
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post #8 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 08:51 AM
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Considering that every expert so far has raved about the ST60 and some even declaring it the best TV they have seen anywhere near it's price point, I don't see why anyone would hesitate taking it over a S60/64. Also, considering the large price increase of a 65" over a 60" (and some saying the 60" is brighter than the 65") the 60" ST60 at $1,499 msrp would get my vote. I doubt if the 5" lost will be noticeable once you get used to the set. As for gaming, if that is important I would forget a plasma and go with a good LED, granted you may pay twice as much.

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post #9 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 09:46 AM
 
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Quote:
I doubt if the 5" lost will be noticeable once you get used to the set

Yes it would. I had a 55 inch set and went to 50 and never used to it.
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post #10 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 12:53 PM
 
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dsmith, well the s series has less input lag is one reason one would have to at least think about it.
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post #11 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 02:53 PM
 
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CNet's take: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-33199_7-57589190-221/which-panasonic-plasma-tv-should-you-buy/

We've basically said everything he sums up, but just in case anyone wants to see overall summaries.

Notice also he says the VT60 only ties the kuro, whereas in another article he had been seeming to say the panny beat the kuro.
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post #12 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 05:34 PM
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Excellent article from cnet, thanks for posting! I'm leaning toward the ST60, not great for gaming but I'll stick with my LCD computer monitor for that purpose. No need to worry about IR or BI while gaming on an LCD! Idaho is flyover country it does not appear that we will have access to the 50S64 at Costco or Sam's Club. The 65S64's were available to purchase online as soon as other locations but nary a comment on the 50S64...
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post #13 of 18 Old 06-13-2013, 06:17 PM
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I have the ST60 and the input lag is not noticable as what others are saying. I mean, if you are just a casual gamer like me, you don't need to worry about the input lag at all.
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post #14 of 18 Old 06-14-2013, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by GomuGomu View Post

I have the ST60 and the input lag is not noticable as what others are saying. I mean, if you are just a casual gamer like me, you don't need to worry about the input lag at all.

This.

Online shooters may be a different story though.
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post #15 of 18 Old 06-14-2013, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by connmen View Post

This.

Online shooters may be a different story though.

I only play on-line shooters so the input lag is a potential issue for me which I will avoid by not using the ST60 for gaming. My PC is for gaming and my tv is for tv! biggrin.gif
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post #16 of 18 Old 06-14-2013, 11:00 AM
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The main reasons for ST over S64 are 3D, smart apps, and wider choice of screen sizes. If those are important to you, buy the ST.

If those things don't matter, you are paying a *lot* of money for perceived PQ difference. I have never seen a comparison where someone has looked at the two TVs next to each other, both calibrated, and both the same screen size. I would hugely discount the opinions of folks who have already spent the extra dough for the ST.

The linked article says "We gave the ST60 and S60 the same 10 in value, but the ST's superior antireflective screen makes it much more versatile under all kinds of lighting. If you're not on a tight budget, it's worth stepping up to the ST even if you don't care about its added features like Smart TV and 3D." I would agree 100%, and since the S64 has the antireflective screen, that pretty much closes the deal IMHO.
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post #17 of 18 Old 06-14-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nopedals View Post

The main reasons for ST over S64 are 3D, smart apps, and wider choice of screen sizes. If those are important to you, buy the ST.

If those things don't matter, you are paying a *lot* of money for perceived PQ difference. I have never seen a comparison where someone has looked at the two TVs next to each other, both calibrated, and both the same screen size. I would hugely discount the opinions of folks who have already spent the extra dough for the ST.

The linked article says "We gave the ST60 and S60 the same 10 in value, but the ST's superior antireflective screen makes it much more versatile under all kinds of lighting. If you're not on a tight budget, it's worth stepping up to the ST even if you don't care about its added features like Smart TV and 3D." I would agree 100%, and since the S64 has the antireflective screen, that pretty much closes the deal IMHO.

If you are not going to get the set calibrated probably accurate but if you are the extra calibration controls on the ST60 will make a pretty big difference in the final outcome, that is why the ST60 is such an improvement over last years ST50 and why the gap between the ST60 and VT60 is much narrower this year.

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post #18 of 18 Old 06-14-2013, 11:51 PM - Thread Starter
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