Panasonic ZT60 and VT60 Fan/Fridge Noise Production Numbers - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 07:59 AM
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I haven't had much time to really test it out yet. I didn't plan on getting the TV until the weekend but it came in early. My media room is still a disaster. I hope to get things finalized this weekend to really start enjoying it. I went with floating crown and rope lighting, unfortunately I see the glare. My hope is that when I wall mount I'll tilt it just a few degrees to hopefully eliminate it. My other mood lighting, 4 wall sconces, also causes glare. I need to put individual socket switches on the 2 rear sconces as I have them on the same switch and I'm not about to rip the new walls apart to run a new line. The room is light controlled, no windows, so I thought this tv would be glare free back there with the soft lighting.
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post #452 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvadc View Post

Do you happen to notice any buzzing on bright scenes? I noticed buzzing before I got the fan fix, but wasn't bothered by it at all. Now after the fix , the fans are much quieter and I now notice the buzzing a lot more.

These sets buzz a lot on bright content (like the white and brighter greys on the break in slides). I had two different 65" VT60's, first buzzed very loudly, second was much quieter but still audible even at 12' away with volume muted. I've now got a 65" ZT60 which buzzes almost as loud as the first VT60 I had. When my local Panny service rep came out to perform the fan fix I made them bring all three boards out as well to see if I could get the buzzing under control. The new boards made a slight difference, but the buzzing is still noticeable at times (I've learned to live with it). The service rep kept saying he couldn't hear any buzz, but he was over 60 years old so his 5kHz+ hearing was probably gone. Completely audible to anyone who can hear from 5kHz up. Keep this in mind when reading comments about who hears fan noise/buzzing. A lot of people are physically unable to hear the high pitched tones in question. Panny is using really cheap transformers/capacitors on these sets. My old 50" Fujitsu plasma's buzz is completely inaudible unless you stick your ear against the back of the set. Even then you can barely hear the thing. Granted, the power supply is probably 3 times the size of the 65" Panny, but that's progress (and Energy Star) for you.

The overall PQ on the ZT more than makes up for this in my opinion.
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post #453 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

These sets buzz a lot on bright content (like the white and brighter greys on the break in slides). I had two different 65" VT60's, first buzzed very loudly, second was much quieter but still audible even at 12' away with volume muted. I've now got a 65" ZT60 which buzzes almost as loud as the first VT60 I had. When my local Panny service rep came out to perform the fan fix I made them bring all three boards out as well to see if I could get the buzzing under control. The new boards made a slight difference, but the buzzing is still noticeable at times (I've learned to live with it). The service rep kept saying he couldn't hear any buzz, but he was over 60 years old so his 5kHz+ hearing was probably gone. Completely audible to anyone who can hear from 5kHz up. Keep this in mind when reading comments about who hears fan noise/buzzing. A lot of people are physically unable to hear the high pitched tones in question. Panny is using really cheap transformers/capacitors on these sets. My old 50" Fujitsu plasma's buzz is completely inaudible unless you stick your ear against the back of the set. Even then you can barely hear the thing. Granted, the power supply is probably 3 times the size of the 65" Panny, but that's progress (and Energy Star) for you.

The overall PQ on the ZT more than makes up for this in my opinion.

Did the fan fix work? Is this the same fix being made at the factory?
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post #454 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

These sets buzz a lot on bright content (like the white and brighter greys on the break in slides). I had two different 65" VT60's, first buzzed very loudly, second was much quieter but still audible even at 12' away with volume muted. I've now got a 65" ZT60 which buzzes almost as loud as the first VT60 I had. When my local Panny service rep came out to perform the fan fix I made them bring all three boards out as well to see if I could get the buzzing under control. The new boards made a slight difference, but the buzzing is still noticeable at times (I've learned to live with it). The service rep kept saying he couldn't hear any buzz, but he was over 60 years old so his 5kHz+ hearing was probably gone. Completely audible to anyone who can hear from 5kHz up. Keep this in mind when reading comments about who hears fan noise/buzzing. A lot of people are physically unable to hear the high pitched tones in question. Panny is using really cheap transformers/capacitors on these sets. My old 50" Fujitsu plasma's buzz is completely inaudible unless you stick your ear against the back of the set. Even then you can barely hear the thing. Granted, the power supply is probably 3 times the size of the 65" Panny, but that's progress (and Energy Star) for you.

The overall PQ on the ZT more than makes up for this in my opinion.

When I got the 65ZT60 it buzzed on bright scenes.
I had it plugged into the Panamax 5400 power conditioner.
I plugged it directly into the wall and that went away.

The Fan noise is there and a tech will be here tomorrow to install the fix.

- Rich

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post #455 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 02:12 PM
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Does anyone have or can anyone provide a picture of the factory installed fan fix?

My TV was built in June. I looked in through the holes in the back and their appears to be some foam around the fans but I'm not sure if this is the "original" condition or if it's the "fix" that was implemented during production.

Cheers
Steven
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post #456 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

When I got the 65ZT60 it buzzed on bright scenes.
I had it plugged into the Panamax 5400 power conditioner.
I plugged it directly into the wall and that went away.

The Fan noise is there and a tech will be here tomorrow to install the fix.

- Rich

Interesting... We had previously watched all our movies, etc on our 50" Sony in the living room. As such, it was where all our theater gear including my Acoustic Research power conditioner was. Because I was anxious to get my new 65" ZT60 up and running in the new theater room in the basement, I set it up without the power conditioner. During this time I didn't notice any buzzing on bright scenes. I have since moved all the equipment downstairs and plugged the TV into the power conditioner and suddenly I'm hearing a buzzing during white or bright scenes.

I had chalked it up to something that happened as the TV gained some hours of use. Now I have an experiment to try when I get home. I wonder if it's limited to the specific line conditioner on that particular outlet or if it's indicative of the whole thing? Is it something that happens only on the conditioning side or do all surge protectors cause similar issues? I wonder what it's doing to the audio in my sound system?

Hmmm.

Cheers
Steven
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post #457 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mluder View Post

Interesting... We had previously watched all our movies, etc on our 50" Sony in the living room. As such, it was where all our theater gear including my Acoustic Research power conditioner was. Because I was anxious to get my new 65" ZT60 up and running in the new theater room in the basement, I set it up without the power conditioner. During this time I didn't notice any buzzing on bright scenes. I have since moved all the equipment downstairs and plugged the TV into the power conditioner and suddenly I'm hearing a buzzing during white or bright scenes.

I had chalked it up to something that happened as the TV gained some hours of use. Now I have an experiment to try when I get home. I wonder if it's limited to the specific line conditioner on that particular outlet or if it's indicative of the whole thing? Is it something that happens only on the conditioning side or do all surge protectors cause similar issues? I wonder what it's doing to the audio in my sound system?

Hmmm.

Cheers
Steven

The Panamax has an amp outlet.
It reduced the clarity and dynamics of the amps I have tried: Sunfire 7400, Outlaw 7400, and Parasound A51.
The Parasound was not as bad. The amp manufactures I have spoken to, recommend going directly to the wall.

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post #458 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Influence View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by guvadc View Post

Do you happen to notice any buzzing on bright scenes? I noticed buzzing before I got the fan fix, but wasn't bothered by it at all. Now after the fix , the fans are much quieter and I now notice the buzzing a lot more.

These sets buzz a lot on bright content (like the white and brighter greys on the break in slides). I had two different 65" VT60's, first buzzed very loudly, second was much quieter but still audible even at 12' away with volume muted. I've now got a 65" ZT60 which buzzes almost as loud as the first VT60 I had. When my local Panny service rep came out to perform the fan fix I made them bring all three boards out as well to see if I could get the buzzing under control. The new boards made a slight difference, but the buzzing is still noticeable at times (I've learned to live with it). The service rep kept saying he couldn't hear any buzz, but he was over 60 years old so his 5kHz+ hearing was probably gone. Completely audible to anyone who can hear from 5kHz up. Keep this in mind when reading comments about who hears fan noise/buzzing. A lot of people are physically unable to hear the high pitched tones in question. Panny is using really cheap transformers/capacitors on these sets. My old 50" Fujitsu plasma's buzz is completely inaudible unless you stick your ear against the back of the set. Even then you can barely hear the thing. Granted, the power supply is probably 3 times the size of the 65" Panny, but that's progress (and Energy Star) for you.

The overall PQ on the ZT more than makes up for this in my opinion.

What kind of buzz are we talking? I just did a frequency sweep, and I can hear pretty good up to 15kHz or so (which surprised me). The ZT60 is my third Panasonic plasma, I've never heard a buzz. I put the slides in, put the screen on Vivid with 100% contrast and stuck either ear right up to the screen on the FFFFFF slide and I can't hear any buzzing. At that range I can just hear the fan, but I've said all along I can just make out the fan noise with my head next to the set. I don't think I'm deaf, nobody else has mentioned the screen buzzing or the fan. At any rate, neither bothers me or any of my (presumably also deaf?) friends.

June build, no fix that I'm aware of.
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post #459 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckAuger View Post

What kind of buzz are we talking? I just did a frequency sweep, and I can hear pretty good up to 15kHz or so (which surprised me). The ZT60 is my third Panasonic plasma, I've never heard a buzz. I put the slides in, put the screen on Vivid with 100% contrast and stuck either ear right up to the screen on the FFFFFF slide and I can't hear any buzzing. At that range I can just hear the fan, but I've said all along I can just make out the fan noise with my head next to the set. I don't think I'm deaf, nobody else has mentioned the screen buzzing or the fan. At any rate, neither bothers me or any of my (presumably also deaf?) friends.

June build, no fix that I'm aware of.

You're all set then. Some set have been fixed at the factory.

I hope you do not doubt that fan noise exists because that means Panasonic is sending a tech for no apparent reason wink.gif
I believe I could pass a double blind test from 20 feet away tongue.gif

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post #460 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckAuger View Post

What kind of buzz are we talking? I just did a frequency sweep, and I can hear pretty good up to 15kHz or so (which surprised me). The ZT60 is my third Panasonic plasma, I've never heard a buzz. I put the slides in, put the screen on Vivid with 100% contrast and stuck either ear right up to the screen on the FFFFFF slide and I can't hear any buzzing. At that range I can just hear the fan, but I've said all along I can just make out the fan noise with my head next to the set. I don't think I'm deaf, nobody else has mentioned the screen buzzing or the fan. At any rate, neither bothers me or any of my (presumably also deaf?) friends.

June build, no fix that I'm aware of.

pretty bad on my tv, last night I was watching a show with a lot of white on the screen. I was enjoying the beautiful sound of plasma buzz and fan noise combined, It is sort of like Patchouli and BO combination biggrin.gif
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post #461 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 04:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

When I got the 65ZT60 it buzzed on bright scenes.
I had it plugged into the Panamax 5400 power conditioner.
I plugged it directly into the wall and that went away.

The Fan noise is there and a tech will be here tomorrow to install the fix.

- Rich
I hear the buzz similarly on bright scenes (I have it connected to an APC surge protector/power conditioner). Since I'm currently without a whole house surge protector, I'd rather not connect mine directly to the wall. redface.gif
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post #462 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckAuger View Post

What kind of buzz are we talking? I just did a frequency sweep, and I can hear pretty good up to 15kHz or so (which surprised me). The ZT60 is my third Panasonic plasma, I've never heard a buzz. I put the slides in, put the screen on Vivid with 100% contrast and stuck either ear right up to the screen on the FFFFFF slide and I can't hear any buzzing. At that range I can just hear the fan, but I've said all along I can just make out the fan noise with my head next to the set. I don't think I'm deaf, nobody else has mentioned the screen buzzing or the fan. At any rate, neither bothers me or any of my (presumably also deaf?) friends.

June build, no fix that I'm aware of.

You're all set then. Some set have been fixed at the factory.

I hope you do not doubt that fan noise exists because that means Panasonic is sending a tech for no apparent reason wink.gif
I believe I could pass a double blind test from 20 feet away tongue.gif

- Rich

I don't doubt that there's a problem, and I could maybe hear my fans from 20ft away if everything else was dead silent around here. They are not 100% silent, but they are so far under the noise floor that they just don't register. I'm just saying that maybe all sets are not equally affected, or some are louder than others. My DirecTV DVR is way louder than my TV, for example. And it's on all the time. I can hear it now, and the TV is off. I also don't think mine was fixed at the factory, but I honestly didn't know at the time what the fix consisted of or I would have tried to peer up inside the fan vents to see if I could see the added foam behind the fans. It wasn't making egregious noise, so we hung it on the wall without giving fan noise much of a thought. The guy who helped me hang it is in his early 20's, he never mentioned the fans, I even asked him if he could hear them when we got it on the wall and he said all he could hear was the clock on the other wall. Nobody since has mentioned the fans, and I don't hear them unless I'm watching TV from the unlikely position of my head being behind the set.

I've still got 51 weeks warranty, plus another year warranty from the CC. If they start howling, I'll report here.
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post #463 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I hear the buzz similarly on bright scenes (I have it connected to an APC surge protector/power conditioner). Since I'm currently without a whole house surge protector, I'd rather not connect mine directly to the wall. redface.gif

I haven't retried recently, but I initially noticed the buzz when hooked up to my APC UPS when a particularly bright screen happened to be put on pause. After sticking my ear in various places, I came to believe it was the UPS the tv was plugged into that was buzzing. Switched to the other UPS and then it was that one that was buzzing. After that went with tv directly plugged into wall. Buzz gone.

Have noticed slight buzz once in a while since (THX Cinema mode). May do some playing with it again after I get fan noise fix (I'm about procrastinated out, so after my brother comes to visit (long time no see), it's at the top of my to do list).
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post #464 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 07:08 PM
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My unit has a May 2013 date. What is strange is the fans all have the foam trim.

I found out my old Denon avr 987 doesn't work with this tv tonight. The receiver locks up... I'm not happy, although I don't really need it as a video switcher any longer. As long as the new xbox one works as promised, I'll only have the xbox connected to the tv.
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post #465 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 10:22 PM
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Is there a way of actually seeing the foam trim once you initially unpack the display?

 

I am determined to buy this display. Still undecided on the 65" VT or ZT model.

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post #466 of 1477 Old 10-24-2013, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by elitemikes View Post

My unit has a May 2013 date. What is strange is the fans all have the foam trim.

I found out my old Denon avr 987 doesn't work with this tv tonight. The receiver locks up... I'm not happy, although I don't really need it as a video switcher any longer. As long as the new xbox one works as promised, I'll only have the xbox connected to the tv.

I believe mine has the same foam trim around the fans. Is it between the fan housing and the back panel of the TV?

Is this the so called factory fix or is this how they were all originally done? I ask because mine is a June build and I was under the impression the fix wasn't implemented until July.

Cheers
Steven
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post #467 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 05:00 AM
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In the early photos of this thread, it looks like the "fix" is added behind the fan?
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post #468 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Is there a way of actually seeing the foam trim once you initially unpack the display?

I am determined to buy this display. Still undecided on the 65" VT or ZT model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elitemikes View Post

In the early photos of this thread, it looks like the "fix" is added behind the fan?

I had mine repaired today. It has a build date of June 2013.

The fans are very thin and mounted using flexible rubber-like offsets.
There are 4 foam stand-offs that stick to the metal backing.
Viewed from the back,

  • the left fan takes two, one horizontal along the top and at one the side,
  • the center fan takes one below, and
  • the right on the right takes one vertically on the side.






The foam on the fan was there to begin with so I doubt you will be able to see this easily, but it is possible.

It has done a pretty good job of reducing the worst of the sound.
I believe the foam is stabilizing the fan so that it does not oscillate as much since it is held by the rubber offsets.

I can still hear the fans, but the sound does not vary in pitch and is now better than my GT30.

- Rich
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post #469 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 10:22 AM
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I was wondering when someone would post pics, thanks Rich! That's what I see from the pics, like it reduces the movement of the fan.
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post #470 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckAuger View Post

What kind of buzz are we talking? I just did a frequency sweep, and I can hear pretty good up to 15kHz or so (which surprised me). The ZT60 is my third Panasonic plasma, I've never heard a buzz. I put the slides in, put the screen on Vivid with 100% contrast and stuck either ear right up to the screen on the FFFFFF slide and I can't hear any buzzing. At that range I can just hear the fan, but I've said all along I can just make out the fan noise with my head next to the set. I don't think I'm deaf, nobody else has mentioned the screen buzzing or the fan. At any rate, neither bothers me or any of my (presumably also deaf?) friends.

June build, no fix that I'm aware of.

Defintely high-pitched hum/buzz from the power supplies. If I have time this weekend I'll pull out the spectrum analyzer and try to pinpoint the exact frequency. All of these comments about buzzing when plugged into a power conditioner has me thinking though. I'm plugged into a Belking PF60 (same unit I used with my old Fujitsu) power conditioner, so now I'll have to try plugging the TV directly into the wall to see if that makes a difference.
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post #471 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by RichB View Post

The Panamax has an amp outlet.
It reduced the clarity and dynamics of the amps I have tried: Sunfire 7400, Outlaw 7400, and Parasound A51.
The Parasound was not as bad. The amp manufactures I have spoken to, recommend going directly to the wall.

- Rich

Have they said why a power conditioner would influence their Amp. I could understand a UPS that was not producing a true sine wave as most of the cheap ones don't but I can't think of what a power conditioner would do unless it sags when Amp asks for a lot of power or something along those lines.

This is just for my interests sake, I am not doubting them just trying to understand why they think it causes the issue.
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post #472 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronald Epstein View Post

Is there a way of actually seeing the foam trim once you initially unpack the display?

I am determined to buy this display. Still undecided on the 65" VT or ZT model.

If you check the pricing thread you will see that this model has a pretty good price right now at amazon and probably Paul's TV too with a code.

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post #473 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 11:16 AM
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Anybody know if the fans from Panasonic TX-P55VT60Y
fit in to the ZT60?
They make no noise
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post #474 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 11:30 AM
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The fans on my TC-P60VT60 are nearly silent.. The fans in my enclosed enclosure make more noise than the ones on my TV and those fans are very quite but could be quieted down by throttling the voltage from 12VDC to 5VDC to slow them down. The thing is that none of them are audible during movie playback as it only takes about 2 or 3 dB to overcome them. Remember, dB is not directly additive as sound pressure is measured on a Log Scale. It takes very little increase in dB from another source to eliminate a very low dB sound. For me, all this discussion seems to be about naught.

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post #475 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 12:30 PM
 
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For you perhaps, but out of 8 flat panels I've owned, this is the loudest of them all. Depending upon time of night and volume and surrounding ambient noise, the fans can make their presence known at least 20 feet out in some cases.
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post #476 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 12:42 PM
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I'm 25 feet out and here it even at volume 17 on my 65vt60.
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post #477 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 02:02 PM
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A repair company is set to come out on the 1st of November. Talking to Panasonic tier 1 is like pulling teeth. She made me shut the tv off along with all the devices, which are silent in the first place, to make sure it was the tv. I know they are just doing their job, but running down the script is annoying.
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post #478 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post


I had mine repaired today. It has a build date of June 2013.

The fans are very thin and mounted using flexible rubber-like offsets.
There are 4 foam stand-offs that stick to the metal backing.
Viewed from the back,

  • the left fan takes two, one horizontal along the top and at one the side,
  • the center fan takes one below, and
  • the right on the right takes one vertically on the side.






The foam on the fan was there to begin with so I doubt you will be able to see this easily, but it is possible.

It has done a pretty good job of reducing the worst of the sound.
I believe the foam is stabilizing the fan so that it does not oscillate as much since it is held by the rubber offsets.

I can still hear the fans, but the sound does not vary in pitch and is now better than my GT30.

- Rich

I'm entertaining the idea of doing the fix myself. How long did it take you to remove the back panel to access the fans?

Thanks,
Ron
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post #479 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 05:30 PM
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For those who had the fix installed

I have a tech coming out tomorrow morning. He has not installed a kit before, anything tricky on the install that I should watch out for? He says the kit comes with instructions.

TIA
jeff
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post #480 of 1477 Old 10-25-2013, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

For those who had the fix installed

I have a tech coming out tomorrow morning. He has not installed a kit before, anything tricky on the install that I should watch out for? He says the kit comes with instructions.

TIA
jeff

Grab, copy, or photograph the instructions! smile.gif
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