Panasonic ZT60 and VT60 Fan/Fridge Noise Production Numbers - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 06:04 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
Has anyone measured the sound level of the fans? Before and after?

My projector is around 30db and it sits 5 feet above my head and does not bother me at all. I can't imagine the ZT60 fans being any louder then this plus it would be further then 5 feet from your head.

Does it really matter? Either the fans annoy people or not, the loudness is not nearly as big of an issue as the undulating nature of the noise, a steady, as one person put it, "quality whir" would not be an issues, but this goes woo-woo-woo and to me that is the big issue.
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post #1442 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post
I would take great care in the fan replacement selection, you need a fan with a Tachometer wire, 3rd wire, as the set monitors the fan speed. If it sees something wrong the power light will flash 11 times and repeat that sequence as the indicator there is a bad fan. As far as I could tell from the schematic it does not look like it will shut the TV down, there is separate temp sensors that do that.

As you can see from the schematic below, the fan has a TachOut signal that goes back to the main control board and will detect that the fan is not at the RPM expected, the downside of this is that it is a variable speed fan and when the control circuit sees it is not running at the right speed it will raise the fan output voltage to the max or until it hits the speed it wants, so you may just end up with a big fan going the same speed.

Personally I would get a cheap fan controller from Amazon and manage temp and fan speed without tapping into the Panni circuit at all and just un plug the factory fan and accept the 11 flashes of the on off light, which is way better than the fan noise.



Disclaimer -- I returned my ZT60 due to the fan noise and went with another set, I knew it would drive me up a wall and that "noise" problems are very hard to fix, but I had it for a week and had bought the service manual, thus the picture. I still follow this thread to see if any actually fully beats this issue.
Thanks for your reply. The PC fans I have have operate at relatively low maximum speed. When the TV would spin the fans to max speed this will not generate more noise than the standard fans. The 11 flashesI can live with. I want to give it a try soon. Do you know the type of fan connector used?
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post #1443 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by CamaroDrvr View Post
Does it really matter? Either the fans annoy people or not, the loudness is not nearly as big of an issue as the undulating nature of the noise, a steady, as one person put it, "quality whir" would not be an issues, but this goes woo-woo-woo and to me that is the big issue.
If it didn't matter to me I would not have asked the question.
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post #1444 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
If it didn't matter to me I would not have asked the question.

Sorry if I mistook you for yet another idiot trying to tell people how this is not an issue because they have "insert your device here" that makes more noise.

So why does it matter to you?

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post #1445 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 08:07 AM
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Thanks for your reply. The PC fans I have have operate at relatively low maximum speed. When the TV would spin the fans to max speed this will not generate more noise than the standard fans. The 11 flashesI can live with. I want to give it a try soon. Do you know the type of fan connector used?
Sorry, the manual does not describe the connector itself or have a picture of it. I will note that this is not a straight DC fan, it is a PWM fan hooked to and 8702 Fan Controller chip that talks to the main logic board. This chip can easily be fried if the connections are revered or the fan draws more current than it is designed for.

Using an external fan controller will remove that risk and get you the same result, you'll just have the 11 blinks. The chip is not socketed so replacing it will be challenging, you can get the part on the Panni site for $1.89, the Panni part number is C0DBAYY00932 in case you do fry it...

An external fan controller is as cheap as 15 bucks and they come with temp sensors and the ability to set the temp vs fan speed curve. The best part of this is you don't void your warranty since you can remove it all, if you cut the connector I suspect you'll void the warranty.

Good luck, I would love to see someone fully solve this issue! (I suspect many others here would also.)
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post #1446 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 09:41 AM
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11 blinks will cause a shutdown of the TV from my experience. Typically the display will light up for about 10 seconds. You'll usually see program content and then it will shut down with 11 blinks. So if you do replace the fan, you need to emulate that tacho signal.

Most Panasonic plasmas only have two speeds for the fans, a slow speed which is run almost all the time (about 7V), and a faster speed (about 10V) which is noticeably louder and only ever engaged when the TV temperature increases substantially.
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post #1447 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 05:12 PM
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my new VT60 also has some fridge noise or hissing which is somewhat audible in quiet situations. I also noticed that theres already some foam where the fans are located.

However, is there any way to get rid of that noise completely or at least decrease it even further?

what about the theory that is has something to do with the back cover screws?

Last edited by persona; 07-04-2014 at 05:18 PM.
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post #1448 of 1511 Old 07-04-2014, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by persona View Post
my new VT60 also has some fridge noise or hissing which is somewhat audible in quiet situations. I also noticed that theres already some foam where the fans are located.

However, is there any way to get rid of that noise completely or at least decrease it even further?

what about the theory that is has something to do with the back cover screws?
Everybody's fans have some foam. Whether they have the foam just in front of (what you are probably seeing) or also behind some of the fans is what determines whether your set has the "fix" (read a few pages back, you want to also have the foam behind the fans). The "fix" decreases the noise.
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post #1449 of 1511 Old 07-05-2014, 05:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post
11 blinks will cause a shutdown of the TV from my experience. Typically the display will light up for about 10 seconds. You'll usually see program content and then it will shut down with 11 blinks. So if you do replace the fan, you need to emulate that tacho signal.

Most Panasonic plasmas only have two speeds for the fans, a slow speed which is run almost all the time (about 7V), and a faster speed (about 10V) which is noticeably louder and only ever engaged when the TV temperature increases substantially.

Tom -- You are right, I hunted around the service manual it is it part of the SOS chain which means it shuts down once it bangs out the 11 blinks. Would not be hard to simulate if he is an electronics type guy but impossible if not... Little 555 timer with the right RC network should take care of it, he would just hang a scope on it first to see what it looks like.


Another way would be to use the existing fans with the blades cut off.
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post #1450 of 1511 Old 07-05-2014, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by persona View Post
my new VT60 also has some fridge noise or hissing which is somewhat audible in quiet situations. I also noticed that theres already some foam where the fans are located.

However, is there any way to get rid of that noise completely or at least decrease it even further?

what about the theory that is has something to do with the back cover screws?

I have followed this thread from the start and to date not seen a repeatable solution, that is I mean, someone fixing it, describing that fix, and someone else successful using the fix.
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post #1451 of 1511 Old 07-05-2014, 06:37 AM
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I found this in a german forum, apparently its a combination of magnetic foil and part of a plumber's helper: http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...postID=764#764
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post #1452 of 1511 Old 07-05-2014, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by persona View Post
I found this in a german forum, apparently its a combination of magnetic foil and part of a plumber's helper: http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?a...postID=764#764
The "Plunger fix" but with the addition of magnetic foil and Plumbers Helper. At least one person on this forum has used the Plunger Fix and reported if solved his fan noise problem. I think he used two plungers instead of one. The Top Gun Baffle works in a similar manner and also reported to successfully reduce the fan noise. You can search this thread for links to both methods.
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post #1453 of 1511 Old 07-05-2014, 04:01 PM
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Hi all

I'm a new ZT60 owner. I'm breaking in the plasma but the noise is driving me crazy. It seems to come primarily from the left side of the tv if I'm looking at the front. I can see foam in behind the fans but there is a constant woo woo woo droning I can easily hear 10 ft away and even with the volume on low.

My questions are: do I have a dud and should replace it?, or is there a fix for my set 's woo woo even though it has foam?

I'm tempted to keep my old panasonic plasma and just fire this back for the poor quality control.
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post #1454 of 1511 Old 07-07-2014, 04:31 PM
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If you search this thread you will find my plunger fix. It has been on my VT60 for the close to 6 months I have owned the set. I do not hear any noise from my 12 foot seating position since.
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post #1455 of 1511 Old 07-12-2014, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Alphabase View Post
Hi all

I'm a new ZT60 owner. I'm breaking in the plasma but the noise is driving me crazy. It seems to come primarily from the left side of the tv if I'm looking at the front. I can see foam in behind the fans but there is a constant woo woo woo droning I can easily hear 10 ft away and even with the volume on low.

My questions are: do I have a dud and should replace it?, or is there a fix for my set 's woo woo even though it has foam?

I'm tempted to keep my old panasonic plasma and just fire this back for the poor quality control.
i just got a ZT60 yesterday and have the EXACT same problem. mine was made Jan 2014 it says on the back, and appears to have the fan fix. it is on a mount with a bare wall 2-3 feet behind it. it's this oscillating sound that is the most irritating.

i have the plunger stuff ready to go... but i see that there are 3 fans not 2, so i might need to make another plunger fix. this is ridiculous.
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post #1456 of 1511 Old 07-12-2014, 08:52 PM
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i just got a ZT60 yesterday and have the EXACT same problem. mine was made Jan 2014 it says on the back, and appears to have the fan fix. it is on a mount with a bare wall 2-3 feet behind it. it's this oscillating sound that is the most irritating.

i have the plunger stuff ready to go... but i see that there are 3 fans not 2, so i might need to make another plunger fix. this is ridiculous.
Ok so I'm not crazy. Mine has the foam fix as well. When I put my ear against the fans I'm almost positive it's just one that is making this background noise. I can only assume the fan is defective in some way. I'm almost done my breakin and I think I'm going to ask Panasonic to replace the fan. I'm a bit concerned about the surgery but what else is a good solution?
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post #1457 of 1511 Old 07-12-2014, 10:08 PM
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Ok so I'm not crazy. Mine has the foam fix as well. When I put my ear against the fans I'm almost positive it's just one that is making this background noise. I can only assume the fan is defective in some way. I'm almost done my breakin and I think I'm going to ask Panasonic to replace the fan. I'm a bit concerned about the surgery but what else is a good solution?
i think they all make it to a varying degree, but for me the one on the left does it the most. i have my TV on a mount and it would be a nightmare to take it off. i think its reflecting off the wall or something... i can hear it 10 feet away when sitting on the couch... its really irritating. kind of ruining the TV for me tbh since i can hear it when the volume is low or people stop talking on the TV.

the plunger fix definitely helped. the issue for me isnt so much the fan noise but the way the fan noise oscillates, like the pitch changes up and down which makes it stand out. dunno what i'm going to do.
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post #1458 of 1511 Old 07-13-2014, 03:45 AM
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i think they all make it to a varying degree, but for me the one on the left does it the most. i have my TV on a mount and it would be a nightmare to take it off. i think its reflecting off the wall or something... i can hear it 10 feet away when sitting on the couch... its really irritating. kind of ruining the TV for me tbh since i can hear it when the volume is low or people stop talking on the TV.

the plunger fix definitely helped. the issue for me isnt so much the fan noise but the way the fan noise oscillates, like the pitch changes up and down which makes it stand out. dunno what i'm going to do.
Haven't done it myself (yet) but back a ways in this thread, the addition of some small rubber washers to the fan screws seemed like a pretty good add-on solution to the foam fan fix. Available from home depot, 5/32" black neoprene washers, place them right under the screw heads to help snug up the fan so it doesn't vibrate. Should alleviate a good bit of the oscillations. First mentioned in post 596, picture in post 630. Some discussion of experiences for a month or so after.

Of course you have to take the back off (but some talked the repair guy into adding them when they were doing the fan fix).

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post #1459 of 1511 Old 07-13-2014, 04:55 PM
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i just looked, and my set has the full fan fix... so there are 3 fans on the 65" ZT ... the middle one is practically silent. its the other two that are loud -- when looking at the front of the display, i think that the one on the right gives off the most noise. also, the area under that fan gets EXTREMELY hot... like i can't even touch the area for more than a few seconds.

i tried the plunger fix on both left/right fans, and it did help, but the noise still bothered me, so i tried using an outdoor foam knob/spigot cover that i saw someone mention they were going to try. well this makes it almost perfect! got a few of these from lowes and used magnetic tape (which i will have to crazy glue on later as the heat makes them peel off), drilled a hole at the end of them. using 3 of these eliminated almost all the sound.

i'm just really concerned about limiting the amount of heat that is escaping. the back panel seems just as hot in that specific area, though, as i tested it before/after just with my hand and it was burning hot before as well.

does anyone know if the TV will automatically shut down if it overheats? what kind of thermometer can i use to test the temperature of certain areas of the panel before/after putting my foam pieces on?
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Your ZT should shut down if it gets too hot. I would take temperature readings before and after the installation to see if the temp goes up. A Thermapen is an excellent choice for a thermometer but not cheap at $90+. The Thermapen is nice since it takes the reading at the tip and is fast. If you like to BBQ or smoke food like me, then a nice investment anyway. But any thermometer will work since it will show the temperature difference with the fix applied.

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post #1461 of 1511 Old 07-13-2014, 08:22 PM
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Your ZT should shut down if it gets too hot. I would take temperature readings before and after the installation to see if the temp goes up. A Thermapen is an excellent choice for a thermometer but not cheap at $90+. The Thermapen is nice since it takes the reading at the tip and is fast. If you like to BBQ or smoke food like me, then a nice investment anyway. But any thermometer will work since it will show the temperature difference with the fix applied.
do you know for a fact that it will shut down if it gets too hot?

try touching the panel under the left fan [left when behind the plasma) when its been on for a bit... its INSANELY hot... like you can cook an egg on it (this is without any fan fix on there). i just think having any kind of plunger or anything blocking the airflow can be detrimental to the circuitry inside/motherboards... i dunno. i will do some temp tests and see. the middle and right fan areas don't get remotely as hot.

honestly, this is just sloppy engineering from panasonic. a $5000+ display should NOT do this, and should not get this hot to begin with.

i am going to buy a $200 IR/laser thermometer tomorrow to do testing and see how that works. i don't think a BBQ thermometer with a spike on the end is a good way to measure.

i am also going to be ordering a huge piece of acoustic foam to mount 5 inches behind the plasma to see if it makes a difference: http://canada.foambymail.com/ACG-/ac...grid-foam.html

btw: that thermometer looks great, gunna order one to use for food
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post #1462 of 1511 Old 07-13-2014, 08:54 PM
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I just took a reading on my 60" ZT60 with my Thermapen. 120 degrees coming out of the small upper vent on the right side (if facing the rear panel) next to the fan. I put the tip in the middle of the opening and inserted around 1/8". On the left side below the fan, my Thermapen read 97 degrees after about 1 minute against the metal panel. Not really surprised. It's a plasma TV. I think my old 50" Panasonic plasma ran a lot hotter than this TV but I've never measured the temp.

The Thermapen works..., just be careful sticking the tip in a hole! If you order a Thermapen, get the silicon cover. Nice protection if you drop it.

I can't say it will shut off it over heats since no experience. But would be surprised if it didn't since most electronics automatically power down when they overheat.

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post #1463 of 1511 Old 07-14-2014, 04:39 AM
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i am going to buy a $200 IR/laser thermometer tomorrow to do testing and see how that works. i don't think a BBQ thermometer with a spike on the end is a good way to measure.

That seems a bit high for a non contact type. A quick search at newegg results in models starting at $8. Of course the accuracy would be a question at that point.
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That seems a bit high for a non contact type. A quick search at newegg results in models starting at $8. Of course the accuracy would be a question at that point.
i got one from home depot for $60 ... will do testing after the TV has been off for a few hours in different areas with a baseline reading with the TV off / TV on for 1 hour / foam cones on for 1 hour and report the differences.

i think the back of the TV only got insanely hot when i was watching 3D.
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That's a lot better than 200.
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post #1466 of 1511 Old 07-14-2014, 02:50 PM
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now i just need to know if the TV will shut down if it overheats .... it looks like putting those covers on the fans increases the temp everywhere by 10 degrees. im just worried the extra heat will fry the TV or cause it not to last as long or be a fire hazard
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now i just need to know if the TV will shut down if it overheats .... it looks like putting those covers on the fans increases the temp everywhere by 10 degrees. im just worried the extra heat will fry the TV or cause it not to last as long or be a fire hazard
Thanks for taking the measurements. Any cover that's placed over the vents will affect the airflow. So for me that's not an option, the heat on the back cover seems a bit high. What were your max readings?
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post #1468 of 1511 Old 07-15-2014, 08:49 AM
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I recently bought a 55" VT60, which appears to have only two fans. It was built in July 2013. I can't tell if it has the factory fix, but I literally cannot hear my fans. Even if I put my ear right next to the fan, I can't really hear anything. Maybe I'm getting old.
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post #1469 of 1511 Old 07-15-2014, 01:30 PM
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Thanks for taking the measurements. Any cover that's placed over the vents will affect the airflow. So for me that's not an option, the heat on the back cover seems a bit high. What were your max readings?
i just got off the phone with panasonic... the TV will turn off by itself if it overheats, so that's good to hear.

on the fan on the left (when looking at the TV from behind), the max temp i got was 128F after being on for an hour and a half with my foam fan cover. the max temp with the foam off is was 116F, so it looks like it's only adding ~12 degrees, which i think is safe to keep on.

the right fan when covered is around 110F, doesn't seem to add more than 10 degrees.

having those 3 foam covers on eliminates 80% of the sound. i ordered a big piece of sound absorbing foam that i will experiment with, hopefully that will eliminate the need for the covers, or i can make the cover holes bigger.

thoughts?
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post #1470 of 1511 Old 07-15-2014, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by stile View Post
having those 3 foam covers on eliminates 80% of the sound. i ordered a big piece of sound absorbing foam that i will experiment with, hopefully that will eliminate the need for the covers, or i can make the cover holes bigger. thoughts?
Have you tried increasing the size of the holes? That should reduce the temperature but may not result in a increase in fan noise. It's been suggested the fan noise is not really the fans themselves but harmonics from the rear cover. Just a thought.

Last edited by eaayoung; 07-15-2014 at 04:57 PM.
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