Recent Panasonic News - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 06-21-2013, 10:10 PM - Thread Starter
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CNET
March 18, 2013
Panasonic may part ways with plasma TVs to save self

"The company is reportedly considering whether it should withdraw from the plasma business as it draws down its reliance on televisions."

Integrators Academy
Panasonic Getting Out of the Plasma Business – Shutting Down Production at Main Plant
Posted on March 18, 2013
by Jason Griffing in News

The Verge
Panasonic has developed its 'last plasma panel,' but television sales to continue
By Dante D'Orazio on April 10, 2013

We're looking to purchase our first plasma about the time this news was reported. Our 16 year old 36" Toshiba CRT just died. Plasma's wide viewing angle, blur-free motion, deep black levels and strong contrast are just what we need and will appreciate. The ZT60 mentioned in the last article is not in our budget at the moment.

Which of Panasonic's current plasma models represents the best value in terms of the following:
- image quality
- tuner performance for OTA HDTV fringe reception
- customer satisfaction and long-term reliability?

(We'd like our first plasma to last until OLED technology has become much more cost-effective.)

Thanks!

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post #2 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 12:05 AM
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I will likely be buying an s60 tomorrow. If the s64 is available I think most people would recommend that unless you are interested in 3d/smart tv features, in which case i think the ST60 is the best value.
I'm no expert and am mainly regurgitating what i have read here(and i have read a great deal).
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post #3 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 07:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for your reply and for sharing what you've read on AVS. There is a great deal of information on this topic to read and analyze.

Which threads did you find to be most helpful? Thanks!

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post #4 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 10:12 AM
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The S60 is by far the best value in plasma TVs, IMO.
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post #5 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 10:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Agreed, it is cost-effective.

I understand that it has a highly reflective mirror-like screen.
- What's the least expensive Panny model that has darker screen technology to reduce glare?
- Are there any disadvantages of darker screen technology?

- Are two HDMI inputs typically sufficient if not using an A/V receiver?

Thanks!

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post #6 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 11:22 AM
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If plasma is your choice then the 60ST60 is by far the best choice. right now price is $1499 but I bet you will get it a lot cheaper on a 4th of July sale.

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post #7 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

We're looking to purchase our first plasma about the time this news was reported. Our 16 year old 36" Toshiba CRT just died. Plasma's wide viewing angle, blur-free motion, deep black levels and strong contrast are just what we need and will appreciate. The ZT60 mentioned in the last article is not in our budget at the moment.

Which of Panasonic's current plasma models represents the best value in terms of the following:
- image quality

Most here would say the best value behind a VT60 would be the ST60 as it uses the same core NeoPlasma panel and has the same Anti-Reflective Louver Filter as the VT60 does. The S60 uses a different panel and has a different driving method and is a much bigger notch down from the ST60 than the ST60 is from the VT60. The ST60 is so incredibly inexpensive i don't see any good reason to choose an S60 other than to save a little money.

Quote:
- tuner performance for OTA HDTV fringe reception
- customer satisfaction and long-term reliability?

Reception and long-term reliability is the same across the line. They all use the same ATSC/QAM tuner module, and reliability is better than all other manufacturers.


Quote:
I understand that it (S60) has a highly reflective mirror-like screen.
- What's the least expensive Panny model that has darker screen technology to reduce glare?

The ST60.

Quote:
- Are there any disadvantages of darker screen technology?

No, only benefits.


Quote:
- Are two HDMI inputs typically sufficient if not using an A/V receiver?

That wholly depends on how many HDMI sources you have so what's typical for others may not be typical for you. I have five sources, but my GT50 only has 4 HDMI inputs so my two least favorite devices have to share one HDMI input and are routed through my AV Receiver. The big problem with sharing an HDMI input is that all devices on that input have to also share the same picture settings so one of the two devices may not look as good as it should and that's the problem i've had with not having enough inputs.
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post #8 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 03:18 PM
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What about the ST50 compared to the 2013 sets? I've been eying that due to its better input lag performance over the ST60. The S60 performs even better, but I like the anti-reflection panels of the ST-series and above models. I also like motion interpolation in video games and apparently the S60 doesn't have those features.
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post #9 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Randy,

Thanks for the detailed reply & your recommendations! smile.gif

"Due diligence" research:

In comparison to our 16 trouble-free years from our 36" Toshiba CRT:

P50ST50: CR overall score 76, CR user reviews of concern (out of 8 total reviews):
- 3/23/2013 - "Lasted 18 months"
- 3/20/2013 - "Beware of burn-in problem!": "Burn-in After 6 Weeks, Burn-in Not Warranted"
- 11/17/2012 - "BURN IN<<< DONT BUY"
- 11/7/2012 - "very limited web video capability": "Difficult Remote Control, Limited Web Video, Low Function Web Browser, Poor product support"

TC-P55ST60: CR overall score 72 (below avg. sound quality), No CR user reviews.

P60ST50: CR overall score 77, CR user reviews of concern (out of 3 total reviews):
- 8/13/2012 - "blinking red light": "after a while the TV will not turn on and the red light blinks. internet search implies this is a chronic probe with panasonic TV's and little if nothing can be done about it."

CR has not yet rated the Panasonic Viera TC-P65ST60, TC-P60ST60, TC-P50ST60.

1. - What is the difference between the older ST50 compared to the current ST60 series? Was the speaker system changed?


I understand that plasma technology is much more complex than the old reliable CRT sets.

2. - How much of a concern are these user identified issues in light of Panny's Plasma 3% rate of "Repairs and Serious Problems" as identified in CR's Brand Reliability survey?

3. - Any recommendations to minimize the odds of these issues?

4. - Are extended warranties worth the added cost for these issues?

Core NeoPlasma panel and Anti-Reflective Louver Filter:
5. - How does the following model compare to the ST60? There are minimal specs on the Panasonic web site for this model. Was it designed exclusively for Costco?

TC-50PS64 50" "Infinite Black" How does this differ from "Infinite Black Pro"?
(No customer reviews to date on Costco website.) AVS poll thread

Thank you!

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post #10 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

Agreed, it is cost-effective.

I understand that it has a highly reflective mirror-like screen.
- What's the least expensive Panny model that has darker screen technology to reduce glare?
- Are there any disadvantages of darker screen technology?

Yes, it lacks an anti-reflective coating, but that is also an advantage because it gives it a wider viewing angle and a bit brighter and more dynamic image. Provided of course you can moderately reduce ambient light or glare from a window in your room. I still think an anti-reflective filter is lousy trade off, as it robs the picture of too much fidelity, though this seems to be a minority view.

I have an 50" ST50, which has a coating, and I can't stand it. I'm thinking of selling it and buying an S60.
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post #11 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

Yes, it lacks an anti-reflective coating, but that is also an advantage because it gives it a wider viewing angle and a bit brighter and more dynamic image. Provided of course you can moderately reduce ambient light or glare from a window in your room. I still think an anti-reflective filter is lousy trade off, as it robs the picture of too much fidelity, though this seems to be a minority view.

I have an 50" ST50, which has a coating, and I can't stand it. I'm thinking of selling it and buying an S60.
Thank you for adding your experience to this thread.

Our family room has a double window that faces exactly South. We could add light filtering honeycomb shades or blackout shades that pull from the bottom up (opposite of the typical shade). Thus, a slightly open shade of this type only adds light near the ceiling.

Given our room are we better off with:
- a plasma that has an Anti-Reflective Louver Filter?
- light filtering or blackout shades?
- or a combination of the above?

Thanks

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post #12 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 07:54 PM
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We're getting closer and closer to the LCD only world wide domination apocalyptic horror story holocaust!

You may have to buy 5 plasmas and use them one at a time for five years each--in 25 years OLED will probably be here at a decent price--until then Chinese 4K LCD that sucks!
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post #13 of 27 Old 06-22-2013, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
You may have to buy 5 plasmas and use them one at a time for five years each ...

Per http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/TC-P50ST60:
Quote:
Long Panel Life — For Years of Beautiful Images

Thanks to design innovations, our plasma panels last for up to 100,000 hours before the brightness decreases by half. That's more than 30 years of viewing 8 hours a day!

Are you suggesting that the actual life-expectancy of the average Panasonic plasma is much less than claimed by Panasonic?

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post #14 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 11:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Post #9 has been updated. I would welcome any recommendations for the questions in posts #9 and #11. Thank you!

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post #15 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 12:34 PM
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BTW,

Do you want to buy my 50ST50? I'll gladly sell it for less than a new 50S60 (haha).
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post #16 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post


Core NeoPlasma panel and Anti-Reflective Louver Filter:
5. - How does the following model compare to the ST60? There are minimal specs on the Panasonic web site for this model. Was it designed exclusively for Costco?

TC-50PS64 50" "Infinite Black" How does this differ from "Infinite Black Pro"?
(No customer reviews to date on Costco website.) AVS poll thread

I don't know for sure, but I doubt either are any different.
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post #17 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ota.dt.man View Post

Post #9 has been updated. I would welcome any recommendations for the questions in posts #9 and #11. Thank you!

I don't know what you think you have "discovered", about "issues", but Panasonic plasmas have a MUCH better reliability than your CRT from the good ol days. And the "see these three guys had problems" list is down right silly.

Defect rates on Panasonic are low single digits. 70-80% of those that DO fail, do so during the factory warranty.
Extended warranties are and always have been a ripoff. That's in terms of math. If you need some kind of emotional assurance, you buy the warranty. And yes 50 people will now post: "My Uncle Louie had a warranty, his tv broke". And that is also meaningless.

Tony
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post #18 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 05:02 PM
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Actually, I hate to say it, but most CRTs are much more reliable than plasma and LCD/LED TVs. Individual CRTs are easily capable of 20 year lifespans, but your average LCD or plasma TV will be engineered to last 5 years, and it would do well to hit 10.
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post #19 of 27 Old 06-23-2013, 05:05 PM
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Valid point if CRT were still a viable technology it isn't by a long shot

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post #20 of 27 Old 06-24-2013, 12:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adone36 View Post

I don't know what you think you have "discovered", about "issues", but Panasonic plasmas have a MUCH better reliability than your CRT from the good ol days. And the "see these three guys had problems" list is down right silly.

Defect rates on Panasonic are low single digits. 70-80% of those that DO fail, do so during the factory warranty.
Extended warranties are and always have been a ripoff. That's in terms of math. If you need some kind of emotional assurance, you buy the warranty. And yes 50 people will now post: "My Uncle Louie had a warranty, his tv broke". And that is also meaningless.

Hello Tony,

Consumer Reports and CNET have many good things to say about the performance of Panasonic plasma TVs. Consequently, I’m genuinely interested in purchasing one. (I wouldn't invest time asking questions if I wasn't.)

My parents have a Mitsubishi 35" or 40" CRT TV from the 1980's. During the nearly 30 years they've owned it, it's only been repaired twice and it's still working very well to this day. Unfortunately, it appears many consumer electronic companies today may be thinking that the concept of "planned obsolescence" will provide future sales. However, repeat business typically comes from truly satisfied customers as well as their families & friends.

Since this will be our first plasma & I’m not an impulse buyer, I will exercise due diligence to minimize the odds of buyer’s remorse. It’s not my intension to cast aspersions on Panasonic plasma TVs or those who enjoy them. However, it’s very disconcerting to read first-hand accounts from owners who are less than satisfied due to early product failure or an issue that may arise from normal use and may not be covered under warranty.

Please note that in post # 9 I did ask,
Quote:
2. - How much of a concern are these user identified issues in light of Panny's Plasma (excellent) 3% rate of "Repairs and Serious Problems" as identified in CR's Brand Reliability survey?
3. - Any recommendations to minimize the odds of these issues?

I agree with you about extended warranties. I've never purchased one for anything and I'm hoping we won't have to start now.

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post #21 of 27 Old 06-24-2013, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Valid point if CRT were still a viable technology it isn't by a long shot

Indeed -- I wouldn't use a CRT nowadays. But they are more reliable. It was also very difficult to break them with a flying Wii controller...
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post #22 of 27 Old 06-24-2013, 03:34 AM
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If it means jumping out of the plasma race to focus on OLED, than so be it. Once the technology actually becomes more affordable and in a variety of sizes, Plasma, LED and LCD will be a thing of the past. As for CRT, i absolutely adore it....CRT sdtv's are still my favorite choice to game on since they don't have a trinket of input lag and they're great for old school horror movies and vintage/retro video games. The mid 2000 silver sony wega trinitrons that support component cables are top class! The downside? They're silver! tongue.gif
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post #23 of 27 Old 06-25-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Most here would say the best value behind a VT60 would be the ST60 as it uses the same core NeoPlasma panel and has the same Anti-Reflective Louver Filter as the VT60 does. The S60 uses a different panel and has a different driving method and is a much bigger notch down from the ST60 than the ST60 is from the VT60. The ST60 is so incredibly inexpensive i don't see any good reason to choose an S60 other than to save a little money .
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

That wholly depends on how many HDMI sources you have so what's typical for others may not be typical for you. I have five sources, but my GT50 only has 4 HDMI inputs so my two least favorite devices have to share one HDMI input and are routed through my AV Receiver. The big problem with sharing an HDMI input is that all devices on that input have to also share the same picture settings so one of the two devices may not look as good as it should and that's the problem i've had with not having enough inputs.

Randy,

Which of these three models is the best long-term value: ST50 / ST60 / GT50?

Anti-Reflective Louver Filter
Per this chart:
- ST60 uses Infinite Black Pro
- VT60 uses Infinite Black Ultra
However, the difference is not described.

Thank you!

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post #24 of 27 Old 06-26-2013, 08:02 AM
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ota.dt.man,

The S60 is one of the greatest values to come along in years. Unless you have significant reflection issues in your viewing room, I wouldn't hesitate on pulling the trigger on one. That is, assuming it has all the connectivity and features you need. If not for some reason, then the ST60 is the next best value.
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post #25 of 27 Old 06-27-2013, 09:19 AM - Thread Starter
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RWetmore,

I agree with you that the S60 & ST60 series are both excellent values. At the moment, I'm leaning toward the ST60 series as the entire back of our house faces exactly South. The Neo Plasma, 2500 FFD, additional inputs, and VIERA Connect web browser are also appealing.

However, the Panasonic.com spec sheet includes the following disclaimer:
Quote:
* The Web Browser cannot display some web pages correctly. And viewable contents by VIERA Web Browser are subject to the following conditions; / - viewable contents may vary depend on models, / - viewable contents may differ from those for PC, / - viewable contents may be limited. / ** HID (Human Interface Device Profile) compliant keyboards are available. A2DP (Advanced Audio Distribution Profile) compliant audio devices are available.

- How useful (or limiting) is the VIERA Connect web browser compared to a PC in the typical home environment?

- Does the ST60's web browser increase the risk of accidental burn-in?

Thanks!

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post #26 of 27 Old 06-27-2013, 12:00 PM
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To be blunt - the browser is worthless. Well documented by a number of different reviews and I own a VT60.

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post #27 of 27 Old 06-27-2013, 12:03 PM
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Wonder what rendering engine it uses, possibly a semi custom one.
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