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Old 06-24-2013, 11:20 AM - Thread Starter
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I know this probably has been debated a million times but I figured I would start my own thread specific to my needs...

I'm starting to research the newer TV technology because I'm just about read to dive into a large screen for my almost finished LR area...I have a large enough room to accommodate easily a 65 to 80" screen mounted on the wall, I have an older 42" Panasonic vera plasma now in our bedroom that I have always liked the picture and it has never giving us any issues...but I'm curious what's the better bang for the buck for larger screen sizes (plasma or LCD?) with the main concern being watching movies in surround sound (not a gamer) and maybe a good HD sporting event here and there??
I have a media closet where my cat5/HDMI cables throughout the house come from, my wireless isp modem (smart TV possibly??), along with speaker wires for up to 7.1 surround, looking into using an IR repeater or something to keep all my components in the closet and just have the TV mounted without any stand and boxes cluttering up the room...

Any info or suggestions are much appreciated, and I'm not in that big of a rush so if something new and improved is coming down the pike in the near future I have no issue waiting....

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Old 06-24-2013, 11:43 AM
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The plasma will have the best picture but only 65" in size and will range from 1500 to 4100 dollars depending on Panasonic models s. st, vt, zt and not to leave the samsunge out f8500 @ I think around $3300.00. I am also interested in a 70" plus tv but is their one that can compare to a plasma and at what cost. The new Samsung led Tv's look pretty good but the picture will be lower than any of the plasmas and at a price as high as double what a zt will cost you. I am willing to give up some pq for size but I don't want all of the problems that the led tv have. So I agree with you what led tv could you live with over a plasma to get bigger than a 65" tv.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

I know this probably has been debated a million times but I figured I would start my own thread specific to my needs...

I'm starting to research the newer TV technology because I'm just about read to dive into a large screen for my almost finished LR area...I have a large enough room to accommodate easily a 65 to 80" screen mounted on the wall, I have an older 42" Panasonic vera plasma now in our bedroom that I have always liked the picture and it has never giving us any issues...but I'm curious what's the better bang for the buck for larger screen sizes (plasma or LCD?) with the main concern being watching movies in surround sound (not a gamer) and maybe a good HD sporting event here and there??
I have a media closet where my cat5/HDMI cables throughout the house come from, my wireless isp modem (smart TV possibly??), along with speaker wires for up to 7.1 surround, looking into using an IR repeater or something to keep all my components in the closet and just have the TV mounted without any stand and boxes cluttering up the room...

Any info or suggestions are much appreciated, and I'm not in that big of a rush so if something new and improved is coming down the pike in the near future I have no issue waiting....

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If you want something larger then a 65" you have to go with an LED. Plamsa's go up to 65". If you want a 65" TV plamsa's offer better bang for the buck.
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Old 06-25-2013, 04:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies, I guess I have to do some detailed measuring and throw some masking tape on the wall to see whether I can settle with a 65" or not...I guess it I really wanna go bigger the LCD will be the one I have to research a bit more, we have a couple of 60" Samsung LED TV at work and definitely notice the sound isn't that great with the speakers in the rear and don't really wanna be forced to watch everyday TV through a AVR and surround.
I did not realize there were so many models of Panasonic plasma's out there, looks like I'll be doing some comparisons on a few of the models mentioned above to at least get the exact measurements, they wouldn't happen to be listed from entry level to best above??

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Old 06-25-2013, 04:52 AM
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Yes I listed them from the entry to the top of the line.
S, st. Vt, zt
As far as size goes all of the Panasonic should be with in an inch or so of each other. I think I am going to buy like the 70" Vizio try it and if I don't like it I will buy the next tv I am interested in going up on price as I go up. When I find a TV I can live with until we get better and bigger Tv's.
my list would be Vizio 70" then the Sony 70" 550a then the Panasonic 65" st60 you have another 70" Vizio the new m series could be a sharp would be next then you would get in to the Samsung 64" f8500 plasma or the Panasonic 65" vt60 and then the 65" zt.
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Old 06-25-2013, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

Thanks for the replies, I guess I have to do some detailed measuring and throw some masking tape on the wall to see whether I can settle with a 65" or not...I guess it I really wanna go bigger the LCD will be the one I have to research a bit more, we have a couple of 60" Samsung LED TV at work and definitely notice the sound isn't that great with the speakers in the rear and don't really wanna be forced to watch everyday TV through a AVR and surround.
I did not realize there were so many models of Panasonic plasma's out there, looks like I'll be doing some comparisons on a few of the models mentioned above to at least get the exact measurements, they wouldn't happen to be listed from entry level to best above??

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If you are concerned with sound, the ST60's sound is just plain terrible. Worse then any other TV I have tried so far and the list of TV's I tried is pretty full.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:01 AM
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If you buy an LCD larger than 65 inches it WILL suck!

65-inch plasma can be great.

LCD versus plasma is the test that determines if one is blind or not.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

If you are concerned with sound, the ST60's sound is just plain terrible. Worse then any other TV I have tried so far and the list of TV's I tried is pretty full.

Panasonic too? I've been watching a Samsung PN64E533 plasma at a friends for the last few months and although it has excellent picture quality it amazes me how bad it sounds.

What happen to including a decent sounding speaker bar like Pioneer did with my Kuro.

Speaking of which don't they make aftermarket speaker bars, The OP could buy one of those instead of going the AVR route?
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Old 06-27-2013, 10:35 AM
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My only experience with plasma wast a good one. Panasonic s60. While it could produce an incredible picture that would blow you away, it was very dependent on content. What it did with crappy content (which seems to be half of what you get on dish) was entirely different. Older re-runs like Seinfeld and king of queens were absolutely horrible whereas they look fine on both lcd tvs I have. Could have been just that tv but I took back and haven't yet decided if I want to try another model or get an lcd that I know will be satisfactory.
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Old 06-27-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Humm...Good to know , thanks for the reply...

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Old 06-27-2013, 01:51 PM
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All the newer models are ultra-thin and that means speaker sound quality will be poor compared to the older thicker panel models from a few years back.
Even the new plasma models are very thin panels compared to a few years ago and of course the edge-lit LED TVs are even thinner, leaving no room for quality speakers in the set itself.
Thats probably why add-on sound bars are popular now to go with the ultra-thin TV models.
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Old 06-27-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

. . .and don't really wanna be forced to watch everyday TV through a AVR and surround.

Need to get a Logitech Harmony or similar All in One Remote, you will NEVER listen to sound via you TV Speakers again.

One Button turn on all devices necessary, and switches audio and video inputs as needed.

I never upgraded my older (5 or 6 years old) AV Receiver that does not have any HDMI inputsoutputs, because my harmony does all the video switching.

So simple a caveman can . . . er, nevermaind!
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:08 PM
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LED's don't even register as an option for me anymore. it's full array or nothing imo. I had a couple LED's over a 2 week period and they were without question the worst TV's I've ever viewed in the dark. looked fine, great even, with the windows open or the lights at full blast. but anything close to a comfortable viewing environment and the backlighting ruined everything.

my extreme bias aside...

if you want to watch with some lights on, grab a plasma.
if you will only be watching in the dark, look at a projector.

honestly, I think it's absolutely silly to spend the kind of money a 70"+ LCD costs unless you do all your viewing with the lights on full. for the same price(often much less) you can get a projector/screen and get at least as good of a picture on a significantly larger image.

I would at the very least read up on some projector/screen options before purchasing a large LCD. the plasma is a pretty safe bet, and usually a good value. but if you're going for larger than 65" only a projector makes sense to me.

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Old 06-27-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BriscoCountyJr View Post

All the newer models are ultra-thin and that means speaker sound quality will be poor compared to the older thicker panel models from a few years back.
Even the new plasma models are very thin panels compared to a few years ago and of course the edge-lit LED TVs are even thinner, leaving no room for quality speakers in the set itself.
Thats probably why add-on sound bars are popular now to go with the ultra-thin TV models.

I can't wait until TV's don't even have speakers. it's such a waste imo. there's no way anybody should be spending 2grand on a big tv and not having at least a soundbar to go with it. don't think of it as an added expense, think of it as speakers being an option, and the majority of ppl that don't use them don't have to waste their money anymore.

I say you've got two options. external speakers, or don't worry about it. if you buy a tv based on it's speakers you're missing the point entirely.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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Old 06-27-2013, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jkmach View Post

My only experience with plasma wast a good one. Panasonic s60. While it could produce an incredible picture that would blow you away, it was very dependent on content. What it did with crappy content (which seems to be half of what you get on dish) was entirely different. Older re-runs like Seinfeld and king of queens were absolutely horrible whereas they look fine on both lcd tvs I have. Could have been just that tv but I took back and haven't yet decided if I want to try another model or get an lcd that I know will be satisfactory.

that's not a characteristic of the display technology. in fact, plasmas were historically supposed to be better with SD content. truth is it's just a matter of how the signal is upscaled. cheap TV's won't get the best upscalers. lcd or plasma, they are both fixed pixel displays, meaning they can only display one resolution. anything input difference from that resolution needs to be scaled and that's processing done that has nothing to do with whether it's plasma or lcd. this is one of those cases where it's simply about buying quality. lcd or plasma, the cheap ones won't handle SD content as well as the more expensive ones.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
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Old 06-27-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

that's not a characteristic of the display technology. in fact, plasmas were historically supposed to be better with SD content. truth is it's just a matter of how the signal is upscaled. cheap TV's won't get the best upscalers. lcd or plasma, they are both fixed pixel displays, meaning they can only display one resolution. anything input difference from that resolution needs to be scaled and that's processing done that has nothing to do with whether it's plasma or lcd. this is one of those cases where it's simply about buying quality. lcd or plasma, the cheap ones won't handle SD content as well as the more expensive ones.
I thought it might be just that tv. It was really the skin tones that were horrible. Even on hd programming I was getting the clay face effect. I really haven't seen anything that produces decent skin tones when you get up to 60 inches or more. Of course no one in my area carries or display any high end plasma.
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Old 06-27-2013, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I can't wait until TV's don't even have speakers. it's such a waste imo. there's no way anybody should be spending 2grand on a big tv and not having at least a soundbar to go with it. don't think of it as an added expense, think of it as speakers being an option, and the majority of ppl that don't use them don't have to waste their money anymore.

I say you've got two options. external speakers, or don't worry about it. if you buy a tv based on it's speakers you're missing the point entirely.

Thanks, I'll hopefully be get it all figured out eventually, not to familiar with sound bars and will look into reading about them as well as an option possibly until I have my whole HT set up...

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LED's don't even register as an option for me anymore. it's full array or nothing imo. I had a couple LED's over a 2 week period and they were without question the worst TV's I've ever viewed in the dark. looked fine, great even, with the windows open or the lights at full blast. but anything close to a comfortable viewing environment and the backlighting ruined everything.

my extreme bias aside...

if you want to watch with some lights on, grab a plasma.
if you will only be watching in the dark, look at a projector.

honestly, I think it's absolutely silly to spend the kind of money a 70"+ LCD costs unless you do all your viewing with the lights on full. for the same price(often much less) you can get a projector/screen and get at least as good of a picture on a significantly larger image.

I would at the very least read up on some projector/screen options before purchasing a large LCD. the plasma is a pretty safe bet, and usually a good value. but if you're going for larger than 65" only a projector makes sense to me.

Yeah I think after reading alot on this forum and what I've seen so far with LCD's I'll be looking into a higher end 65" Plasma that will look good with whichever source is being viewed on it, just a matter of narrowing that down now or what potentially may be coming out in the near future??

Quote:
Originally Posted by BuddTX View Post

Need to get a Logitech Harmony or similar All in One Remote, you will NEVER listen to sound via you TV Speakers again.

One Button turn on all devices necessary, and switches audio and video inputs as needed.

I never upgraded my older (5 or 6 years old) AV Receiver that does not have any HDMI inputsoutputs, because my harmony does all the video switching.

So simple a caveman can . . . er, nevermaind!

Yeah that's on my research list for sure as well, to better help everyone in the house (wife) cool.gif
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Old 06-28-2013, 12:53 PM
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I second the recommendation to look into front projection if a 65" plasma isn't large enough. The difference between a 65" and 70" panel isn't much at all unless they're sitting side by side and the drop off in picture quality from a quality plasma to an edge lit LCD is quite significant, IMO. If you want a big picture nothing matches front projection and certainly not for the money you'd have to spend to set it up. As long as you have light control and are willing to use it front projection is a much better option than any large LCD panel. If you have the space you could easily run, for example, a Sony VPL-HW50ES on a 110" screen for less than the cost of a 75" LCD.

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Old 06-28-2013, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I second the recommendation to look into front projection if a 65" plasma isn't large enough. The difference between a 65" and 70" panel isn't much at all unless they're sitting side by side and the drop off in picture quality from a quality plasma to an edge lit LCD is quite significant, IMO. If you want a big picture nothing matches front projection and certainly not for the money you'd have to spend to set it up. As long as you have light control and are willing to use it front projection is a much better option than any large LCD panel. If you have the space you could easily run, for example, a Sony VPL-HW50ES on a 110" screen for less than the cost of a 75" LCD.

The only problem with that right now is the ceiling and walls are finished now and a ceiling fan is in the way along with I no longer have access to get required wires there..I wish I would have looked into it like I am now before the rock and Spackle went up...one of those kick yourself in the --- things now....so a 65" higher end plasma is my best option right now...
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Old 06-29-2013, 01:41 AM
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The only problem with that right now is the ceiling and walls are finished now and a ceiling fan is in the way along with I no longer have access to get required wires there..I wish I would have looked into it like I am now before the rock and Spackle went up...one of those kick yourself in the --- things now....so a 65" higher end plasma is my best option right now...

All of these higher end plasma's are great for certain things and I had a hard time deciding which one I would finally go with. Panasonic has a great set with the VT60 and Samsung has a great set with the F8500. I watched about 45 minutes of content in 3D and 2D in each in both dark and bright room configurations and was lucky enough to watch them both side by side fully calibrated to reference levels.

Just remember that what type of content you like to watch should also influence your decision. Right now, Samsung has the best technology for upconverting content into its native 1080p. No Panasonic fanboy would argue with that, which is why SD looks better on a Samsung Plasma. The newer F8500 has a quad core processor that is class leading and upgradeable as well if suddenly two years from now an eight core processor is used which lead to firmware enhancements that may increase picture quality in SD. By no means is SD bad on the VT60, just in comparison there is no contest.

If 3D is important to you, the Samsung F8500 has Full 1080p on both eyes all the time when watching bluray 3d. Panasonic chose not to go that route for 3D content in their high end plasma's so they give up resolution in order to achieve a more accurate greyscale in 3D. So if 3D is important to you like it is to me, you have to test out 3D in both for yourself to see if you can notice the difference. Also the F8500 when properly calibrated in 3D (an extra fee which I highly recommend) is brighter than a properly calibrated VT60 which compensates well for the loss of light when wearing the 3D glasses.

However if you have a dedicated dark room home theater space, and primarily are going to watch 2D Blurays, then you will achieve very slightly darker blacks with the VT60 than the Sammy F8500. Honestly though when I saw both side by side and calibrated to the best that both could get, the F8500 looked like it had darker blacks than the VT60 even though the machine told us differently. The illusion lies with the extra brightness on the F8500 that it can achieve. Yes, the VT60 produces a more reference quality picture, however to me I discovered a more pleasing picture with the F8500. Granted your Regina's close more the brighter the image so you do have to make sure to also view both sets on their own and let your retinas adjust to the darker image of the VT60 after viewing the F8500 to make the comparison.

Now I am not saying you will come up with the same conclusions as me. In fact you may see the exact opposite, and that is ok. I do suggest you go see the plasma's for yourself and make up your own mind.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:07 AM
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I second the recommendation to look into front projection if a 65" plasma isn't large enough. The difference between a 65" and 70" panel isn't much at all unless they're sitting side by side and the drop off in picture quality from a quality plasma to an edge lit LCD is quite significant, IMO. If you want a big picture nothing matches front projection and certainly not for the money you'd have to spend to set it up. As long as you have light control and are willing to use it front projection is a much better option than any large LCD panel. If you have the space you could easily run, for example, a Sony VPL-HW50ES on a 110" screen for less than the cost of a 75" LCD.

Sean,

Thank you for the post. I am in a similar position. I do not like the large LCDs - at least the ones I can afford. And 65 inch plasma may be too small. I have the ability to install a front projector in a light-controlled basement man cave. But my opening for the screen is only 68" wide x 54" tall. Every thread I read about front projectors talks about screen sizes above 100 inches. Can front projectors be used for a smaller screen openings like mine? What effect will it have on picture quality? Will it actually make it brighter? Can you give me any recommendations on where to start? ( Viewing will be mostly sports (me), with a few 3D movies and occasional gaming by the kids). TV budget $4500. Thanks.
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Old 06-30-2013, 06:35 AM
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Panasonic VT, incredible deal at Paulstv.com for The holiday. Check the coupon section of their banner. You have to login to see price, since its below advertisable price.

As for control, ir repeaters can be extremely frustrating/quirky. Don't cheap out on the control aspect, try Xantech, they're best in the biz. In our house, we run Roomie Remote on all of our iOS devices. This allows you to control everything over ip connection, and even ir with Global Cache iTachs. Is really easy to setup too, my wife loves it, especially for the interactive guide.
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Old 06-30-2013, 10:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the tips on the ir repeater Xantech...I would imagine they work well with logitech remotes, I'll have to check them out...Not an apple household :-)
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Old 08-10-2013, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright Folks, here is a floor plan lay out of what I am dealing with and a few questions with choices I may have as I continue to struggle with the correct size display?As far as furniture not sure if I'll get a couple theater chairs for my viewing area and a couch on the long wall for company or going with a nice sectional or not ? This is NOT a dedicated HT room, its a living room that will be used for everyday TV, kids cartoons and as well great BD movies on the occasion and possibly moving towards a HTPC set up in the future.....

I want to do this once and have no regrets like 6 months later I would say "Dam I should have ?"

1. In the drawing you'll see my viewing distance ranges from 16-18.5' from the wall, a 65"Plasma seems like it may be pushing it ?

2. Whats needed as far as cabling to the ceiling for a good projector and whats the distance from the screen wall is the right spot for the actual projector ? 8' ceilings...How does everyday TV look on a projector screen (especially during the day?)

3.Which is a somewhat comparable larger LCD that's not to ridiculous in price ?

4.Whats the chances of Panasonic or Samsung coming out with a larger plasma by spring of 2014 ?

Any thoughts and more input is much appreciated....

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Old 08-14-2013, 05:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 08-14-2013, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

1. In the drawing you'll see my viewing distance ranges from 16-18.5' from the wall, a 65"Plasma seems like it may be pushing it ?

I have a 60" plasma about 12 feet from seating position and I think it's large enough. 65"-70" seems like it'd be a good number from your distance. I think you'll want to decide whether you prefer picture quality or screen size. I'd still stick with plasma in your situation.
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

2. Whats needed as far as cabling to the ceiling for a good projector and whats the distance from the screen wall is the right spot for the actual projector ? 8' ceilings...How does everyday TV look on a projector screen (especially during the day?)

I bought a 25' HDMI cable from monoprice a while back because I intended to get a projector before I decided it wouldn't be best for everyday viewing. Light needs to be controlled if you aren't going to splurge on an expensive one that's very bright, and the bulbs have to be replaced every 2500-3500 hours? At a few hundred a pop, I decided it wouldn't be best for everyday viewing... Depends on how much TV you watch and how well the light is controlled.
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

3.Which is a somewhat comparable larger LCD that's not to ridiculous in price ?

I don't believe there are any comparable LCDs, as far as picture quality, that aren't ridiculous in price. You can get a 70" Vizio for a lot more than a 65" S64 and more than an ST60, but both plasmas will whoop it in PQ.
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Originally Posted by roadking00 View Post

4.Whats the chances of Panasonic or Samsung coming out with a larger plasma by spring of 2014 ?

No idea, and not sure if anyone knows. Plasmas are unfortunately a "small" market.

My original plan was a projector, which is why I had the super long HDMI cable. The reason I decided against it was I didn't want to have to worry about replacing bulbs every year or two so I could watch it like I would a TV, on top of having to buy a quality screen and having to get better control over the room's lighting. I bought a 60ST50 and don't regret it, but I'm not sitting quite as far away from it as you would be. Also, I'm really interested in 1080p 3D gaming... at 60hz. Which unfortunately HDMI doesn't seem to support yet and I don't think will officially until 2.0 spec? So, I'm going to build a custom TV stand/entertainment center for the TV, with the TV and the shelves around it being a little inset, so I can hide an electronic projector screen in it and roll it down in the future for movie viewing smile.gif
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Old 08-14-2013, 12:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jorsher View Post

I have a 60" plasma about 12 feet from seating position and I think it's large enough. 65"-70" seems like it'd be a good number from your distance. I think you'll want to decide whether you prefer picture quality or screen size. I'd still stick with plasma in your situation.
I bought a 25' HDMI cable from monoprice a while back because I intended to get a projector before I decided it wouldn't be best for everyday viewing. Light needs to be controlled if you aren't going to splurge on an expensive one that's very bright, and the bulbs have to be replaced every 2500-3500 hours? At a few hundred a pop, I decided it wouldn't be best for everyday viewing... Depends on how much TV you watch and how well the light is controlled.
I don't believe there are any comparable LCDs, as far as picture quality, that aren't ridiculous in price. You can get a 70" Vizio for a lot more than a 65" S64 and more than an ST60, but both plasmas will whoop it in PQ.
No idea, and not sure if anyone knows. Plasmas are unfortunately a "small" market.

My original plan was a projector, which is why I had the super long HDMI cable. The reason I decided against it was I didn't want to have to worry about replacing bulbs every year or two so I could watch it like I would a TV, on top of having to buy a quality screen and having to get better control over the room's lighting. I bought a 60ST50 and don't regret it, but I'm not sitting quite as far away from it as you would be. Also, I'm really interested in 1080p 3D gaming... at 60hz. Which unfortunately HDMI doesn't seem to support yet and I don't think will officially until 2.0 spec? So, I'm going to build a custom TV stand/entertainment center for the TV, with the TV and the shelves around it being a little inset, so I can hide an electronic projector screen in it and roll it down in the future for movie viewing smile.gif

Thanks for all the feedback, the more I talk about it with other folks I'm slowly getting to the same conclusion you've reached...
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