2013 Panasonic S60 & S64 DIY Noise Reduction Experiments - illustrated - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 105 Old 11-22-2013, 05:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Update at 1,705 hours on my TV - approximately 1,300 of those hours have been with automotive sign type magnet sheets in place on the back panel:

No buzzing, but then as stated before, this TV only ever buzzed when the upper back panel screws were loose.

Regarding popping: I thought I had perfection sometimes but I can occasionally hear popping when the sound is off but it is a well dampened "tick" and nothing like the original long duration "BONG" type of popping that was badly exacerbated by the large steel sheet metal back panel. Unattenuated, that thing can ring like a sour sounding gong.

I think the "ticking" increased some going into the cold season. I suppose that makes sense since average room temps are in the 60's instead of 80's. Expansion and contraction, etc.

It is very rare that I'm able to hear a "tick" when the sound is on. Maybe once or twice a month. The noise problem is, in effect, solved but is the risk of the magnet sheets for heat or damage caused by magnetism too high? So far, I've had no problems. However, this remains UNKNOWN. As said before, I suggest you spare your TV the risk and let my TV be the test subject at risk. I now think this will remain unknown even after a year. Why? It's only 1 TV and that is NOT a trend.

I am not seeing any problems with the PQ that might have been caused by the magnetic field of the magnet sheets. Staples or other brand computer printable type magnet sheets are thinner and have a much weaker magnetism. Would those be lower risk for heat and magnetism while providing good attenuation? I do not know since I haven't tried them.

I've ceased temperature testing. Those tests were mostly in the 80 to 82*f room temp range so beware if you decide to accept the risk and try the magnet sheets as a sound deadener in a warmer room or with the panel in sunlight or higher humidity, etc. As already covered ad nauseam throughout the thread, any work you do on your TV is AT YOUR OWN RISK. You break it, you bought it.

I seriously doubt that magnet sheets could cause added buzzing. Or if they actually did, removing them from the area of the power board would seem very likely to return buzzing to previous levels. However, I can't prove it. And once heard, you can't 'unhear' it. Additionally, there are other variables and questions and risks, so I continue to believe that the best advice is to follow what is in Bullet One, Post One. Do nothing and see if popping improves on its own.

Aside from attenuation with the magnet sheets, just as others have said, the severity and frequency of the popping seems to be reducing over time. In the not distant future, I may decide that the potential risks of the magnet sheets outweigh the benefits and remove them. Thankfully, that will take less than a minute.

I suppose since it took so many months and almost 1,700 hours for the frequency to reduce significantly, best advice is: Decide if you can live with the popping PERMANENTLY during the return period and swap or return it if you don't think you can live with it for a very long time. Some say it will reduce a lot in the first month and maybe your TV will do that. That is not what my TV did. But then, I tinkered with it a lot and that could have delayed things?

I haven't monitored this thread in a long while. If you have any questions, feel free to pm me for a more prompt response. OTOH, I think I've pretty well covered everything I could think of in this comparatively short thread.

If for some reason my TV exhibits any problems in the future, I'll be sure to post that info promptly regardless of whether I think any problems are related to the work done or not.

Enough people have questioned whether the magnet sheets will add too much heat or a detrimental magnetic field that I still cannot recommend it. It's darned effective for damping out the annoying ringing of the back panel, but as stated so often, it will have to be AT YOUR OWN RISK. Yeah, I know. I'm sounding like a broken record now.
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post #92 of 105 Old 11-22-2013, 05:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Duplicate post. Already covered it just fine.
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post #93 of 105 Old 11-25-2013, 06:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I thought the idea of giving my TV a try without magnet sheets at these higher hours of usage might have merit. No sense ignoring an idea just because it was in a mix with a spate of unacceptable behavior. So I took the magnet sheets off today while the TV was turned off and cold to see if maybe it was time to shelve them.

It will come as little surprise that it was a waste of time.

Popping returned to a "BONG" sort of sound. Not as loud as before, but still unacceptable. Back on with the magnet sheets. I may try removing some at a later date. At 1,700 hours, my TV's popping would still be very audible over normal volume. It has improved some, but not nearly as quickly as reported by others. How often we read it, but think this is simply because TVs vary from one to the next.
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post #94 of 105 Old 12-13-2013, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

aman74,

No, I do not.

Let's examine a few things since fault is the central theme of your comments.

Over in the S64 owner's poll thread occurring after you posted the above quoted text, you state that you might return your S64 due to "blurring" (not specific whether you meant motion blurring or 'downshifting' to 480 res or what). Although that is a later post than the above quote, you don't mention anything at all about buzzing there..? How can that be if buzzing became so bad that you are "out a TV"?? Are we to reasonably conclude that you changed your mind about buzzing?

Next, your statements to Cravit8 about whether you knew and accepted what "at your own risk" means seem like a (intentionally?) moving target. On the one hand, you say you accepted the risk, on the other hand, your comments make clear that you'd like to assign blame to me or to this thread.

Let's evaluate what took place: 1.) You decided not to follow my very first posted advice in the thread that is even termed therein with the warning that it is "safest" ... and then 2.) By your own statements, you followed that decision by deciding you need not read the entirety of a very short thread (3 pages at the time of your complaint) even while ignoring first advice. eek.gif 3.) Following those actions, you proceeded placing your TV at risk. 4.) And next, you believe that thread content could somehow have convinced you not to take this irrational course of action? 5.) You don't state what modification experiment covered in the thread allegedly caused increased buzzing. How can I post a warning about buzzing since you didn't say what you did or whether you can isolate which modification may have caused it? Did you not read repeated comments in the thread about buzzing?

That you choose to try to assign blame after such reckless actions and bizarre reasoning is absurd. mad.gif

It's not unusual for anyone to be angry when they make a mistake. However, your anger towards me or towards this thread is obviously misplaced. I suggest you stop this and accept responsibility for your own mistakes.

You need to get your 'facts' right: Warnings are not "at the end" as you stated. Had you read even the entirety of post number 1, it seems undeniable you would then know that warnings begin there... first in the title with the word "experiments" and then right in post 1 - the first warning stating what is "safest" in bullet 1 followed by other warnings IN POST ONE. In fact, the thread is rife with warnings... from beginning to end - almost ridiculously so. And though you (conveniently?) neglected to say so, there is already repeated mention of buzzing when the back panel screws are loose. rolleyes.gif Next, you imply the thread is useless since most of the experiments didn't help. Actually, the reasonable person will see that is perhaps the greatest value of the thread. By knowing what didn't work, readers will save their time and reduce their risk by knowing what NOT to try. How could you have missed this plain fact? rolleyes.gif

As outlined in the above paragraph, your comments are incorrect and sometimes insulting. It is good to know that AVS forum moderators do not tolerate insulting comments. Maturity is an expectation for participation here.

I view your comments not as a polite and perhaps valuable suggestion. Instead, though done with somewhat clever spin, I view your comments as an impolite and illogical accusation. Therefore, hereafter, I am not editing post 1. In that way, thread participants will see what took place. I am confident the majority opinion will be reasonable and accurate. I believe the reasonable person will agree that if someone will decide to proceed recklessly as outlined above, no amount of warnings will stop them. That this thread has a bumper crop of repeated warnings only proves the point.
Regarding buzzing fixes: Other than repairs by a qualified TV tech, I know of none. I know how a back panel is properly removed. However: Since you do not fully accept the meaning and gravity of "at your own risk", a friendly suggestion is that you attempt no further DIY projects. wink.gif

For others considering internal sound deadening for whatever reason: Please consider that thermal deflection will be different with material inside than outside. Running temps will be higher or lower; I suspect higher. Also, most sound deadening sheets and aerosols are not rated for high temps. Some autobody type deadeners stay soft and sticky and flowing even when not at high temp. They may flow severely and cause damage if subjected to heat. Finally, when I had my TV's back panel screws loose and it buzzed as outlined a long while ago in the thread, the sound seemed to emanate straight out the upper vents and NOT primarily from the sheet metal of the back panel. We certainly cannot cover any vents so I seriously doubt the idea will help. IMHO, probably best to can this particular idea - no offense intended.

Some have placed home type sound deadening foam tiles or such on the wall behind the TV and some say it helps. However, variables like possibly restricting air flow to a wall mounted TV or even just working near any TV make it all 100% "at your own risk" and zero percent "at MY own risk". tongue.gif

edit: It's 3 weeks later now and you've not replied. If you want to post a warning about buzzing allegedly being increased from doing anything in here, feel free to do so at any time. You'll obviously need to post which modification you think caused it and why you believe this. It won't be at the beginning of the thread but that's fine. The thread is short and is already flooded with warnings. While you're at it, an apology would be nice, too. smile.gif

I haven't replied to you because your behavior is truly over the top. You followed me around in other threads sniping at me and bringing up this thread and making insinuations that I may be lying, as you've also done here.

I fully understand at your own risk. It's pretty much standard fare if you go messing around with electronics. As I pointed out, my only issue was that you found out that there was a strong correlation to buzzing when messing with the screws and chose not to simply update your op. In fact, you ignored that completely and didn't even acknowledge my post for quite some time, something you're now accusing me of.

I have two tv's, one is to go to my moms, if after evaluating the pros and cons we decide they can be lived with. She's older and can't hear the buzzing. This is really none of your business though.

I'd appreciate it if you stop replying to anything I post. I haven't visited your thread again, so don't bother me.

As for the other drivel you've posted, I can only suggest you look in the mirror.
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post #95 of 105 Old 12-13-2013, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Your focused attempt at troublemaking and misrepresentation of facts was already addressed in post 90. As a parting gift, welcome to my blocked list.

Adios My Friend.
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post #96 of 105 Old 12-13-2013, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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(second) Buzzing warning removed. It was well covered and conspicuous as heck 5 months ago.
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post #97 of 105 Old 12-13-2013, 10:58 PM - Thread Starter
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May as well include the usual update:

1,913 hours and I continue to like this TV a LOT.

Everything is still ok. Zero buzzing, popping only slightly heard occasionally when the sound is off and somewhat less often than 1,600 hours ago. No visible problems from any magnetic field. I'm not measuring temps any more. Then again, it's winter so I'd less expect heat failure right now anyway. 1,913 hours on the TV at present and the 'honeymoon' effect still isn't over!

Even more often than before, I'm 'wowed' daily by this TV. Some of that is owing to the CNET dedicated TC-65PS64 settings I recently switched to. With sincere gratitude to all who have shared settings before, the CNET settings are currently my favorite shared settings for this panel so far - especially after dialing in brightness with AVCHD709 Near Black screen.

Next trial without magnet pads: Probably at or near 3,000 hours. I might try removing a few at that time instead of all 16. The last ones to go may be the small ones around the edges and probably the 2 'big honkers' on the large flats of sheet metal. Plan subject to change, of course.

After recent events, one might cynically say "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished". wink.gif Instead, I want to thank all the AVS members who have given such positive feedback for this thread both in posts and in pm's as well as those who contributed pictures and ideas. It's appreciated!

I'm not in the thread much except for updates, so for future questions, please feel free to pm me as you have been for a quicker response.
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post #98 of 105 Old 02-17-2014, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Monthly(?) update at 2,420 hours on my TC65-PS64:

Still lovin' the TV.

Magnet pads still haven't caused any problems. Popping continues with no reduction. That is: Not audible with sound on, but when the sound is off and the room is quiet, it pops as often as last reported. I'd really hoped the frequency of popping would have reduced but not so much. Anyway, with the magnet sheets attenuating the noise it's not bothersome.

Typical house creaks and snaps (etc) are much louder.

If not for the magnet sheets, I'd have had to swap this thing. Of course, it's outside the swap period now and there are no more on the shelves to swap with. I suppose I could've bugged Panny until they sent someone out with a felt kit. That's probably the safest bet if someone runs into this.
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post #99 of 105 Old 05-31-2014, 02:34 PM - Thread Starter
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3,349 hours. Ticking (can't really call it popping with the magnet pads in place) continues with about the usual frequency and intensity. That is, due to the attenuation of the magnet pads, I don't hear it if sound is on. With sound off, no change but not really annoying.

Nothing dire has happened in the past year with all the many magnet pads in place. No failures or warranty work. No visible image distortion. Still not sayin' it's safe. Your TV, your gamble.

My love affair with this tv continues. Very glad I bought it. Still using and liking CNET's dedicated S64 settings.

Note: While replacing a spammed up email account, I goofed up while changing things in the image server I use. So I think the pics are gone or soon will be. My bad.
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post #100 of 105 Old 05-31-2014, 03:29 PM
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It's been a year since I bought mine and still no pops or noticeable buzzing. Yep, my Sam's club membership expired a month ago. So just over a year and a month. If plasmas really have a lifetime of over 30 years, this set will be a fixture in my house for a very long time - hopefully the electronics can even last that long...
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post #101 of 105 Old 05-31-2014, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Just as you said, I likewise very much hope this TV lasts a very long time. Glad to hear yours continues to be noise free!
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post #102 of 105 Old 09-26-2014, 04:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Popping continues unabated. Same rate and severity as always. As before, with sound on, it is rarely noticeable even at close range due to the significant dampening of the magnet sheets.

I doubt that sprayed or sheet sound deadening could do better and those are NOT easily removable.

4,452 hours, still no problems or failures from the magnet sheets and no problems from the simple mechanics previously performed.

Still no buzzing thank gawd. PQ remains excellent.

Last edited by MountainMichael; 09-26-2014 at 04:21 AM.
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post #103 of 105 Old 09-26-2014, 12:17 PM
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Still no popping or noticeable buzzing on mine. No change in PQ. Will look up hours and update when I get a chance.

Sam's just sent me a free 60 day membership. But I've been using my girlfriend's Costco membership since it is less than a mile away and Sam's is 4-5 miles away.
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post #104 of 105 Old 09-27-2014, 01:10 AM
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Have you guys ruined any screws with all these adjustments? on my plasmas Panasonic used JIS (Japanese standard) type screw head so I have to be super careful with the Philips driver
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post #105 of 105 Old 09-27-2014, 02:11 PM
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My popping sound ended about 6 months after I bought the TV. I still get a similar sound from my movie poster frames occasionally. I's from expansion and room temperature changes. Never bothered me.

Ian

The best way to succeed in life is to act on the advice you give to others

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