Burn in help- is it fixable? - AVS Forum
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,

So I have experienced some burn in on my TV. It is a new tv, a Samsung p59d7000. I have only been using it for about 4 months. I use it to mainly play video games, watch tv and movies. When my screen is white on a show, or my xbox, I noticed in every corner except the top right that I have burn in which are images from my game. I copied one of the calibration settings from a user in the 7000 series thread. Is there anything I can try to fix this? I am not sure how it happened. I have my settings set so that the pixels shift, I have a screensaver on, and when I am not using it, I make sure it is turned off.

Any help? Is this fixable or am I screwed. It just sucks. $1900 TV and now it has all this crap on it. I noticed it about a week ago, but not sure how long it may actually have been on there.
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Old 07-01-2013, 08:10 PM
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Most likely what you have is IR (image retention) rather than burn-in. I've had it a couple of times on my 64D7000; the first time it was caused by the top right icon on the PS3 menu screen, and it took 150-200 hours of use for it to disappear again. I'm guessing yours will go away again as well after some time but of course you'll have to stay away from whatever elements that caused it in the first place, or make sure to only display them for short periods of time.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.

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Old 07-01-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the only way to tell if you have burn in vs image retention basically just seeing how long it lasts and ever goes away?
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Old 07-01-2013, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmbr1Ballr View Post

Is the only way to tell if you have burn in vs image retention basically just seeing how long it lasts and ever goes away?

Yes, that's how the two terms are normally used: IR if it's not permanent, burn-in if it is. So all burn-in would of course start out as IR.

I don't recall reading about any confirmed cases of burn-in here in recent times. There may be some, I just haven't seen any. There are several reports of really stubborn IR though.

I usually run the scrolling bar when I leave my set for more than a few minutes. I don't believe it does anything that regular content can't do but I don't have a cable box or anything else hooked up to my TV as I only use it for Blu-rays. And as far as I'm concerned, pretty much anything that isn't what caused the IR will help remove it (slowly).

Note the time that may be needed: I use my set for approx. 1,000 hours per year so the 150-200 hours it took for my first case of IR to clear up was a decent-sized chunk.

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not calibration.

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Old 07-02-2013, 02:30 AM
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IR usually rears its head as positive or negative; burn in is always negative.

Positive IR is where a bright image leaves a bright ghost.
Negative IR is where a bright image leaves a dimmer ghost.

Using this you can determine if it is positive IR and thus should go away no matter what. If it is negative you will have to hope it does.

It's amazing to me that people report burn in being a problem now. I have some 4~5 year old plasma sets with zero burn in. They have been left on Windows desktop for over 24 hours with only minor IR visible for about 5 minutes. Maybe the new, super thin, high energy efficiency plasmas are more susceptible.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure by your definition if I have positive or negative IR.

Basically I only notice it on white screens for the most part. If I really try and look for it, I can kind of see it on darkers areas too.
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Old 07-02-2013, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmbr1Ballr View Post

I'm not sure by your definition if I have positive or negative IR.

Basically I only notice it on white screens for the most part. If I really try and look for it, I can kind of see it on darkers areas too.

Run the screen wipe in your samsung TV. If it's anything like my old C7000 the screen wipe does a pretty good job.

However Disnes Wow's pixel flipper works much better IMO than most of the built in stuff. Leave it running while you go to bed and see whats still there in the AM

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Old 07-02-2013, 05:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmbr1Ballr View Post

I'm not sure by your definition if I have positive or negative IR.

Basically I only notice it on white screens for the most part. If I really try and look for it, I can kind of see it on darkers areas too.

The image you are seeing, does it appear as brighter logo/text/whatever on white or darker logo/text/whatever on white?
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

IR usually rears its head as positive or negative; burn in is always negative.

Positive IR is where a bright image leaves a bright ghost.
Negative IR is where a bright image leaves a dimmer ghost.

Using this you can determine if it is positive IR and thus should go away no matter what. If it is negative you will have to hope it does.

It's amazing to me that people report burn in being a problem now. I have some 4~5 year old plasma sets with zero burn in. They have been left on Windows desktop for over 24 hours with only minor IR visible for about 5 minutes. Maybe the new, super thin, high energy efficiency plasmas are more susceptible.
Well it is clear that the new Pannys are susceptible to IR though I have had good luck with mine. I do baby it compared to my LCD.
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Old 07-02-2013, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Run the screen wipe in your samsung TV. If it's anything like my old C7000 the screen wipe does a pretty good job.

However Disnes Wow's pixel flipper works much better IMO than most of the built in stuff. Leave it running while you go to bed and see whats still there in the AM
I agreed. Run the Disney Wow pixel flipper overnight for a few nights. Depending on how severe the IR is it make take several nights with the pixel flipper. If you are gaming a lot, I recommend getting into the habit of using a pixel flipper after any prolongeg gaming session.
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Old 07-02-2013, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

IR usually rears its head as positive or negative; burn in is always negative.

Positive IR is where a bright image leaves a bright ghost.
Negative IR is where a bright image leaves a dimmer ghost.

Using this you can determine if it is positive IR and thus should go away no matter what. If it is negative you will have to hope it does.

It's amazing to me that people report burn in being a problem now. I have some 4~5 year old plasma sets with zero burn in. They have been left on Windows desktop for over 24 hours with only minor IR visible for about 5 minutes. Maybe the new, super thin, high energy efficiency plasmas are more susceptible.

That's exactly it. Whatever they've been doing to make the panels smaller and more energy efficient has made the IR problems far worse than they used to be. I'm talking about the 2012 Panasonics; I've actually been hearing mostly good things about IR on the 2013 models..

For comparison my old 5080hd does high brightness desktop duty constantly and never gets IR lasting more than about 2 minutes while my GT50 gets IR that lasts hours from relatively mild use.
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Old 07-02-2013, 01:55 PM
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I cant speak for anything other than Samsungs as that's all I've owned, but I've not really had many issues. My old 2006-ish plasma has slight IR in the bottom right with the ESPN logo, but it's barely noticeable, even on a white background (and I'd leave that thing run for hours upon hours on ESPN).

I just bought an F5500 and have been careful to baby it for the first 100 hours. I'm probably 20 hours or so in on it and last night I decided to watch wrestling. WWE keeps their logo fixed in the lower left and it's not transparent whatsoever, and after three hours of watching there was no trace of the logo at all.

My biggest gripe with new plasmas is the buzzing. My old plasma did not buzz, period. The F5500 has a rather audible buzzing that I'm still not sure about. People keep saying it's normal and to live with it, but I feel it's kind of loud (I can easily hear it over regular volume programming while sitting 6-7 feet away).
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:03 PM
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I've got a good feeling it's due to the panel and glass being so thin. When I was fixing my TH-42PZ80B and TH-46PZ80B, they would buzz really, really loudly without the case, even if the picture was fine. Putting the case on wasn't enough though; I had to screw it down to stop the buzzing. I'm guessing it has something to do with resonance. But with a thinner panel and thinner metal, the compromise may be more buzzing.

One other thing I noticed when working on a relatively modern 2011 Samsung PS43D450 (720p 43") was there was just one large inductor on the X-main board (plasma common drive) making all the buzzing noise. Simply touching this component reduced the buzzing by about 80%. I have a feeling that they can't suppress the high frequency vibration produced by this component in any reliable manner.
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Old 07-02-2013, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

I've got a good feeling it's due to the panel and glass being so thin. When I was fixing my TH-42PZ80B and TH-46PZ80B, they would buzz really, really loudly without the case, even if the picture was fine. Putting the case on wasn't enough though; I had to screw it down to stop the buzzing. I'm guessing it has something to do with resonance. But with a thinner panel and thinner metal, the compromise may be more buzzing.

One other thing I noticed when working on a relatively modern 2011 Samsung PS43D450 (720p 43") was there was just one large inductor on the X-main board (plasma common drive) making all the buzzing noise. Simply touching this component reduced the buzzing by about 80%. I have a feeling that they can't suppress the high frequency vibration produced by this component in any reliable manner.

That's interesting.

My current solution is going to be to mount the television in the inlet in the room and put some sound absorbing foam on the walls to the left and right of the TV. I'm hoping that will alleviate some/most of the buzzing. If not, I'm probably going to give Samsung a ring.
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Old 07-03-2013, 03:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Run the screen wipe in your samsung TV. If it's anything like my old C7000 the screen wipe does a pretty good job.

However Disnes Wow's pixel flipper works much better IMO than most of the built in stuff. Leave it running while you go to bed and see whats still there in the AM
I have been running the samsung scrolling for about 20hours now and no change yet. Sorry for my ignorance, but where can I find the disney pixel flipper?
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Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

The image you are seeing, does it appear as brighter logo/text/whatever on white or darker logo/text/whatever on white?
I not positive but I would guess both. The bottom left and right hand corner have text which pretty much looks like a different shade of white on white. The top left corner has a square box with a triangle in the middle which appears darker then the other two corners.
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I agreed. Run the Disney Wow pixel flipper overnight for a few nights. Depending on how severe the IR is it make take several nights with the pixel flipper. If you are gaming a lot, I recommend getting into the habit of using a pixel flipper after any prolongeg gaming session.
I have my samsung set so the pixels shift every four minutes. Is that not the same thing? I think it was set that way out of the box.
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Old 07-03-2013, 05:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nmbr1Ballr View Post

I have been running the samsung scrolling for about 20hours now and no change yet. Sorry for my ignorance, but where can I find the disney pixel flipper?
I not positive but I would guess both. The bottom left and right hand corner have text which pretty much looks like a different shade of white on white. The top left corner has a square box with a triangle in the middle which appears darker then the other two corners.
I have my samsung set so the pixels shift every four minutes. Is that not the same thing? I think it was set that way out of the box.

The Pixel Flipper is found on the Disney WOW calibration disc, you would need to buy it. I believe its 15 bucks on amazon. It tends to IMO work much better than the screen wipe function in the TV.

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