VT60 65" problem 2 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 06:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here's my second problem and worse than the first. It's taken me a few weeks to test this set in every way. I have all HDMI. Port one is my connection from DRV and TV provider. Port two have my new Panasonic blye ray player. The following problem happens during TV shows, renting a movie from my provider and watching DVD's.
During various dark scenes, night times, dimly lit rooms etc, anything that's either black or very dark gets covered in a very grainy/snowy appearance. In fact it's so thick you can't make out the underlining features. When I look at the TV closely you can see what looks like a pattern of some sort that looks like it's almost on top of and away from the picture. Looks like tiny little squares. Very strange. Seeing this grainy look ruins the scene and goes away once the entire scene changes. Never happens during bright environments. I was looking at the blue ray Dirty Hairy the other day and there is this forest scene during the night time. The picture was wall to wall grain. It was just terrible. All you could see was DH running through the middle of the forest and the surrrounding trees were coverered in this grainy texture. The moment the scene changes it's back to normal pic. I talked to the manager from the store that I bought it from and he tried to tell me I was being PICKY and that no one else has called in with these problems. I told hiim so what, doesn't mean I can't have the one TV that has a defect. Get this......offerd me to bring it back and buy a more expensive Samsung model.
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post #2 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 06:22 PM
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Did you try running directly from your BR player to the set?

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post #3 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 06:24 PM
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What you are seeing is normal for plasma. Its called dithering. All plasmas have this on dark scenes. You can see it from up close but not from your normal viewing distance. You can perform a basic calibration for brightness, contrast, color, etc and it should help with it.

You can use the free calibration disk here

http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration

Going further, a professional calibration would be ideal for a high end set such as yours.

Secondly, if you are seeing tiny squares, they could be compression artifacts. Hi def content from TV providers is highly compressed. DVDs are not high def. Try watching a quality bluray with dark scenes (Dark Knight) with a bluray player. You should not see this behavior with uncompressed bluray content
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 06:26 PM
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Michael.

Instead of starting a new thread for each question, post here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk.

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post #5 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Larry.........I'm a new-b and feel fortunate to find this site. I will try to improve,
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post #6 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks everyone. I have have a problem with spending $3000 and then getting told that's the way they work. I retired my Sony KDF 60" LCD that never gave me any of these inconsistant picture problems. The grainy look I have descibed is a major visual problem. I have a new blue ray Alien Quad Ant. that I have been waiting to see on a quality set-up which I thought I was investing in. All of those Alien movies are in dark environments so what? I'm going to see them with this un-watchable grainy picture? I was told that all of the past problems with plasmas had been corrected. Apparently this has not been. This is a major distraction. Again, I don't think a $3000 investment should end with," that's the way it is".
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440michael View Post

Thanks everyone. I have have a problem with spending $3000 and then getting told that's the way they work. I retired my Sony KDF 60" LCD that never gave me any of these inconsistant picture problems. The grainy look I have descibed is a major visual problem. I have a new blue ray Alien Quad Ant. that I have been waiting to see on a quality set-up which I thought I was investing in. All of those Alien movies are in dark environments so what? I'm going to see them with this un-watchable grainy picture? I was told that all of the past problems with plasmas had been corrected. Apparently this has not been. This is a major distraction. Again, I don't think a $3000 investment should end with," that's the way it is".
I agree with you there, however I doubt many of the folks who frequent this sub-forum won't. They've drank the Kool-Aid and believe that Plasmas can walk on water.


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post #8 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 440michael View Post

Thanks everyone. I have have a problem with spending $3000 and then getting told that's the way they work. I retired my Sony KDF 60" LCD that never gave me any of these inconsistant picture problems. The grainy look I have descibed is a major visual problem. I have a new blue ray Alien Quad Ant. that I have been waiting to see on a quality set-up which I thought I was investing in. All of those Alien movies are in dark environments so what? I'm going to see them with this un-watchable grainy picture? I was told that all of the past problems with plasmas had been corrected. Apparently this has not been. This is a major distraction. Again, I don't think a $3000 investment should end with," that's the way it is".

You shouldn't see the dithering at normal viewing distance. Only when you get like one to two feet away from the screen should it be apparent. If you're seeing it while sitting six plus feet away, then there is a problem.
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post #9 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I agree with you there, however I doubt many of the folks who frequent this sub-forum won't. They've drank the Kool-Aid and believe that Plasmas can walk on water.

I'm guessing you're a plasma hater?

Anyway, to the OP, what settings are you using? Specifically your brightness. It sounds like you might have it set too high, this can lead to washed out images during dark scenes and will make the dither/noise much more visible. Try lowering and see what happens.


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post #10 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

I agree with you there, however I doubt many of the folks who frequent this sub-forum won't. They've drank the Kool-Aid and believe that Plasmas can walk on water.

I'm guessing you're a plasma hater?

Anyway, to the OP, what settings are you using? Specifically your brightness. It sounds like you might have it set too high, this can lead to washed out images during dark scenes and will make the dither/noise much more visible. Try lowering and see what happens.
No, I just don't trust Kool-Aid. In case you haven't noticed this sub-forum is rife with posts about image retention, burn in, buzzing, weak whites, noisy fans, grainy dark areas, dithering, hot running and so on. Yet almost everyone expounds that plasma is the best thing since Rabbit Ears. That's what I mean by the Kool-Aid. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes...


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post #11 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

No, I just don't trust Kool-Aid. In case you haven't noticed this sub-forum is rife with posts about image retention, burn in, buzzing, weak whites, noisy fans, grainy dark areas, dithering, hot running and so on. Yet almost everyone expounds that plasma is the best thing since Rabbit Ears. That's what I mean by the Kool-Aid. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes...

And what do you own? I promise it has issues too. On forums like these you'll only hear about issues. Ive had a Panasonic VT25, VT30, VT50 and now a VT60. The issues you mention, i have never experienced other than IR which isnt an issue at all.

So, by all means, please tell me what is the prefect TV that has no issues!


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post #12 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

No, I just don't trust Kool-Aid. In case you haven't noticed this sub-forum is rife with posts about image retention, burn in, buzzing, weak whites, noisy fans, grainy dark areas, dithering, hot running and so on. Yet almost everyone expounds that plasma is the best thing since Rabbit Ears. That's what I mean by the Kool-Aid. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes...

And what do you own? I promise it has issues too. On forums like these you'll only hear about issues. Ive had a Panasonic VT25, VT30, VT50 and now a VT60. The issues you mention, i have never experienced other than IR which isnt an issue at all.

So, by all means, please tell me what is the prefect TV that has no issues!
The ghost of things you've watched isn't an issue? I don't think there is a trouble free technology. I have a full array dimming backlit LED set that cost about one third what a VT-60 does, and yes it isn't without fault. Fortunately there is no noticeable clouding or flashlighting and it's mounted in the corner so the viewing angles are ok. However, being that the backlight dims when there is a single line of text (like during movie credits) that text tends to be dimmer than if there's a screenful of it. But leaving it on for hours of internet browsing is something I don't have to worry about. Which sometimes happens. It also has no buzzing or fan noise. I'm just agreeing with the OP that:
Quote:
I don't think a $3000 investment should end with," that's the way it is"


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post #13 of 18 Old 07-05-2013, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olyteddy View Post

No, I just don't trust Kool-Aid. In case you haven't noticed this sub-forum is rife with posts about image retention, burn in, buzzing, weak whites, noisy fans, grainy dark areas, dithering, hot running and so on. Yet almost everyone expounds that plasma is the best thing since Rabbit Ears. That's what I mean by the Kool-Aid. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes...

Burn-in isn't really an issue anymore unless you work really hard at ruining your TV, which I don't know why you would. Dithering isn't an issue either unless you enjoy sitting with your face next to the TV. The main issues with plasmas are the buzzing and heat they produce. On the flip side, with LED's you get uneven light/flashlighting and poor motion performance. There are positives and negatives to both, you just have to figure out which you'd rather deal with.
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-06-2013, 02:18 AM
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Burn in and IR is a serious problem with newer energy efficient panels, a LOT more frequent than it ever was. Older, energy sucking panels basically didn't have any problem with it.
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post #15 of 18 Old 07-06-2013, 03:00 AM
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Burn in and IR is a serious problem with newer energy efficient panels, a LOT more frequent than it ever was. Older, energy sucking panels basically didn't have any problem with it.

From what I've observed, I agree with this statement.
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-06-2013, 10:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Most of the past problems with plasmas have been corrected. Low gloss screen, low heat, burn in issues. Keep in mind most all of the stores that sell TV's have the picture jacked up to the max. so they look extra bright in the store. The first thing I always do is look at the picture controls and every time they have them turned up. I thought I asked all the right questions before I invested in this TV. I had no idea that this grainy environment was part of the plasma deal. I'm about 6-7 feet away and at times...IT IS BAD!
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-06-2013, 11:49 AM
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Can you tell us your tv settings ? What mode are you on (standard, thx, etc) What is your brightness and contrast set to ? It can also be the source ..garbage in garbage out. Generally older movies are "grainier" that those filmed in the past 3 or so years. The alien movies are old...even if they were remastered to bluray, they will contain artifacts and graininess in the source. Try the suggestions in my earlier post (performing a basic calibration and watching Batman Begins, Dark Knight, etc on bluray) You should not see any artifacts or graininess in that picture..
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post #18 of 18 Old 07-09-2013, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the suggestions. I know that older movies aren't going to be like nowadays. I keep my settings on the low side of the middle compared to the factory settings. I have been noticing this fuzz out grainy look even on TV shows. As long as it 's in a dark or dimly lit environment it seens like a crap shoot as to what I'm what I gonna see.
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