Question about 4K Plasma TV - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Any thoughts on the possibility of 4K plasma ? or has it reached its peak ?
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 08:45 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Whatever1 View Post

Any thoughts on the possibility of 4K plasma ? or has it reached its peak ?

No 4K PDP's. Anyway, why are you concerned with 4K? There is 0 content and unless you're going to buy an 84 inch screen and sit 3 feet away, its useless.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 04:11 PM
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4K ain't gonna happen with PDPs unless:
- spatial discharge happens (currently on three electrode discharge), and;
- OLED is too expensive to make in large screens (possible) and PDPs are repositioned as a mid-range low cost product in between LED-LCD and OLED.

Problem with 4K is the plasma cells are much smaller so very hard to make stable. I think even if it does happen, the smallest you will have is around 60" diagonal.
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 05:49 PM
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I work for a company that is "priming the pump" for 4k but it still a few more years out. I just bought a 65" plasma.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 11:55 AM
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I can't understand why they don't put 4 42" sets together for an 84" set, or are the yields too low?
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 02:01 PM
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Well -- they did. Almost. Panasonic produced a 103" 4K plasma, which consisted of four 50" panels (I think they used the uncut size of the glass, so it's slightly larger than four stacked 50" panels.) They also produced a 152" plasma, which consisted of 9-up 50" panels, also 4K resolution. Note that these were single sheets of glass, not separate panels.

As you can imagine, they were extremely expensive and more technology demos than practical TVs, though you could buy the 152" for a mere $800,000.

The 152" consumed as much as 7,500W in operation...!
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-19-2013, 07:36 AM
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I should have clarified, I meant reasonably priced! I'd think they could do an 84" for $6,000 or so. That's probably about as big as a normal house could take and would make me rethink getting a 4k projector for my 106" screen.

My guess is that 4k projectors will get down into the sub $2k range quickly.
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-19-2013, 11:59 AM
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I don't honestly know why anyone would buy a TV above 50" but then again I live in the UK, our houses are considerably smaller and a typical distance to the TV is 8 to 10 feet.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-19-2013, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

I don't honestly know why anyone would buy a TV above 50" but then again I live in the UK, our houses are considerably smaller and a typical distance to the TV is 8 to 10 feet.

I have a 55" sit about 8 feet back could definitely go larger. There are folks here that sit 6 feet back from a 65' smile.gif

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post #10 of 23 Old 07-19-2013, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

I don't honestly know why anyone would buy a TV above 50" but then again I live in the UK, our houses are considerably smaller and a typical distance to the TV is 8 to 10 feet.

50" is consider the norm here in North America. Anything smaller just goes to the bedroom.

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post #11 of 23 Old 07-19-2013, 12:51 PM
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I have fixed 40" in the parent's house, 46" in my house... The 46" is too big, and the 40" is too small. For me the ideal size is 42", but Panasonic only make the odd 1080p plasma in that range.
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-25-2013, 07:22 PM
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I spent a long time looking at OLED and 4K TVs today. The 4K had amazing clarity - just stunning. However the motion was as bad as any LCD/LED TV I've ever seen. The OLED had fantastic blacks. The OLED colors were a little over saturated and I think the plasmas still had better motion. If I could buy a 4K plasma I'd LOVE to get one - particularly in a size exceeding 70"
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 08:41 AM
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I agree with boe about the 4K plasma at 65 or 70 would be great. The thing is can it be done and we see demos in stores like Best Buy and Costco. Will it go beyond 600 Hz like say maybe 800 Hz or even 1000 Hz. Wish Pionner would come back out and make HDTVs, and come out with at least 2 4K Plasma HDTV at 55 in., 60 in. and 70 in.. Wonder what would the price be for any 4K Plasma HDTV in the market.
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latinoheat View Post

50" is consider the norm here in North America. Anything smaller just goes to the bedroom.

I can remember way, way, way, way back in the day watching a 13" CRT TV in my bedroom... now I have a 50" PDP. I also have a 60" PDP in my living room and would definitely prefer a larger display.
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 09:30 AM
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I don't see 4K plasmas happening. Plasmas won't be around for too much longer. But on the bright side, the future is all about OLED (or as I call it "the next plasma").

 

Personally, I'll be waiting for 8K OLED to be in affordable price range before getting any sort of next-gen panel. 4K is going to be the 720 of higher resolution displays.

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post #16 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 09:47 AM
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This article that Vincent Teoh @ HDTVtest just put up has a good explanation:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/4k-plasma-201311133417.htm

David Mackenzie
DVD/BD Compressionist/Author
Reviewer & Tech Consultant, HDTVtest.co.uk
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

I can remember way, way, way, way back in the day watching a 13" CRT TV in my bedroom... now I have a 50" PDP. I also have a 60" PDP in my living room and would definitely prefer a larger display.

Yes, sadly I remember a 13 or 19" black and white in the basement with crank knobs, and constantly adjusting the vertical hold every time you turned it on. Now 4K is just good enough smile.gif- motion on LCD is not fit for a dog and 65" seems pretty wimpy unless it is going into the bathroom.
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 10:23 AM
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Even if you could overcome all the engineering challenges to just make a 4k PDP, you still have arbitrary energy mandates that must be fulfilled in order to sell your product in some major markets in the world. Look at how long it took Panasonic to produce a product equivalent to the Kuro. The energy regulations that were introduced by the EU came down hard on PDP tech and it required a good degree of innovation and reengineering to make PDPs as good as they are today while consuming significantly less energy than their pre-regulation brethren. As such, in economic terms, PDP has hit its end-of-life in terms of consumer tech.

Also, I don't see LG and Samsung dumping tons of money into PDP considering each have significant LCD production capabilities and the existing LCD screen tech will make 4k relatively easy for large panels compared to the work required to create a 4K capable PDP.

I am just glad that Panasonic put together a fantastic product line for their final year of PDP production. It is a fitting (if though sad) end to Panasonic PDPs.
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 11:30 AM
 
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^The last generation Kuros don't use significantly less power than the 2013 Panasonic line IIRC. 4K is a different beast altogether, of course.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 12:28 PM
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^ I don't recall when exactly the EU regs hit the PDP industry and frankly display power consumption was an afterthought at that time. I did some quick research and came up with some decent info that shows you are correct and how little was left to wring out of PDP compared to the Kuro.

The closest I have found for measurements of the 60" 6020FD show that it is between 388w-434w with no power saving settings and 302w-330w on Mode2. That is just from some guy and his Kil-a-Watt but only thing I could find at the moment. CNet measured their 60" ZT60 after calibration at 360w and the 60" EU ZT65 was measured at 279w (2D mode) by Dave MacKenzie. The 9.5g probably improved on that but I don't really feel like scouring google or AVS to dig it up. The numbers suggest that during this span Panasonic brought down power consumption of their PDPs by 7%-17% vs the 9G Kuro. With such gains over a 4-5 year period, it would seem to indicate to me that it would require reimagining and redesigning PDP tech to yield any significant additional energy savings. Unfortunately, just another reason why PDP tech is heading to EOL since 4k would require 4x the number of cells versus 1080p with a substantial increase in power consumption. As much as I love PDP, the increase in power required would make me consider whether a 4k PDP was worth it.

If someone has better / more controlled measurements of the Kuro vs. the ZT60 it would be interesting to see. I consider the numbers above anecdotal at best since there is no common control between the measurements recorded from the three different sources. Thanks for the pseudo-research project Vinnie.
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post #21 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 12:34 PM
 
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I knew it was close...in the name of full disclosure, it should also be noted the last generation Kuros had a higher max peak brightness than today's Panasonic plasmas.
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-13-2013, 12:41 PM
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Yep, that is one of the reasons I dislike the numbers I was able to find. In an ideal world, I would love to measure the power usage of each panel at the same calibrated light output but unfortunately I'm missing a Kuro, a ZT65, and my ZT60 is 5" too large. That, and I don't think anyone will oblige me in such a request! wink.gif
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-14-2013, 01:49 PM
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I take it all of you would not trust Seiki's 4K HDTVs. Seeing that they are cheapper then OLEDs, and other 4Ks. It might not be that great when being compared to others.

Here are the links to the info I found on them,

http://seiki.com/products/seikiPro/4k.php

http://www.blackfri.com/sears

The Sears Black Friday ad it on the last page.
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