Hired guys to wall mount my plasma, now TV is broken, should I sue based on circumstances? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a 2010 Samsung 58 inch 3d plasma. 2 weeks ago I moved. After moving in I noticed a tiny spider crack in the screen, but the TV worked fine, picture was perfect.

Yesterday I contacted through Craigslist people to wall mount my TV for me. I told the guy on the phone about the crack and he said he knows someone who can repair the screen, and that he would give me his information when they come to mount the TV.
They came today to mount it to the wall. After they finished mounting the TV the crack spread up and down the whole height of the screen, and there is no picture at all. The guy told me when we discovered this that this can happen when moving the TV, but never once mentioned this risk until after the TV was mounted. He knew ahead of time that the screen had a tiny crack and I showed it to him when they got here, then after they mounted it and we discovered the crack spread and there was no picture he then told me that this is a risk when you move the TV with a crack already in it.

I called 3 different TV repair shops and they all said its cheaper to buy a new TV.

If I sue these people do I have a good case for them to reimburse me to fix it or replace it?

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post #2 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 11:54 AM
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That sucks. Which model do you have? I have a pn58c7000 and had to replace the panel after a clock tumbled and put a fist-sized asterisk on the screen...~$1100. Still less than a new comparable tv. Not sure about your chances with a lawsuit if you never got anything in writing, but good luck with it.
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post #3 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 11:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Would like to add the glass itself is smooth, its the inside part that has the crack.

, jamaqy5e.jpg9u7egame.jpg

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post #4 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

That sucks. Which model do you have? I have a pn58c7000 and had to replace the panel after a clock tumbled and put a fist-sized asterisk on the screen...~$1100. Still less than a new comparable tv. Not sure about your chances with a lawsuit if you never got anything in writing, but good luck with it.

Exactly the same model, PN58C7000

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post #5 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 12:07 PM
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If it's the inside portion that's damaged, the panel's done. The panel itself is only $600-700, the rest is installation if it makes a difference. It's a bunch of screws attaching it to the frame and more holding on the back panel cover, then a half dozen things that plug in. Best with two people as it's a big screen.
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post #6 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 12:29 PM
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I don't think you have any chance with a lawsuit as you didn't hire someone from a company but from Craigslist. Also, I am going to assume you didn't get a contract stating the terms of what was to be done and by whom, so again, you are out of luck. Also, did you make sure they had insurance before doing the job, if not again you are out of luck? And lastly, just off the top of my head, since it was a pre-existing condition to the TV they didn't do the initial damage, it just went further with them moving it. And as they said that can happen. Think of a crack in the windshield on a car, it starts out small and usually grows very quickly when you hit a bump in the road.

As for if you should try to repair it, that is beyond what knowledge I have, but I would think it might be something you could bring up with your homeowners insurance, maybe file a claim since it happened, the initial damage, during your move, maybe it would be covered, or partially covered that way.

Good luck.

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post #7 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Where do you get the panel from?

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post #8 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 01:55 PM
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post #9 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

I don't think you have any chance with a lawsuit as you didn't hire someone from a company but from Craigslist. Also, I am going to assume you didn't get a contract stating the terms of what was to be done and by whom, so again, you are out of luck. Also, did you make sure they had insurance before doing the job, if not again you are out of luck? And lastly, just off the top of my head, since it was a pre-existing condition to the TV they didn't do the initial damage, it just went further with them moving it. And as they said that can happen. Think of a crack in the windshield on a car, it starts out small and usually grows very quickly when you hit a bump in the road.

As for if you should try to repair it, that is beyond what knowledge I have, but I would think it might be something you could bring up with your homeowners insurance, maybe file a claim since it happened, the initial damage, during your move, maybe it would be covered, or partially covered that way.

Good luck.

+1.......an already "injured" panel, and he wants to know if he has any recourse...give me a break. not at all surprised though, typical society we live in.

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post #10 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 04:00 PM
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No, you can't sue, in my opinion (IANAL though) for the same reason as you cannot sue because that chip in your windscreen went all the way across after the mechanic looked at it. Not the guy's fault really, because the panel was already damaged...

However, one interesting point is these panels are very prone to sudden cracking and I believe Samsung would have covered you if you had called them immediately as and when the crack appeared. They may still cover you but they might not pay the full repair price, could leave you with e.g. labour to pay.
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post #11 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 06:37 PM
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Oh give me a break. You said the panel was already cracked. If those guys were smart (which it seems none of you are) they should have run. But are you serious? Suing over further damage to an already ruined set? Go drown your sorrows with a nice cup of McDonald's Coffee...tongue.gif
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post #12 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 06:41 PM
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Of course you can sue. But you can't win.

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post #13 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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But the set was not ruined, the TV had full picture and worked fine right before they came in. They were told of the existing crack before any agreement to come to my apartment and mount was made, and they made no mention of the risk of the crack spreading or the picture going out until after the damage was already done by them. In addition, they knew about the crack before any agreement was made, and they saw the crack before they did any work, and were still dumb enough to lay the TV flat down on the screen part to attach the bars that go on the TV for the mount.

I was asking if they had any liability for agreeing to take this job with full prior knowledge of the existing damage with no mention to me of the risks involved in the work they were doing, and only mentioned these risks after they had caused the final damage that made the crack spread and the picture disappear. If they had told me ahead of time that there was a risk of this happening then I never would have agreed to have it mounted in the first place, left it in the place it was in with a fully working picture until I could have a technician look at the TV to let me know what recourse I had in the condition it was in before they mounted the TV, and that condition was a TV that had full working picture even with a tiny spider crack. Because they made no mention of the risk before agreeing to take the job, I am trying to find out if they have any liability in causing the picture to stop working due to lack of any prior warning.
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post #14 of 30 Old 07-09-2013, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfetaz View Post

But the set was not ruined, the TV had full picture and worked fine right before they came in. They were told of the existing crack before any agreement to come to my apartment and mount was made, and they made no mention of the risk of the crack spreading or the picture going out until after the damage was already done by them. In addition, they knew about the crack before any agreement was made, and they saw the crack before they did any work, and were still dumb enough to lay the TV flat down on the screen part to attach the bars that go on the TV for the mount.

I was asking if they had any liability for agreeing to take this job with full prior knowledge of the existing damage with no mention to me of the risks involved in the work they were doing, and only mentioned these risks after they had caused the final damage that made the crack spread and the picture disappear. If they had told me ahead of time that there was a risk of this happening then I never would have agreed to have it mounted in the first place, left it in the place it was in with a fully working picture until I could have a technician look at the TV to let me know what recourse I had in the condition it was in before they mounted the TV, and that condition was a TV that had full working picture even with a tiny spider crack. Because they made no mention of the risk before agreeing to take the job, I am trying to find out if they have any liability in causing the picture to stop working due to lack of any prior warning.

I'm sorry but you shot yourself in the foot, why would you go ahead and pay someone to mount a cracked display? Regardless wether it was showing an image, it was already bound for failure. You need a new display, nothing you can do about it, you can try but paying for lawyers will cost you more than a new HDTV. Good luck.

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post #15 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 03:21 AM
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You can blame the people who mounted it, but the thing is, that would have probably have happened regardless of who mounted it on the wall. It's your problem, not theirs. Jeez I am so glad we do not have the same "sue everyone" idea in the UK.
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post #16 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 06:07 AM
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This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard..

Thats like having a puncture in your car tire, then suing the vallet for the cost of repair after he parked your car. It was already damaged.. not his fault it went flat on the way to the parking garage.

The TV was broken. It may have still worked, it may not have bothered you but it was broken. Anybody with any sort of life experience knows that when something cracks it's generally weakennd and the crack spreads. You could have knocked on the TV gently with your finger and it could have spread. Glass especially is very very temperamental. It's not their fault it broke. You took a risk moving the TV when it already had some damage. THE GUY SHOULD NOT HAVE HAD TO SAY TO YOU THAT IT WILL GET WORSE. Do you live under a rock?

If you do try to sue them I sincerely hope you lose and are required to pay the legal fee's for wasting the guys time.

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post #17 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 06:58 AM
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Lesson is don't use Craigslist to do work that should be done by professionals who are insured for these kind of things. Don't skimp out on a few dollars and use someone like this when you could have gotten it done through a reputable company and if something like this did go wrong you would have been covered.

You don't have any chance of winning, but as others have said you can sue and see what happens, crazier things have happened. That also assumes you can located these guys again to actually sue them!!

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post #18 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

Lesson is don't use Craigslist to do work that should be done by professionals who are insured for these kind of things. Don't skimp out on a few dollars and use someone like this when you could have gotten it done through a reputable company and if something like this did go wrong you would have been covered.

You don't have any chance of winning, but as others have said you can sue and see what happens, crazier things have happened. That also assumes you can located these guys again to actually sue them!!

You can indeed sue and see what happens, but that would definitely make you a dishonest [REDACTED] if you did. The TV was broken - physically cracked panel. Anyone who picked up and manipulated it was extremely likely to spread the crack. The fact that they thought they could do it without making the crack worse does not make this damage their fault, as the damage already existed. To be honest if you sued these guys I'd say it looked like you set them up for the lawsuit intentionally, whether it's true or not.

I'm not even sure if insured installers would cover this situation since the panel was already physically cracked. My guess is anyone professional enough to have insurance would have refused to touch the thing in the first place after they saw the damage.

*Edit: If the ethical implications don't have any impact, let's also remember that the most you would be entitled to is the value of the TV before the installation, which in this case is the value of a plasma TV with a cracked panel. So $0. Or maybe the value of the circuit boards as spare parts ($1-200?). Whether or not the TV worked doesn't change the fact that a cracked panel plasma is basically considered to be destroyed.
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post #19 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philwojo View Post

Lesson is don't use Craigslist to do work that should be done by professionals who are insured for these kind of things. Don't skimp out on a few dollars and use someone like this when you could have gotten it done through a reputable company and if something like this did go wrong you would have been covered.

You don't have any chance of winning, but as others have said you can sue and see what happens, crazier things have happened. That also assumes you can located these guys again to actually sue them!!

I can guarantee that even if a professionally insured company did this, they would not be held accountable and thats providing that they even agree to do it.

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post #20 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 12:04 PM
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Of course you can sue. But you can't win.

Going by most jury verdicts today, he probably has a good chance of winning.

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post #21 of 30 Old 07-10-2013, 12:12 PM
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Going by most jury verdicts today, he probably has a good chance of winning.

This is small claims court here.. The judge is going to laugh..

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post #22 of 30 Old 07-11-2013, 01:13 PM
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1) it'll cost more to "sue" than a new TV is worth
2) you won't win
3) chalk this one up to a "stupid tax". I've been there before - you just need to say "well, that was dumb" and move on.

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post #23 of 30 Old 07-12-2013, 08:22 AM
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Seems to me you would have more of a beef with the movers who originally cracked it, as opposed to the guys who mounted it later. Were the movers insured? Did you ask for compensation?

Or maybe you moved it yourself?

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post #24 of 30 Old 07-13-2013, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfetaz View Post

Would like to add the glass itself is smooth, its the inside part that has the crack.

jamaqy5e.jpg9u7egame.jpg

That looks like an impact crack in the panel, and could very well have been caused by a defect in the and not by the movers. Once the panel is cracked, it's on borrowed time before the crack eventually spreads and ultimately kills the panel or blows a circuit board. Usually a panel crack will shut the TV down immediately, but sometimes it will continue to operate for a while but the heat cycling of the glass as you turn the TV on then off over time eventually causes the crack to spread further. It could have been there before the move, then the movement or vibrations during the move caused it to spread a little more so now you can see it, then hanging it on the wall mount may have caused it to spread even more to the point that it can no longer operate.

There are hundreds of people who have posted here on AVS and in the huge Cracked Samsung threads on CNet who's panels cracked like this through no fault of their own.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/878176/anyone-else-have-samsung-plasma-defective-replacement-problem

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1130304/samsung-42in-plasma-warranty-joke

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1348871/new-lg-plasma-mystery-crack-inside#post_20721255

http://forums.cnet.com/1770-5_102-0.html?query=samsung+cracked+screen&tag=srch&searchtype=forums

http://forums.cnet.com/7723-13973_102-524375/cracked-internal-screen-on-new-samsung-plasma/

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post #25 of 30 Old 07-13-2013, 07:27 AM
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Oh give me a break. You said the panel was already cracked. If those guys were smart (which it seems none of you are) they should have run. But are you serious? Suing
over further damage to an already ruined set? Go drown your sorrows with a nice cup of McDonald's Coffee...tongue.gif

Karma is a bit$% you miserable SOB
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post #26 of 30 Old 07-13-2013, 08:48 AM
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Oh give me a break. You said the panel was already cracked. If those guys were smart (which it seems none of you are) they should have run. But are you serious? Suing over further damage to an already ruined set? Go drown your sorrows with a nice cup of McDonald's Coffee...tongue.gif

I'd encourage anyone who invokes McDonald's coffee in this context to watch 'Hot Coffee', now streaming on Netflix .. If you do, I'd be surprised if you used that reference the same way again ..
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post #27 of 30 Old 07-15-2013, 07:23 AM
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I'd encourage anyone who invokes McDonald's coffee in this context to watch 'Hot Coffee', now streaming on Netflix .. If you do, I'd be surprised if you used that reference the same way again ..

I don't know what the movie is about, but that particular McDonald's lawsuit was almost assuredly justified. Back then their coffee was extraordinarily hot (i'd burn myself just trying to take a sip while driving my super-stiffly suspended racecar to the track back in the day), and i know for a fact that scalding hot coffee can cause severe burns. Back in the mid-80's my 85-year-old grandmother was in the hospital for a few months trying to recover from a bad stroke and a nurse (despite her chart saying give no liquids) gave her a cup of very hot coffee, she spilled it on her abdomen, and it caused 3rd degree burns through all layers of skin and exposed her stomach muscles. She ended up dying from those burns a few weeks later. We were astounded that hot coffee could cause such severe burns, and shocked that those burns eventually killed her. It was just a hot cup of coffee.

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post #28 of 30 Old 07-15-2013, 07:28 AM
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^^^I used to have to make 200 mile early morning trips for training classes, and would stop halfway at McD's for coffee. It was way to hot to drink until it sat in the cupholder for 45 miles.

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post #29 of 30 Old 07-15-2013, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve S View Post

^^^I used to have to make 200 mile early morning trips for training classes, and would stop halfway at McD's for coffee. It was way to hot to drink until it sat in the cupholder for 45 miles.

Who needs a thermometer or a clock when you have a tripometer biggrin.gif

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post #30 of 30 Old 07-15-2013, 08:50 AM
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The documentary 'Hot Coffee' uses that particular McDonald's incident as an introduction to the bigger story of how corporations have effectively lobbied/bought a change in the ability for someone they damage to collect compensation, or even have a day in court.

The film makes clear that a lot of people have bought the corporate lobby version of events, which just wasn't/isn't true.

This thread started with the idea of a frivolous lawsuit, in my opinion, but the McDonald's suit most assuredly was not. See the film if you doubt that statement.
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