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post #1 of 373 Old 08-01-2013, 12:21 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone know what I should do to see if my horrible black level issues are related to voltages? All I know si the repair guy who put in a power supply did something to check the voltages from that to the boards or something, so I'm still not so sure there are any other voltage settings.

I know nobody else to check it out, have no way to prove there is a problem (to the warranty people), and nobody on the site has been helpful, so there is nothing to do thus far other than watch a messed up, expensive tv. Paid almost exactly to the dollar the same for this USED 111 as I did for a brand new hx929.
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post #2 of 373 Old 08-01-2013, 02:52 AM
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You may find this post and the one quoted within helpful.
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post #3 of 373 Old 08-01-2013, 04:49 AM
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Originally Posted by somelogin View Post

Anyone know what I should do to see if my horrible black level issues are related to voltages? All I know si the repair guy who put in a power supply did something to check the voltages from that to the boards or something, so I'm still not so sure there are any other voltage settings.

I know nobody else to check it out, have no way to prove there is a problem (to the warranty people), and nobody on the site has been helpful, so there is nothing to do thus far other than watch a messed up, expensive tv. Paid almost exactly to the dollar the same for this USED 111 as I did for a brand new hx929.

I can't remember ever seeing poor black levels being caused by or attributed to a hardware problem or a board defect so are you absolutely sure it's a physical defect or issue with a board etc and not a calibration issue? I'm curious why the technician replaced a power supply to fix a black level problem as i don't see how the power supply would have anything to do with it.

The reason this TV ended up on the used TV market could be due to a previous owner screwing up the calibration and he dumped it. That first night when you watched your just-bought Kuro were the black levels already horrible? Or were they inky black then later suddenly turned poor? In other words, were the black levels really good then suddenly become poor even though you didn't fiddle with the settings or service menu? If it suddenly took a turn for the worse then yeah it could have developed some sort of defect, but if it was poor when you first got it then it is likely a calibration issue.

If it's a defect, find a more qualifying technician who knows Pioneer displays.

A calibrator that's knowledgeable about the Kuros would surely be able to determine if the TV has a physical issue. A technician probably isn't savvy enough to determine if the black levels are up to snuff.

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post #4 of 373 Old 08-01-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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As far as I know the issue happened after using it a while, but I don't think I had watched anything with lights off for months after getting it, so there's now ay to 100% know. The seller insists it did not have a black level issue. For whatever that may be worth....

The reason I assume it's some physical issue is that if I turn contrast and brightness both to minimum levels, the black level is affected none at all. I would assume that no matter what other settings are changed, if those two can't get it looking black then something would have to be wrong. I certainly HOPE it's a settings issue, but there is another thread on here where a guy had the same exact problem and had it calibrated and the calibrator confirmed his contrast ratio was only one third the normal ratio, after calibration. This was three eyarsa go and he never got it fixed and sold it.

I've had a tough time getting a tv that didn't give me headaches, finally found this one and loved it other than the black levels, doesn't give me headaches, etc...., and now can't even get it fixed despite shelling out hundreds for an extended warranty. frown.gif There is only one authorized technician here apparently. At least, authorized by Pioneer.

The power supply, he had come out to check several issues I was having, including popping noises, and he did get some kind of error message related to the power supply. But it's even still popping, so that sure did no good. But as far as why I mentioned it here, some had claimed the power supply could cause it or bad voltage settings for it.

Also, this was manufactured in 2008, so before the batch where people had said worse black levels were more common. the technician claimed the panel itself passed all tests and was finel but the fact that he claims the black level looks oh so great proves he doesn't understand these tvs. And him saying it's "normal" for black to look gray! That is not normal on this set and I tried to get through to him that I tried a hx929, st50, st30 and all ahd MUCH blacker blacks. Heck, even a CCFL LCD I have has darker blacks, at elast on full black screens and black bars.

Thanks for the info. This is so depressing to find the right tv model for my needs and then it have this issue. If I knew a calibration would fix it, I would be very happy, but it's unlikely and would be $400+ down the drain on a tv I already wasted a ton on, if it can't improve much.
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post #5 of 373 Old 08-02-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Anyone? There's gotta be something I can do to get this working. And if anyone would SEE how bright it gets, they would know it's highly unlikely it can be done with settings. It's not like I have some nutty contrast and brightness. They're something like 37 and 0 or right around that.
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post #6 of 373 Old 08-05-2013, 01:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Bump.

Obviously, the tv repair field is ridiculously pathetic if it takes this long to ever get any help fixing one. Apparently, everyone thinks you should just throw your tv out a window when it needs repairing.
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post #7 of 373 Old 08-05-2013, 06:05 AM
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or you refuse to listen to everyone who has tried to help you rolleyes.gif

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post #8 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 01:00 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I have, have I? You mean like how I got a repair person to check it, I connected sources straight to the tv as suggested, I tried different inputs, etc? Is that what I "ignored"? Or are you considering a CALIBRATION to be "everything" suggested as that is the only thing suggested which I did not do? The tv is faulty. Plain and simple. If you're oh so sure that a calibration would fix it, then YOU pay the money for a calibration and if it really fixes it, i'll pay you back AND give more money to you as well. That would be easy profit for someone who's sure a calibration will fix it, so if you don't think that's a good deal, then you're not as sure as you claim that a calibration is the answer. I love how snobby other people are here, thinking others should waste their money. Go spend your own on a calibration of a broken tv.

Back on topic for anyone who wants to help, I still have no idea what to do to get this fixed. It's funny how all along people have said to get a repairman to look at it and that would oh so solve my issues and then when he did nothing to improve it and laughably said the black level looked good (worst level you'll ever see....) now the answer is a calibration, supposedly. lol If you can turn contrast and brightness to minimums and the black level is still horrible, a calibration is almost 100% meaningless. Also.... read. I mentioned another person on this site had the SAME problems as I have and it was AFTER CALIBRATION that he still had it and never got it fixed. Yep that's a wise use of money.... spend it on a calibration when you have already seen proof someone else did it and it did not fix anything. Easy to suggest when it's not your own money paying for something that will not fix it.
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post #9 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 07:17 AM
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Ok i have just read several of your past posts and it looks like you've only had ONE Pioneer technician evaluate your Kuro, is that right? And i presume he looked at the screen during the daytime and not in a darkened room? Is there another repair center in your area you can contact that may have a different technician that may be better at diagnosing your issue? Have you reached out to the extended warranty company to see if they can find or send out another technician?

As for the "people on here think they know everything and act smug about it, that surely those particular few would have solutions" comment, i can't remember seeing any Pioneer repair technicians posting here so maybe you're expecting too much technical knowledge from the forum members.

What i would do next is to try to find another Pioneer technician (either on your own or through your EW company) and see if you can get someone to come over after dark where the black level problem will be "glowingly obvious" to them.

I couldn't see where you posted your issue in any Kuro threads or in the Display Calibration forum so maybe try that. Some ISF Calibrators are experienced enough where they may know what particular board or component may be the cause of a poor black level reading from past experience.

And maybe reach out to a local ISF Calibrator that is very familiar with Kuros and see if he would be willing to evaluate your black levels for a small consulting fee and offer or suggest a course of action - be it a fresh Calibration to correct a previously poorly done one, or to positively determine that it is indeed a hardware issue and maybe he can write a letter verifying that it's not a calibration issue and is a flaw in the hardware that you can show your EW company so they can escalate your case.

And lastly, lose the adverse attitude toward the forum members that you've shown in your previous posts - we're not technicians here - just Plasma enthusiasts wink.gif

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post #10 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 08:34 AM
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Ok i have just read several of your past posts and it looks like you've only had ONE Pioneer technician evaluate your Kuro, is that right? And i presume he looked at the screen during the daytime and not in a darkened room? Is there another repair center in your area you can contact that may have a different technician that may be better at diagnosing your issue? Have you reached out to the extended warranty company to see if they can find or send out another technician?

As for the "people on here think they know everything and act smug about it, that surely those particular few would have solutions" comment, i can't remember seeing any Pioneer repair technicians posting here so maybe you're expecting too much technical knowledge from the forum members.

What i would do next is to try to find another Pioneer technician (either on your own or through your EW company) and see if you can get someone to come over after dark where the black level problem will be "glowingly obvious" to them.

I couldn't see where you posted your issue in any Kuro threads or in the Display Calibration forum so maybe try that. Some ISF Calibrators are experienced enough where they may know what particular board or component may be the cause of a poor black level reading from past experience.

And maybe reach out to a local ISF Calibrator that is very familiar with Kuros and see if he would be willing to evaluate your black levels for a small consulting fee and offer or suggest a course of action - be it a fresh Calibration to correct a previously poorly done one, or to positively determine that it is indeed a hardware issue and maybe he can write a letter verifying that it's not a calibration issue and is a flaw in the hardware that you can show your EW company so they can escalate your case.

And lastly, lose the adverse attitude toward the forum members that you've shown in your previous posts - we're not technicians here - just Plasma enthusiasts wink.gif

Well said Randy. Do you know if it is possible for him to reset his Kuro model to factory default, to return it to the settings it had when it was brand new? If that were possible, he could then start over with D-Nice's settings for it, and if it has improved how the MLL looks to him, he then could feel more confident about paying for to have a professional calibrate it. I am not familiar with how Kuro panels look when first shipped, and if the default settings do have a deep black look or not. Do you?
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post #11 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 10:30 AM
 
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Yes, the default settings generally provide the factory black level that these sets can achieve (0.001 fTL in the case of the 111FD).
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post #12 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 12:24 PM
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Yes, the default settings generally provide the factory black level that these sets can achieve (0.001 fTL in the case of the 111FD).

So Vinnie, what steps should he take to reset the unit to the factory default settings, which would result in either restoring his black levels, or confirming that something is broken in the unit?
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post #13 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 12:36 PM
 
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I don't own the 111FD anymore, but the instruction manual should have information on how to reset to the factory settings. I am not sure if this would resolve anything that had been edited within the service menu, however (since there's no telling what the previous owner did).
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post #14 of 373 Old 08-06-2013, 02:35 PM
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I don't own the 111FD anymore, but the instruction manual should have information on how to reset to the factory settings. I am not sure if this would resolve anything that had been edited within the service menu, however (since there's no telling what the previous owner did).

It still might be worth trying, since it probably is not going to make it look any worse than it is now, since he clearly can not stand looking at it.
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post #15 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 01:52 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Only problem I have with that is I don't have the cables, license key, etc... to use controlCAL (and am reluctant to go to that trouble because if it were to screw something up it's not like the controlCAL people will pay for repairs) and I almost exclusively use the ISF modes, which would be locked again. I would be very surprised if it's settings because it was apparently fine for the original owner.

Randy I only saw one repair place being authorized by Pioneer and I think only this one guy does anything. I have told the EW company issues still happen and they asked for pics of the issues, weeks ago, and I haven't responded to them still because there's no WAY to take pics of this type of issue and I haven't decided how to respond yet. In the past, I emailed Pioneer and they were ZERO help.

Indeed only one has looked at it and during the day, which I knew all along would be making this a waste of time. But people told me to get a repair person out... which is why it looks like I am being rude. Because certain people keep getting rude if I don't do exactly as they suggest, such as the ones who get rude and throw a fit if I don't get a calibration for something which is very unlikely to be settings-related.

That's also why I keep saying settings are likely NOT the issue. The fact that, as Vinnie stated, even defaults should have great black levels, so it's not likely to be settings.

Inded it may be good if a local ISF calibrator could examine it without doing a full calibration, but any time I've checked there doesn't seem to be anyone local. Only a few who travel here and then they'll ask for travel fees.
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post #16 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 06:19 AM
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What was suggested has nothing to do with you using calibration software. I don't understand why you can't take a picture of the issue if that is a step required to get assistance. A lot of members use their cell phones to take pictures (self included) of something on their display and then post it. My next comment is not a smart axx know-it-all remark. After reading your posts on this thread and the other it seems as if you don't take the advice that some very knowledgeable members have offered you well/at-all. Complaining about your display's poor black level and then not doing the things offered by others is getting a little old. You get a suggestion to do something, like Vinnie's (someone who is very knowledgeable and someone who's advice I would follow without question if I asked for help), and then turn around without doing the reset procedure, state he is wrong, that settings are not the issue. How do you know if you don't try? Either start taking the advice or quit posting about the problem because you are getting absolutely no where - again mean that nicely.

If I had a customer tell me they had an issue and I asked them to send me a picture as a starting point (EW company most likely isn't in your hometown) and the customer refused/didn't try then I wouldn't go any further with the customer either. You can't help those who don't want to be helped. To use a medical example, a patient can't be treated successfully if they don't comply with what has been recommended/prescribed. Pioneer doesn't have a reason to reply - your Elite is not under warranty anymore. All you are likely to get from them anyway is a list of authorized repair centers and parts distributors - something you can pull up on their website.

Listen to yourself. Then stop listening to you and start following the advice of others. That will help the process in at least eliminating things that aren't wrong. If you respond that you don't need to follow the advice of those trying to help I bet this will be one of the last responses you get. When you take that picture please post it, I am sure we would all like to see what has caused you such great frustration. Sometimes you have to spend some $ to get a problem fixed or a diagnosis made.

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post #17 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 04:12 PM
 
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I'm trying not to take any sides here (oh, the drama), and you give me too much credit, Murray. I get by on just a little information and would probably do well to listen and learn (xrox, for instance is a much more knowlegeable fella than me on technical matters concerning plasma...I hope he can weigh in on this matter) more than I "contribute". wink.gif This matter has me stumped, but resetting to factory is a good first step (I don't remember at this point in this months' long saga if it was ever tried).
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post #18 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 07:06 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You people are being so ridiculous. At least read everything I say before saying this inaccuracies. I was told to get a qualified repair guy to check it out. I did. I was told to tell settings I use. I did. I was told to try connecting straight to the tv, bypassing receiver. I did. I was told to change the color space settings or w/e for the oppo player and tv. I did. I was told try different sources. I did. I was told try different inputs. I did. I was told take pics. I did (and they turned out where you cant tell anything whatsoever by looking at them so I didn't upload them). SO PLEASE stop with this BS that I "ignore people's advice". There is ONE thing I did not do, which was suggested. PAY HUNDREDS of dollars to calibrate a broken tv. Everything else I followed advice with zero of it working.

Like I said, controlCAL comes in because if I reset the settings I assume that means bye bye ISF modes and I don't like pure or performance for night and day modes, with d-nice settings. The color is all off on performance and the picture is dull on pure, compared with ISF day and even night.

If not for the ISF modes being locked, I would of course reset settings to see how it does. But the previous owner seemed to be the careful type so I highly doubt he went changing crazy things with controlCAL so it's likely to not fix anything and then I lose the ISF modes. Like I said before, if someone is so sure it's not broken, pay for the calibration and if you're right I'll pay you back plus extra. Notice nobody likes that offer, so they must not be so sure it's a settings issue. Heck, it would be good if a calibrator would even offer to check it for free and if it can be fixed me agree to pay them for a full calibration and maybe even extra. But none will do it. they all want like $200 just to check it out. Like I said, if people were so certain it's settings they would have no problem with any of these offers because they would come out ahead.
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post #19 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 07:24 PM
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Why do you want someone else to pay for troubleshooting YOUR display:rolleyes:
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post #20 of 373 Old 08-08-2013, 10:50 PM
 
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It seems to me the loss of the ISF calibration and the potential gain from a factory reset would be worth it after all the heartache. It's all you have left anyway (in terms of free solutions), unless you want to hold off on the chance that someone more technically knowledgeable drops by (fool's errand at this point methinks). Most certainly, no one's going out of their way to pony up cash on a hunch about a set they don't even own or in which they have no vested interest.
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post #21 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 05:52 AM
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"I did. I was told take pics. I did (and they turned out where you cant tell anything whatsoever by looking at them so I didn't upload them). SO PLEASE stop with this BS"

I think there really isn't a problem - I couldn't have said this better myself and its your own quote. Hate to say it but I think this is all BS given the resistance to help/suggestions/advice. I suggest you learn to live with the higher black levels and next time buy your display new or check it out closely before handing over the $. By the way I am paying for a calibration this weekend, its a great way to get some help - paying.

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post #22 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
 
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smurray is clearly a troll. Right after I listed COUNTLESS suggestions I followed, he once again says I "fail to follow advice". You have real issues. Nobody could be that dumb to say that immediately after reading my examples of it being a lie unless they're purposely trolling.

Yeah, good job PAYING for your working set. Oh what a risk you're taking there. Sure is the same as paying for a BROKEN one that won't be fixed, huh?
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post #23 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Why do you want someone else to pay for troubleshooting YOUR display:rolleyes:
Why do you want someone else to pay for a calibration of a broken set? rolleyes.gif

Again, read. I said if everyone is sooooo sure I should pay for a calibration and that will fix it, then they can pay to fix a broken set. i'm not the one foolish enough to say risking $400 just "in case" it would fix it is a good idea. And the hilarious part is not a single one of you would pay $400 on a broken set, but you're pretending I'm just being cheap. haha. THE SET IS NOT WORKING. Learn to read. Besides what an elitist attitude to judge someone on whether or not they pay for a calibration anyway. Like I said, I'm not the one with thinking issues here.

Do I need to link to the thread where another guy had these same issues AFTER CALIBRATION and the calibrator COULD NOT FIX THEM, where you'll stop with this nonsense that I am just not wanting to pay for something that will fix it? Want me to also screenshot the PM where he said currently, THREE YEARS LATER, it NEVER got fixed so he sold it? Get your facts straight before insulting people.

Even D-nice has said a lot of panels are just flat bad for these. So I guess you better go tell him he can magically fix them. Mine has a build date before the ones he listed, but apparently they even messed up earlier ones. Either that or a aprt is abd as I said all along. If I ever get this figured out I'll be making a thread to point out how ridiculous people were in suggesting I pay $400 for a tv with broken parts.
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post #24 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 01:40 PM
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The Repairman examined your set and said it was not broken. You are the one who is claiming that it is broken, but yet you say you will not try resetting it to factory default, which would be how it would have arrived brand new to the original owner, because you want to not risk losing the ISF settings that are not giving you the black level you think you should have on the unit. You are engaging in circular logic. You say your set is broken, but yet you cannot say what part is broken, and the repairman examined it and did not find any broken part in it, but you do not want to accept that because you have a hunch that it must be broken. It is laughable that you want to preserve the ISF settings on a set that you claim is broken, and put that ahead of trying to start over by trying a reset to the way it looked when it left the factory.

Keep on bumping your threads until you find that mythical creature you are searching for; an online TV whisperer, who can tell from afar what exactly is broken on your TV set, that will not cost you anything to have it repaired.cool.gif
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post #25 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I am about t stop repeating this t you, as you clearly can't understand anything I am typing. Ther eis ANOTHER person on this site who had the SAME problem, had it calibrated, it did not fix a thing. It is not settings. Also I love how you say 8I "refuse" to do something never suggested to me until like 1-02 days ago, as if it's been said for years. Also it's you who has odd logic. Your logic is that I lose nothing by trying because the black level is bad in the ISF modes for me already. Well, what will happen if I reset it is I lose those modes totally AND nothing gets fixed so then I am stuck with modes which look even WORSE. Your crazy logic assumes that black level is the ONLY thing to consider so hey what is lost by having ISF modes locked. In reality, ALL modes have bad black level, so there is no gain in the other modes PLUS everything else looks better in the ISF one. There is really no mode similar to ISF day.

Also how could it be settings anyway? It's happening in every mode and every input. HDMI ones and component. The ISF modes, pure, etc... Yep, I am sure looking for a mythical unicorn in thinking a REPAIR person can know what needs repairing on a set. I am sure out on a limb thinking it's possible to get that. I already explained that the guy who claimed my set was fine said tons of information which is flat out untrue, such as it being "normal" for blacks to look gray. That is NOT normal on this model.
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post #26 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 06:03 PM
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Careful you'll be labeled a troll.

Thanks for the laugh - I owned a Pioneer for over 4 years until passing it on to a family member a few weeks ago. If being a troll is based on someone telling you to listen to those who know more than the two of us - then a troll I must be. In your latest post/rant it seems you acknowledge your panel is broke, being so I would not spend money on a calibration either, but I could have sworn you said in a number of earlier posts it wasn't. When you decide to buy a new one I would be happy to make some recommendations. Hope you can get past this, buying a bad display is hard for anyone to take regardless of their socioeconomic status.

Finally, just out of curiosity is this black issue is present in a completely dark room? With direct light hitting my panel the blacks would gray up as well, especially the black bars on letterbox material. That behavior is normal, filter doesn't handle direct light as well as some of the offerings from Panasonic and Samsung this year.

Panasonic 60VT60 (cal by DNice)
Denon 5200 w/ Outlaw 2200 Amps (3)
Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2s F/R & Horizon w/ RAAL Center; Sierra 1s Surrounds; HTM-200s Top Middle and PSB S5 Rear Surrounds; Dual SVS subs
Oppo 103; Onkyo HD-DVD; Apple TV & Roku Stick
Atmos arrived on 9/30/2014
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post #27 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 06:17 PM
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Last comment - if you have all the answers then why do you keep asking for help? Insulting those trying to help you - priceless.
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Panasonic 60VT60 (cal by DNice)
Denon 5200 w/ Outlaw 2200 Amps (3)
Ascend Acoustics Sierra 2s F/R & Horizon w/ RAAL Center; Sierra 1s Surrounds; HTM-200s Top Middle and PSB S5 Rear Surrounds; Dual SVS subs
Oppo 103; Onkyo HD-DVD; Apple TV & Roku Stick
Atmos arrived on 9/30/2014
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post #28 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Ther eis ANOTHER person on this site who had the SAME problem, had it calibrated, it did not fix a thing.
Link?
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post #29 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 07:37 PM
 
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post #30 of 373 Old 08-09-2013, 09:04 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Wrong.

Like I said, I'm about done responding to trolling, but how funny that the guy who accused me of lying about countless things says I am the one being rude to others. And implying that I called him a troll because he owns a kuro. ha. Yeah, it couldn't be because he lied that I "resist advice" RIGHT AFTER the post where I listed like 10 things given as advice where I have done 9 out of 10. It also couldn't be because he implied I am lying about it even having a problem. Just bet me money and I'll show you.

Yep, I said all along it's broken. Works great except black levels. That's still broken, as that's the main attribute of an elite.

Vinnie, yeah I PMed that guy and he said nope it was never solved and as you see in the thread it had bad blacks AFTER a known calibrator calibrated it. Now why oh WHY would I be reluctant to spend hundreds to calibrate a set with the same issues after learning of what happened with that guy, I wonder? So easy for people to play with others' money, isn't it? Not a one of you would get a set in this condition calibrated unless you knew you had no way of fixing it and no way of buying another tv.
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