VT60 OR F8500 OR EVEN A ST60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Who has seen these side by side and not in BB.
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Has any one seen these calibrated side by side and is the f8500 really sharper than the vt60
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post #3 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 07:03 PM
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No it's not sharper in fact it's oversharpened and david katzmaier put the VT60 as having better motion resolution 1200 vs 700 on the f8500
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 07:56 PM
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Saw them side by side at the Shootout, and yes, the 8500 does look sharper. It's not oversharpened as this would be obvious in test patterns.

I chose the 8500 over the VT/ZT for that reason as well as a better behaved ABL.
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post #5 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WILLINH View Post

Who has seen these side by side and not in BB.
I have, 8500 makes the pannys look dim. I saw them all side by side at VE. Rob owns an 8500, enough said.
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-14-2013, 11:46 PM
 
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^That settles it. Time to dump my ZT!

Oh yea, D-Nice owns an ST60...

Also, paging DavidHir...he's also owned both of the main contenders as listed by the OP and can provide some additional insight.
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post #7 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 11:52 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok, can any one tell me if the vt is that dim? I have read that a couple of times and is the panel very reflevtive on the VT60. Thanks
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post #8 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 12:09 PM
 
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It's more reflective and dimmer than the 8500 for sure (probably less reflective than the ST but don't quote me on that).
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post #9 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 12:14 PM
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In terms of brightness it goes 8500>st>vt>zt, but the zt has a great filter which mantains blacks and reduces reflections. The 8500 trumps all in brightness, but the question becomes do you need that extra light output ? Once calibrated the VT is bright enough for a moderately lit room.

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post #10 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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When I read people posting the VT is very dim they must have a LED,My g15 is not real bright and it looks natural and not over bright. I will upgrage to a vt or f8500 or mybe a st.
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 12:27 PM
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All great sets tough decision, plasma has come along way the last two years. How bright is your room ?

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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It is not to bright. There is no direct sunlight that comes in. I do have a 4' x8' window that lets in natural light thats on the side. Most viewing is done at night, except sunday when the NFL starts
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 06:19 PM
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I'm certainly not an expert but I own both a 65" VT60 and the 64" F8500. I bought the VT60 for my media room and the F8500 for my family room. Both look fantastic but after seeing it, I felt like the F8500 was the better choice for the family room because there's a lot more light in that room (lots of windows with shutters) and it's brighter than the VT60. That said, I also think the VT60 would probably have been acceptable as well (I bought the VT60 sight unseen). But since my media room is in the basement and light-controlled, I decided to put the VT60 down there because I thought the blacks were ever so slightly blacker than the F8500. I should point out that neither TV has been calibrated yet, however.
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-15-2013, 11:25 PM
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I say if brightness is #1, buy an ST -- Brighter than the VT, and cheaper too ...

My ST is in a very bright west-facing room, and it's plenty bright.
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post #15 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 03:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILLINH View Post

It is not to bright. There is no direct sunlight that comes in. I do have a 4' x8' window that lets in natural light thats on the side. Most viewing is done at night, except sunday when the NFL starts

Given those lighting conditions I would say either the vt or st would work nicely

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post #16 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 06:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

In terms of brightness it goes 8500>st>vt>zt, but the zt has a great filter which mantains blacks and reduces reflections. The 8500 trumps all in brightness, but the question becomes do you need that extra light output ? Once calibrated the VT is bright enough for a moderately lit room.

My un-calibrated ZT is plenty bright for my moderately lit family room. Actually, I have my contrast set at 50 (out of 100). I'm coming from a 10 year old DLP, so maybe that was not very bright by comparison. I have absolutely no problem watching sports during the day (like preseason NFL and PGA). A dark movie on a bright sunny day might be washed out since I have a big window directly opposite the TV. But that isn't really my viewing habit. WILLINH, I think any of these sets will be bright enough for your room and viewing habits. But if you are coming from an LED, maybe go with the 8500.

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post #17 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 06:31 AM
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Heh, well I guess that pretty much rounds out all the options with a recommendation for each one. We haven't helped WILLINH at all. wink.gif

But seriously, I don't think you can go wrong with any of these PQ wise for your room. Maybe base the decision on price, a sale, stand, aesthetics, brand loyalty...

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post #18 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 06:50 AM
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Best bet is to try to see them all side by side with your own eyes. Best Buy is the best bet for that and most stores will let you play the settings. Then you can see not only how the panels handle dark scenes, but also bright scenes and everything in between. Then you'll see if you can detect the impact of ABL in each panel.

It's also a great opportunity to see if you can detect differences in sharpness. After all, it's you that will be watching the display, not us.

One plus for the 8500 not often discussed, is the Evolution module that allows upgrades, that could include enhancements to the picture. It's not enough of a reason to buy the panel IMO, but it can be one factor in the decision making process.
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post #19 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Saw them side by side at the Shootout, and yes, the 8500 does look sharper. It's not oversharpened as this would be obvious in test patterns.

I chose the 8500 over the VT/ZT for that reason as well as a better behaved ABL.
eek.gif
ST60 is as precise and sharp as F8500, enough to have the right settings ... wink.gif

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post #20 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by WILLINH View Post

When I read people posting the VT is very dim they must have a LED,My g15 is not real bright and it looks natural and not over bright. I will upgrage to a vt or f8500 or mybe a st.

it's all relative at this point. the zt is dim. but it's definitely not too dim to watch in normal 'movie' type viewing conditions. pretty much avoid pointing the sun at it, and it'll be ok. same as every plasma made before this year.

it's the same as when ppl say the f8500 doesn't get 'black'. compared to the vt/zt, maybe not as black. compared to everything else, inky black. it's certainly able to get black enough to make you ooh and ahh at the picture.

hopefully, when ppl read these comparisons they understand that the 'weaknesses' of these displays are still something they do exceptionally well. I mean, saying the vt isn't as sharp/clear as the f8500 may be true, but having the 2nd sharpest image on the market today isn't exactly a terrible thing. i'm sure in a non-comparative review, the vt's sharpness and clarity would be a 'pro'.

I think the other thing worth noting is that just because a tv can be brighter, doesn't mean it has to be. I liked the f8500 because it gives me options. I can put it in any room in the house and it'll work exceptionally well. and to be honest, there's not much need for a small flat screen in my main theatre room anymore. i'm certainly not going to do my 'critical' viewing on a tv anymore.
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post #21 of 24 Old 08-16-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Urga View Post

eek.gif
ST60 is as precise and sharp as F8500, enough to have the right settings ... wink.gif

the f8500 does look sharper. not necessarily because it technically is, but because it seems to have less space between pixels. I guess it's an 'apparent' sharpness, but most ppl see it that way.

again, it's not that the st60 isn't a great display, it's just that the f8500 is ALSO a great display, and has slightly different strengths and weaknesses. I don't personally see it making a difference, but perhaps the f8500 having a similar 'zero gap' screen like the zt60 helps with this apparent sharpness and clarity. if you view at rather extreme angles, it makes a difference
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post #22 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Duskstench View Post

No it's not sharper in fact it's oversharpened and david katzmaier put the VT60 as having better motion resolution 1200 vs 700 on the f8500

How can something be "oversharpened"? Either it is sharp or it isn't. Then of course you could have a "Sharpness control" that doesn't work as it should, or you might prefer a slightly softer image, most likely for movies, but that really isn't the same thing. I have the F8500 and when using it with my HTPC for "desktop stuff" I am amazed how good it looks and have to remind me it isn't an LCD. That said, if someone prefers a VT60/ZT60 over the F8500, fine by me, all these are great TV:s.
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post #23 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

In terms of brightness it goes 8500>st>vt>zt, but the zt has a great filter which mantains blacks and reduces reflections. The 8500 trumps all in brightness, but the question becomes do you need that extra light output ? Once calibrated the VT is bright enough for a moderately lit room.

I think this is mainly a matter of personal preference and of course what lighting situation you might have in your room. If you are used to plasmas you might have adjusted to the low light output levels and might prefer that. To me, I can't really see the problem in having brightness available if you want it, but still have the option to turn it down if you don't. It's like some plasma fanatics who seem to think that there is no way to have a LCD display in anything but Dynamic/Vivid mode, and then whining about it being "brighter than anyone needs" smile.gif

For me personally, I think the biggest "problem" with the VT60 is that blacks seem to wash out quite a bit in bright environments, while the ZT60 does a much better job of maintaining blacks even in a bright room, probably even better than the F8500, but lacking the same light output. I live in Europe which don't get the 65" ZT60, so between a 64" F8500 and a 60" ZT which is also 25-30% more expensive than the F8500, it's a much easier decision.
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post #24 of 24 Old 08-20-2013, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by improwise View Post

How can something be "oversharpened"?

Easy. A display can have undefeatable edge enhancement which is the case to a slight degree with the F8500 as seen on test patterns, but not really visible from normal seating distances.

By the way, the VT60 filter actually holds blacks really well in a brighter environment; the issue is with reflections depending on that environment and what direction light is coming into the room. The VT60 is definitely more reflective than the ZT or F8500. As far as light output, I'm close to 41 ftl. on my 65VT60 and I find that satisfactory in a moderately bright room, but others like a lot more brightness.

Of course, I am speaking of my personal experience with the U.S. models. Perhaps things are different in the European models.

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