Samsung F8500 Black Optimizer issue - anyone else experience this? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 08-20-2013, 11:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I just purchased a 64" F8500 which I really like. When I use black optimizer, something funky happens. There are random white flashes. I was finally able to capture one with a camera and it turns out the image is part of what is being displayed on the screen but only in white. I have disconnected the TV from power and also reset it to no avail. I have seen this when hooked up to DVR or blu-ray player. If I turn off black optimizer, then the issue never occurs. I have also disabled Motion Lighting, Energy Saving and Eco Sensor to verify those are not the issue. I am on also on the latest FW (1110). If other people are seeing the issue, I will just wait for an update. If not, I will return it for a new one.


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post #2 of 43 Old 08-20-2013, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Spoke to Samsung and they were very helpful. Their solution was to not use black optimizer. Gee, thanks.
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post #3 of 43 Old 02-13-2014, 11:03 PM
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Hi i have just purchased a factory seconds PS64F8500 which has exactly the same issues as you have described.
As soon as i set Black Optimizer to off the problem goes away,naturally this is not an ideal solution i,m on Australian Firmware 1113.1.

Did you ever fix the problem or does anyone have a solution.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
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post #4 of 43 Old 02-14-2014, 05:15 AM
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I thought the latest firmware is 1118.
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post #5 of 43 Old 02-14-2014, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by paligap View Post

I thought the latest firmware is 1118.

IT IS!

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post #6 of 43 Old 02-14-2014, 02:23 PM
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Samsung Australia has 1113.1 as the latest firmware.
Where can I get 1118 from could only find 1116.
Thanks
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post #7 of 43 Old 02-14-2014, 04:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by spoonted View Post

Hi i have just purchased a factory seconds PS64F8500 which has exactly the same issues as you have described.
As soon as i set Black Optimizer to off the problem goes away,naturally this is not an ideal solution i,m on Australian Firmware 1113.1.

Did you ever fix the problem or does anyone have a solution.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers
I can't be of much help. I returned it for a replacement that does not have the issue.
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post #8 of 43 Old 02-14-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PTO View Post

I can't be of much help. I returned it for a replacement that does not have the issue.

OK thanks for the reply.

Did you find the black optimizer made a noticeable difference once you received the new set.

Just wandering how hard i should fight for a replacement set.

Cheers
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post #9 of 43 Old 02-15-2014, 01:39 AM
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Found out black optimizer screws proper cadence on blu rays. So im not using it anymore. I dont see a difference in black level anyway, so no biggie.
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post #10 of 43 Old 02-15-2014, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post

Found out black optimizer screws proper cadence on blu rays. So im not using it anymore. I dont see a difference in black level anyway, so no biggie.

Thats strange. I see no cadence issues with BO set to dark room and CS on.

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post #11 of 43 Old 02-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by wxman View Post

Thats strange. I see no cadence issues with BO set to dark room and CS on.

I get unnatural stutters when on. Katzmeier from Cnet noted the same thing. I went to my go to motion scenes from different movies and they just werent looking right. I was trying everything and everyones settings. My resolution got more crisp but motion was still off. Went to Cnet and read the review. Turned off black optimizer and now things look the way they should.
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post #12 of 43 Old 04-10-2014, 04:21 AM
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Hi there,

Firstly what a great site for info. Appreciate all the help this site gives.

Anyway reason for my post is: I have the same problem as original poster, and a pain to return the refurbished set. So anyone any ideas how to fix,, it's it parts or maybe I can teak apart from turning off the black optimiser as the issue is still there sometimes.

Might just pay for the fix considering I got it quite cheaply anyway so may be with a few hundred dollars.

Ideas anyone?
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post #13 of 43 Old 04-11-2014, 10:06 AM
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Interestingly, my 64F8500 developed EXACTLY this problem on March 3, when it was less than a month old. I didn't notice this thread, because the last update before today was February 15, plus it took me a few days to realize that it went away with the Black Optimizer set to Off or Bright Room.

The very strange thing about this is that the first post in this thread was last August 13.

The service tech told me that he had never seen or heard of such a problem before. He spent a lot of time talking to Samsung, and he told me that Samsung had never seen or heard of this problem before, and had no idea what causes it, or how to fix it. Samsung had him take pictures with his cell phone and send them to Samsung, so they could see it for themselves. He said they were completely baffled.

Swapping in a new main board did not fix it.

After multiple service visits over a period of nearly a month, Samsung finally threw in the towel and offered me a refund or an exchange.

My new 64F85400 is being delivered on Monday.

Counting myself, there's four people just in this thread who have seen this problem. I wonder how common it actually is? If this has been getting reported since at least August, it seems like the right hand at Samsung does not know what the left hand is doing.

When the person on the phone at Best Buy was arranging the delivery, out of the blue she said "Those are really great televisions, when they work".
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post #14 of 43 Old 05-01-2014, 04:19 PM
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@Shadowspawn - I couldn't agree more. I am wondering why Samsung hasn't clearly identified the issue. I have the option to have my panel replaced via Samsung, but have not decided yet due to the possibility that it would "redevelop" after a few weeks. Unless, you had the issue from day one, and just noticed it a few weeks in? Mine begins the moment I start using the Black Optimizer (Dark Room). I had the main board replaced on mine, too. The issue became more apparent after it. I also have the 1120.1 firmware update, and it did nothing. I think I might just return it. Thoughts?

PS. There are YouTube videos. I'm not sure these links will post:
1) http://youtu.be/lPBDOvVkPKk
2) http://youtu.be/fEspHVB3LXM
3) http://youtu.be/vkfr2PzMg9o
4) http://youtu.be/QdUuZDECHeI
5) http://youtu.be/21cy1DkojDU
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post #15 of 43 Old 05-01-2014, 09:21 PM
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Looking at your first two Youtube videos, it's exactly the same problem, right down to the portion of the lower panel that is affected.

I'd return it for sure. Samsung seems to be baffled about what causes it, and a mainboard swap has been proven to not fix it, and it cannot get better from here.

Samsung needs to step up and pay for the consequences this defect, which seems to be cropping up a lot, given that only a small minority of buyers are posting on this forum.

EDIT: I just noticed that your 64F8500 panel is wall-mounted.

As mine is.

Which leads me off into wild speculation about whether there is a mechanical design defect on the TV, that stresses something off the mainboard when it is wall mounted, and causes problems.

BTW, tomorrow I am getting delivery of my THIRD 64F8500. First one developed the ghosting problem in less than a month. Second one, the ARC quit working after ten days.

Hoping for better luck on the third one...

I have to wall mount it. I don't have a single piece of furniture in the house that is wide enough to properly support the ends of the stand.
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post #16 of 43 Old 05-02-2014, 04:23 AM
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Hmmm, my 60F8500 does not have this, but I do plan to wall mount it next year, and I want to rule out the possibility of this happening. So far, it seems that only people with 64F8500 have reported this issue. Is anyone aware of any 51 or 60 inch models with this issue?

I am thinking that it could also be overheating issue if you install a wall mount that is low profile and keeps the tv flush with the wall. 8500 series pumps out a lot of heat.
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post #17 of 43 Old 05-02-2014, 05:15 AM
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No issue on my 51, stand mounted.

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post #18 of 43 Old 05-02-2014, 05:48 AM
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My wall mounted 64F8500 that had this issue is on a fully articulated arm well out from the wall, so it actually gets better air circulation than if it were on a stand mount.

It does seem to run a bit hot, though. I keep the cell light at 18 while watching cable TV or Netflix, which is a good deal of the time.
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post #19 of 43 Old 05-02-2014, 07:15 AM
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Wow thank you everyone for such quick replies.

I need to clarify those YouTube videos are not mine. Those are videos of two different people that posted the issue on YouTube.

Unfortunately my TV is not wall mounted, and sits on top of a stand and it is approximately one foot from the wall, and has enough ventilation for a cooling.

In any case, my 64 inch does exhibit an identical issue to the one in the YouTube video and as everyone describes.

Samsung will replace my panel, meaning they are offering to gut it and put a new panel in the bezel. The bezel would be original. That's where I'm not sure it's worth keeping. -- thanks for the suggestion ShadowSpawn.
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post #20 of 43 Old 05-03-2014, 06:03 PM
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Exact same problem here, not wall mounted. TV is about a month old, maybe noticed it once or twice before. Noticed it like crazy today. Glad I found this thread, I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out the issue. Receiver, HDMI cables etc.. Nope, it's this damn back optimizer. I have it on bright room now and problem solved. Already on my second TV due to a dead pixel on the first. Don't really want to deal with another swap out. On firmware 1120. Hoping they can fix this in firmware.. Anyone have any luck fixing this problem yet without a new TV? Luckily it's far less annoying than the dead pixel and I am not sure how much I even care other than I spent a ton on this TV and don't like having to just "deal" with a problem. But I am in no real rush right now with it on the bright room setting. Figured I'd just jump in to say "me too" for others to find and no it's not from hanging on the wall.
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post #21 of 43 Old 05-03-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by TrickyT View Post

Exact same problem here, not wall mounted. TV is about a month old, maybe noticed it once or twice before. Noticed it like crazy today. Glad I found this thread, I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out the issue. Receiver, HDMI cables etc.. Nope, it's this damn back optimizer. I have it on bright room now and problem solved. Already on my second TV due to a dead pixel on the first. Don't really want to deal with another swap out. On firmware 1120. Hoping they can fix this in firmware.. Anyone have any luck fixing this problem yet without a new TV? Luckily it's far less annoying than the dead pixel and I am not sure how much I even care other than I spent a ton on this TV and don't like having to just "deal" with a problem. But I am in no real rush right now with it on the bright room setting. Figured I'd just jump in to say "me too" for others to find and no it's not from hanging on the wall.

Most do not have this problem. So if you are having this issue, I highly doubt a firmware fix will help you. BO works perfectly for me. My advice is to get it replaced if you can. I wouldn't be surprised if you start having other problems with your tv. If a tv goes bad, it usually starts within the first few months. Looks like it's starting on your tv.

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post #22 of 43 Old 05-03-2014, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TrickyT View Post

Exact same problem here, not wall mounted. TV is about a month old, maybe noticed it once or twice before. Noticed it like crazy today. Glad I found this thread, I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out the issue. Receiver, HDMI cables etc.. Nope, it's this damn back optimizer. I have it on bright room now and problem solved. Already on my second TV due to a dead pixel on the first. Don't really want to deal with another swap out. On firmware 1120. Hoping they can fix this in firmware.. Anyone have any luck fixing this problem yet without a new TV? Luckily it's far less annoying than the dead pixel and I am not sure how much I even care other than I spent a ton on this TV and don't like having to just "deal" with a problem. But I am in no real rush right now with it on the bright room setting. Figured I'd just jump in to say "me too" for others to find and no it's not from hanging on the wall.

Personal opinion, having had one of these...

I don't think it's a firmware issue.

I would get the TV replaced under warranty.

If (like me) they tell you "That's a completely new one on us, we've never heard of this before", refer them to the videos on Youtube.
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post #23 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

Personal opinion, having had one of these...

I don't think it's a firmware issue.

I would get the TV replaced under warranty.

If (like me) they tell you "That's a completely new one on us, we've never heard of this before", refer them to the videos on Youtube.

Ya, I probably will. Just pissed. I spent weeks dealing with the first problem and was so happy and content after getting the new one like three weeks ago. Everything was perfect until a few days ago. I just have the black optimizer off and it's perfectly fine. Hell, I can't even tell the difference with it off. But for the price of this, I probably should get it fixed. I assume at least this time I don't have to pack up and returning. They just come out to your house correct? And to your question on the other tread. Yes it's the 64" one.
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post #24 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 08:51 AM
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^^

My experience was that I finally got Samsung to agree to replace it (after a month of scheduled repair visits, where Samsung kept telling the contract service guy that this was a problem they'd never heard of and was a new mystery). The Return and Exchange Department called me and gave me two choices:

1. Go buy a new F8500 from any authorized retailer, send Samsung a copy of the receipt, and they would mail me a check for my original purchase price and send a trucking company out to pickup the old F8500.

2. Have them issue an RMA exchange number to Best Buy, and Best Buy would come out and deliver the new F8500 and take the old one away.

I was originally going to go with the first option, to puff up my membership status at Best Buy. Then I realized that Samsung also wanted to take away the nice sound bar that was bundled with the F8500 (and that bundle no longer exists); the 64F8500 was $100 more expensive than in January, so I'd be out $100 and the $250 sound bar; and the fact that the TV had a different price was going to screw up my Square Trade protection plan.

I went with 2, and was happy enough.

In another thread, I was really worried that Best Buy just exchanged (for a different issue) my second 64F8500 with a March build date, for one that had an August 2013 build date. That seems suspicious, to say the least. However, there seems to have been a rash of this problem happening recently, so maybe I'm glad I have an older build date after all.
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post #25 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

^^

My experience was that I finally got Samsung to agree to replace it (after a month of scheduled repair visits, where Samsung kept telling the contract service guy that this was a problem they'd never heard of and was a new mystery). The Return and Exchange Department called me and gave me two choices:

1. Go buy a new F8500 from any authorized retailer, send Samsung a copy of the receipt, and they would mail me a check for my original purchase price and send a trucking company out to pickup the old F8500.

2. Have them issue an RMA exchange number to Best Buy, and Best Buy would come out and deliver the new F8500 and take the old one away.

I was originally going to go with the first option, to puff up my membership status at Best Buy. Then I realized that Samsung also wanted to take away the nice sound bar that was bundled with the F8500 (and that bundle no longer exists); the 64F8500 was $100 more expensive than in January, so I'd be out $100 and the $250 sound bar; and the fact that the TV had a different price was going to screw up my Square Trade protection plan.

I went with 2, and was happy enough.

In another thread, I was really worried that Best Buy just exchanged (for a different issue) my second 64F8500 with a March build date, for one that had an August 2013 build date. That seems suspicious, to say the least. However, there seems to have been a rash of this problem happening recently, so maybe I'm glad I have an older build date after all.

I wonder if the evolution kit coming out this month I think?? Would resolve this assuming it bypasses the defective motherboard. Would be interesting to try as I plan on getting it anyway. I also got the full four year replacement warranty from Best Buy with this, glad I did at this rate. Regardless, I'll call Samsung about this, luckily it doesn't really affect watching TV as I just turned off the Black Optimizer.. The dead pixel on the other hand with the first set I had, made me want to punch babies.. Freaking annoying the defect rates on these things. Great TV when it works..
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post #26 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 11:26 AM
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I wonder if the evolution kit coming out this month I think?? Would resolve this assuming it bypasses the defective motherboard. Would be interesting to try as I plan on getting it anyway. I also got the full four year replacement warranty from Best Buy with this, glad I did at this rate. Regardless, I'll call Samsung about this, luckily it doesn't really affect watching TV as I just turned off the Black Optimizer.. The dead pixel on the other hand with the first set I had, made me want to punch babies.. Freaking annoying the defect rates on these things. Great TV when it works..

If by "motherboard" you mean "mainboard", replacing or bypassing the mainboard won't fix it. That's the first thing that the contract service guy tried (it's a quick and easy fix, using an easy to handle part, that covers a lot of ground). We were both a little surprised when the mainboard swap made no difference.

At this point, I am sort of suspecting the plasma panel itself.

One of the things that (I have been told) the Black Optimizer does is to utilize the full white gamut at the top end. Most program material does not have white levels above 235 (although things like the PS3 console do). The F8500 is capable of displaying white up to 255. I've been told that, if the program material does not have white levels above 235, the BO scales the whites up to the full range that it is capable of displaying.

My suspicion (and that's all it is) is that the flickering ghosting we are seeing is when the BO scales the whites up, it somehow overdrives something in certain panels and causes cross-talk.

I'd sure like to hear the real story someday.
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post #27 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

If by "motherboard" you mean "mainboard", replacing or bypassing the mainboard won't fix it. That's the first thing that the contract service guy tried (it's a quick and easy fix, using an easy to handle part, that covers a lot of ground). We were both a little surprised when the mainboard swap made no difference.

At this point, I am sort of suspecting the plasma panel itself.

One of the things that (I have been told) the Black Optimizer does is to utilize the full white gamut at the top end. Most program material does not have white levels above 235 (although things like the PS3 console do). The F8500 is capable of displaying white up to 255. I've been told that, if the program material does not have white levels above 235, the BO scales the whites up to the full range that it is capable of displaying.

My suspicion (and that's all it is) is that the flickering ghosting we are seeing is when the BO scales the whites up, it somehow overdrives something in certain panels and causes cross-talk.

I'd sure like to hear the real story someday.

Damn, I was really hoping to avoid a new panel and the possibility of that adding yet another problem.. Suppose I'll call and nag Samsung about this next week. At least there is no real urgency here. Such a pain in the ass to deal with swapping this beast..
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post #28 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowspawn View Post

If by "motherboard" you mean "mainboard", replacing or bypassing the mainboard won't fix it. That's the first thing that the contract service guy tried (it's a quick and easy fix, using an easy to handle part, that covers a lot of ground). We were both a little surprised when the mainboard swap made no difference.

At this point, I am sort of suspecting the plasma panel itself.

One of the things that (I have been told) the Black Optimizer does is to utilize the full white gamut at the top end. Most program material does not have white levels above 235 (although things like the PS3 console do). The F8500 is capable of displaying white up to 255. I've been told that, if the program material does not have white levels above 235, the BO scales the whites up to the full range that it is capable of displaying.

My suspicion (and that's all it is) is that the flickering ghosting we are seeing is when the BO scales the whites up, it somehow overdrives something in certain panels and causes cross-talk.

I'd sure like to hear the real story someday.

Interesting. I wonder if this problem will go away when more 4K material becomes available that has a wider gamut. Although the broadcasters will have to make it backward compatible with current 2K tv's, perhaps the 2K material will keep the wider gamut.

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post #29 of 43 Old 05-04-2014, 11:53 PM
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That's a great presumption @ShadowSpawn. It would be very interesting to know what the exact cause is. Too bad, as you said before, they don't acknowledge the level of this issue. Hopefully, Samsung monitors threads like these.

So, since I have two more days to decide (return for full refund or have Samsung fix it), I thought to ask my questions once more to @ShadowSpawn or anyone else...

Q1: By replacing the panel, does this mean they replace just the innards of the panel? That's what my samsung field engineer told me.

Q2: If that's not what y'all meant, is it still worth having the rep replace my TVs innards by just putting a new panel inside my original bezel?

The quality in general of the image using David K's calibration settings is unbelievable. I compared it to SoundandVision.com's calibration settings too, and I liked David's more.

Looking forward to the additional feedback.
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post #30 of 43 Old 05-05-2014, 04:39 AM
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Hi all,

So I have just purchased a 64" F8500 and it has this exact same issue.

Samsung came and had a look at it and they have reported it to head office and will get back to me. The interesting thing I found was that when the engineers came over, we couldn't replicate the issue (typical!). As soon as they left I managed to create the problem and call them back and show it to them.

The problem seemed to be with the contrast level. I had my contrast set to 70 while I break the panel in and at that level with the BO on 'dark room' the issue shows up a lot on the intro to 'Alien'. The white letters at the top are ghosted onto the bottom half of the screen. However, if I put the contrast up to the default 95 I can't seem to recreate the issue.

So it seems a normal high contrast or setting the BO to off/bright room fixes it for me. Has anyone else with this issue seen anything like this?
geves is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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