Common DIY diagnosis and repair info for Plasma ,LED/LCD and CCFL/LCD TV sets ,Monitors and display devices (mostly power supply repairs ) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 01:02 AM - Thread Starter
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If your LCD or LED flat panel TV set will not power up or will not stay on ,
If you have an immediate shut down after turning on your TV or sometimes a delayed shutdown,
or the set does not turn on at all and has no picture and no sound .


First eliminate any surge protector /powerstrip problems by plugging set in directly to the mains .
make sure the mains have power .


Next first try a power re set (unplug ther set for a minute or two then plug it back in and turn it on )


If that did not fix it or the problem re occours try a factory reset (see owners manual )

if that did not fix it or the problem re occurs try a firmware update/re install. (see owners manual)

Instructions for the above and firmware downloads are usually available at the
TV manufacturer product support site and listed by your sets model number
Also re setting procedures should be in your owners manual .

If you do not have an owners manual they are usually available at the manufacture product support website on line as well.

If the above did not fix it ,
And you still have an immediate self test fail/shutdown after turning on your TV or sometimes a delayed shutdown it may be caused by a hard fault , a faulty power supply very common and usually not difficult to repair

If your Plasma or LCD/LED or CCFL/LCD TV or monitor has stopped working, or is displaying one of the following symptoms, then it *may* need some new capacitors in the power supply board or a replacement board

If you would like to consider a DIY repair then by all means keep reading.

- Flickering screen

- Screen image disappears after several seconds

- Dim screen

- Slow start

- Power LED on, but no picture

- shuts down for no apparent reason

-No led on no picture or sound

-no picture or sound

-sound and no picture

- Unusual colors and/or lines

The most common failures are electrolytic capacitors on the power supply board.

The primary cause of modern TV and monitor failure is caused by faulty capacitors. in the power supply You can examine the capacitors in your TV or monitor and *sometimes actually see if they are bad.'

capacitors can also look fine and fail also .

New capacitors can sometimes solve a host of problems in monitors and TV's and may often extend the life of your monitor or TV by several years.
as well as get it working properly.

Most of these repairs equally apply to CCFL/LCD and LED/LCD sets also .

Some faults causing your set not to work correctly (or at all) *may be caused by (other than power supply board failures and *other than capacitors ), and may be caused from and not limited to other circuit boards,modules , connecting cables ,other components wires and switches or faulty display panels.
further there *may be more than one failed part or assy.

Power supply capacitor failure * may be less common on newer sets
However if you are having the symptoms listed here capacitor failure* may be present
or another component or components on the board may have failed.

Circuit boards or modules other than power supply boards are *usually* replaced due to embedded non serviceable parts further sometimes power supply boards for many of the same reasons can not be repaired and need to be replaced also.

If after you read this thread ,linked threads and maybe watch some linked videos and do not fell comfortable in safely attempting repairs either further self study or the services of a qualified technician would be best. 
AVS members

Many of AVS members are already familiar with the information here.
This is intended to help newbies if you will, or some one who may other wise be able to complete a successful DIY repair with the information provided here
or the folks that are posting or surfing here simply looking for our help .


After helping a few new members with repairs I thought I would post this so we can just point to the thread . I noticed a lot of new posters here looking for some help

Posted in LCD display device area
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491809/most-common-lcd-led-plasma-tv-repair


I have no interests or affiliations to any of the of the re sellers or retailers or their affiliates or
any links or videos mentioned in this or any thread here at AVS they are provided for information purposes only

To read the complete full contents of the original thread I posted
in Display Devices> LCD Flat Panel Section
and find the information ,instructions and linked DIY videos
Please refer to this thread.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1491809/most-common-lcd-led-plasma-tv-repair

For purposes of discussion the repairs linked here
and in the other linked thread pertain to and are mostly limited to power supply boards
common to Plasma /LED/LCD and CCFL/LCD TV sets Monitors and display devices .

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post #2 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 04:44 PM
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While bad capacitors were a problem about three years ago, I can safely say I haven't seen one in the last 6 months. It's relatively uncommon nowadays.
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post #3 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 05:35 PM - Thread Starter
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EDIT : Thats good to know I bought 2 new sets this year biggrin.gif. FWIHR like you say most newer sets are more durable
type electrolytics now.

I had a late 2009 build Dynex set I had to recap the power supply.
maybe they never got message it is a crappy set I've seen some not so old ~2010 LG and Vizio sets for instance that had bad
caps some Elements and other discount brands, fixed another 2010 LG yesterday bad PSU caps.
Hopefully the newer ones are better but they will probably have have other issues .
seems like the issue is less frequent with tier one brands but thats just a guess in my part .
I cant recall seeing a tier on brand lately with that issue either.
Maybe I will edit the thread with something to mention about the newer sets good call.


Lots of newbies have been posting here with older sets maybe ~2- 3 + yrs old or older and some 3rd tier brands just out of warranty
that in at least a few cases ultimately had capacitor problems maybe they didn't get the message either or didn't care
or with contract manufacturing so common now aren't or weren't in complete or any control of the supply chain.
so that's why I posted this thread so we can just point the folks that might want to try a DIY repair to it.

Maybe some day we won't see anymore posts from folks still having psu caps going bad
that would be good if it ever happens .It would be interesting to hear from somebody
at a warranty repair facility and see what the actual trend is.on newer sets especially by brand.

Maybe the move to LED backlighting is taking the load off of PSU's also long as they don't spec them
to low.


It seems strange their are no repair stickies here at AVS for newbies it might be helpful.
AVS may have or at least IMO should have had a sticky here about that years ago .
I'm sure that horse has been beaten before so not much more I can say about that.

I suspect quite a few of these *maybe older sets with' bad caps' are still in service. not to mention
the discount 3rd tier brand sets
who knows what they put in those wouldn't surprise me if some are still using using 'bad caps' if you will

I'm sure like you say at least the first tier brands have done a better job there that's one reason aside from
the Dynex I've never had another 3rd tier brand set and don't plan to some times it takes years
to clean up a global supply chain .

I'll see how my new sets (Toshiba and Samsung) are doing in
two or three years in that respect I'm sure they will be fine.
best regards

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post #4 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 05:55 PM
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No, modern TVs rarely use solid electrolytic capacitors (polymer type.) Those are found on motherboards. Very occasionally they will put them on main boards but that is rare. They still use standard electrolytics on the power boards, but they seem to be more reliable.

Out of over 50 TV repairs (purely as a hobby), I've done less than 5 capacitor replacement jobs.
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post #5 of 25 Old 09-23-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info like you I do it as a hobby long time though started with black and white CRT.
you are right they use aluminum electrolytics

I think I recall now aluminum electrolytics IIRC the issue was something to do with the exact
chemical electrolyte formula used by different manufactures ,and or geographical regions maybe
maybe Japan and China ? and some of the specific electrolyte formulations were causing dielectric
issues maybe ? or something anyway resulting in premature failure .



Thanks for your valuable input.because of that I was able to make some corrections.
so ofc a thumbs up to your both of your replies are in order!
original paragraph as posted below.

Best regards

Edit 4/19/2014

Hires Music formats ..............."Why does it sound like a CD ?" ............. can we make it louder "?
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post #6 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 02:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

No, modern TVs rarely use solid electrolytic capacitors (polymer type.) Those are found on motherboards. Very occasionally they will put them on main boards but that is rare. They still use standard electrolytics on the power boards, but they seem to be more reliable.

Out of over 50 TV repairs (purely as a hobby), I've done less than 5 capacitor replacement jobs.

Thanks I have edited my reply to reflect this correction.

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post #7 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 02:30 AM
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Indeed. I just didn't want to get people's hope up. On the tech forums I frequent, the number of people opening up, say a 2011~2012 Samsung/Panasonic plasma and saying "no bad capacitors so where do I go from here" is extremely common. If it were 2008 or 2007, capacitors would be 90% the problem.
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post #8 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 02:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

Indeed. I just didn't want to get people's hope up. On the tech forums I frequent, the number of people opening up, say a 2011~2012 Samsung/Panasonic plasma and saying "no bad capacitors so where do I go from here" is extremely common. If it were 2008 or 2007, capacitors would be 90% the problem.

Thats good to know especially since my plasma is a Sammie SRSLY I was kind of reluctant to buy it but it had a( bright for a plasma ) + decent picture and good price I've always had Toshiba and Sony for many years with good results I wasn't to much worried about buying the Toshiba .What do you think of Samsung,LG and Vizio ?


Seems like most of the older sets
like you say are the more commonly affected ones . . A lot posters here seem to be having problems with older pre ~2010 and older LG and Vizio followed by the older Samsungs as well
maybe it's because they sell a lot of sets ? Saw one element posting here that has the classic power supply symptoms as well ofc that could be many other things besides a capacitor.


I could well Imagine Panasonic would have been one of the first to correct the problem if they even had one.I haven't run across one but I'm not a repair shop..
Any Panasonic stuff I've owned has been take to the bank reliable.I have some 14 yr old Technics stuff so far bullet proof! I've had Good luck with Sony and Toshiba over the years also

. I've always felt Sony,Panasonic,Toshiba,and Sharp were pretty good and Samsung,LG and Vizio a notch down. I don't know if that is true anymore ? ?? at lest for Samsung *maybe but I don't know for sure on the new stuff

I skipped the RPTV and DLP thing altogether and went straight from CRT (Sony HD FD Trinitron and reg Trinitron ) to Plasma /LCD .actually reading about the Panny plasmas
here caused me to look at the Sammy Plasma and dispelled some misconceptions I had regarding Plasma sets. The Sammie was lot brighter than the equivalent Panny in the store at least , (cheaper also) of course I wasnt looking at the VT /ZT Pannies either,
. I don't think they were out yet ..I'm sure they would have me drooling biggrin.gif The Sony 4K isn't bad but probably can still do better with 2K at least FWIR for now anyway . Then there is OLED I can,t afford . changed over on the computers many years ago.

It seems some of the third tier. Newer discount TV brands are having various issues it seems, doesn't usually sound like caps all the time either ,maybe IC's or imbedded parts maybe even panel issues or other stuff like that? Lots of new member first posts are only because they have broken sets so who knows? some stick around and learn more ,some only want help fixing their sets fine with me .. I came here because I wanted to learn more about HDTV,Plasma,CCFL/LCD ,LED/LCD , and the various formats and standards ..



Best regards

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post #9 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 04:30 AM
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Panasonic have just started using crap caps across their whole range -- includes the 65VT60 etc. Very disappointing!
Samsung and Panasonic may not have bad caps anymore, but they have plenty of other problems!
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post #10 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 07:34 AM
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Crap caps != broken caps.
The capacitors in question are Lelon, Taicon etc. Generally low tier compared to previous Panasonic using their own Panasonic caps, or Rubycon/Nichicon/Chemicon.
Lelon, Taicon have high failure rates BUT none have failed YET hence why they do not have "bad caps" yet do have "crap caps"...
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post #11 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

Panasonic have just started using crap caps across their whole range -- includes the 65VT60 etc. Very disappointing!
Samsung and Panasonic may not have bad caps anymore, but they have plenty of other problems!

Surprising for Panasonic considering they make capacitors not so surprising for Samsung Having problems and maybe LG and Vizio ? .

I wonder how many sets foxconn are making or assembling I know they do some work for Sony some TV's and PS3 ,Xbox for M$ and lots of other stuff for everybody else including 2 of my HP PC's my stuff seems to be OK so far , PC are 2 and 3 years old now SB i5 and OC Phenom II x 4 (this one) still plenty for my needs . but my son went through 3 PS2's , PS3 is 3yrs old so far it's been good makes an excellent Netflix *** and pretty good DNLA streamer as well at least for WMC anyway.

To tell you the truth I bought my Sammy with some trepidation knowing their history of questionable reliability and all it was a good deal NIB clearance at end of model year 2012 too hard to turn down but at least it's working well for now ! How are Toshiba and Sony holding up?

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post #12 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 12:33 PM
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Strangely, Vizio actually have some of the BEST caps on their power supplies, which are usually subcontracted to Delta. The exceptions are their lower end models. Their higher end LED TVs have Sharp panels, too -- pretty nice. Sadly, their main boards are piles of junk -- so many of them need replacing in just a few year's time.

Toshiba: if you avoid their lower end, very good. Lower end, rebadged junk. Same for Sharp. Above 47", Sharp make their own stuff. Below that, you're getting junk. Sony subcontract some stuff to Foxconn, but design almost everything themselves. As do Panasonic.
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post #13 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 01:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I was thinking about upgrading my recently purchased Toshiba 32 " 2nd set to a KDL-50R450A 50" Sony and re purpose Toshiba for second PC monitor in another room . Have some more deferred retirement starting soon so some kind of new toy is order from the first check otherwise it will just go in the bank that's no fun. I don't need a smart set I have a PC w/HDMI in here so it will be on the wifi Lan and Dish TV . any experience with this or similar Sony surprisingly the equivalent Toshiba is more expensive and the reviews are mixed on it. or maybe I should get the next one up the food chain I'm just looking for decent PQ.



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post #14 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 01:36 PM
 
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I wonder how long I have 'til the ZT60's caps begin imploding? 2000 hours?
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post #15 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 01:56 PM
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Probably 30,000~50,000 hours...
Don't worry the SC or SS will kick the bucket before then... Panasonic thin plasmas LOVE to blow their SC and SS boards.
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post #16 of 25 Old 09-24-2013, 09:36 PM
 
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Oh boy, can you give me an estimate on when that might fail? I'm wondering if a 3-year ext. warranty will be enough.
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post #17 of 25 Old 09-25-2013, 12:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Oh boy, can you give me an estimate on when that might fail? I'm wondering if a 3-year ext. warranty will be enough.

Not quite long enough to take advantage of the first Mean time between failure (MTBF) interval
OTOH 3 year extended warranty will likely expire before the first failure of the parts in question

since you asked 

If you watch it 24 hours a day that would be 5.707 years Mean time between failures (MTBF)

If you watch it 12 hours a day that would be 11.415 years Mean time between failures (MTBF)

If you watch it 6 hours a day that would be 22.830 years Mean time between failures (MTBF)......... and so on.


The above calculation for purposes of discussion is limited to the capacitors in question ,as for the rest of the parts .............. hard to say !

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post #18 of 25 Old 09-25-2013, 09:47 AM
 
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Thanks but yes, it's those aforementioned circuit boards I'm more curious about, as they will be even more costly to fix.
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post #19 of 25 Old 09-25-2013, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Thanks but yes, it's those aforementioned circuit boards I'm more curious about, as they will be even more costly to fix.

Actually some of those SC/SS boards are only $30.00 used .at shopjimmy.com (that means the might be cheaper out in the wild on the bay )
keep in mind any board in any set can fail at any time.

I'm sure Panasonic has MTBF estimates for most parts and finished boards
but unless you are testing ~5 yr old product it's difficult to exactly forecast. how it's going to behave in the field over time .
although they can usually get a pretty good idea in most cases.
as a consumer the best you can do is try to spot failure trends hard to do on new product sometimes.
A brand history in general of a type product may show trends across the board
OTOH if they mil spec everything nobody could afford one. .

One thing is Google the set ur looking at and see what folks say. maybe ask tom if he would buy a current Panasonic.
Past models *sometimes are fair predictors of a given sets reliability and just as often not ! .
it *may or not be true* that Plasmas may be *more or less reliable* than same brand or otherLCD/ LED sets that might be an interesting discussion?

Some things like only a failed capacitor ,transistor,diode ,regulator or maybe a resistor on a board is a simple repair. OTOH a fried imbedded chip will require a board replacement in almost all cases that is true for LCD,LED or Plasma.

I had an HD FD Sony trinitron for 10-11 years a power surge (no fault of the set) finally killed it so 3 days later I bought a big Plasma . I also had a 27" std def Trinitron (the ubiquitous black one) it was still working fine at 14 yrs B4 i gave it away. . Anyway I wanted a big screen plasma so that worked out in the end.especially considering the utility eventually paid me almost what I paid for the Sony!!biggrin.gif
ofc it was their power line that fried a neutral took out a couple of other things including a new PC they paid for everything though .
even the surge protectors (have them on everything electronic ) did not work on that ?

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Yikes, those types of stories are one thing that keep the prospect of getting a whole house surge protector (installed at the breaker box) installed. eek.gif

I realize it's a little early to predict lifetimes/failures on the 2013 line, but Tom's recent comments have me a little concerned. And yes, CRTs in decades past were built to last, 2 or 3 decades of use not being uncommon.
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post #21 of 25 Old 09-25-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Yea for$2-$300 + install if you have a lot of valuable electronics it might not be a bad idea *if it works in time * that being the key . UPS back up might be more reliable.
The neutral drop is pretty nasty failure it took out 2 TV's 1 PC + an AVR receiver , oven range control board and some lamps .
Utility paid for everything no questions asked no receipts required nothing they just cut a check for what I listed .
and I didn't even fudge anything eek.gif I figured they would send a claims adjuster or someone out go figure?
But since their crews had to come out and put new service in I guess they knew something went wrong .
The utility crew told me to check everything and that they would cover any damage so I guess they were right in this case.
It must be difficult in lightning country thats unpredictable and would certainly make a good case for whole house lightning protection.

By their nature a good quality CRT set would have to be engineered to be pretty durable because of the high voltages and currents in there
problem with microchips and embedded devices and modern CPU you are getting down to the atomic level during the manufacturing process
it's amazing what they can do now smart phone has more computational ability than all the computers nasa used for the Apollo moon missions .!

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post #22 of 25 Old 09-26-2013, 01:47 AM
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I would not buy a current Panasonic unfortunately. Their older panels are so, so well made, so I would buy one of those, but they're cutting too many costs on the newer panels. I almost picked up a faulty 2011 Panasonic PRO 3D 1080p monitor (TH-50PF30E)... it would have looked SO nice on the wall and a good replacement for my 2008 TH-46PZ80B. But it went for £102.59; my max bid was £100.59. Someone got a bargain, that's for sure.

TBH, LG are looking -really- good. Only a few problems really with their newer TVs; interestingly, the reverse of Panasonic-- older LG plasmas were absolute trash, but the newer ones are really well made (if you avoid the bottom end of the range, of course.) The only problem is, a 2013 LG has the same black level as a 2007 Panasonic. I wish they'd improve that.

A UPS/surge protector will not save most plasma/LCD HDMI inputs. It may stop damage to the power supply but that is a relatively easy thing to repair. HDMI may well be damaged and require main board replacement. Either be prepared to take the loss on the TV or insure/warranty it.
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post #23 of 25 Old 09-26-2013, 02:47 AM
 
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Well, that's depressing. As a former Kuro owner, I couldn't stomach downgrading in the black level department (also well made but not without faults), and now you have me on pins and needles waiting for the other shoe to drop. wink.gif
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post #24 of 25 Old 09-26-2013, 02:54 AM
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Oh, Kuros have so few problems. They are even better than the older Panasonics. Just stick with a good Kuro!

I keep browsing eBay for a faulty PRO-141FD or similar. The only ones I see are "toddler threw toy at screen" or "broken by wii controller"... Ugh, how can people be so careless around such a display? They don't make them any more, so we have to preserve what is left of them.
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post #25 of 25 Old 09-26-2013, 03:00 AM
 
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Yea, too late for me. I outgrew the 50-incher and wasn't interested in the pitfalls of buying used (I'm also in a more rural area, requiring a minimum 4 to 5-hour drive just to demo such a unit). Built solidly for certain.
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