Are any of these plasma's worth the money? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 40 Old 09-30-2013, 04:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so here's the deal. For two years i've had a HD Ready Samsung plasma, then i went for a Panasonic VT30, due to horrible green blob and banding problems i went to a new TV which was another stupid decision, a LED tv. When you go plasma, you never go back, its not a saying but it's true in my book. Last year i deciced to sell the LED and buy the LG 60PA6500 for it. Not a bad price, but at the end of the day... i wasn't satisfied. Now i do have to say that i am not easily satisfied,but when something costs quite some money, i think there's nothing wrong with that. Turns out the black level is far from great, blurring seems to occur a lot more than the VT30 and my older Sammy did and picture quality reallly isn't too great either.

If i'm continuing with my plans. i'll sell this plasma and go for one that is worth the money. The choice is going to be between Samsung and Panasonic, but after the VT30 that received glowing reviews, but i wasn't fond of the picture quality at all (especially in gaming) i am not too sure if i should go for Panasonic. Plus i really want a 60 inch screen or at least 50+. I love this size. Or only 50 if the tv is just insane good.The list would be:

Samsung PS60F5000 - 1044 euros

Samsung PS60F5500 - 1229 euros

Samsung PS60E530 - 1299 euros

Samsung PS51E6500 - 1284 euros

Panasonic TX-P50GT60 - 1319 euros

Panasonic Viera TX-P50VT50 - 1331 euros

Panasonic Viera TX-P55ST60E - 1281

Kinda around 1300 is also what i want to spend on it. Only one of the Panasonic's is above 50 inch, how much better than those 60 inch Samsung's is it, or not at all? All i really want is nice black levels, they dont need to be pitch black, but neither do i want them dark gray like i have now. As little blur as possible and a fine picture quality for gaming.
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post #2 of 40 Old 09-30-2013, 05:54 PM
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I'd go with the 55ST60
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post #3 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply man. Any particular reason why you would go for the Panasonic? smile.gif

I mean...it's not the biggest size and in terms of price the first Samsung is cheaper and bigger. But probably older too.
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post #4 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 03:07 PM
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Just a general preference for Panasonic plasmas, (even though I've never actually owned a Samsung), and it's biggest of your Panansonic options. Plus it's a latest generation set and everyone on these forums seems to think highly of it. I just yesterday got the 65S60, and to my eyes, it's phenomenal. If the ST is better, it must be spectacular. TBH, I think it would be tough to go wrong with any of the options you list - TVs are so good nowadays that any arguments over them amount to nitpicking.
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post #5 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jontyrees View Post

Just a general preference for Panasonic plasmas, (even though I've never actually owned a Samsung), and it's biggest of your Panansonic options. Plus it's a latest generation set and everyone on these forums seems to think highly of it. I just yesterday got the 65S60, and to my eyes, it's phenomenal. If the ST is better, it must be spectacular. TBH, I think it would be tough to go wrong with any of the options you list - TVs are so good nowadays that any arguments over them amount to nitpicking.

jontyrees, how bright and "punchy" is the picture on your 65S60? I am about to buy a 60" plasma for my bedroom, as my current Toshiba 50" plasma TV has cratered on me. I have read several comments in different threads here about the S60 series image being a bit "flat" compared to the ST60 series. I would like to go with the S60 series, but that Toshiba had a nice, bright, contrasty image, which I like, and I would not want to go to a TV with less "punch".

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post #6 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 08:47 PM
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if you are a gamer, I would go with the 50gt60. the st60 has more lag,

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post #7 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 08:50 PM
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I am so agonizing about which Panny to go with. ST, VT or ZT...I know the ZT is the clear cut winner but deciding if it warrants all that extra dough...Uggh!
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post #8 of 40 Old 10-01-2013, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Krazy Train View Post

I am so agonizing about which Panny to go with. ST, VT or ZT...I know the ZT is the clear cut winner but deciding if it warrants all that extra dough...Uggh!

It all comes down to how much you value picture quality... Sound and Vision magazine said the ZT's picture quality is on the same level as the Kuro 141 they had. If that sounds enticing then I'd say go for the best because you'll be filled with doubt with anything other. But you'll still get great picture quality from the VT (some have said identical PQ as the ZT) and the ST (not on the same level as the other 2).
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post #9 of 40 Old 10-02-2013, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

Thanks for the reply man. Any particular reason why you would go for the Panasonic? smile.gif

I mean...it's not the biggest size and in terms of price the first Samsung is cheaper and bigger. But probably older too.

It is probably a better chance the Panny will have less fan noise or buzz - luck of the draw for Samsung is a crap shoot whether or not you get a horrible beehive of a buzzer set

there are 2 other big topics here discussing many horrible Samsung newest series F8500 sets having VERY loud annoying buzzing (my PN60F8500 included)

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post #10 of 40 Old 10-02-2013, 04:36 AM
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...thanks Vic...seeing as this is not something you buy very often, I think I'll go with the ZT @ 65"...
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post #11 of 40 Old 10-09-2013, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dougofthenorth View Post

It is probably a better chance the Panny will have less fan noise or buzz - luck of the draw for Samsung is a crap shoot whether or not you get a horrible beehive of a buzzer set

there are 2 other big topics here discussing many horrible Samsung newest series F8500 sets having VERY loud annoying buzzing (my PN60F8500 included)

Buzzing wouldnt really annoy me much,because when i'm gaming i have my headphones on and those are Astro A40s, i dont hear a thing around me, haha. Same with movies, if i'm alone,i have the headphones on. I dont watch tv. On other forums i keep hearing about the green blob complaint of the Panasonic plasmas and that is exactly one of the big reasons i returned the VT30.
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post #12 of 40 Old 10-09-2013, 07:51 PM
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from my shopping this year, there were only 4 models worth buying
Samsung f8500
Panasonic st60, vt60, zt60 (there was no gt model here)

anything less than those puts you in a position to find fault and want to upgrade again. with all the talk of Panasonic being done plasma, I don't think this is the year to skimp on anything. you may not have a second chance to get it right...

as far as buzzing goes... it's just my observation but it appears to be more about the owner than the tv. that is, ppl who have heard and complained about buzzing in the past are the ones that will complain about it with new models as well. either due to exceptional hearing, some weird acoustics in their set up, altitude, or maybe even just them trying too hard to hear it in the first place. I just don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of owners can never hear buzzing during normal use, and then a handful of ppl have returned 5 or more plasmas and always end up with 'buzzers'. so, if your previous plasmas didn't bother you, it's pretty unlikely the news ones will.

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post #13 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Some people say that nowadays you cant really go wrong with a tv anymore if it's Samsung or Panasonic, so if that's true..any of those would be fine. I have had a Samsung plasma for years a long time ago and was very happy with it, never any problems. So i'm definitely aiming at Sammy. The problem is, i'can't test any of these tv's because no store in my town has them. It's all on webshops. I DO need to know before buying if the PQ and black levels are better than my current LG PA6500. It's a risk if i just go with any of the 60 inch Sammies. I also can't really find reviews for most of those cheaper 60 inch Sammies, so i wont know about the technical details and how games look on it. If a set is more recent than the other, it isn't necessarily always the better one, right?
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post #14 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

Some people say that nowadays you cant really go wrong with a tv anymore if it's Samsung or Panasonic, so if that's true..any of those would be fine. I have had a Samsung plasma for years a long time ago and was very happy with it, never any problems. So i'm definitely aiming at Sammy. The problem is, i'can't test any of these tv's because no store in my town has them. It's all on webshops. I DO need to know before buying if the PQ and black levels are better than my current LG PA6500. It's a risk if i just go with any of the 60 inch Sammies. I also can't really find reviews for most of those cheaper 60 inch Sammies, so i wont know about the technical details and how games look on it. If a set is more recent than the other, it isn't necessarily always the better one, right?

a cheap tv is made cheaply. while i wouldn't be concerned about putting a cheap tv in a bar, or the kitchen, or someplace where i don't really care what it looks like, there's no way i'm going to put a cheap tv in my media/theatre room.

i'd rather spend 3grand well, then waste 1500

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post #15 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 12:23 PM
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Before plunging for a upgrade, try the black tweak for LG plasmas. It worked really well for me. Sure, it still ain't Samsung or Panasonic, but still a vast improvement over the stock.

If you're going with Samsung, do not ever settle with small sizes. With the exception of the F8500, all Samsung plasmas have better blacks on 60 inch and up models. So, in theory, a 60 inch E550 will actually outperform 51 inch E8000 simply because the MLL gets so much better.Sure, the E8000 still boasts superior processing and 3D quality, but its less than stellar black was really holding it back.

But really, if you value black levels, Panasonic's the best option. Even the last year's U50 outperforms Samsung E8000/F5500 with its next generation panel. The S60 is far from being a crap.

I still prefer the F8500 over the VT60/ZT60, but Panny owns value segment hands down. Any of their offerings will embarass high-end LCDs any day.
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post #16 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Before plunging for a upgrade, try the black tweak for LG plasmas. It worked really well for me. Sure, it still ain't Samsung or Panasonic, but still a vast improvement over the stock.

If you're going with Samsung, do not ever settle with small sizes. With the exception of the F8500, all Samsung plasmas have better blacks on 60 inch and up models. So, in theory, a 60 inch E550 will actually outperform 51 inch E8000 simply because the MLL gets so much better.Sure, the E8000 still boasts superior processing and 3D quality, but its less than stellar black was really holding it back.

But really, if you value black levels, Panasonic's the best option. Even the last year's U50 outperforms Samsung E8000/F5500 with its next generation panel. The S60 is far from being a crap.

I still prefer the F8500 over the VT60/ZT60, but Panny owns value segment hands down. Any of their offerings will embarass high-end LCDs any day.

I definitely am not going smaller than 51, and I actually am very reluctant to go smaller than 60 anyway, I have 60 inch now and I love that size. The E550 is listed on sites in my country but it isn't for sale anywhere.The Sammies that are still for sale here are:


PS60F5000
PS60F5500
PS60E530

And these are reasonably priced too.

How do these fare? I mean the LG PA6500 isn't a 'state of the art' plasma tv, so the chances of getting a lesser tv with any of these Sammies seems slim.

Oh and tweak for black levels, how would that work? smile.gif

As for Panasonic. After my problems with the VT30 (which was a nightmare cause neither Panasonic or the dealer was very helping with me) I am alittle afraid to go wrong again,especially in terms of that horrible green blob.
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post #17 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 04:53 PM
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Samsung has buzzers, LG has the worst IR, you're really not safe whichever way you go, it's all a luck of a draw. My LG never had any IR btw. =)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372479/lg-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks

This thread details the process of black LG plasma tweak for better black.

As for the Sammies, both E530 and F5300 are pentile based,(remember Samsung Galaxy OLED? lol) so they are not as pixel perfect as E500 and F5500. It doesn't really bother me as long as I don't get too close, but you may be more sensitive to this issue.

...I am not familiar with F5000 though. We don't have Samsung plasmas with that model number in North America. Probably F5300 in a different name? In that case, I would recommend the F5500 instead. There's no improvement from the E series to F5xxx series panel wise, they both share the same panel, so pick whichever you like more. (Samsung F8500 is the only new guy in town)
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post #18 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 06:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Samsung has buzzers, LG has the worst IR, you're really not safe whichever way you go, it's all a luck of a draw. My LG never had any IR btw. =)

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1372479/lg-plasma-panel-tweaks-for-better-blacks

This thread details the process of black LG plasma tweak for better black.

As for the Sammies, both E530 and F5300 are pentile based,(remember Samsung Galaxy OLED? lol) so they are not as pixel perfect as E500 and F5500. It doesn't really bother me as long as I don't get too close, but you may be more sensitive to this issue.

...I am not familiar with F5000 though. We don't have Samsung plasmas with that model number in North America. Probably F5300 in a different name? In that case, I would recommend the F5500 instead. There's no improvement from the E series to F5xxx series panel wise, they both share the same panel, so pick whichever you like more. (Samsung F8500 is the only new guy in town)

Thanks man. Well the F5500 is even cheaper in price compared to the E530, so that's quite a plus too. smile.gif

I took a look at that thread. I don't think i'm gonna be messing with that.

hmmm..a review on Cnet says this about the F5500
Quote:
Another slight issue is that this 60-inch version uses a pentile pixel structure, unlike most other TVs, (including the other screen sizes that the F5500 is available in) which use a striped layout for the red, green and blue subpixels that create each pixel on the screen. The pentile pixel structure uses fewer overall subpixels, so it's a cheaper technology to use for building displays, hence this screen's low price tag.

Sitting at a normal viewing distance it's not quite as sharp-looking as a plasma with a standard pixel layout, but the difference is very slight. There are times when onscreen text can look less defined and blocks of colour sometimes look 'noisy' as you can see dithering created by the subpixels, but for the most part, from a normal viewing distance, it's not a huge issue.

http://reviews.cnet.co.uk/tvs/samsung-ps60f5500-review-50012050/

And Expertreviews:
Quote:
Fantastic smart TV content, but this plasma TV’s picture quality is only good in the dark

So far the F5500 has all the makings of a great TV, but it revealed its more budget leanings when we started adjusting the picture. There are just three picture modes available (standard, dynamic and cinema) and its contrast and black levels left quite a lot to be desired when we watched our Blu-Ray test footage with the lights were on. Blacks were positively yellow and we could barely see anything at all during our reference night scene unless we switched the lights off. Even setting its black optimiser setting to bright room and black tone to darkest failed to make any significant changes to deepen the black levels.

As a result, we’d definitely recommend watching films in the dark, as colours appeared much richer here and the contrast and black levels reaped the benefits from the lack of ambient light.

This has me worried:
Quote:
One feature that was sorely missing, though, was any kind of frame interpolation. This was particularly disappointing, as this meant fast-paced action sequences often stuttered quite badly as the camera panned across the screen. Even slow pans were quite jerky at times, which puts the F5500 at a significant disadvantage compared to other £700 TVs that do have this feature.

I hate to find out that games start to stutter as well, whereas I never had that with my current tv. If its only movies I don't mind it much.

And this in another review:
Quote:
Game Mode – Almost there with Input Lag

Plasma TVs are usually recommended as gaming TVs, but Samsung's plasmas has a hard time with input lag. Even with the Game Mode enabled, our tests showed input lag at anywhere between 70 and 100ms on the PN60F5500. That's a little bit more than the target levels. It is important to note that I didn't think it was terrible. Okami HD on the Playstation 3 certainly wasn't unbearable, I notice the lag. Gamers who mainly play First Person Shooters will probably notice it a good deal more. A dedicated gaming TV should probably be found elsewhere. The Game Mode can be found here in the menus: System > General > Game Mode.

I wish I knew what the input lag on my set was, so that I know if it will be worse than now or not.
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post #19 of 40 Old 10-10-2013, 11:16 PM
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May I know which LG model do you currently own? Your model may be in the same year family as mine did. Mine was PT550. I measured its input lag by performing a camera test and I got 57ms in game mode.

Don't worry about the F5500 though. Displaylag.com lists it having 37ms using Leo Bodnar input lag tester, which is equivalent to 19~20ms in camera test term, which is seriously good.

Too bad about the pentile though. I never knew there were F5500s that use pentile.
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post #20 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 06:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

May I know which LG model do you currently own? Your model may be in the same year family as mine did. Mine was PT550. I measured its input lag by performing a camera test and I got 57ms in game mode.

Don't worry about the F5500 though. Displaylag.com lists it having 37ms using Leo Bodnar input lag tester, which is equivalent to 19~20ms in camera test term, which is seriously good.

Too bad about the pentile though. I never knew there were F5500s that use pentile.

Hey man,

It's the 60PA6500

I've read on another forum in the F5500 owners thread from several gamers that the input lag indeed really isn't bad at all. Picture quality may not be to Panasonic's high end sets, but you do pay a whole lot more for that too. One moderator even there said he has had Panasonics and to be honest he always preferred the PQ of Samsung TV's. I can only speak for VT30 and I agree, I really wasn't that impressed by the PQ at all. But what about frame interpolation, isn't that a big deal?
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post #21 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

Before plunging for a upgrade, try the black tweak for LG plasmas. It worked really well for me. Sure, it still ain't Samsung or Panasonic, but still a vast improvement over the stock.

If you're going with Samsung, do not ever settle with small sizes. With the exception of the F8500, all Samsung plasmas have better blacks on 60 inch and up models. So, in theory, a 60 inch E550 will actually outperform 51 inch E8000 simply because the MLL gets so much better.Sure, the E8000 still boasts superior processing and 3D quality, but its less than stellar black was really holding it back.

But really, if you value black levels, Panasonic's the best option. Even the last year's U50 outperforms Samsung E8000/F5500 with its next generation panel. The S60 is far from being a crap.

I still prefer the F8500 over the VT60/ZT60, but Panny owns value segment hands down. Any of their offerings will embarass high-end LCDs any day.

if you want black, shop for the 4 i mentioned earlier: st60, vt60, zt60, f8500. every one of them has better blacks and contrast than everything else on the market, and every plasma produced since the kuros

now is not the time to mess around with plasma. buy a tv you'll be happy with until OLED is affordable, because you probably won't get a chance to buy a plasma 4yrs from now frown.gif

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post #22 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

Hey man,

It's the 60PA6500

I've read on another forum in the F5500 owners thread from several gamers that the input lag indeed really isn't bad at all. Picture quality may not be to Panasonic's high end sets, but you do pay a whole lot more for that too. One moderator even there said he has had Panasonics and to be honest he always preferred the PQ of Samsung TV's. I can only speak for VT30 and I agree, I really wasn't that impressed by the PQ at all. But what about frame interpolation, isn't that a big deal?

frame interpolation is a band-aid fix to a problem good plasmas don't have. most of the time, motion blur is caused by the source. when the display tries to fix the source it makes it look really bad anyway. feed it a good source(bluray) and you'll get what the director intended to be seen.

for comparison purposes, the motion on my f8500 is just as good/smooth as that on my d630 with the maximum amount of dejudder and FI i can stand before the processing makes it unwatchable.

unless you've become accustomed to watching a tv with FI maxed out, it's not something i would consider a deal breaker on a plasma

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post #23 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

frame interpolation is a band-aid fix to a problem good plasmas don't have. most of the time, motion blur is caused by the source. when the display tries to fix the source it makes it look really bad anyway. feed it a good source(bluray) and you'll get what the director intended to be seen.

for comparison purposes, the motion on my f8500 is just as good/smooth as that on my d630 with the maximum amount of dejudder and FI i can stand before the processing makes it unwatchable.

unless you've become accustomed to watching a tv with FI maxed out, it's not something i would consider a deal breaker on a plasma

So I should be good when it comes to gaming too? It's somewhat gonna be a risk for me, cause none of these plasma's are in the stores here, so I can't go check them out. I hope when I eventually decide to make the purchase that the store allows me to return it if it turns out to be a disappointment. But I doubt it.
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post #24 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

So I should be good when it comes to gaming too? It's somewhat gonna be a risk for me, cause none of these plasma's are in the stores here, so I can't go check them out. I hope when I eventually decide to make the purchase that the store allows me to return it if it turns out to be a disappointment. But I doubt it.

do you currently use any frame interpolation on any of your displays? do you like the look of lcds with the frame interpolation turned up to max?

i only ask these questions because i HATE frame interpolation. i find it completely unwatchable when it's on.

i've never done any gaming on an LCD, only a couple of plasmas and crt's back in the day. so maybe i don't know what your referring to, but i definitely don't have any issues with motion while gaming.

i personally would say you shouldn't have any problems with a lack of frame interpolation, but i don't know if you like FI or not, and i'm not going to offer you a refund if you do tongue.gif

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post #25 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

do you currently use any frame interpolation on any of your displays? do you like the look of lcds with the frame interpolation turned up to max?

i only ask these questions because i HATE frame interpolation. i find it completely unwatchable when it's on.

i've never done any gaming on an LCD, only a couple of plasmas and crt's back in the day. so maybe i don't know what your referring to, but i definitely don't have any issues with motion while gaming.

i personally would say you shouldn't have any problems with a lack of frame interpolation, but i don't know if you like FI or not, and i'm not going to offer you a refund if you do tongue.gif

I have no idea if my current LG plasma has FI. I've only had one LED, a Toshiba WL 536 i believe it was, but gaming was impossible due to the ridiculous smearing/blurring effect, probably called motion resolution, even in games that had 60fps. But as long as there are no problems with motion, thats great. I saw some people on AVForums.com complaining about juddering in GTA V, but really...the fps is far from perfect in that game, especially on a 60 inch you are going to see that more easily. I;ve checked the website displaylag.com and my current LG has 56ms, and the Sammy has like 32 or so? The smaller the amount the better, right? smile.gif
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post #26 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 04:24 PM
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The reviews you mentioned are only referring to the judder in movies, which can be problematic for some plasmas that only support 60hz. Samsung has the Cinema Smooth feature that features 72hz refresh rate to combat judder. Ditto for Panasonic VT60 and ZT60.

Games are not affected by this issue. They either have 30 fps or 60 fps, which any plasmas can support. Yes, the 30 fps games will suffer on plasmas (and OLEDs) because of judder, but it's still superior to the LCDs when it comes to the motion. I've seen Samsung E530/E550/E8000/F5300/F5500 countless times and there are no motion performance issues on those TVs other than judders introduced from the 3:2 pulldown on movie contents, again, a non-issue for games. So, plasmas don't need motion interpolation on games!

I don't know why you don't think highly of the VT30 though, I personally like it very much. But, I understand there are some people that prefer a Samsung style picture over a Panny's. Samsungs are generally clean looking, they usually have less dithering artifacts than the Pannys (The VT60/ZT60 are the only exceptions. They are dead clean) I had a chance to compare the F5500 and the S60 side by side, and while the S60 had better black, the F5500 were a bit cleaner.
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post #27 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 04:26 PM
 
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The ZT60 (and by extension the VT6) has dithering also actually. Not something you're going to typically notice from the typical seating distance.
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post #28 of 40 Old 10-11-2013, 05:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by KOF View Post

The reviews you mentioned are only referring to the judder in movies, which can be problematic for some plasmas that only support 60hz. Samsung has the Cinema Smooth feature that features 72hz refresh rate to combat judder. Ditto for Panasonic VT60 and ZT60.

Games are not affected by this issue. They either have 30 fps or 60 fps, which any plasmas can support. Yes, the 30 fps games will suffer on plasmas (and OLEDs) because of judder, but it's still superior to the LCDs when it comes to the motion. I've seen Samsung E530/E550/E8000/F5300/F5500 countless times and there are no motion performance issues on those TVs other than judders introduced from the 3:2 pulldown on movie contents, again, a non-issue for games. So, plasmas don't need motion interpolation on games!

I don't know why you don't think highly of the VT30 though, I personally like it very much. But, I understand there are some people that prefer a Samsung style picture over a Panny's. Samsungs are generally clean looking, they usually have less dithering artifacts than the Pannys (The VT60/ZT60 are the only exceptions. They are dead clean) I had a chance to compare the F5500 and the S60 side by side, and while the S60 had better black, the F5500 were a bit cleaner.

I think that is exactly what I meant with the pq on the VT30, dithering. I remember playing all my games on it, testing them out and never was very impressed. Then I bought that Toshiba LED and solely pq wise it looked amazing, but when the blurring/judder came in...it was destroyed. I then bought this LG Plasma and games did look better on it than the VT30 to me. Combine that with the green blob faults my set had and a long long time of waiting before they finally helped me out and gave me my money back. Nice explanation about no motion performance issues. The judder is indeed always the games when it's on a plasma, I've seen games like COD and RAGE and oh my I love how smooth that is. If only all console games could be 60fps.
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post #29 of 40 Old 10-12-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

if you want black, shop for the 4 i mentioned earlier: st60, vt60, zt60, f8500. every one of them has better blacks and contrast than everything else on the market, and every plasma produced since the kuros

now is not the time to mess around with plasma. buy a tv you'll be happy with until OLED is affordable, because you probably won't get a chance to buy a plasma 4yrs from now frown.gif

Don't forget that the OP is in Europe. I still think the best bang for buck set for him is the GT60 that we do not get in NA.

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post #30 of 40 Old 10-12-2013, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Moonwalker1982 View Post

I think that is exactly what I meant with the pq on the VT30, dithering. I remember playing all my games on it, testing them out and never was very impressed. Then I bought that Toshiba LED and solely pq wise it looked amazing, but when the blurring/judder came in...it was destroyed. I then bought this LG Plasma and games did look better on it than the VT30 to me. Combine that with the green blob faults my set had and a long long time of waiting before they finally helped me out and gave me my money back. Nice explanation about no motion performance issues. The judder is indeed always the games when it's on a plasma, I've seen games like COD and RAGE and oh my I love how smooth that is. If only all console games could be 60fps.

you're starting to make me think a Samsung f8500 is the perfect tv for you. it's very close to LED looking with static images, but maintains the plasma advantages of uniform backlighting and good motion. it's very much a mix of the benefits of LED and plasma in one display.

as for the FI, chances are if your TV had it, you'd know. it's a setting, something that can be turned on/off. not many plasmas have had any kind of FI because they haven't really needed them. technically speaking, they still don't, but some ppl have gotten used to the artificial look of LED's with FI and now they are asking for the same processing on the plasmas. personally, I find the FI on my f8500 totally unuseable. it's way too aggressive on the lowest settings and doesn't offer a separate control for de-judder. the d630 LCD I have in my bedroom actually makes good use of the processing. I think I have the de-judder at a setting of 2(out of 10 I think) and it's just enough to give me plasma like motion without making everything look artificial(I actually see everything like it's in fast forward when FI is turned on too high). I may have used some de-judder processing on the f8500 if it was available. still I don't think it's fair to say this is an advantage to LED's, since they are using it to stay even with the plasma's native motion processing

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