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jontyrees's Avatar jontyrees
04:48 PM Liked: 38
post #91 of 222
10-29-2013 | Posts: 559
Joined: Apr 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Was just at Best Buy ....they're gonna ban me soon LOL

Anyway ...they have the 515300 above the s60 50' ....and I stood there for 20 mins there's almost zero difference - I honestly thought same TV no doubt ....so close ....

The ST60 has a little more pop but not 500-700 worth no way ....

the 60 5300 is definitely penTILE But only at 3 inches away is it noticeable ...it's a fantastic picture ...

Now ...call me crazy but the F8000 Samny Plasma did NOT look as good as the 605300 -- I even walked away for a bit check out some games & came back and no BS that 8000 DID NOT look any better .

Dilemma

If you don't see much difference, get the cheaper one
handfootya's Avatar handfootya
06:07 AM Liked: 10
post #92 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 2
Joined: Oct 2013

i agree with you,Samsung a far better peak brightness & as good or better blacks plus better color spacing it, thanks

qhWv


mailiang's Avatar mailiang
09:58 AM Liked: 360
post #93 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by handfootya View Post

i agree with you,Samsung a far better peak brightness & as good or better blacks plus better color spacing it, thanks
qhWv

I have to respectfully disagree, (and so do most of reviews I've read). I've viewed both these TV's side by side after setting them up in the cinema/movie modes. The S60 has better blacks, higher contrast and more accurate color gamut. Also, although it's peak brightness measurements are higher, regardless of how I tweaked the brightness and contrast, I had to increase the cell light on the 5300 to 50%, (0 is default) to get it as bright as the S60 with it's panel brightness set to low. However, IMO, the 5300 is still an excellent value and a very good set.


Ian
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
12:04 PM Liked: 28
post #94 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 831
Joined: May 2006
Not according to Wiley on plasma buying guide .
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
01:07 PM Liked: 360
post #95 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Not according to Wiley on plasma buying guide .
I've read their reviews which are very subjective and offer very little data to support their critiques. Besides, I trust what I can see. wink.gif


Ian
Kurtangletn's Avatar Kurtangletn
01:16 PM Liked: 15
post #96 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 258
Joined: Feb 2008
In your experience is the S60 less reflective than the F5300?
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
01:22 PM Liked: 360
post #97 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

In your experience is the S60 less reflective than the F5300?

I deleted the moron comment, and added some specificity. biggrin.gif No. They are both just as reflective.


Ian
Kurtangletn's Avatar Kurtangletn
01:53 PM Liked: 15
post #98 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 258
Joined: Feb 2008
Haha, understandable, I unquoted!

Do you also have any opinion on www.rtings.com ? I like the way the do comparisons with other models but occasionally I bat my eyebrow at some specs.. they rated the ST60's input lag at about half any other outlet I've seen..

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/panasonic/s60

In their overview of the S60 they gave it pretty poor ratings for motion, did you notice the F5300 being better at motion?
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
02:21 PM Liked: 360
post #99 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
Joined: Jan 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Haha, understandable, I unquoted!

Do you also have any opinion on www.rtings.com ? I like the way the do comparisons with other models but occasionally I bat my eyebrow at some specs.. they rated the ST60's input lag at about half any other outlet I've seen..

http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/panasonic/s60

In their overview of the S60 they gave it pretty poor ratings for motion, did you notice the F5300 being better at motion?

Sorry, but since I don't game, it wasn't relevant to me when viewing these TV's. As far as Review.com is concerned, as with many reviews, I pay more attention to the measurements (in the science section) then the ratings, which don't always make sense to me. One of their staff writers, Lee Neikirk is an ISF certified calibrator and I usually take his critiques more seriously.


Ian
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
02:32 PM Liked: 28
post #100 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 831
Joined: May 2006
Reviewed.com Has the 5300 a full point higher than the s60 and give it one of best TV's you can buy.


The S60 has smart features and is an 7.0
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
03:56 PM Liked: 360
post #101 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Reviewed.com Has the 5300 a full point higher than the s60 and give it one of best TV's you can buy.


The S60 has smart features and is an 7.0

Depends on who's doing the review. From my correspondence with Lee:


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Ian..... wrote :
Quote:
Lee:
Just one last question. Since your colleague ranked the Samsung 5300 a point higher then the S60, which set would YOU prefer? Thanks.

Ian

From Lee Neikirk lneikirk@reviewed.com Thu, Oct 24, 2013 9:04 am:

Quote:
Hi Ian,

I'd prefer the S60 due to its superior black level/contrast ratio and Panasonic's "Pro settings" for calibration and variable lighting adjustment. But mostly, the black level is what does it for me. If I'm going to buy a plasma, I want the lowest MLL possible.

Lee


This is why I don't just rely on subjective reviews and rankings, but also consider the measurements. If you prefer the 5300, buy it. Like I posted before, it's a great set for the money.



Ian wink.gif
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
04:21 PM Liked: 28
post #102 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 831
Joined: May 2006
The Tests don't lie the 5300 blows it away in brightness terms ....
Vic12345's Avatar Vic12345
04:34 PM Liked: 26
post #103 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 783
Joined: Mar 2012
im sure there's more to it than just lines of resolution for motion,but Ive seen a low budget lg with 600 lines I think it is, and samsung 700 lines and I could see the samsung was a little bit more clear motion.there's also the green outlining/ghosting thing with motion which samsung scores well on.

Thanks for the site that rates motion.I've looked forever trying too find a site that rates motion.
mailiang's Avatar mailiang
06:54 PM Liked: 360
post #104 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 6,902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

The Tests don't lie the 5300 blows it away in brightness terms ....


Keep in mind, that the S60 has three different panel brightness levels and all the tests were done on low. Besides, I know what my eyes have seen after adjusting both sets equally. Enjoy your new Sammy!


Ian
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar PlasmaPZ80U
07:55 PM Liked: 208
post #105 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 7,326
Joined: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Keep in mind, that the S60 has three different panel brightness levels and all the tests were done on low. Besides, I know what my eyes have seen after adjusting both sets equally. Enjoy your new Sammy!


Ian

I get about 11 fL more light output from Mid vs. Low (High is no brighter than Mid, however).
tuleyoil's Avatar tuleyoil
08:32 PM Liked: 10
post #106 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 11
Joined: Oct 2013
I think this set should easily best your older set in contrast ratio at least
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
09:17 PM Liked: 28
post #107 of 222
10-30-2013 | Posts: 831
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

I get about 11 fL more light output from Mid vs. Low (High is no brighter than Mid, however).
do you find the s60 to be dim? some have said it is?
felonyr301's Avatar felonyr301
02:20 AM Liked: 15
post #108 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 919
Joined: Apr 2008
Reading more about the pentile display advantages overall as in the technology not on this TV specific I keep wondering if the 60" pentile is also brighter than the other plasmas with RGB?

Comparing power usage with other RGB sets and reading on pentile being more power efficient at the same brightness as the RGB set also leads me to believe the other advantage which was touted to also be brighter than a similar RGB set if using the same power usage as the RGB set.

Has anyone noticed? Or even better read the light output between the pentile plasma vs RGB plasma set? Or if the ABL is less on the pentile display since the power usage is lower?

Just wondering on all this...

Btw I sent the displaylag website guy an email on why the f5300 has 9-10ms more input lag the f5500 when they should be same panel without 3D and smart TV capabilities. If anything the f5300 in general should be lower input lag not higher just on not having to deal with smart TV.

Gaming on this set should be no problem as long as you use special PC mode or Game Mode and set the input devices for 1080p mode.
will7046's Avatar will7046
08:55 AM Liked: 32
post #109 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 178
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mailiang View Post

Depends on who's doing the review. From my correspondence with Lee:


On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:47 AM, Ian..... wrote :


From Lee Neikirk lneikirk@reviewed.com Thu, Oct 24, 2013 9:04 am:
This is why I don't just rely on subjective reviews and rankings, but also consider the measurements. If you prefer the 5300, buy it. Like I posted before, it's a great set for the money.



Ian wink.gif

I have to take issue with the calibration comment. The 5300 surpasses the S60 in this matter, as it has both 2pt and 10pt greycscale, Gamma adjustment (not multipoint, but it was relatively flat) and a full CMS (Primary and Secondary).

According to the CNET review, the S60 only has 2pt greyscale and a CMS for the Primary colors only. I'm assuming it has some gamma adjustment as well.
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar PlasmaPZ80U
10:17 AM Liked: 208
post #110 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 7,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

do you find the s60 to be dim? some have said it is?

no, but to be fair my room is dim during the day and dark at night

I also use the full 50 fL or so of light output the set has to offer
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar PlasmaPZ80U
10:19 AM Liked: 208
post #111 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 7,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

I have to take issue with the calibration comment. The 5300 surpasses the S60 in this matter, as it has both 2pt and 10pt greycscale, Gamma adjustment (not multipoint, but it was relatively flat) and a full CMS (Primary and Secondary).

According to the CNET review, the S60 only has 2pt greyscale and a CMS for the Primary colors only. I'm assuming it has some gamma adjustment as well.

more calibration controls doesn't always mean a better calibration, especially if the display with fewer controls starts out more accurate before any calibration is done (Cinema mode defaults on the S60)
will7046's Avatar will7046
12:10 PM Liked: 32
post #112 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

more calibration controls doesn't always mean a better calibration, especially if the display with fewer controls starts out more accurate before any calibration is done (Cinema mode defaults on the S60)

True, but it in this case the 5300 does calibrate quite nicely. I've done three of them now, and had great results with each one.

Out of the box movie mode was not horrible either from what I recall, not too different from some default Panasonic Cinema modes that I have encountered, such as my GT50 or my previous ST30 that I owned.
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
12:36 PM Liked: 28
post #113 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 831
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Will have you seen an S60 to compare ?
will7046's Avatar will7046
01:30 PM Liked: 32
post #114 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 178
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair View Post

Will have you seen an S60 to compare ?

Only in the store and that's not a great place to compare sets.
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar PlasmaPZ80U
05:13 PM Liked: 208
post #115 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 7,326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will7046 View Post

True, but it in this case the 5300 does calibrate quite nicely. I've done three of them now, and had great results with each one.

Out of the box movie mode was not horrible either from what I recall, not too different from some default Panasonic Cinema modes that I have encountered, such as my GT50 or my previous ST30 that I owned.

my S60 calibrates great... if anything, the only adjustment it could benefit from is 10-pt gamma (since near black gamma is a bit on the bright side... though some prefer it that way)

the gamut on mine is basically perfect with just small changes to color/tint (no need to use the partial 3D CMS)
aman74's Avatar aman74
09:13 PM Liked: 10
post #116 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 216
Joined: Feb 2006
Man, now I'm really confused. I just picked up the Panny S64, which is the S60 with an AR filter. I got the 50" for 599, but then I see this Panny 60" for only 100 more. So some questions:

-input lag on the S64 is said to be good, not very good for this Sammy....is it a big issue in practice? I like to game, but I'm not a hardcore online twitch gamer.

-I heard the S64 AR filter does work as it's the same as the ST60, but people seem to be saying it's not any better than this Sammy without the filter. The filter was one of the main reasons I got the Panny as it's almost an ST60 then, but with better lag.

-Some of the first couple posts here mentioned the screen lightening or darkening, "floating blacks"...does this bother people? I don't think the Panny has that issue and it seems it could be a deal-breaker. My friends older Panny does it, but it's not often and doesn't bother me much, but if it were frequent it would be a no go for me.

-Overall quality seems to go to the Panny, but by how much?

-Pentile screen an issue?

If these differences are minor, 60" seems to trump 50", but now I really don't know what to do. I bought that Panny tonight, but actually pick it up tomorrow and could change my mind. I think I got a free BJ's membership in the mail, it's a 90 trial I think.
RicFlair's Avatar RicFlair
09:19 PM Liked: 28
post #117 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 831
Joined: May 2006
It is very frustrating ....

The 60F5300 looks fantastic to me ...thought it's plane jane ....but it's $699 and all reviews say it's a GREAT picture in light controlled room and has great blacks & colors when calibrated .....

it is penTile though - I haven't noticed anything less than a great PQ but Urga a poster here said in a post that the PenTile isn't a true picture? or slab or something like that as in it's projecting through artifacting...way over my head - but i think he means it's a false picture? as in not full 1080p???
felonyr301's Avatar felonyr301
11:27 PM Liked: 15
post #118 of 222
10-31-2013 | Posts: 919
Joined: Apr 2008
Screw the naysayers the point of pentile is to maximize efficiency and allow it to be brighter and more energy efficient and other advantages if you look it up.

It is based around on how our eyes look at stuff and what it perceives. As you seen you don't notice the difference from pentile to regular when your sitting where you should be from a 60". I sit close to TVs gaming wise and I did't see any difference even at 2 feet and I sure as hell will not be watching any 60" plasma at 2 feet away.

If either you talk yourself in seeing it look worse from normal seating distance then it is either mentally from everyone saying it is different or you are the rare person who gets annoyed by it but I'm pretty sure you probably get annoyed by other stuff as well vision wise.

In the end of the day it is up to the individual to decide for themselves on the TV that is right for them.
aman74's Avatar aman74
12:53 AM Liked: 10
post #119 of 222
11-01-2013 | Posts: 216
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurtangletn View Post

Sorry I guess I missed the part where you had first hand experience..

Well that sucks.. I was hoping this was sort of the Samsung equivalent of the S64.

It's really annoying how anti-glare filters are kept off the entry level models. Maybe Plasma's would be more popular if they had anti-reflective filters, after all I'm guessing most LCD sales are around entry level anyway...

What I can tell you is my PN50C680 is not very reflective at all.. it does have the Ultra Clear Panel.. but I'm not sure what exactly it has (or if Samsung even named it) that gives it such anti-reflective properties.. the F5300 (and I'd guess S60) are ridiculous. They are basically mirrors, even in moderate light they get washed out..

I'm not in a situation where I can (or want) to close off all external light and turn every light off..

I'd even consider stretching my budget to something like the ST60 but that has terrible input lag, so I may end up having to go for an LCD... sigh.

Well, someone above you even pointed out that their ST60 isn't much better than the S60. This kinda surprises me as most people say it helps significantly. That led me to get the S64, but I'm not sure how much it helps.

I'm really at a loss as to what to do and I need to decide by tomorrow. 60 inches for 700 bucks is hard to beat. It sound like 47ms of lag isn't that big of a deal either?

What about the Cinema Smooth feature? Does this really do 24p properly, despite what the reviews say about the tv? Someone mentioned they may not have turned it on for the review as it introduces artifacts, so I assume it's not without it's flaws...does it give the Soap Opera Effect? If so, I'd just be running at 60p like I'd do with the S64.

I've seen mention that the PQ of the Panny is better, but it doesn't sound significantly better. Then there's the Pentile screen issue....so hard to decide and most of these decisions can't be made by looking at them in store.
will7046's Avatar will7046
07:56 AM Liked: 32
post #120 of 222
11-01-2013 | Posts: 178
Joined: Feb 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by aman74 View Post


What about the Cinema Smooth feature? Does this really do 24p properly, despite what the reviews say about the tv? Someone mentioned they may not have turned it on for the review as it introduces artifacts, so I assume it's not without it's flaws...does it give the Soap Opera Effect? If so, I'd just be running at 60p like I'd do with the S64.

Cinema smooth feature on the 5300 seems to work fine to me, I tested it the same way that CNET does, with the air craft carrier fly over panning scene in I Am Legend. WIth Cinema Smooth off, it was much choppier, and with it on it had the smoother look of film.

This TV does not have any form of Soap Opera Effect
Tags: Panasonic 60 Inch Plasma Hdtv Tc P60s60 , Samsung Pn60f5300 60 Inch 1080p 600hz Plasma Hdtv , Samsung Pn50c680 50 Inch 1080p Plasma 3d Hdtv

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